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View Full Version : Nav lights, opinions please



fund razor
05-06-2009, 10:38 AM
I have a 28 foot brave. The prior owner had some paint and glass work done and in the process... some lighting was removed. I believe that it had a bow combo (red and green) light and an all around mast light, like pic p22d.

I have had boats that were set up like pic p22b, with the stern light working with the mast light so that there was less glare for the driver. This is my preference, so I will be changing the 360 degree 2nm light for a 270, I think it is.

On the issue of the port (red) and starboard (green) would you install a single light in each side at midships, or would you just go with a single combo light at the bow? (I had this on the last boat)

I assume that there were anchor line "keepers" on the bow too.... otherwise the anchor line would rub on the edge of the boat. (pic 200a1)

fund razor
05-06-2009, 10:44 AM
Maybe if I can find a smallish pop up for the bow... that would work.

fund razor
05-06-2009, 10:55 AM
I am leaning toward a single pop up bow light. Doing some searches, and that seems like the way.

Along the way I found a cool "how-to" with a couple tricks for the install.

http://www.wakesiderides.com/viewArticle.php?id=151

fund razor
05-06-2009, 10:59 AM
Looks like a good price for the stainless model:

http://www.cpperformance.com/detail.aspx?ID=3478

Airpacker
05-06-2009, 10:59 AM
mine are mid ship and I like em that way.

MOBILEMERCMAN
05-06-2009, 11:08 AM
You need separation between the red/green and white lights. If you do a combo bow light you can do the split white like the pic on the right. The single white behind you has a tendency to blind you. I prefer the split white for running at night.

MarylandMark
05-06-2009, 12:06 PM
Maybe if I can find a smallish pop up for the bow... that would work.

1st thing that popped in to my head!

Chris
05-06-2009, 12:16 PM
On the Cig, I'm going with the pop-up bow. I would have preferred to put them in the deck cowling but it has the aluminum race fairing and you can't hide them from behind (without making something obvious)

For 360 white, I'm going with one of those powered mast deals. It retracts flush so it's not obtrusive. Lights aren't a big deal for me. I prefer to be docked, showered and eating a nice dinner by sunset. When I night-boated more, I made up a little piece of plastic sheet with a clip. It went right on the mast below the light. It shielded my eyes from the light, but allowed clear view of it.

fund razor
05-06-2009, 12:21 PM
I prefer the split white for running at night.

Me too. I run mostly in the day, but our season is so short and I work days, so sometimes I will do an afternoon-evening run and a few times I have ended up in the dark.

I have ended up driving other guys boats home in the dark though. :rolleyes:

Sydwayz
05-06-2009, 12:36 PM
Trick used to sell a pop up like the one offered by CP, but it had LEDs in it.

You need to find one that is spring loaded to stay up, and has a latch to keep it down.

I have the one above like CP offers, and it has a 'notch' that you pull the light up into. The problem is such that if you take a nice little landing, the light falls down.

This would be the one that I would go with:
http://www.monstermarinestore.com/productdetail.cfm?productid=1044&incat=50

kvogt
05-06-2009, 01:12 PM
I'm in the middle of re-doing my boat as well and plan on changing my lighting. I was thinking of going the same direction as Chris but can the powered mast 360 degree light be mounted behind the driver. I was thinking of mounting it on the step ledge forward of the rear cleat so it would not shine in my eyes. Is that legal?

Kris Vogt

OBNOXUS
05-06-2009, 01:13 PM
Trick used to sell a pop up like the one offered by CP, but it had LEDs in it.

You need to find one that is spring loaded to stay up, and has a latch to keep it down.

I have the one above like CP offers, and it has a 'notch' that you pull the light up into. The problem is such that if you take a nice little landing, the light falls down.

This would be the one that I would go with:
http://www.monstermarinestore.com/productdetail.cfm?productid=1044&incat=50


Thats the one I use,,,,, I like it as it installs with a circular hole,,,, not a cutout like the other style

MarylandMark
05-06-2009, 01:14 PM
I have ended up driving other guys boats home in the dark though.

