Props spinning in VS. out

[PARADOX]

AS I understand it the bravo drives forward and reverse gears are the same. or interchangable. Meaning that it can go FT in "reverse" or in forward.

So if I want to experiment with prop rotation.... (they are spinnng in right now)
can I just switch the props.. put in "reverse" and go ??
I don't feel like messing with the cables yet.
Once I figure out which way is better then I will switch the cables.

[P Offshore]

Yes......
Be careful its tougher than it looks

[fund razor]

Yes......
Be careful its tougher than it looks

It would freak me out.
I am picturing having to dock like that. Yikes.

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

No dock busting.

[glassdave]

It would freak me out.
I am picturing having to dock like that. Yikes.

not really as bad as you think. I've done it many times just take your time while docking (like you should anyway). I wouldnt do it in a high current high wind area though.

Heck The raceboat is like that permanantly. Ed seems to like to run it that way but he gets to dock it. i get the sticks when its go-time :D

[h2oMag]

[Ed seems to like to run it that way but he gets to dock it] That's why he is EVIL Ed !!!!!

[PARADOX]

may be I send a note to Reggie.

I got the "fastest "V" bottem"

Going backwards. :26:

[MarylandMark]

Wouldn't Charlie know vs getting dirty?

[Elite Marine]

It does freak you out!!! Like they said make sure its a calm day and there arent a ton of people around, you'll throw it in the wrong direction at least once!

[PARADOX]

Some sound advise guys. I'll let Charlie try it first.. I stay on the docks and call my Ins. Co. increasing my coverage..

But thanks.. I will do a bit experimenting this weekend.

[Edward R. Cozzi]

The funniest thing I ever saw was a guy try to run his TRS drives in reverse to try out how the boat performed with the props turning in. The Borg Warner tranny has about a 2.5:1 reduction in reverse. They got so hot they burned the black paint completely off.

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

Edward many years ago when I worked at a dry stack a customer winterized his boat at his car dealership. Long and the short of it is they reinstalled the TRS drives backwards and ran the boat in reverse and burned up both trannies. So in attempt to save on winterizing he ended up pulling both motors and replaced both transmissions.

[OutlawCowgirl]

I have always heard spin your props in to win. Well, at least that is what I have been told. I believe I have tried a left prop on my single drive and had to run it in reverse to go forward. I noticed no difference in preformance and I hated remembering to do the oppisite, I was just testing the prop so it was only for a while. Not sure if my going on helped any but I thought I would give my .02. In To Win.

[PARADOX]

.02's are always welcomed. :). In a single drive application left spin or right won't make any difference. The torque is the same. In twins.. generally speaking.. spinning in is a bit faster, spinning out give you a ted more stability. Lot depands on the hull and even if the set is staggered or side by side. Mine are side by side.. so I just want to do a little experimenting.

[Tom A.]

Bravo drives don't care which way they spin so you can "reverse" the props without any concern other than the shifters being backwards. As far as spinning in vs. out, my understanding is that spinning them in produces slightly more stern lift and in staggered apps. slightly more thrust.

[PARADOX]

Did a test run today, Spinning out, and going all out with shifters in "reverse".

Strange...
The rooster tail was different, wider and taller, a bit slower. (1 may be 2 MPH)
but seemd to have more stearn lift. I had to trim out more then when the props was spinning in.
Docking,,,, now that was interesting.:ack2:

[shifter]

Not something you really want to do if you want any life out of your drives. If you flex a piece of metal it will fail in X time in one direction/ it will fatigue(break) much quicker if you bend it both ways.

In the case of some drives the rev set is 1/2 size in reverse.(outboard)

pat W

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

Yes Shifter most drives have an intended rotation. This discussion started talking about Bravos.

[US1Fountain]

Did a test run today, Spinning out, and going all out with shifters in "reverse".

Strange...
The rooster tail was different, wider and taller, a bit slower. (1 may be 2 MPH)
but seemd to have more stearn lift. I had to trim out more then when the props was spinning in.
Docking,,,, now that was interesting.:ack2:


I seen zero gains in speed when going from in to out. Boat feels alot more stable now, and docking is 10x better. I spend more time docking than running WOT, so I keep them turning out.

[Griff]

Did a test run today, Spinning out, and going all out with shifters in "reverse".

Strange...
The rooster tail was different, wider and taller, a bit slower. (1 may be 2 MPH)
but seemd to have more stearn lift. I had to trim out more then when the props was spinning in.
Docking,,,, now that was interesting.:ack2:

Spinning in creates more bow lift and also the rooster will go toward the center more and almost create one rooster as gets it farther back. Your results sound pretty typical for changing from spinning in to spinning out.

[Team Tsunami]

I always thought it was the other way around. Spinning in creates stern life and out bow lift. Thats why on mostly all staggered step boats the props spin in cause you dont need the bow lift. On our Gladiator staggered and step they turn in. On out flat bottom Sutphen they only have them turning in for race set-up but you would run them out for pleasure (swtiching this winter). On our side by side stepped Hustler the props spun out cause the boat had too much stern lift in the hull.

