The Great Unification

[stevequick]

Do we pass up this opportunity to make a difference while we wait for the "Great Unification"?
Someday we will all race under one banner for people we all respect who have rules in place we all agree upon. Thirty boats will compete in each of three classes and we will all have the time and sponsorship money to travel the continent end to end March to November.

Someday someone will lead us there and no one will be happier than me.

We can continue to wait or we can make the most of the deal SBI put together to show the world what we do.
Millions of households will be seeing Offshore racing for the first time beginning this October. They don't care about what has been or what will be. SBI/OSS and OPA are meaningless to them. They will be entertained and "hooked" or they will not. Much of that choice is up to us. We have plenty of boats and we certainly have the personalities to make these programs successful. Will we be sorry if we don't?
No doubt there are questions about these programs and their production , but if we like the answers why would those of us who can afford to participate not do so? Why would any boat with a sponsor not take advantage of this exposure? I am not minimizing or criticizing the efforts of those who are trying to improve Offshore.
I would be curious to hear the reasons we as a group would not take this opportunity to help create the buzz we know Offshore can generate?

SQ

[Coach]

One reason is that the groups involved, sanctioning (SBIP/APBA Offshore, OSS, OPA, POPRA, etc,) Team or boat owners, and the 'Gladiator' particapants themselves, haven't organized their perspectives. I read the history of the players union at this site:

http://mlbplayers.mlb.com/pa/info/history.jsp

It's obvious the fragmentation is sabotaging the sport. I even had one of the local business people in Clearwater, who is personally involved in the buzz we generated, say he was concerned this was a bunch of "BS" and might be like the wrestling clowns, staged acrobatics!

As a benefactor of organized labor myself, I realize what I'm suggesting is a huge undertaking, but look where it's working, MLB, NFL, NHL, NBA....

It's a process through progress, a particapants and owners association (OSS) that would qualify and license. That would negociate with credible sanctioning (SBIP / APBA Offshore as a national entity) and the regional sanctioning (OPA, POPRA....)

Just a thought,

Ray

[Sean Stinson]

Hi Steve

To answer your question in a simple word....NO!!! It's a step in the right direction!!! The Great Unification is going to be a long drawn out process! I have some ideas that I am going to package together and present to the 3 orgs and as I stated before we (myself & the orgs) will be confronted with 2 scenarios 1) we will get together and race as a unified front or in steps to a unified front OR 2) we will continue down our current path!!!! It's that simple!

Now back to the TV deal I think that it needs to be capitalized upon and put the differences aside between the orgs....I don't know if any compromise will be made to OPA or OSS concerning fees and rules but I would hope that maybe something could be structured!!!! After all I think this might be one last shot at reviving our precious sport!!!!

[stevequick]

One reason is that the groups involved, sanctioning (SBIP/APBA Offshore, OSS, OPA, POPRA, etc,) Team or boat owners, and the 'Gladiator' particapants themselves, haven't organized their perspectives. I read the history of the players union at this site:

http://mlbplayers.mlb.com/pa/info/history.jsp

It's obvious the fragmentation is sabotaging the sport. I even had one of the local business people in Clearwater, who is personally involved in the buzz we generated, say he was concerned this was a bunch of "BS" and might be like the wrestling clowns, staged acrobatics!

As a benefactor of organized labor myself, I realize what I'm suggesting is a huge undertaking, but look where it's working, MLB, NFL, NHL, NBA....

It's a process through progress, a particapants and owners association (OSS) that would qualify and license. That would negociate with credible sanctioning (SBIP / APBA Offshore as a national entity) and the regional sanctioning (OPA, POPRA....)