I've had (pre-arranged most of the time) my boat driven home more than a few times by friends. The LOVE the remote controlled arch lights on my ride!!

fund razor
05-06-2009, 01:27 PM
I'm in the middle of re-doing my boat as well and plan on changing my lighting. I was thinking of going the same direction as Chris but can the powered mast 360 degree light be mounted behind the driver. I was thinking of mounting it on the step ledge forward of the rear cleat so it would not shine in my eyes. Is that legal?

Kris Vogt

I believe that this is within the standards. I have seen it alot on smaller boats, but I think that all vessels under 20 meters are ok.

fund razor
05-06-2009, 01:28 PM
Trick used to sell a pop up like the one offered by CP, but it had LEDs in it.

You need to find one that is spring loaded to stay up, and has a latch to keep it down.

I have the one above like CP offers, and it has a 'notch' that you pull the light up into. The problem is such that if you take a nice little landing, the light falls down.

This would be the one that I would go with:
http://www.monstermarinestore.com/productdetail.cfm?productid=1044&incat=50

That is a good point. Thanks Brian.

BDiggity
05-06-2009, 09:20 PM
I am planning to add the Livorsi ellipticals http://www.livorsi.com/catalog/rigging1.htm#elliptical on each side of the Cafe's fairing. I originally wanted a pop up for up front, but wanted a motorized one.

Would there be an issue w/ this setup since the mast light mounts at the front of the fairing?

old377guy
05-06-2009, 09:47 PM
I'm in the process right now of re-doing my navigation lights because I do a fair amount of night cruising and am annoyed with the masthead light(glare) above my windshield. Since my Scarab is just a bit under 12 meters I can go with a single all-around white light which I will place near the stern. (I'll decommission my transom mounted stern light). I'm mindful of the regulation that states that the all-around white light must elevated 1 meter -39.6 in. above the forward (red/green) light. Taking into account the rake of my boat, my mast will likely be 48+ inches. I'll just keep the pole in the cabin and pop it in the socket after dusk. - Ok, I'm refering to the aluminum "light pole":biggrinjester:

Scarab KV
05-06-2009, 10:49 PM
I am planning to add the Livorsi ellipticals http://www.livorsi.com/catalog/rigging1.htm#elliptical on each side of the Cafe's fairing. I originally wanted a pop up for up front, but wanted a motorized one.

Would there be an issue w/ this setup since the mast light mounts at the front of the fairing?

I would think so. White needs to be behind your forward navs. Things would be pretty confusing for other boats. Too many out there at night that think they know what they're doing. No need to make it any harder for them.:D

ChiefApache
05-07-2009, 09:26 AM
Ours are also mid-ship and prefer them there vs the bow.

Last year we took our nav light and removed it from the windshield (hard to see if it's dusk or you're out at night), and we put in a pop up LED 360 on the transom. We talked about the electric nav light, but we have the manual and it works great for us.

We are so happy with the nav light being located in the back of the boat, and the mid-ship lights allows you to see if a light is burned out easier than the bow lights.

fund razor
05-07-2009, 09:42 AM
Ours are also mid-ship and prefer them there vs the bow.

Last year we took our nav light and removed it from the windshield (hard to see if it's dusk or you're out at night), and we put in a pop up LED 360 on the transom. We talked about the electric nav light, but we have the manual and it works great for us.

We are so happy with the nav light being located in the back of the boat, and the mid-ship lights allows you to see if a light is burned out easier than the bow lights.

Does it cast too much glare into the cockpit? Mine is all white.

Also... I would be afraid of becoming invisible when bow up in waves from the perspective of a vessel that I am overtaking but not yet able to get alongside. They may not see side lights, or the stern light. I thought that if I did a bow light for port/starboard signaling, and a mast as high as possible it would help. My paint job will make it very hard for someone to get a sense of the size of the boat. It is almost navy camo.

fund razor
05-07-2009, 09:47 AM
Here is BGIII's 34 foot Sabre with midship p/s lights

ChiefApache
05-07-2009, 09:52 AM
Does it cast too much glare into the cockpit? Mine is all white.