[shifter]

Jim,

My post was just for a bravo type drive. It does not make sence for a 3,4,5, or 6. There you would have to swap the lowers on an old style 3,4,5 and 6 and the whole drive on a 6a.

If you want to switch rotation on a bravo just swap the lowers because they are used to running in a clockwise direction or counter clockwise. The upper will be fine because it has not run that much in rev.

It is a little less work to do besides filling the drive oil.

pat W

p.s. do not forget to drain it first.

[Griff]

IMO, If something breaks from changing the rotation on a bravo drive, it was going to break soon anyway.

[Thunderstruck]

I have heard of guys swapping drives from side to side to "even" out the wear on the upper gears. Anyone do that?

My drives turn out, turning in didn't do too much if anything that I remember. May try it again if I could get 1-2 mph.

[Team Tsunami]

I have heard of guys swapping drives from side to side to "even" out the wear on the upper gears. Anyone do that?

My drives turn out, turning in didn't do too much if anything that I remember. May try it again if I could get 1-2 mph.

Yes we have done that on the Cigarette.

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

I have heard of guys swapping drives from side to side to "even" out the wear on the upper gears. Anyone do that?

My drives turn out, turning in didn't do too much if anything that I remember. May try it again if I could get 1-2 mph.

Shifter has a point,but I haven't fallen victim to it. On pleasure boat I would swap the rotation after a couple hundred hours.

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

Pat, I guess from your post you have seen the pinion gear fail after swapping rotation?

On a big power set up they get gone through regularly any way.

[J.T.]

Spinning in creates more bow lift and also the rooster will go toward the center more and almost create one rooster as gets it farther back. Your results sound pretty typical for changing from spinning in to spinning out.

That's the theory I suscribe to.

My boat is a little over 1 mph faster with them turning in.

[Strip Poker 388]

That's the theory I suscribe to.

My boat is a little over 1 mph faster with them turning in.



I just tried it,turning them in went to 105.1 compared to 102.4. I just tried it that one day to test,It carries the nose pretty high:)

[Blue Thunder]

If you visualize your boat cutting a vee through the water and the props running on the vee. Props spinning in will attempt to walk down the vee (bow lifting) and will give a narrower stance to the boat, kind of feels like being on a rail. Props spinning out the props want to walk up the vee (stern lifting) and give a wider more stable stance. That seems true particularly on straight vee bottom hulls.

Docking with the sticks reversed; shut off the non power steering engine and cut the confusion in half. Dock it like a single until you change the cables.

BT :sifone:

[Trim'd Up]

On my old 320 turning in was about 1mph faster but it handled far worse. It porpoised badly, even with almost no trim, and wanted to fall of the pad constantly. Then again that boat tended to fall off the pad anyway. Never did like that boat. I would rather run my 24 outlaw in the rough than the 320, at least you know what the 24 is going to do.

[J.T.]

On my old 320 turning in was about 1mph faster but it handled far worse. It porpoised badly, even with almost no trim, and wanted to fall of the pad constantly. Then again that boat tended to fall off the pad anyway. Never did like that boat. I would rather run my 24 outlaw in the rough than the 320, at least you know what the 24 is going to do.


It fell off the pad turning out ?

A friend of mine had the same boat, and I got to
experience that (falling off the pad) while driving:eek: when he had them in,
switched them to out, and it behaved much better.
( and didn't fall off the pad)

[LAKE EFFECT]

[QUOTE=shifter;15195]Jim,

If you want to switch rotation on a bravo just swap the lowers because they are used to running in a clockwise direction or counter clockwise. The upper will be fine because it has not run that much in rev.


If your going to try different prop rotations on a Bravo the safest thing for the drives would be to swap the drives from side to side, and if you like it, then switch the shifter cables.

Reason being(like shifter pointed to) is that your loading your lower shafts and gears in an opposite direction, causing un-needed stress to the parts. As far as the upper gears go, your now loading the opposite gear that never had a load on it so the gear would be ok, but your still spinning the clutch shaft in the opposite direction, also causing stress on that shaft. In early IMCO drives(like I currently run) IMCO used helicut gears with welded floors, and they only weld one gear in each drive(1 top,1 bottom), so switching rotation with just the shifters can cause gear failure.

I have been slowly upgrading my drives, and deal with AAron and Jason at Max Machine Worx. Very smart guys, answer all my questions, and sell good parts. Just my $.02

LE

[Trim'd Up]

It fell off the pad turning out ?

A friend of mine had the same boat, and I got to
experience that (falling off the pad) while driving:eek: when he had them in,
switched them to out, and it behaved much better.
( and didn't fall off the pad)

It was much much worse turning them in. It was barely driveable. But it would occasionally do the same with them turning out with 3 blades.