Just a thought,

Ray


Coach,
You might have missed my point. We may not ever achieve your wish of unification. At least not on the level you are suggesting. We also might never get a chance like this CBS deal again.
As for your "local businessman". Tell him that when CBS features Wrestling Clowns and Acrobats, that's what they get. At the moment they want Offshore Powerboat Racers. I suspect that's what they will get. Most of us are hoping this will be positive for our sport. I, the eternal optomist believe it could be much more.
SQ

[stevequick]

Hi Steve

To answer your question in a simple word....NO!!! It's a step in the right direction!!! The Great Unification is going to be a long drawn out process! I have some ideas that I am going to package together and present to the 3 orgs and as I stated before we (myself & the orgs) will be confronted with 2 scenarios 1) we will get together and race as a unified front or in steps to a unified front OR 2) we will continue down our current path!!!! It's that simple!

Now back to the TV deal I think that it needs to be capitalized upon and put the differences aside between the orgs....I don't know if any compromise will be made to OPA or OSS concerning fees and rules but I would hope that maybe something could be structured!!!! After all I think this might be one last shot at reviving our precious sport!!!!

Sean,
Thanks. I appreciate your efforts.
SQ

[Coach]

As JC has reminded everyone this weekend, about qualifying for the National Championship by participating at SBIP races this season, in at least 6 venues.... The door has been swung open for everyone to put aside differences, and jump on this 'TV' train! Participation assures everyone that the best teams are in attendance and in the competition... A single boat, in a category, racing against itself or the clock is an exhibition. This is the path to unification, register and compete! 'Gladiators We Salute You!'

[XtremeRacing]

Well put Steve, if we as racers don't make this work we have no one but ourselves to blame. We are running out of excuses.

[TYPHOON]

The season has already started for most teams and there schedual is in place. I wish that this deal was presented to us all last year and then maybe we could have tryed to work together better than we have. It is a great opertunity hands down! I understand you didnt want to anounce anything until it was in the bag but to spring it on us after your first race is bad timming in my opinion. Frank you keep saying its the tip of the iceburg,again if we dont know what the other 95% of the iceburg looks like then why and how can we get excited. If there is a master plan then lay it out there. It sounds like you are spoon feeding us bits of info. As Steve has posted lets not blow it!! Im afraid if you just sit back and wait to see who will show up we might miss the boat.
All we know is there is 8 one hour shows on CBS. What classes are they showing? Are they looking for a race? How can we sell this to a potential sponsor? How much air time per class? How much of the one hour is racing? Whats the plan? Put this info in a press release please.
MD

[XtremeRacing]

Randy,
I'm trying to get the info. out ASAP nothing will be released until it is done. People from CBS will be in Marathon and we should all have more info. The cable is still being worked out and as soon as it done I'll let you know the channels and times. Right now they r looking to run 3 different cable channels. Possible as many as 100 shows.
It has been non stop conferance call this isnt something that is going to happen over nite.
The Kilo is also in place and done, and as the rest falls into place I'll get it out there.
Beleive me no one is trying to hold anything back.

[Coach]

The season has already started for most teams and there schedual is in place. I wish that this deal was presented to us all last year and then maybe we could have tryed to work together better than we have. It is a great opertunity hands down! I understand you didnt want to anounce anything until it was in the bag but to spring it on us after your first race is bad timming in my opinion. Frank you keep saying its the tip of the iceburg,again if we dont know what the other 95% of the iceburg looks like then why and how can we get excited. If there is a master plan then lay it out there. It sounds like you are spoon feeding us bits of info. As Steve has posted lets not blow it!! Im afraid if you just sit back and wait to see who will show up we might miss the boat.
All we know is there is 8 one hour shows on CBS. What classes are they showing? Are they looking for a race? How can we sell this to a potential sponsor? How much air time per class? How much of the one hour is racing? Whats the plan? Put this info in a press release please.
MD

Well said, perfect questions... The details are critical for everyone, racers, venue communities, sponsors for each aspect.

[Sean Stinson]

Let me throw this into the mix....Since the season has started already will any concessions be made to allow the other orgs to try and be involved as much as their schedules permit??? I remember back when I was racing heavily that to qualify for the worlds a team and boat had to have 2 or 3 starts....Now if you want to qualify you have to race 6 maybe a compromise could be reached regarding this?????

