Oil cooler shopping

[fund razor]

Looking for 2 oil coolers for NA big blocks, probably 3 x 18. I have seen a few out there at places like Teague for about 300 bucks. Anybody know of a deal or something that they have had good luck with?

[Chris]

http://www.rexmar.com/page275.html

The dual chambered one's are nice. If you're running separate collers for the transmissions, you can use one single chamber on one engine and a dual on the other for the power steering.

Don't forget- you NEED an oil thermostat. And a marine one. The 170 degree one's for automotive use won't allow moisture to cook out of the oil. You need one that opens at 220.

[fund razor]

Hmm.

[OldSchool]

Remember when you came up with your budget???










You should have tripled it!!!:sifone::26::26::26::26:

[Tony]

Remember when you came up with your budget???










You should have tripled it!!!:sifone::26::26::26::26:


I know that feeling all too well.

[fund razor]

Remember when you came up with your budget???

You should have tripled it!!!:sifone::26::26::26::26:

Budget? :D

[fund razor]

Where does the oil thermostat go in the system?

I am using remote filters too, so there will be more oil outside of the block than in.

[Chris]

Some are integral to the remote filter mount pad, some are in-line and some coolers have them built-in. I believe the Hardin is integral.

[Ratickle]

These are the ones I run. Only problem was finding the room. Ended up machining the holes in the solid mount engine plates larger and running them in line through the plates. Worked well and now can pull the engines with the coolers intact.


http://www.cpperformance.com/detail.aspx?ID=908

[Tony]

http://www.hardin-marine.com/ They make a few different styles. I need to call Hardin and find out a little more about the stand alone model. Ive re designed my remote oil setup twice already, I suppose scrapping two more sets of -12 AN stainless hoses wont hurt anything. :ack:

[fund razor]

The Hardin 620-700 looks good.

[PayCheck]

Fund Razor - what are your oil temps now? I presume you run in the Great Lakes (intuitive, aren't I?) -I run in Lake Ontario and further North and oil temps are reasonable without coolers.

[fund razor]

Fund Razor - what are your oil temps now? I presume you run in the Great Lakes (intuitive, aren't I?) -I run in Lake Ontario and further North and oil temps are reasonable without coolers.

I am doing new higher HP builds. (Still normally aspirated, just large cubes) I have been advised to add oil coolers by those in the know. My theory was get it done while I have the engines out anyway. I don't usually get farther south than Toledo. Water temps are usually 60 to 75 degrees during my season.

[sledge]

How about the Revolution Marine?

http://motors.shop.ebay.com/__?_from=R40&_trksid=m39&_nkw=revolution+marine

And please forgive my ignorance on pipe vs hose sizes, but does 1" NPT translate to the 1 1/4" hose diameter that's typically used? Or does the 1" NPT mean you have to buy an adapter to suit whichever hose you use? Just curious which type will flow better.

[Chris]

A good rule of thumb is that the next size hose up will flow about the same as the pipe in that size. So 1" pipe needs 1 1/4" hose. Hose is more flow restrictive than piping. But the real issue is fittings. Many people go to the AN/JIC fittings in these applications. That spec is primarily for high-pressure hydraulics. The internal diameters of those passages are adequate for 3,000 psi, but are very restrictive at 30. Purpose-built automotive type hardware is better suited for these applications. Always remember, the more the fittings, the less the flow. And elbows are absolutely a mistake. You always need to use a sweeping (tube style) elbow, not a 45 or 90.

[sledge]

(Hijacking for the greater good... :D)

So if I translate correctly, if you had a choice it's better to go with a 1-1/4" "hose barb" cooler rather than one which requires an adapter?

A few choices of coolers and molded hoses here:
www.ebasicpower.com
I typed "oil cooler" in the search box and scrolled down to find quite a few OEM style Merc replacements.

[Tony]

Well looks like I'l be redoing oil lines again, just ordered a pair of hardin T stats. Ive been on the fence about weather or not I wanted to use them, for the cold ass water I boat in late in the fall I decided its probably better to be safe than sorry.

[Chris]

Not necessarily. Just watch the adapters. The hose barb is obviously made for low pressure so you don't have to be concerned with losses. But there are different types of AN/JIC fittings.

I just ran downstairs to the shop. I grabbed a JIC 90 elbow in -6 (3/8") and mic'ed the opening of the internal passage. It's 0.234. But next to it is a hoase assembly with straight fittings swaged onto the ends. The opening in that same -6 hose is 0.170" So we drop our opening area to ONE FIFTH. We go from an opening area of .110 sq in on a 3/8 hose down to an opening area of .022 sq in on the inside of the fitting. These are 3kpsi nominal and 10kpsi max pressure hoses and fittings- and absolutely the wrong thisng for your application. And if you stop into a Parker or Aeroquip fluid power distributor, most likely what they're going to sell you. I'd be surprised if they had any cognizance of the application. They deal with HP hydraulics and don't necessarily understand the differences.

If you were to look in an equivalent low-pressure fitting (like an Earl's) you'd see a dramatic difference in ID sizes. If I recall, these fittings are max psi of 300. That's rubber hose, not the teflon-lined stuff.

Obviously a 3/8" hose cannot have a 3/8 id fitting on the end. So you have to be conscious of line sizing and restriction.

Much as I hate to do it...

http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/general-q/106633-oil-pressure-problems-stock-hardware.html?pp=20

We need to get Smitty to transfer this over here. Best article out there on oil system plumbing.