Also... I would be afraid of becoming invisible when bow up in waves from the perspective of a vessel that I am overtaking but not yet able to get alongside. They may not see side lights, or the stern light. I thought that if I did a bow light for port/starboard signaling, and a mast as high as possible it would help. My paint job will make it very hard for someone to get a sense of the size of the boat. It is almost navy camo.

The mid-ship lights are very visible, not worry there. The bow widens mid-ship, so the lights are the widest part of the boat and can easily be seen.

You have to understand that we're not getting light into our cockpit from the nav light due to the height of our back seat. There have been 3 or 4 of us that removed our front nav lights to the back and wished we had done it long before we did.

ChiefApache
05-07-2009, 09:54 AM
Here's a pic of our mid-ship lights. They are original.

MOBILEMERCMAN
05-07-2009, 10:04 AM
http://www.uscgboating.org/safety/fedreqs/equ_nav.htm

I have noticed many boats are not lit properly. The rear 360 light is often not tall enough. Having spent many many hours boating at night I found the split white light much better. Glare on the dash is only part of it . It prevents you from looking around too. It is your responsibility to be seen.

We used to keep the battery back ups, the flashlight looking things, on board too.

If someone hits you and their lawyer determines you weren't properly lit it is on you.

fund razor
05-07-2009, 10:41 AM
The mid-ship lights are very visible, not worry there.

So... if you are following me, and I am going too slow... and pretty soon Rob has to check up on his speed to see if he can safely pass or not, given the width of the channel, speeds, hazards, etc. While he is evaluating the situation, if I turn my head and look aftward, directly back at your bow... which is exactly on my 6 O'Clock, will I see two midship lights from 100 or more yards in front of you, looking straight down your bow? And will the passengers or anything else hide that rear light? If I can't see both lights when you are coming up on my 6, I may not realize that you are heading directly at me.

fund razor
05-07-2009, 10:46 AM
I am thinking about a split white and a combo bow light. I think that this may give me the maximum visability to other vessels. I mean... when I look back and see a red and green very close together, with a white a few feet above it... I know for sure that a vessel is following me up or down the channel.

I feel kind of a responsibility to define the length of the bow by using a bow light.

Hmmm.

BDiggity
05-07-2009, 11:04 AM
I would think so. White needs to be behind your forward navs. Things would be pretty confusing for other boats. Too many out there at night that think they know what they're doing. No need to make it any harder for them.:D

That was my thought too. I will look at moving it to the stern then. i really dont have it out at night so i have time to figure it out.

ChiefApache
05-07-2009, 11:12 AM
So... if you are following me, and I am going too slow... and pretty soon Rob has to check up on his speed to see if he can safely pass or not, given the width of the channel, speeds, hazards, etc. While he is evaluating the situation, if I turn my head and look aftward, directly back at your bow... which is exactly on my 6 O'Clock, will I see two midship lights from 100 or more yards in front of you, looking straight down your bow? And will the passengers or anything else hide that rear light? If I can't see both lights when you are coming up on my 6, I may not realize that you are heading directly at me.

Yes, you will see both midship lights and our bow light, which meets the USCG standard that Jim posted. That was one of the things I was concered about, will the nav light be high enough to see at night? It's very visible at night all around.

You have to understand John that in our boat, our sunpads and back seat are much higher than most due to the depth of our cockpit. The nav light towers over all of it, so it is not prohibiting your sight when you look back.

Why do you think if you look behind at 6 o'clock at any boat with midship lights that they are not visible? They have to be, correct? Otherwise how would anyone be able to see you when you are heading towards them? There are many baots with midship nav lights.

fund razor
05-07-2009, 11:29 AM
Yes

Ok.

fund razor
05-07-2009, 11:33 AM
There are many baots with midship nav lights.
Yeah, my Stinger had them, but the shorter bow and design of the boat lent intself to being able to see both very well. I just wondered on a really long boat with them back so far that they are literally on the side, if one was ever obscured.