[SVL66]

I may be wrong, but I think the 6 races are to qualify for the national championship, not the worlds.

[XtremeRacing]

The 6 races are for the National Championship, you still only need to race 2 races for the Worlds and with any Org. That was changes a few yrs back to allow teams that were running other Org. to be able to race KW.

[Ratickle]

I may be wrong, but I think the 6 races are to qualify for the national championship, not the worlds.


The 6 races are for the National Championship, you still only need to race 2 races for the Worlds and with any Org. That was changes a few yrs back to allow teams that were running other Org. to be able to race KW.

That is real good to know........


Are the Worlds one of the 8 races to be televised for sure?

[Sean Stinson]

I am sorry you guys are correct haven't had my morning heart attck in a cup yet!!!!

[Sean Stinson]

Does anyone have an idea of a boat count for Marathon?????

[SVL66]

I am sorry you guys are correct haven't had my morning heart attck in a cup yet!!!!

what are you waiting for? I've had 4 20oz cups already

[MANITIE]

Randy...I see your point...but...remember in APBA when we were on the speed channel....we all did not know who was going to be on TV...it came down to the race and were the most exciting parts were to put the show together....remember...we in F1 had more air time then the SUPER Cats...I would think they would put the most exciting parts of racing in the show...

As far as pitching your sponsors...you will never be able to give your sponsors a garantee of air time....the best thing to do is to pitch your sponsors that the race you will be in will be aired on CBS....that needs to be your biggest pitch when appoaching your sponsors...National TV coverage...

Steve....great points that you have made....it may be awhile before everything comes together....but we the racers need to take the oppertunities that have been given to us to bring our sport into more and more homes...fan base is not just who attends the races....we the racers need to look at this as a oppertuinity for all Orgs and all racers....if this show ends up being successfull and brings in more fans...that helps out every Org....not just SBI/APBA...

[XtremeRacing]

It will air on Saturday afternoons so we have a great time slot.

[Sean Stinson]

what are you waiting for? I've had 4 20oz cups already

Ok I am better now....

Heart Attack in a cup is as follows

4 shots of espresso
8 packs sugar in the raw
1 spinner
Spin it hard as you drink it
:sifone::sifone::sifone::sifone::sifone:

[Coach]

:rofl: LOL!

[stevequick]

Ok, I can't possibly answer all the e-mails I have received. Let me just clarify a few things. I have not had a phone conversation with JC so far this year. I don't have any inside information other than what I learned in Miami.
I am anything but SBI's spokesman. As a matter of fact I have had plenty of public disagreements with them. I have been in and around all kinds boatracing longer than most people reading this have been alive.
I have never seen bigger potential or a bigger cluster mess than Offshore. I can assure you the glorious future of the "sport we love" will be engineered by minds far sharper than mine.

But I know a fast horse when I see one and I know when opportunity knocks you might want to answer. If this thing breaks as big as it is beginning to look like it will, everything will change. The changes won't be decided by us or even John Carbonnell. Motorsports experts who track the viewing habits and preferences of thier viewers will dictate what will happen next. I suspect many of the changes we have all discussed on these boards will happen.......overnight.

You can use this discussion to rehash the merits of profit versus non profit boatracing. You can bring up old grudges and slights. You can cling to your ideas of a bright racing future and "The Great Unification" and I hope someday it happens. Or you can do what Lee and I (Team Lowest Budget) are doing. We are going to rally for as long as it takes to see what this really is about. We have the equipment and gas money and we love to race. What else do you need? If it's real we won't have to take it to the next level, we will be taken to the next level.

SQ

[XtremeRacing]

Steve Quick for President.

[H2O Full Throttle]

Hey Guys,

Here is some food for thought. Have been having some discussions with friends who run the WPPA (oversee Class 1 and X Cat) as well as some other overseas groups about where and when to maybe have a true world champs event.