[Tony]

Those inverted flare fittings that Merc used on the remote oil systems back in the 80's have an extremely tiny passage in them, I mic'd one to help a buddy better understand that his 5/8" oil lines were extremely constricted at the fittings.

[PatriYacht]

I used Eddie Marine oil coolers. 3x18 on one engine and the 3x23 dual cooler for the power steering side. They were reasonable on the price.

[fund razor]

crap. My stock 454 remote oil filters ain't gonna cut it. :(

[Tony]

I used theese, same port size clear through the entire remote circut, I opted for the no bypass version of the block adapter.

http://www.hamburgersperformance.com/categories/?id=3679

[fund razor]

Let's talk some more about the sizing, and the 12AN fittings.

[sledge]

Have you disclosed what size motors you're building? Does anybody know how the lines sizes/hardware differ between Merc black motors and say a 525EFI?

As quick as we can be to condemn Merc for cutting a corner or two, they seem to offer stuff that holds together for its design intent. Nobody would go racing with a stock 454MAG, but the 525EFI and the 850SCi are spec motors for some of the race classes. IMHO, replicating what they use for your intentions should work out alright.

[fund razor]

Have you disclosed what size motors you're building? Does anybody know how the lines sizes/hardware differ between Merc black motors and say a 525EFI?

As quick as we can be to condemn Merc for cutting a corner or two, they seem to offer stuff that holds together for its design intent. Nobody would go racing with a stock 454MAG, but the 525EFI and the 850SCi are spec motors for some of the race classes. IMHO, replicating what they use for your intentions should work out alright.

Hmm. Hmmm. Maybe I will start by seeing what the existing setups look like. The old motors were built up a little. My use of the term "stock" may have been misleading. I really meant existing.

[Chris]

You probably don't need oil coolers- 90% of the time. You probably don't need oversize plumbing- 90% of the time. You probably don't need alot of things 90% of the time. It's the 10% that matters.

If you can maintain 3/4" plumbing (-6) throughout and use the right adapters, coolers, etc., you're going to be far ahead of the game. The angle fittings are the worst. If you read Smitty's overview on OSO, you saw how restrictive some block adapters can be. And the stock coolers- that's a one-way ticket to oil pressure and volume issues. Follow Smitty's advice and you've got all you need for 5800 rpm 540's.

[fund razor]

I did read Smitty's thread. That's what has me questioning my existing remote filter setups. I have doubts about them now.

[Tony]

Due to the limited space in my bilge lots of 90 degree fittings need to be used in the remote oil setup. 90's obviously dont help flow rate so I opted for the largest port sized parts I could find, -12. and increased oil volume (hp6 style filter). Is any of this necessary for a slightly more than moderate SBC, NO. I have luck like Gino and I think anything worth killing is worth over killing. The biggest resriction in my oil system is going to be the engine block itself. Like Chris said, its that 10% that matters.

Route it with -12 and run the dog **** out of it like the boat was built for.

[offthefront]

If you can go ($$) the Hardin with the built in Stats use those .... easier to plumb and a If you price the extra AN fittings and hose its Prob cheaper than seperate coolers and Stats ...I used -10 hose (550hp) and its worked out fine for about 2 years ..however I would go with -12 .... Piece of mind and not get *****ed at by other members ....:)

[2112]

The big Cooler Teague sells (which is the same as the big one at the bottom of Rex's list) are built here; http://www.aihti.com/home.htm In Chicago I believe.
.

[fund razor]

Piece of mind and not get *****ed at by other members ....:)

Got your whole point, and thanks. But this part cracked me up. :)

[showtime83]

ive got some tandem coolers i need to sell, they are pretty big, bought them and didnt use them, ended up going with a plate style cooler, i used the KE remote filter with the tstat in that, so they dont not have a t stat, any intrest?

[PatriYacht]

-10 fittings and hose have worked very well for me. They have double the cross section sq. inches of area of HP500 plumbing. -12 plumbing is a good bit more expensive and it's size and stiffness makes it hard to rig. Not worth the trouble imho.

[PatriYacht]

Get the coolers with 1 1/4 hose barbs. If you get the coolers with 1" threads then you have to buy the barb fittings and they aren't cheap. The less expensive coolers like the Eddie Marine have 1/2 npt bungs welded in. The -10 x 1/2 npt fittings have a nice large i.d. so I am comfortable using them. If I were building 1000hp+ I would use the -12 and the more expensive coolers but not with these engines.

[Ratickle]

ive got some tandem coolers i need to sell, they are pretty big, bought them and didnt use them, ended up going with a plate style cooler, i used the KE remote filter with the tstat in that, so they dont not have a t stat, any intrest?

I'll guarantee there's interest. I'll PM you a coupon number to list them. Then put a note here when you have them listed.

[fund razor]

I used Eddie Marine oil coolers. 3x18 on one engine and the 3x23 dual cooler for the power steering side. They were reasonable on the price.
You using separate oil thermostats, Ian?

[fund razor]

Separate, meaning outboard of the coolers.

[PatriYacht]

I was but my oil always ran 220+ so I took them off. Not sure what I did with them. Must be in the basement somewhere. See ya soon Fund.

[fund razor]

I was but my oil always ran 220+ so I took them off. Not sure what I did with them. Must be in the basement somewhere. See ya soon Fund.

Thanks.
Looking forward to it.