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View Full Version : Let me be the first to whine........



THEJOKER
10-11-2008, 11:10 PM
I miss the F1 days w / the 500 carb and efi. We had it going on and I'll never forget the good times we had. Sarasota , Toronto , W.Palm , Corpus , etc - deck to deck every lap! P-Class today is just not for me.

MOBILEMERCMAN
10-12-2008, 09:41 PM
I miss the F1 days w / the 500 carb and efi. We had it going on and I'll never forget the good times we had. Sarasota , Toronto , W.Palm , Corpus , etc - deck to deck every lap! P-Class today is just not for me.

I am right there with you. I raced F2 in the best days till the end. SuperV for a season. Looking to try Cat Ob next. P class is not my thing either. Good for some, but not for me.

THEJOKER
10-12-2008, 09:46 PM
I saw you all the time at the races. I don't know if we spoke though. F1-96 Hollis Motorsports , SVL Solarized #33 , P3-96 PowerBoatTours and F2-62 Talisman Marine. It would be so simple to bring back the spec classes in the smaller boats!

MOBILEMERCMAN
10-16-2008, 09:42 PM
We can meet again in Key West.

You were at w palm '99. That was so fun running on those mountain swells.
In "99 I crewed Tivoli B7 for APBA and drove F2-71 Fountain in SBI. That was a fun year.

THEJOKER
10-16-2008, 09:48 PM
We can meet again in Key West.

You were at w palm '99. That was so fun running on those mountain swells.
In "99 I crewed Tivoli B7 for APBA and drove F2-71 Fountain in SBI. That was a fun year.


Huge mountains 20 ft?....Miklos put bicycle flags on his boat. I thought he was nuts until the parade lap - HOLY CHIT!

MOBILEMERCMAN
10-16-2008, 10:02 PM
We broke a drive and idled back. That was frightening wondering who was going to come from behind and land on us.

Sanborn and I witnessed V-76 with Lilly throttling for Jeff Harris carrying across the tops of some of those mountains. OMG I will never forget it.

THEJOKER
10-16-2008, 10:08 PM
We broke a drive and idled back. That was frightening wondering who was going to come from behind and land on us.

Sanborn and I witnessed V-76 with Lilly throttling for Jeff Harris carrying across the tops of some of those mountains. OMG I will never forget it.
You are right on the money about somebody landing on each other. That was all that was on my mind. Are we going to land on somebody or vice versa. Man.... Lance Henrichsen - Warlock and Jo w/ Pantera duked it out. If F1 Came back w/ a 500 efi or carb I would have to build a new race boat and get back at it.

MOBILEMERCMAN
10-16-2008, 10:21 PM
Well SVL in OSS is pretty close. There are some nice used ready boats available.
I got lucky Drive the IMCO boat a few times. Its one of the well attended classes. LOTO had 7 or 8.
Randy was faster than we were by 1 or 2 so I made him work to get around me. I pushed him around some the best I could. It took him 3/4 of a lap to get by. This was the last moment we were ahead of him. Had a good time.

63

THEJOKER
10-16-2008, 10:55 PM
Well SVL in OSS is pretty close. There are some nice used ready boats available.
I got lucky Drive the IMCO boat a few times. Its one of the well attended classes. LOTO had 7 or 8.
Randy was faster than we were by 1 or 2 so I made him work to get around me. I pushed him around some the best I could. It took him 3/4 of a lap to get by. This was the last moment we were ahead of him. Had a good time.

63

Yes you are right - The SVL are deck to deck. We had the 700 hp when I raced SVL the last year before spec. I used to love to push em out and dive at the turn. I may be helping RonP with some shipping. Tell sticker boy hello in KW.

Phantom1
10-21-2008, 05:52 PM
Yes you are right - The SVL are deck to deck. We had the 700 hp when I raced SVL the last year before spec.

Ahhh, the good ol' days.

Lee
11-02-2008, 06:08 AM
I owned and throttled F1-32 and also raced F2-16, They were my all time favorite classes, That is until it turned into checkbook racing and we didn't have the cake to be competitive. Anyway, it was a very exciting time in offshore, especially going into the first turn in St.Clair with 26 F-1's :eek:

THEJOKER
11-02-2008, 10:01 AM
I owned and throttled F1-32 and also raced F2-16, They were my all time favorite classes, That is until it turned into checkbook racing and we didn't have the cake to be competitive. Anyway, it was a very exciting time in offshore, especially going into the first turn in St.Clair with 26 F-1's :eek:

I drove F2-69 in St Clair and will never forget going into turn 1. We got pushed out so far we were almost in the spectator fleet and people were jumping out of their boat as we hosed them down! Crazy stuff!

boatme
11-02-2008, 10:13 AM
ahhhh the good ole days

Wife and I went to look at buying a f-2 boat to race in 2003

Cherie was risk manager for the APBA Silver cup series and we wanted to race and not just officiate

We were just about to pull the trigger on the boat when we started to see things falling apart

We decided to wait a year and that is when the wheels fell off of the class and the sport

This was the best decision we never made to buy the boat

I would still love to race but i am no longer in the financial position I was in then, and the factory classes would have to come back for me to get interested in competing

I envy you guys who raced and who are racing

I have been involved in many facets of offshore for years

I have owned many offshore boats, and we have put on great events (Smoke On The Water Poker Run and Grand Haven off shore races)

We can not go back, but we can go forward using lessons from the past I hope we learn and re apply some of the winning thought processes when it comes to racing

Pop
11-03-2008, 03:06 PM
We broke a drive and idled back. That was frightening wondering who was going to come from behind and land on us.

Sanborn and I witnessed V-76 with Lilly throttling for Jeff Harris carrying across the tops of some of those mountains. OMG I will never forget it.

I'll never forget them either guys, when we deployed we had to time our jumps so that we were on top, if we missed, it was a long way down.

Pop

Wardey
11-03-2008, 05:11 PM
Factory Classes were always my all time favorites. We tried very hard to keep the class alive. It was one of the best. Dave

THEJOKER
11-03-2008, 06:25 PM
I'll never forget them either guys, when we deployed we had to time our jumps so that we were on top, if we missed, it was a long way down.