Even though Ron Poli and I have our differences my thoughs are that it would be in the best interest of the parties I am chatting to that OSS/OPA are the preferred series of choice to team up with. Now Class 1 and X Cat boats are meant for Jersey water, so is it possible to hold an event in Jersey somewhere in November time frame (allowing time for boats to race and get back to Dubai for the rest of their series).

I know that Smitty and Augie and crew would show the intl teams some great hospitality and the water could be nice and demanding for the boats and spectators. Now can someone provide some realistic venues and time frames that I can pass on so we can try and make something work.

From the conversations I have had with friends in Australia and NZ there are a number of teams who would be keen to come and race if it was a proper world champs. I know many people who have had run in's with Carbonell and because of that it is a major reason why I am suggesting to friends in Dubai that an SBI event is not an option.

So bottom line guys, whats your thoughts.

Ned

[Sean Stinson]

Great post Ned....As I stated in the email I sent to you regarding an email sent to Mr. Salo on the same subject matter....I am all for this the only question is Carbonell holds the current UIM/APBA Offshore license for events so does that pose a conflict of interest???

[jayboat]

Other than the 'Jersey in November' thing, sounds good.

[AugiePensa]

Jersey in November. Ain't nothing like it!

[Ratickle]

Other than the 'Jersey in November' thing, sounds good.


Jersey in November. Ain't nothing like it!

Agreed....:ack2:

[Pete B]

Hey Guys,

Here is some food for thought. Have been having some discussions with friends who run the WPPA (oversee Class 1 and X Cat) as well as some other overseas groups about where and when to maybe have a true world champs event.

Even though Ron Poli and I have our differences my thoughs are that it would be in the best interest of the parties I am chatting to that OSS/OPA are the preferred series of choice to team up with. Now Class 1 and X Cat boats are meant for Jersey water, so is it possible to hold an event in Jersey somewhere in November time frame (allowing time for boats to race and get back to Dubai for the rest of their series).

I know that Smitty and Augie and crew would show the intl teams some great hospitality and the water could be nice and demanding for the boats and spectators. Now can someone provide some realistic venues and time frames that I can pass on so we can try and make something work.

From the conversations I have had with friends in Australia and NZ there are a number of teams who would be keen to come and race if it was a proper world champs. I know many people who have had run in's with Carbonell and because of that it is a major reason why I am suggesting to friends in Dubai that an SBI event is not an option.

So bottom line guys, whats your thoughts.

Ned

Jupiter, Florida in Late OCT, sponsored by GEICO, should be a true offshore throw down.!!!

[Wahoo 214]

Point Pleasant, with it's history, would be an excellent rough water site. But November? If it were a true World Championship with Class 1, X cat, P1 and the US teams, how could a team not go? We would find a way if possible.

[ThrottleUp Props]

Jersey in November...sounds cold.

Julie

[Ted]

Everyone is going to need a defroster on the boat :D

[Sean Stinson]

The 89 Worlds were in Jersey so what is different now from then??????

[MarylandMark]

About 150 boats........

:biggrinjester:

Global Warming- NJ it is better now in Nov

Think cold, dense air.. Throttle'm hard boys!!

[ThrottleUp Props]

Cold air equals fast lap times!

Julie

[Geronimo36]

Randy...I see your point...but...remember in APBA when we were on the speed channel....we all did not know who was going to be on TV...it came down to the race and were the most exciting parts were to put the show together....remember...we in F1 had more air time then the SUPER Cats...I would think they would put the most exciting parts of racing in the show...

As far as pitching your sponsors...you will never be able to give your sponsors a garantee of air time....the best thing to do is to pitch your sponsors that the race you will be in will be aired on CBS....that needs to be your biggest pitch when appoaching your sponsors...National TV coverage......