ChiefApache
05-07-2009, 11:57 AM
Yeah, my Stinger had them, but the shorter bow and design of the boat lent intself to being able to see both very well. I just wondered on a really long boat with them back so far that they are literally on the side, if one was ever obscured.

OK that makes sense understand your concern. Be careful with pop-up anything. Keep them oiled so they are loose as we've come across some that are difficult to pop up, and your nav lights are one thing you don't want to have a problem with.

phragle
05-07-2009, 12:10 PM
John.... before you get ANY ideas.... you are NOT stuffing me in the anchor locker with a white light on my head and a red and green flashlight in each hand.

fund razor
05-07-2009, 12:24 PM
John.... before you get ANY ideas.... you are NOT stuffing me in the anchor locker with a white light on my head and a red and green flashlight in each hand.

Dam. You could have had a jacket that said "Rob" on one side and "Nav Lights" on the other. :D

phragle
05-07-2009, 12:29 PM
with a big apache on the back?? and is there a rum and coke dispenser in the anchor locker??

fund razor
05-07-2009, 12:31 PM
with a big apache on the back?? and is there a rum and coke dispenser in the anchor locker??

Yep. And a small bolster.

sledge
05-07-2009, 12:34 PM
FWIW, the 311 has a rear mast light that mounts right between the grab bars at the rear of the engine hatch. I ran a bunch at night and while it may have required you to put your hand up to shield your vision from the light if looking back, it wasn't that big of a deal (we're in go-fast boats; how often is someone overtaking us? :D ). I never found it to be a problem as far as overpowering my cockpit or forward vision.

Also FWIW, think of what the minimum lighting is that you need to determine direction. All you have to see is red or green to know you are within the forward 180 degree arc; if you see white with a color then you're within the 180 arc on either side; if all you see is white then you're somewhere behind. I know when I'm running at night, the last thing I'm looking for is a white light over a color; I'm just looking for color.

MarylandMark
05-08-2009, 10:52 AM
Me too Sledge but put an extra o before the l and change the last o to an e (cooler)

:26:

Before panties are in a bunch, that is a joke!

fund razor
05-09-2009, 03:26 PM
FWIW, the 311 has a rear mast light that mounts right between the grab bars at the rear of the engine hatch. I ran a bunch at night and while it may have required you to put your hand up to shield your vision from the light if looking back, it wasn't that big of a deal (we're in go-fast boats; how often is someone overtaking us? :D ). I never found it to be a problem as far as overpowering my cockpit or forward vision.

Also FWIW, think of what the minimum lighting is that you need to determine direction. All you have to see is red or green to know you are within the forward 180 degree arc; if you see white with a color then you're within the 180 arc on either side; if all you see is white then you're somewhere behind. I know when I'm running at night, the last thing I'm looking for is a white light over a color; I'm just looking for color.

I got ya Michael.... but when I am running at night, I am looking for anything I can get. :D

Audiofn
05-10-2009, 03:54 AM
Sledge my 311 and 302 had the 180 degree stern light, mid mounted 360 degree, and bow light. I did change the 302 to a stern light only but not the 311. My guess is that some one changed yours over as well?

Jon

sledge
05-10-2009, 11:52 AM
Jon, I think it was a design change, late '80s or starting with '90 maybe? I knew the early models of our size and most of the smaller SR1 series have the windshield mounted 360 plus the transom. But since mine was a '91 I figure Formula must have figured something out that made them make the change. I'm certain mine was factory original because I had to replace the mount once. Probably one of the few positive experiences with West Marine; they ordered a white replacement for me for less than $10 from the manufacturer. It was probably a no brainer for Formula to change the setup since they could still use the wiring harness for the stern light, and eliminate everything for the windshield mount. Not to mention improvement in driver's visibility.

So Fund I forgot to mention earlier, if you need a mast mount in white or black I'll see if I can dig up a part number. I might've sent all the receipts with the boat when I sold it though...

Elite Marine
05-10-2009, 05:03 PM
Let me know what you need from Livorsi. I will give you very nice pricing.

Kirk

elitemarine@sbcglobal.net