Pop


Yea another time I'll never forget was in Corpus 2000. You hovering in turn one at the start of the Super Cat race , me co-piloting in Angel II chasing them down the back straight away in 3-4's. Now that was cool!

Pop
11-03-2008, 08:27 PM
Yea another time I'll never forget was in Corpus 2000. You hovering in turn one at the start of the Super Cat race , me co-piloting in Angel II chasing them down the back straight away in 3-4's. Now that was cool!

Yea, that was cool, almost forgot about that one.

Pop

THEJOKER
11-03-2008, 08:49 PM
Yea, that was cool, almost forgot about that one.

Pop


And the 1st time we heard the name HERBOT when he went swimming in a F2 Boat. I could go on and on. Man Pop I miss those days and the whole APBA Family. St Pete Worlds 1999 was quiet a show too!

MOBILEMERCMAN
11-04-2008, 02:53 AM
Yea, You guys I remember like it was yesterday. Pops I miss you too. I hope our paths cross again soon.

THEJOKER
11-04-2008, 09:09 AM
Yea, You guys I remember like it was yesterday. Pops I miss you too. I hope our paths cross again soon.

Old APBA Racers Hug! HAHA:boxing_smiley:

AGITATOR
11-04-2008, 03:27 PM
yea i agree i enjoyed racing f1-20 it wa a good time and i got my feet wet

Strip Poker 388
11-04-2008, 03:31 PM
also I miss the F2 class, they made the manufactures do mods to the boats making them faster.Wish they still had them,

THEJOKER
11-04-2008, 03:34 PM
also I miss the F2 class, they made the manufactures do mods to the boats making them faster.Wish they still had them,


Yea they got faster and faster.....what an unbelieveable class.

p29steve
11-04-2008, 03:35 PM
i know i sound like a broken record but if someone has any pics of the snapperhead phantom F2-21.

thanks
steve

Strip Poker 388
11-04-2008, 11:26 PM
Yea they got faster and faster.....what an unbelieveable class.

I guess towards the end ,the engines had mods,hidden water tanks,etc made it not fun for some, The F1 I figure was the most competive and was always a closer race to me.:)

2TR
11-06-2008, 04:53 PM
I miss the F1 days w / the 500 carb and efi. We had it going on and I'll never forget the good times we had. Sarasota , Toronto , W.Palm , Corpus , etc - deck to deck every lap! P-Class today is just not for me.

I'll very new to the sport of boat racing, the first Offshore race I ever attended was last year at St Clair and I was in it!!

I Have always seen your post about wanting to "bring back" F1 and just though "Let It Go" "Move On" or "Get Over It".. but something changed my mind recently. I seen a 1999 APBA VCR Tape from N.C. and the event looked incredible! I'm not sure if it was editing but the fan turn out and pits looked bigger and better than St Clair looked. One thing Editing could not do was change the boat count, I think there was 18 Boats in F-2 and 16 in F-1.. NOW THATS RACING!!

I would in a second sell the cat and get a F1 boat if the race action was like that again, problem is how do you get it like that again?

BTW, I'm going to upload the 2hr show onto my computer and remove the commercials and you tube it when I have time. I think its a good show!

MANITIE
11-15-2008, 07:26 PM
Well you never know....maybe some idiot is working on investing his money on putting a series like that again....the question will be if someone... lets call him a idiot again puts up his money and gets the sponsors for the series and puts it together will the teams come back...but not a factory series...a 1 hull, one engine, one prop one weight no modifactation at all and everyone races the exact same boat like the IROC Series...and only 30 team owners will be involved...so the owner can sell his boat and teams rights at the going price at that time....but will have to maintain a racing status each year and make 80% of the races each year.....and lets just say this idiot worked out that...the first 7 boat owners will get contingency money for each race of the first year that will add up to 30% of the cost of a 50k complete race boat....but who would be that dum and put up that kind of money and be able to go out and get them type of sponsors.....:sifone:

Becareful Mr Hollis what your dream for....

THEJOKER
11-15-2008, 08:55 PM
Well you never know....maybe some idiot is working on investing his money on putting a series like that again....the question will be if someone... lets call him a idiot again puts up his money and gets the sponsors for the series and puts it together will the teams come back...but not a factory series...a 1 hull, one engine, one prop one weight no modifactation at all and everyone races the exact same boat like the IROC Series...and only 30 team owners will be involved...so the owner can sell his boat and teams rights at the going price at that time....but will have to maintain a racing status each year and make 80% of the races each year.....and lets just say this idiot worked out that...the first 7 boat owners will get contingency money for each race of the first year that will add up to 30% of the cost of a 50k complete race boat....but who would be that dum and put up that kind of money and be able to go out and get them type of sponsors.....:sifone:

Becareful Mr Hollis what your dream for....


Now who would be that crazy to try and put that all together?:biggrinjester:

THEJOKER
11-15-2008, 08:57 PM
I'll very new to the sport of boat racing, the first Offshore race I ever attended was last year at St Clair and I was in it!!

I Have always seen your post about wanting to "bring back" F1 and just though "Let It Go" "Move On" or "Get Over It".. but something changed my mind recently. I seen a 1999 APBA VCR Tape from N.C. and the event looked incredible! I'm not sure if it was editing but the fan turn out and pits looked bigger and better than St Clair looked. One thing Editing could not do was change the boat count, I think there was 18 Boats in F-2 and 16 in F-1.. NOW THATS RACING!!

I would in a second sell the cat and get a F1 boat if the race action was like that again, problem is how do you get it like that again?

BTW, I'm going to upload the 2hr show onto my computer and remove the commercials and you tube it when I have time. I think its a good show!
I was part of that and it was a blast!