I agree, this was the reason my CEO decided not to continue any sponsorship after co-sponsoring the SCL Team Tellium boat that won the world title.

With more TV airtime we could have gotten our name out in a national forum. The only real benefit we saw from sponsorship was the ability to be able to ride in the support copter and free rooms in key-west. Other than that we saw no revenue generation from the sponsorship. :(

Not trying to pile on but just showing my side from a sponsor perspective because I put the deal together for the company.

Frank

[MANITIE]

Frank....its good to here from teams who have brought in sponsors...they can give the input that is really needed becasue they have made the pitches to sponsors and they know what they are looking for....

[Geronimo36]

Frank....its good to here from teams who have brought in sponsors...they can give the input that is really needed becasue they have made the pitches to sponsors and they know what they are looking for....

No problem!!

Before sponsoring the boat, the CEO and myself were in talks about him buying a boat and racing in F2 but after I presented the sponsorship deal my boss figured it was much cheaper to sponsor than race and the notion of possible revenue generation was icing on the cake!

I'm my opinion the sponsors will flock if someone takes on the challenge of helping to make it more profitable! :drool5:

Frank

[XtremeRacing]

Frank ,
You are correct,from the calls and email SBI is getting there is a lot of interest still out there. I think they have been waiting for the right time and Ave.

[Coach]

Get the knitty gritty out on the table...

Excellent Stuff!

[Top Banana]

Rich....just for the sake of pushing this to the breaking point.......One Class.

If we make it too exotic, 50 foot cats with turbines, you rule out almost everyone, if we make it too simple, 20 foot deep vees with 100HP outboards, who will get excited from either a competitors or sponsors point of view?

So One Class...just like F1..... or Winston Cup ......(Sprint Cup means dirt cars to me)

What size and design of boat is allowed?

What kind of engine and drive system, so no one gets it all locked up?

If they are all equal and fast enough to be challenging, but not fast enough to get a fatality a season....and if everyone could leave their egos on the dock....it MIGHT, just might have a chance.

[stevequick]

Random thoughts:

This is exactly what the TV producers faced in every race for the past 25 years. Each race boat team and class are convinced that they are more exciting than anyone else. Please consider the following:

1.Each helicopter/camera team costs quite a bit of money, since the sport can't afford more than 2 or 3 at an event, the odds are that most of your "money shots" will occur with no camera pointed in your direction. While you can certainly increase the number of cameras that cost to cover every boat for the entire race is prohibitive. On boards help but there is a cost there as well in editing and shot sheets.

2. The concept of showing "The most exciting parts" when dealing with 8-10-12 classes is NOT good television for the average viewer and only confuses him or her. Bottom line the only thing better than showing two classes...is showing one class.

3. You may think that you are down right amazing after vaulting 15-20 feet in the air.... but without a competition context it means nothing to the average snook (not to mention the fact that your props are out of the water and therefore your horsepower is not pushing you forward). In addition video flattens waves and also the height of your air unless the pilot and camera man get into some hairy NNRT like positions. At the end of the day nothing you could do with an F-1 boat comes close to those Extreme Motorcycle jumping guys anyway. The point is, to misquote a political pundit "It's about the racing, stupid!".

4. Interviews and personality development is a major piece as well. For a number of years (20) I had the role of conducting most of the pre and post race interviews for the various networks (pretty good feat considering I also flew all of the races to create the story, and had to race to and from the airport). The problem was always the same.... bland vanilla comments or over the top screaming. Very few people gave good candid comments or referred to other racers with anything but platitudes. "I love good ol' Ralph...He's a great competitor" is something that nobody wants to watch or hear. "Ralph is crafty and I wonder if his lower units will pass inspection"...is LOT more interesting...but nobody said it. Watch Tony Stewart...He's a genius at creating interest. .... or Michael Waltrip, who has low talent but high fan appeal. The point is neither of these guys are constantly shouting "In your face" nonsense, but both of them glue people to the tube and speak candidly to the camera. The sport needs good guys and bad guys but most of all it needs people who consistently race each other and who become familiar to the viewer. Again, you can't develop those relationships with a bunch of classes separating the key players.