[PARADOX]

I tried them both ways. Turning in gives me a bit more speed but actually a bit less stability. THis hulls handles extrimely well in the rough, so turning in really isn't an issue.
Reverse docking is a bit easier turning out. But since I could use a little bow lift with out using the drives for lift, I will keep them turning in.

Thanks for all the input.

[J.T.]

I tried them both ways. Turning in gives me a bit more speed but actually a bit less stability. THis hulls handles extrimely well in the rough, so turning in really isn't an issue.
Reverse docking is a bit easier turning out. But since I could use a little bow lift with out using the drives for lift, I will keep them turning in.

Thanks for all the input.


Something I've found out by experimenting, is that
if you leave the drives trimmed slightly positive,
the docking maneuverability is slightly better
than if you have them in the full down position.

[FULL FORCE]

It was much much worse turning them in. It was barely driveable. But it would occasionally do the same with them turning out with 3 blades.

My 320 handles great, but it is an 86, a little different then the ES series, a little more running surface, I have hard time getting the bow up, I can trim it to the moon and the bow is down, boat rides very level. I am spinning out now, so.. if I spin them in I should be able to get the bow up right?

[Trim'd Up]

My 320 handles great, but it is an 86, a little different then the ES series, a little more running surface, I have hard time getting the bow up, I can trim it to the moon and the bow is down, boat rides very level. I am spinning out now, so.. if I spin them in I should be able to get the bow up right?

Very different boat.

[FULL FORCE]

Very different boat.

Yes it is...

[Trim'd Up]

I missed your question full force. Yes I would think you should get more bow lift form turning them in. My 320 had more than enough bow lift anyway, but turning them in it was definately higher out of the water.

[FULL FORCE]

I missed your question full force. Yes I would think you should get more bow lift form turning them in. My 320 had more than enough bow lift anyway, but turning them in it was definately higher out of the water.

Ok.. thatw as what I was looking for, thanks!

[Offshoredrillin]

wonder how it would work on the tiger, i have the drives off now and might switch them up when it comes time to go back on...Pat, Tres anyone?

striaght hull 00 tiger, xr's 1.5 and top speed about 76 turning out now.

[shifter]

I would go with what feels comfortable to you. I have never seen two boats act alike or throttlemen.

I normally set up the boat with data and do one change at a time. Normally when we change inboard to outboard we also change driveheight in the end as well. If you do not have data that is ok. It always depends on what you want acceleration, handling or top end. Run a baseline run and make changes and take notes.

We try everything to see what makes a difference. If you have the time, test. You also might want to contact the factory to see what their results have been.

pat W

[BradB]

would changing the drive rotation effect planning?? I have a 88 38 scarab KV. the X-diminsion is pretty high on this boat. Props are 3" below the bottom with TRS drives. I am having a hell of a time getting on plane. Im spinning the drives out now, would spinning them in help this possibly? I was gonna try it in the spring to see if it helped the boat run better.

[Tres]

I always thought it was the other way around. Spinning in creates stern life and out bow lift. Thats why on mostly all staggered step boats the props spin in cause you dont need the bow lift. On our Gladiator staggered and step they turn in. On out flat bottom Sutphen they only have them turning in for race set-up but you would run them out for pleasure (swtiching this winter). On our side by side stepped Hustler the props spun out cause the boat had too much stern lift in the hull. Youve got that incorrect. Your being held back a grade:sifone:

[Rookie]

Originally Posted by Team Tsunami
I always thought it was the other way around. Spinning in creates stern life and out bow lift. Thats why on mostly all staggered step boats the props spin in cause you dont need the bow lift. On our Gladiator staggered and step they turn in. On out flat bottom Sutphen they only have them turning in for race set-up but you would run them out for pleasure (swtiching this winter). On our side by side stepped Hustler the props spun out cause the boat had too much stern lift in the hull.

Youve got that incorrect. Your being held back a grade:sifone:

No matter what you try be careful until you get to know how the boat reacts. I switched rotation on my Panther and did not think it made much difference. After runnig decently hard on calm waters for half of a season no big deal. Well reality hit later in the season when I was running hard in semi-rough conditions. With the props spinning in I could not carry the bow in rough water, the stern was elevated higher and the bow kept falling from wave to wave. This in return would make the boat (bow steer?) every time it dropped, making the porpoise from side to side. It kinda scared that crap out of me.

So what ever you try please be carefull!

[showtime83]

My 320 handles great, but it is an 86, a little different then the ES series, a little more running surface, I have hard time getting the bow up, I can trim it to the moon and the bow is down, boat rides very level. I am spinning out now, so.. if I spin them in I should be able to get the bow up right?

my dad had a 95 320 baja, twin 454 mags, bravo's, came from baja with the props spinning in, side by side engines were so close together you could barley get your fingers inbetween the exaust, docking wasnt the greatest with it, it didnt like to back up, but it ran very good and carried the bow fairly high for that boat