Ted
11-16-2008, 01:33 PM
Well you never know....maybe some idiot is working on investing his money on putting a series like that again....the question will be if someone... lets call him a idiot again puts up his money and gets the sponsors for the series and puts it together will the teams come back...but not a factory series...a 1 hull, one engine, one prop one weight no modifactation at all and everyone races the exact same boat like the IROC Series...and only 30 team owners will be involved...so the owner can sell his boat and teams rights at the going price at that time....but will have to maintain a racing status each year and make 80% of the races each year.....and lets just say this idiot worked out that...the first 7 boat owners will get contingency money for each race of the first year that will add up to 30% of the cost of a 50k complete race boat....but who would be that dum and put up that kind of money and be able to go out and get them type of sponsors.....:sifone:

Becareful Mr Hollis what your dream for....

If that idiot needs any help with that I know another idiot or two that love the concept :biggrinjester::seeya: and would be glad to help.

THEJOKER
11-16-2008, 01:37 PM
If that idiot needs any help with that I know another idiot or two that love the concept :biggrinjester::seeya: and would be glad to help. Both of you idiots are idiots. I've been known to be an idiot too!:rofl:

MANITIE
11-16-2008, 04:23 PM
I was called a IDIOT when I told racers that racing was a buisness to me when I got started....so I like being called a IDIOT....

How crazy would this IDIOT be if he opened a race shop...lets say in New Port Richy were all boats were rigged exactly the same on a templet right down to were the battery boxes and bildge pumps, gauges were all located...nothing could be moved on the boat, every boat would be rigged exacly the same way and the owner would have to inspect the boat before delivery and sign off that everything matches the templet. All materials for rigging will be the same make so sponsorship packages can be formed, from seats to pumps to gauges. From that point on, the owner has full responsibilty that the boat remains exacly to spec. during all inspection.
And the race shop will also be used for workshops for getting sponsorships for your teams. The more teams with actual sponsors, the better for the Series..

And what if this IDIOT has been working with a engine munufacture for the last 7 months on the series and is now down to talking to hull manufactures to see what is the best for the series....one Manufacture was easy...told him what I was looking for and can he build them in a timely fashion and price was good...2 others I have been working with...1 since Feb 08, the other since April 08...will be meeting with the one on Nov 21. for finnal numbers and pricing and sponsorship and will then take it to the other manufacture to see if they can compete for the contract.....and then will make the finnal decision of the 3. The boats will have 2 race seats but also back seating....it will be a boat that you can truely race on Sat and take the family out the same day with no changes...so it can still be appealing to the 1 boat family.

This IDIOT has signed a 5 year contract with a sponsor with his race team which he can add to this Seires.....

Thinking on races sites....this IDIOT has not talked to any race Orgs but this is the thinking of the IDIOT:

1. I will approch the Orgs when the Series is formed and just like any sponsorship package I propose, I will sit down with them and lay out what the Series can bring to the table.

2. Offer to race on Saturday before regular testing on a shorter course. The IDIOTS thinking is, race on only a 3 mile course, keeping the course shorter with easier visability. since the speeds will not be very fast there is no need for 2 or 3 mile straight aways....in F1 we reached our top speed in around 300 yards when we started at 60 mph

3. The Series will bring in its own prize money and be responsible for its Series.

4. This IDIOT will have a little help if any pemits are need for this with the C.G.

This Sereis in no way wants to take current race teams away from other orgs....but to bring in more teams in a little differant type of racing...

Just some things in the works from a IDIOT....

MANITIE
11-16-2008, 05:03 PM
Hey Ted...I will be talking to people that have interests in the Series...both in racing and directed involment....after seeing some of the crapp that has gone on over the 9 years of racing....you start to learn who to and who not to get involved with.....

The good thing is the max amount of owners that this will be open to is 30...so thats 30 teams which I will be one of and already have a few others that want to race in the Series that I know well....

The thinking is you are in control of your investmet, we keep it inexpensive to race, which the number one thing is the cost of the boat, we get the 30 owners involved, and you now have a race team you can sell the rights and boat to.....and with no updates to the hulls at all, your boat today will be built exacly as the one being built 4 years from now...so the speeds will be the same today as they will be 4 years from now....the only advantage will be the people in the boat...even the prop issue has been worked out....

THEJOKER
11-16-2008, 06:01 PM
Hey Ted...I will be talking to people that have interests in the Series...both in racing and directed involment....after seeing some of the crapp that has gone on over the 9 years of racing....you start to learn who to and who not to get involved with.....

The good thing is the max amount of owners that this will be open to is 30...so thats 30 teams which I will be one of and already have a few others that want to race in the Series that I know well....

The thinking is you are in control of your investmet, we keep it inexpensive to race, which the number one thing is the cost of the boat, we get the 30 owners involved, and you now have a race team you can sell the rights and boat to.....and with no updates to the hulls at all, your boat today will be built exacly as the one being built 4 years from now...so the speeds will be the same today as they will be 4 years from now....the only advantage will be the people in the boat...even the prop issue has been worked out.... I'd also say you have lost your mind but I'd also like to say you know I'd be your biggest cheerleader. Go Gino!

Ted
11-17-2008, 10:29 AM
Hey Ted...I will be talking to people that have interests in the Series...both in racing and directed involment....after seeing some of the crapp that has gone on over the 9 years of racing....you start to learn who to and who not to get involved with.....

The good thing is the max amount of owners that this will be open to is 30...so thats 30 teams which I will be one of and already have a few others that want to race in the Series that I know well....

The thinking is you are in control of your investmet, we keep it inexpensive to race, which the number one thing is the cost of the boat, we get the 30 owners involved, and you now have a race team you can sell the rights and boat to.....and with no updates to the hulls at all, your boat today will be built exacly as the one being built 4 years from now...so the speeds will be the same today as they will be 4 years from now....the only advantage will be the people in the boat...even the prop issue has been worked out....