As I read this thread I see the same old issue. Guys in 12 classes all talking about getting sponsorships based on TV coverage..... This why you have burned through so many corporate backers....... Because there is not enough bang for the buck if you don't solve the competition model....before....you do anything else.


This is not the first time that Offshore has been on TV in fact it has been on for almost 30 years and on at least 8 networks..........Something has to change because doing the same things will yield the same result.

T2x

Now we are getting somewhere. Let's make sure the people who need to hear this, hear it.
SQ

[Ratickle]

I'm trying to stay out of your thread but,

if we want to make it work well, Rich has a very good point. One of the things I've always wondered from a production standpoint. Why doesn't every chopper out there have a roaming TV guy on it with a live link to a big screen back at the dock/pit area.

The choppers are there anyway. The technology certainly exists. What has been the sticking point and would the boat owners allow camera men in their rigs for these events?

You give Rich that much to work with and I guarantee good results for a TV show. Hell, he can add the voice later.....

Just have to find someone to argue with him.. Any volunteers???

[XtremeRacing]

From what i understand CBS will have their own talent doing the play by play, not sure who yet. We hope to find out more in Marathin, stay tune.

[Sean Stinson]

I am going to try and make it to Marathon....That week is very tough for me but I will try to be there!!!!

[MANITIE]

Random thoughts:

This is exactly what the TV producers faced in every race for the past 25 years. Each race boat team and class are convinced that they are more exciting than anyone else. Please consider the following:

1.Each helicopter/camera team costs quite a bit of money, since the sport can't afford more than 2 or 3 at an event, the odds are that most of your "money shots" will occur with no camera pointed in your direction. While you can certainly increase the number of cameras that cost to cover every boat for the entire race is prohibitive. On boards help but there is a cost there as well in editing and shot sheets.

2. The concept of showing "The most exciting parts" when dealing with 8-10-12 classes is NOT good television for the average viewer and only confuses him or her. Bottom line the only thing better than showing two classes...is showing one class.

3. You may think that you are down right amazing after vaulting 15-20 feet in the air.... but without a competition context it means nothing to the average snook (not to mention the fact that your props are out of the water and therefore your horsepower is not pushing you forward). In addition video flattens waves and also the height of your air unless the pilot and camera man get into some hairy NNRT like positions. At the end of the day nothing you could do with an F-1 boat comes close to those Extreme Motorcycle jumping guys anyway. The point is, to misquote a political pundit "It's about the racing, stupid!".

4. Interviews and personality development is a major piece as well. For a number of years (20) I had the role of conducting most of the pre and post race interviews for the various networks (pretty good feat considering I also flew all of the races to create the story, and had to race to and from the airport). The problem was always the same.... bland vanilla comments or over the top screaming. Very few people gave good candid comments or referred to other racers with anything but platitudes. "I love good ol' Ralph...He's a great competitor" is something that nobody wants to watch or hear. "Ralph is crafty and I wonder if his lower units will pass inspection"...is LOT more interesting...but nobody said it. Watch Tony Stewart...He's a genius at creating interest. .... or Michael Waltrip, who has low talent but high fan appeal. The point is neither of these guys are constantly shouting "In your face" nonsense, but both of them glue people to the tube and speak candidly to the camera. The sport needs good guys and bad guys but most of all it needs people who consistently race each other and who become familiar to the viewer. Again, you can't develop those relationships with a bunch of classes separating the key players.

As I read this thread I see the same old issue. Guys in 12 classes all talking about getting sponsorships based on TV coverage..... This why you have burned through so many corporate backers....... Because there is not enough bang for the buck if you don't solve the competition model....before....you do anything else.