Check your PM :26:

Wardey
11-17-2008, 11:13 AM
Both of you idiots are idiots. I've been known to be an idiot too!:rofl:

I know an idiot that would be another idiot for this also. I guess my wife is correct, i'm an idiot !!!:)Dave

sbracing
11-17-2008, 11:38 AM
Sounds interesting. Keep us posted. Single car/engine series have been
very successful in road racing. VW currently runs a Diesel Jetta series in the US, Mazda very involved in open wheel series, as well as a pro Miata series.
The manufacturers get great exposure, the drivers get to showcase their talent, not their budget, as all teams have same equipment. The team owners don't get into a cash war over the newest gadgets to gain 1/10 of a second.
Could be a great series.

fastedy
11-17-2008, 11:44 AM
Gino, Check out these links for the SPR, Spec Racer Ford, It is turly a successful spec racing class with over 800 cars sold, I dont think you need to limit the number of boats to keep value, these cars sell for $27k new and are selling for 18K used, the first car is exactly like the 800th. One Company builds these cars (scca enterprises), their sold threw a13 dealer network. They can maintaine them if you wish, arive and drive. I have been dreaming of this idea for a while glad your doing something abought it. You may even look to Honduras for your Hull work.
Call me when you have time.
Eddie

http://www.scca-enterprises.com/


http://www.hrace.com/

http://video.aol.com/video-detail/spec-racer-ford-and3997-scca-runoffs-at-mid-ohio-scott-webb/2897978998/?icid=VIDURVAUT12

MANITIE
11-17-2008, 12:21 PM
That pretty cool Eddie...

The thinking behind the 30 ownes is not only the boat resale but the value of the team ownership...if all 30 spots are bought and someone wants to get in...it would bring up the value of the ownership on sale time....

On the boat sale...you would not loose much at all...by keeping the sale being new at 50k it would only depreciate but so much...buying a 300k race boat is a diffeant story...plus the visability of the hull manufacture would be getting would be a plus also....

Also by every boat being rigged exactly the same with the same companys like:
Batterys
Guages
Engines
Props
Steering
and so on....these companys can become part of the Series...

MANITIE
11-17-2008, 12:34 PM
I know an idiot that would be another idiot for this also. I guess my wife is correct, i'm an idiot !!!:)Dave

I think there are more IDIOTS out there they we think....but the IDIOTS I have seen that are interested would be the ones to really make this work and already have a great reputation in racing....

Ted
11-17-2008, 01:15 PM
"Good morning everyone, welcome back to coverage of the Idiot Racing League." :D

MANITIE
11-17-2008, 01:20 PM
The true IRL.....

kirby
11-17-2008, 02:09 PM
:dupe:Heil !!! Oss !!!!!

MANITIE
11-17-2008, 02:26 PM
The speeds will be under 75....pending on the hull we go with will depend on the speeds...I have the speeds of 2 of the munufactures and waiting on the 3rd....on a 3 mile course its just a little bigger then Talladega...so the visability will be much better and will be able to see the whole race...also it will be easier for safety with less ground to cover....also in some of the bigger water races....they will still be able to run good speeds...

Also, I have thought a little ahead of things...if it takes off...all 3 munfactures have a bigger hull...so we can go to a twin engine class in the furture...with the cost only going up to around 80k and speeds in the mid 80's

kirby
11-17-2008, 03:01 PM
Gino you must heil to oss !!! Bow to speros youre leader lol

MANITIE
11-17-2008, 03:35 PM
Now that fans have accepted "offshore "boats running "inshore "your'e venues should be inexaustable.

Stick with one class for a while . take it around the country ,make it work ,then talk twins . This is where it always goes wrong . ....the model does not take off quick enough ,sooooo........... let's take on more classes ! (Then the Big Mouth with Big pockets cries ,I,m offended i'm offended ! Lets Buy out that race venue ,we'll show them !!! )
And of course we know where that ends ....another entity fighting for the same old crews .

Then BOOM !!! now we have sbi,opa ,,popra , and IRL all doing the same thing .

Go with youre first idea . It will work .

Thats the plan.....down the road if the 30 owners fills up...thats when and only when I would move to enter twins.....this way the owners of the single class can sell there ownership and move up to the twins class....but I have been getting calls about "what about a twins class".....this way they can now read the answers to it....it will be kept simple and cost efficent...and the cheating part will be simple to handle....

kirby
11-17-2008, 04:03 PM
OSS IS .... ALLL IS OSS !!! BOW MY OBAMANS :ack2:

MANITIE
11-17-2008, 05:11 PM
One is a 26 and the others 2 are 24's...
The engine sponsor will handle the engines....a lot easier then you think (see simple part)
There will be a GPS on every boat that will have a cover on the recall switch...the recall will be reset by the inspector during inspection and cover will be sealed any boat that is running faster then most will have there boat taken threw a indept inspections to find the reason....if found cheating see "simple part"
There will only be 1 prop company....2 props
1 ruff water
1 calm water
props will be the property of the Org. and drawn at race day...racers choose either a ruff or calm water prop. Other racers will not be able to see what teams are choosing what props...once props are choosen that will be the prop you will race...
The prop company will inspect each prop after the race...any damage will be billed to the race team to fix it to spec just like they would if it was there's

This is the "simple part"....any boat that that dose not fit the templet that was on deleivery date signed off by the owner during inspection, the owner, racers and boat will be terminated from the Series and the boat (hull #) will not qualifie to race in the Series even with a new owner....and will not be paid the remaining contingency money.

This way the only racers and owners that will have a problem with that are the ones that will cheat....I have read a number of racers posts that said its the job of the race teams to find ways around inspection...and its the inspectors job to find the cheaters....I don't agree with that....its the race owners to comply to the rules...if not the Series don't need you or the racers...if you really want a Series that is equal in race boats and it to come down to the people in the boat then it will be provided....
We should not have to spend stupid money on hiring a number of inspectors to chase cheaters....

We even have the gas issue taken care of....

2TR
11-17-2008, 05:12 PM
My 2 cents :

Keep It Cheap! Cheaper the better, people may be slow to buy a boat for a new class that may not be around in 2 yrs or so. But if the boats are "Cheap", Class 5 Capable and can be used as a weekend "bay blaster" they will be easier to sell.