This is not the first time that Offshore has been on TV in fact it has been on for almost 30 years and on at least 8 networks..........Something has to change because doing the same things will yield the same result.

T2x


Rich....in the perfect world that would be great...maybe 3 or 4 classes...but you have been around this sport for a long time and have seen a lot......no Org can get the 10 -15 boat count in 3 to 4 classes.... We all agree with you, that less class's and more boats per class is the answer for compitition and the sport....but as you can see...this has not had much success over the years....for that to happen...the racers would have to committ to building a boat to fit one of the 3 classes only...most teams with money are building the big cats...big HP or Turbines....the small guys can't afford to buy a new boat....not to mention would have to sell there current boat in this crazy market....I don't see any Org thats going to abanded there current teams that have been supporting there org to take there class away from them....

There is no good answer to this...other then to work at what we have here in todays Offshore...personally...all we can do is show up an race...and remember to put on a show for the fans and promote our team and sport the best we can...

[stevequick]

I am going to try and make it to Marathon....That week is very tough for me but I will try to be there!!!!
Sean,
No pressure, but it sure would be great to have an unbiased appraisal of the TV situation. It's looking a lot like a duck. I'm sure many SO'ers would like to know if you think it is quacking like one. I hear what's up and what's next will be discussed.
SQ

[SHARKEY-IMAGES]

Hey Guys,

Here is some food for thought. Have been having some discussions with friends who run the WPPA (oversee Class 1 and X Cat) as well as some other overseas groups about where and when to maybe have a true world champs event.

Even though Ron Poli and I have our differences my thoughs are that it would be in the best interest of the parties I am chatting to that OSS/OPA are the preferred series of choice to team up with. Now Class 1 and X Cat boats are meant for Jersey water, so is it possible to hold an event in Jersey somewhere in November time frame (allowing time for boats to race and get back to Dubai for the rest of their series).

I know that Smitty and Augie and crew would show the intl teams some great hospitality and the water could be nice and demanding for the boats and spectators. Now can someone provide some realistic venues and time frames that I can pass on so we can try and make something work.

From the conversations I have had with friends in Australia and NZ there are a number of teams who would be keen to come and race if it was a proper world champs. I know many people who have had run in's with Carbonell and because of that it is a major reason why I am suggesting to friends in Dubai that an SBI event is not an option.

So bottom line guys, whats your thoughts.

Ned

Well Ned,

I raced in the World Championships in Atlantic City, New Jersey in October, 1989 .
http://sharkeyimages.zenfolio.com/img/v1/p618187512-4.jpg

1st thing came to my mind was Hyperthermia should something go wrong. In fact I wore a Wetsuit just in case... :ack2:
October was pushing it. The year before was 3rd week in Sept which was not bad.
As Pete B said, Jupitor, Fl is already in the works and it is warm there.
I would expect some kind of seas there as well during the fall months.
I am sure the winds will always be blowing.

Just a thought ! :sifone:

[Ratickle]

From what i understand CBS will have their own talent doing the play by play, not sure who yet. We hope to find out more in Marathin, stay tune.

But what about having the team helicopters also have a cameraman? Possible? A lot more footage to choose from and edit.

[XtremeRacing]

They r also talking about on boards, all good ideas and options.

[Coach]

I helped Orange Beach get the first two races established... the APBA Offshore race in the fall of 2003 was a racing in paradise experience for everyone!

Ray

[H2O Full Throttle]

Hey Guys,

How about having Orange Beach as a location for a unified Class 1, X Cat, OSS, OPA worlds event.

Thoughts on this.

Ned

[TYPHOON]

Ned its already happening except its in Jupitor Florida. Havent you heard?
MD:26:

[TYPHOON]

And Geico is sponsoring it and after all they have done for us who wouldnt show there apreaciation and suport his race. I would hate to be the team on the list that didnt show. After all they have sponsored a number of boat and feed many of our teams and family and oh yeh given out jackets and shirts and much ,much more. Jupitor worlds be there!!!!!
MD

[Coach]

Good point... noted.