2 Race Format: If your the only race running Saturday run 2 Short 7 laps races like they did at Havasu (sp?) this year. Fans and racers seemed to enjoy it.

3: When Can I get one?

2TR.
(a.k.a 2 Trick Rick)

kirby
11-17-2008, 05:26 PM
Nice to have moderators like brut:26:e steroid again

Ted
11-17-2008, 05:29 PM
And how sexy will it be to do a poker run or raft up with a full lettered race boat :D

Ryan Beckley
11-17-2008, 05:30 PM
I like the idea.....

why would there be a GPS have anything to do with the racing? GPS racing is CRAP!!! Just ask all the class 5 teams in KW!

Ted
11-17-2008, 05:30 PM
Pssst dont forget ECUs, maybe they should belong to the organization too ;)

Ted
11-17-2008, 05:31 PM
True, if the setup on the boats is right, GPS is redundant. (And I gotta a radar gun)

THEJOKER
11-17-2008, 05:42 PM
I like the idea.....

why would there be a GPS have anything to do with the racing? GPS racing is CRAP!!! Just ask all the class 5 teams in KW!

No offense to any orgs but I totally agree w/ you Ryan! Mininum weight at the end of the race is the only weight to go.

MANITIE
11-17-2008, 05:42 PM
My 2 cents :

Keep It Cheap! Cheaper the better, people may be slow to buy a boat for a new class that may not be around in 2 yrs or so. But if the boats are "Cheap", Class 5 Capable and can be used as a weekend "bay blaster" they will be easier to sell.

2 Race Format: If your the only race running Saturday run 2 Short 7 laps races like they did at Havasu (sp?) this year. Fans and racers seemed to enjoy it.

3: When Can I get one?

2TR.
(a.k.a 2 Trick Rick)

The race is already set of 2 starts...1st race will be based on last race finishing orders...2nd race will be inverted to the 1st race finishes...last place inside lane...1st place outside lane..

MANITIE
11-17-2008, 05:46 PM
I like the idea.....

why would there be a GPS have anything to do with the racing? GPS racing is CRAP!!! Just ask all the class 5 teams in KW!

Ryan...the reason for the GPS is we will be doing a lot of testing with the 1st boat...we will know what it is capible of doing in differant conditions...
The GPS will help us...if we have 1 boat thats 2 mph faster then any other and faster then we ever had it in the current conditions then it will give us a reason to check into it...there will also be protest proceedures....

MANITIE
11-17-2008, 05:49 PM
No offense to any orgs but I totally agree w/ you Ryan! Mininum weight at the end of the race is the only weight to go.

There will also be a min weight at the end of each race like we did in F1...pending on how many boats there are will determan how many boats get weighed if there is 10 boats we may only weight the top 5 finishers or to how many places the prise moneygose out to.....THIS WILL NOT BE GPS RACING.....it will be something for us to look at if 1 boat is comming a lot faster then the rest...we all know if 1 boat starts to dominate, teams will be lookig for why....if the top boat is running the same speeds as the 3rd and 4th place boats..it will tell us they are just doing a better job on racing the boat around the course

MANITIE
11-17-2008, 05:53 PM
These boats will be identical....you will not be able to move anything on the boat, even down to the fire extinguisher...the only option you will have is a weight box in the bow....adding weight to that area will be the only thing you will be able to add to the boat....

MANITIE
11-17-2008, 06:06 PM
True, if the setup on the boats is right, GPS is redundant. (And I gotta a radar gun)

Thats the point Ted....there will be very little set up...you will have 2 props to choose from and you can add weight to the box set in the bow....thats it....this way more teams will be on the same set up other then if you choose to add weight...which means most boats will be running very close to each other....

kirby
11-17-2008, 06:16 PM
[heil oss !!! Kneel or be banned ...........lol

kirby
11-17-2008, 06:19 PM
WHAHHHH ! dOUG KELLEY KEEPS BEATING ME ON THE RACE COURSE . WHAAAHH !!! :dupe:

I QUIT JC. I AM GOING TO " HEIL !!!! OSS !!!!

Ryan Beckley
11-17-2008, 06:20 PM
What do you mean there will be Very Little Set Up????? It will be ALL set up if everything is Identical!!! Are we talk I/O or OB's? Will spacers be allowed? AGAIN I like the Idea of the class this way but I don't think it's going to work how you think it is. Who is going to rig all of these boats, unless it is someone like DCB, Grant's , or TNT , I believe you are going to have alot of issues. If you are going to try to offer this type of series and no one is able to do anything on there boats you'll need to own all the boats. I feel cheating will be rampant if not.....This is a giant undertaking and I applaud anyone for taking it on....

MANITIE
11-17-2008, 06:29 PM
These rules make the point . NO GPS .Gino leave it out .If you want it for testing ,test the first boat ,the rest will be identical . If one goes faster , kudos to the team running it .

Be carefull how much seasoning you put on this .Simple is best .You seem to have interest from people who actually race .
SIMPLE inexpensive competition .

I like teds comment about race #'s :biggrinjester:


By the way ........are You Really going to do this ? if so get with the boys in youre new neighborhood

I will leave the GPS issue up to the fist 5 team owners....its not a big deal...

As far as, am I really going to do this...I have been working on it since Feb 08...I started with emails to manufactures and phone calls since then....I have not been able to work on it as much over the race season becasue of my commetment to my race team...but the engine package was the biggest obstacle..which I have overcome...the Hull issue is pretty easy becasue I have been in contact with 2 of them over the last 10 months....but could not go any further without a engine sponsor....so yes...I'm really doing it....but the bottom line will be how many teams will join...I will be purchasing the 1st boat so teams can see I have invested into it along with everythng else I have invested....

Who are my new neighborhoods...you don't ahve to post it...just email it to me...

MANITIE
11-17-2008, 06:38 PM
What do you mean there will be Very Little Set Up????? It will be ALL set up if everything is Identical!!! Are we talk I/O or OB's? Will spacers be allowed? AGAIN I like the Idea of the class this way but I don't think it's going to work how you think it is. Who is going to rig all of these boats, unless it is someone like DCB, Grant's , or TNT , I believe you are going to have alot of issues. If you are going to try to offer this type of series and no one is able to do anything on there boats you'll need to own all the boats. I feel cheating will be rampant if not.....This is a giant undertaking and I applaud anyone for taking it on....

Yes Ryan...there will be very little set up....no spacers...you will see what I mean...I'm not asking anyone to join...I already have some teams that I feel will join with a lot of racing background....thats what I want...these teams will be compinsated for being the 1st ones....the 1st 5 or so I will be working with.....Selling racers on joining a new Series would be very tough...but selling a Series that I already have 5 boats in and racing will be much easier....
and yes...all the rigging will be in one shop...

Ted
11-17-2008, 06:40 PM
Thats the point Ted....there will be very little set up...you will have 2 props to choose from and you can add weight to the box set in the bow....thats it....this way more teams will be on the same set up other then if you choose to add weight...which means most boats will be running very close to each other....

No,I mean the initial set up as they are built. If the rigging and set up is kept exact then the boats should run the same. Now if I was to personally get involved, I would want to know if I could make changes to wiring, connections, fuel fittings, etc. Since I know that the boat MUST stay running to win, if I can't change actual performance setup I would really like to work on reliability. Also, can I add a bumpin stereo and a fridge :26::rofl:

Ted
11-17-2008, 06:42 PM
I would also like to look at syndicates to race, do you envision the driver and throttle having to be the same each race, or can the boat keep the points??

kirby
11-17-2008, 06:43 PM
:drool5: OSS THE ONLY REAL CHAMPS MAN YOURE WORLDS WAS GREAT THIS YEAR >

2TR
11-17-2008, 06:46 PM
Do you have a guess on the size? I would say keep them under 26ft so a person could run them Saturday in the "Spec Class" than race again Sunday in Class 6. Small power in a 28 would ride nice but would also get worked in class 5 limiting the boat owners options.

MANITIE
11-17-2008, 06:56 PM
No,I mean the initial set up as they are built. If the rigging and set up is kept exact then the boats should run the same. Now if I was to personally get involved, I would want to know if I could make changes to wiring, connections, fuel fittings, etc. Since I know that the boat MUST stay running to win, if I can't change actual performance setup I would really like to work on reliability. Also, can I add a bumpin stereo and a fridge :26::rofl:

Yes Ted...you could replace wiring, filters,oil and plugs....regular maintance and so on...since there will be sponsors of equipment..if for example a guage went out the same gauge would have to be replaced....once you see the boat you will understand what I mean....

Ted
11-17-2008, 06:57 PM
are you reggie fountain ?:lurk5:


No, but I love a nice big box of ECU's to dig around in :26: Or maybe we could put them all in a pinata and have everyone scramble around on the ground for them before the race, think of the entertainment value. :biggrinjester: Or better yet, a foot race to the end of a course, station one has props, station 2 has ECU's, run back to your boat, install, and launch for starting position :26::dupe::03: That right there is entertainment, I don't care who you are :rofl:

MANITIE
11-17-2008, 06:57 PM
I would also like to look at syndicates to race, do you envision the driver and throttle having to be the same each race, or can the boat keep the points??

Once the ownership is purchased it dose not matter who is in the boat as long as they are a member of the Series and in good standings...

Ted
11-17-2008, 06:59 PM
Oh, and don't forget all your safety gear for the foot race :D

MANITIE
11-17-2008, 07:00 PM
No offense intended . I asked so you would proclaim intensity of the program .

Stick to I/O,s ..NO O/B.s APBA already has multiple O/B small boats .In fact their venues would love youre package . think about it . They already have the inshore venues locked up . You would not have to deal with startup ( NIGHTMARE !! ) Then run some true offshore only at premier events .
just an idea of what i would go see .

That is a option for venues...that is one of the Orgs I was talking about...I do have 1 Org that I will approach first that I think we will fit in

Ted
11-17-2008, 07:00 PM
Once the ownership is purchased it dose not matter who is in the boat as long as they are a member of the Series and in good standings...


Excellent, then I have some great marketing ideas for you, we'll talk soon.

Ryan Beckley
11-17-2008, 07:05 PM
It all sounds good, if it is planned out properly....good luck with your program. I hope you'll have VERY GOOD inspectors. One of the problems with the ONE Design boats is that they were never kept up properly, then teams were allowed to own them , different prop were had and all simplicity was lost. A self owned IROC type program where boats were rotated each race would be much easier to police but would NOT be cost effective. I would think that if you had 5 registered / commited owners come next MARCH , any group would be glad to have you.

Again , I commend you for undertaking this.....

Pop
11-17-2008, 07:18 PM
Gino, PM sent

Pop

MANITIE
11-17-2008, 07:19 PM
Do you have a guess on the size? I would say keep them under 26ft so a person could run them Saturday in the "Spec Class" than race again Sunday in Class 6. Small power in a 28 would ride nice but would also get worked in class 5 limiting the boat owners options.

1 boat is 26 and the others are 24's....seeing the hp that is being run in Class 6 I would say that it would not be compeditive for that class..

MANITIE
11-17-2008, 07:24 PM
It all sounds good, if it is planned out properly....good luck with your program. I hope you'll have VERY GOOD inspectors. One of the problems with the ONE Design boats is that they were never kept up properly, then teams were allowed to own them , different prop were had and all simplicity was lost. A self owned IROC type program where boats were rotated each race would be much easier to police but would NOT be cost effective. I would think that if you had 5 registered / commited owners come next MARCH , any group would be glad to have you.

Again , I commend you for undertaking this.....

Thanks Ryan....and yes...one Manufacture mention to me about owner 3 or 4 of them and lease them out....but I feel that is not a good way to go...having a owner involved and owning the rights to it would be one of the bennifiits

kirby
11-17-2008, 08:01 PM
If you want to win ,kick out the REAL competitors like OSS does

fastedy
11-17-2008, 08:02 PM
Gino, Every thing sounds good, This is your project and I am very intrested, as I said earlier, I have been thinking of something like this for a while, Mark and I spoke to Steve Curtice abought his Honda Program, my suggestions would be.
1. not limet to 30 teams, the success of the class would retain value in the boats
2 24 to 27' boats with rear seat like the honda boats
3 possibly small blocks, cheapest HP for the buck, I bet you can get these under 40/45K
with single ram sterring, bennet tabs
4. most important, dry exhaust, this is a race boat, it needs to sound like one.

MANITIE
11-17-2008, 08:23 PM
Eddie....I will call you tommorow....the reason behind the 30 teams is also apperances...I don't want 40 teams and only avg. 15 boats a race...I would like to get team owners that I can thrust will be at the races...If I promote that there will be 25 boats there...I would want to have 25 boats there...by putting the team owner responsible on making 80% of the races to keep there ownership,it will let owners know up front...if your looking to only running a few races and picking up a pay check...that won't help the Series and we don't need that....I would rather have 10 boats with 10 good owners then 15 owners and avg. 8 boats a race....

The small block is a good idea but finding a engine sponsor to put up a sponsorship is not easy....sure you can find someone to build engines...but to find one that will make the races and inspect and give you a sponsorship deal on one is a differant story....

I'll talk to ya tommorow

mikey
11-17-2008, 09:31 PM
Hey Gino just caught up on the post and would love to help. Check your pm.

Do you see this as being a way to get other people involved in the racing program. I know that you want the exprience of Ryan or Eddy, or any racer for that matter, but do you see this as a way to make the sport bigger by bringing in new people?

THEJOKER
11-18-2008, 10:27 AM
Ballast tanks up front = safety. Just a thought.

MANITIE
11-18-2008, 10:54 AM
Hey Gino just caught up on the post and would love to help. Check your pm.

Do you see this as being a way to get other people involved in the racing program. I know that you want the exprience of Ryan or Eddy, or any racer for that matter, but do you see this as a way to make the sport bigger by bringing in new people?

Mikey....what my goal is.....I'm trying to get some experienced racer who are not in boats right now to start with and then go after guys that are not involved in racing or had been and are out....I'm not trying to get current race teams to get out of there race boat and into this one....it will do nothing for the sport....The goal is to get your weekend boater to get into one of these, race for a while, the speeds are not crazy...but if they like it they can sell there ownership and boat and move up to P-Class and by them selling there ownership I still will maintain my numbers....

The 5 guys that I would want to be the first teams are not currently racing but have a great history of racing....they will be the guys I'm going after...and by compensating them will give them a reason to join in....

MANITIE
11-18-2008, 01:55 PM
Well this tread has turned into a big help.....since posting the info on the Series I now have another engine builder interested in the Series....
I will leave all doors open till I hear everyone both in engines and hull manufactures....times are slow and companys need work...but I think the Hull make is pretty well set....I feel confident with them....but still will let the other 2 put there offer on papper....

Thanks to Brain H....he has offer his rule book from the ORL that I will input to what I have already.....

Thanks Brian....and thanks to everyone that has shown interest in the Series....

Again...I want to make myself clear....I don't want to take boats away that are currently racing....I'm looking for racers who are not racing but want to get back into it..so we can start the Series and make it appealing to the everyday boater....

kirby
11-18-2008, 02:31 PM
Gino in just a few months youve done what these few hecklers could not do in 5 years . Kudos to you .

MOBILEMERCMAN
11-18-2008, 02:42 PM
Gino Good deal and good luck. I figured I share a thought. I don't know the extent of your travel schedule, but seems likely not everyone will attend all races as history shows from past seasons. Why not also invite racers that will only race a few. So if guys commit to a full schedule great, but try not to lose the others that can't or won't do them all. If you get enough over a broad area you can still put on a good show. If they commit to buy a boat that is great don't overwhelm everyone by insisting on a full season too. It would be great if everyone did them all, but it seems a little unrealistic to me.

Good luck.

MANITIE
11-18-2008, 03:09 PM
Jim...

1st- It was good to see ya again in K.W. Its been along time...good to see ya back in the sceen again.....
2nd -You have been around for a long time in racing so any of your input is good information....thanks

The thinking is that if racers really want to be paid for there services then they have to contribute...by puting a Series together and working on putting a race boat together for 50k or less and get money back for everey race you attend...your investment will pay for itself down the road...but for it to pay for itself the owners need to committ....thats why the first 7 owners need to be paid for there services....for this to work we need to bring in a show..even with 7 boats to start with, we will still be able to put on a great show.....they will be able to miss 1 race a year...and for the teams that make every race they will be able to drop there worst race in points....

kirby
11-18-2008, 03:18 PM
:gino dont let the guys who tore up real racing back in ,03 discourage you

Ryan Beckley
11-18-2008, 03:54 PM
Make sure you start with a reputable boat company that a finance & insurance company will cover..........

MANITIE
11-18-2008, 03:55 PM
TRUE !

Try some partnership deals ,where two or more teams own a boat and trade off driving crews. Since it's a budget circuit you are after ,and the owners cant touch the boat anyway ( other than the maintenance you described )they wont be arguing who's idea is best and could work out .

I agree in advance this would not work with a conventional team due too ego ( who's smartest ,who put in most $$$who is most experienced . )

It worked in the lease program tho .Guys showed up at their race took a boat and raced and left ,next race someone else may have been it .Youre program should be better since at the end any member selling off, gets some of his investment back .And for the little guys , they want that .And you did say the BOAT was the qualifier ?

The Big boys knew they lost their $$$ the day they ordered their hull ,big difference in thinking .

The thinking is...by have a ownership...the boat mantains the points...so if some racers cannot make a race but the owner has 2 other guys that can race that weekend they can...as long as they are members and are in good standings with the Series....its up to the owner if you trust the other racers...and with the contingency money out there per race...it would benifit the owner to have his boat in every race....

MANITIE
11-18-2008, 04:00 PM
Make sure you start with a reputable boat company that a finance & insurance company will cover..........

Thanks for the input Ryan....

Yes all 3 manufactures boats are well know in the boating community and are insurable and I already have one bank set up if fin. is needed, you will have to quilifie but they will also due sub-prime players with a downpayment..

One of the things I'm not going to have set up right away is taking in trades...my shop will be set up for sales...but I will not jump in and start taking in trades in this market without having a buy figure or a buyer for your boat....Since I don't want to take race boats out of other Series...I will look more for pleasure boats to trade who's owneers want to get into the Series..I want to put my time in my current race team and the Series vice being in boat sales

catmando
11-19-2008, 11:15 PM
If that idiot needs any help with that I know another idiot or two that love the concept :biggrinjester::seeya: and would be glad to help.YOU lol :D

catmando
11-19-2008, 11:17 PM
I was called a IDIOT when I told racers that racing was a buisness to me when I got started....so I like being called a IDIOT....

How crazy would this IDIOT be if he opened a race shop...lets say in New Port Richy were all boats were rigged exactly the same on a templet right down to were the battery boxes and bildge pumps, gauges were all located...nothing could be moved on the boat, every boat would be rigged exacly the same way and the owner would have to inspect the boat before delivery and sign off that everything matches the templet. All materials for rigging will be the same make so sponsorship packages can be formed, from seats to pumps to gauges. From that point on, the owner has full responsibilty that the boat remains exacly to spec. during all inspection.
And the race shop will also be used for workshops for getting sponsorships for your teams. The more teams with actual sponsors, the better for the Series..

And what if this IDIOT has been working with a engine munufacture for the last 7 months on the series and is now down to talking to hull manufactures to see what is the best for the series....one Manufacture was easy...told him what I was looking for and can he build them in a timely fashion and price was good...2 others I have been working with...1 since Feb 08, the other since April 08...will be meeting with the one on Nov 21. for finnal numbers and pricing and sponsorship and will then take it to the other manufacture to see if they can compete for the contract.....and then will make the finnal decision of the 3. The boats will have 2 race seats but also back seating....it will be a boat that you can truely race on Sat and take the family out the same day with no changes...so it can still be appealing to the 1 boat family.

This IDIOT has signed a 5 year contract with a sponsor with his race team which he can add to this Seires.....

Thinking on races sites....this IDIOT has not talked to any race Orgs but this is the thinking of the IDIOT:

1. I will approch the Orgs when the Series is formed and just like any sponsorship package I propose, I will sit down with them and lay out what the Series can bring to the table.

2. Offer to race on Saturday before regular testing on a shorter course. The IDIOTS thinking is, race on only a 3 mile course, keeping the course shorter with easier visability. since the speeds will not be very fast there is no need for 2 or 3 mile straight aways....in F1 we reached our top speed in around 300 yards when we started at 60 mph

3. The Series will bring in its own prize money and be responsible for its Series.

4. This IDIOT will have a little help if any pemits are need for this with the C.G.

This Sereis in no way wants to take current race teams away from other orgs....but to bring in more teams in a little differant type of racing...

Just some things in the works from a IDIOT....I see you've been thinking about this a lot. I hope it works and you can get sponsorship which we all know is tough even in the best of times which these are not.

THEJOKER
11-19-2008, 11:23 PM
I see you've been thinking about this a lot. I hope it works and you can get sponsorship which we all know is tough even in the best of times which these are not.

Somehow , someway Gino has been in this arena for a while. He's got a knack for never quitting. I wish him the best and I'll be the biggest drum beater of all if he call pull this off. I love open cockpit spec offshore powerboat racing.

catmando
11-19-2008, 11:28 PM
I know an idiot that would be another idiot for this also. I guess my wife is correct, i'm an idiot !!!:)DaveYall could call Idiot Offshore Racing. :rofl:

Sounds great Gino, it would be so cool to see this happen and I bet John "Can't Understand Normal Thinking" Haggin would be another IDIOT on board in a heartbeat!


[Edit I like Ted's Idiot Racing League better]

catmando
11-19-2008, 11:45 PM
And how sexy will it be to do a poker run or raft up with a full lettered race boat :DAbsolutely, major props!

catmando
11-20-2008, 12:24 AM
Gino what ci/hp are you looking at? I think I know an engine builder who might be interested.

MANITIE
11-20-2008, 11:22 AM
Gino what ci/hp are you looking at? I think I know an engine builder who might be interested.

Since I have posted about what I have been working on with the Series I have had 2 other engine builders interested in it...I will hear them out...we will not need any big HP to get these boats in the low 70's on a fairly light weight hull....I have the weight of 2 of the hull munufacatures and working on the exact weight of the 3rd....but looking for a very reliable engine package that we can work with them backing and inspecting them and have involment in the Series.....If they are interested please feel free to have them contact me....I have one sponsor already done for the engine package...but I will hear every option before signing a contract. Once that is done I will have the 1st one built so everyone can see it...Once everyone acually see's it and has the opertunity to take a ride in it, then they will be able to picture how this could take off....

fastedy
11-20-2008, 12:12 PM
2. Offer to race on Saturday before regular testing on a shorter course. The IDIOTS thinking is, race on only a 3 mile course, keeping the course shorter with easier visability. since the speeds will not be very fast there is no need for 2 or 3 mile straight aways....in F1 we reached our top speed in around 300 yards when we started at 60 mph

....

Then could you possibly Race Class 6 on Sunday?

MANITIE
11-20-2008, 12:34 PM
Eddie....from lookig at the HP being run in Class 6...I don't think they will have the exceleration as the Class 6 boats have....the Class 6 speed is 70...so they will be able to hit the speed cap...but if they wanted to... more power to them....that is also if we are invited into OPA....

On Nov 26th I will post the hull that we will be going with, by the 24th I will have all 3 munufactures numbers.....with the new engines builders showing interest...I will talk to all and see what will benifit the racers and the Series the best....not just sponsorship but backing and servicing...with the economy slow....this is a great time to negotiate with munufactures and builders...I have talked to one builder on what you and I have discussed, so I will leave that option open also...