[Ratickle]

Ned its already happening except its in Jupitor Florida. Havent you heard?
MD:26:

The orgs have agreed? It fits into the open time frame for Wppa and OPA?

[Sean Stinson]

Well well well what a day I have had...and I feel like everyone to day had a very positive attitude for a TRUE unified Worlds....Stay tuned as I am a bit hesitant until after a couple more talks and a sitdown with parties that I met with TODAY to post anything that might be construed as an announcement....All I will say is that the people that I conversed with today all want the same thing....An unified Worlds!!!! Ned I will send you an email later today!!! I am bushed, I need a drink, and I need to relax for a moment!!! I feel like we took the first babystep today!!!!!

[ThrottleUp Props]

[QUOTE=Ratickle;217928]The orgs have agreed? It fits into the open time frame for Wppa and OPA?[/QUOTE

What class of the WPPA boats are being referred to? Class one races thru the weekend of Dec 12th. X-Cat may be racing in December as well after racing in Italy in Sept. What is the time frame your looking at Ned? Shipping boats to the US is a tall order (time).

Julie

[DPT MOTORSPORTS]

I most definately like where this is heading. Not everyone may be happy with the final result but it is for the sport in general and what may help to take it back to where it needs to be.

I DEEPLY COMMEND ALL THE PARTIES WHO HAVE BEEN LOOKING A WORKING TO MAKE THIS A REALITY!!!!

KEEP UP THE HARD WORK,

DPT
:cool::cool:

[Sean Stinson]

[QUOTE=Ratickle;217928]The orgs have agreed? It fits into the open time frame for Wppa and OPA?[/QUOTE

What class of the WPPA boats are being referred to? Class one races thru the weekend of Dec 12th. X-Cat may be racing in December as well after racing in Italy in Sept. What is the time frame your looking at Ned? Shipping boats to the US is a tall order (time).

Julie

I can step in just a bit here Julie.....Lines of communication are being opened with Class 1 and X Cat to do a true unified worlds....No dates have been tossed around as of yet but just lines of communication!!! Ned correct me if I have anything wrong or if you have any new updates as of yesterday!!!

[SHARKEY-IMAGES]

Sean, I truly appreciate your efforts.

I hope all works out!

[Sean Stinson]

Thanks Sharkey... I am going to give it my very best shot so far I think that everyone that I have talked with has been very accomodating and has voiced their concerns and has been willing to start with a Unified World Championship

[F1-00 Racing]

And Geico is sponsoring it and after all they have done for us who wouldnt show there apreaciation and suport his race. I would hate to be the team on the list that didnt show. After all they have sponsored a number of boat and feed many of our teams and family and oh yeh given out jackets and shirts and much ,much more. Jupitor worlds be there!!!!!
MD

Randy,

I refuse to argue with you, Mr Haggin has done some wonderful things for us and personally for my team in particular. I need your advise, however. My current sponsor for the rest of the year sees no demographical merit in racing Jupiter. Please provide me with the ammunition to go back to them so I can race there. There is no confirmed tv or anything to go to them with at this point. Please help me!

I tryed already the fact that my mother graduated Jupiter HS in the 60's, after NJ we moved to Tequesta(town connected to Jup on the north side) and lived on the North West Fork of the Loxahatchee River, where I graduated HS. I know every inch of that water like the back of my hand. I have family and close friends that still are there that would love to come and support my team.

I love Jupiter and would love to race there, please help me justify the reasons to go. I sure dont want to be on that list you talk about, it terrifies me to even think about it.

Trent

[SHARKEY-IMAGES]

I think you already answered your own questions.

This should be justification enough. :sifone:


Mr Haggin has done some wonderful things for us and personally for my team in particular.

I know every inch of that water like the back of my hand.

I have family and close friends that still are there that would love to come and support my team.

I love Jupiter and would love to race there

Trent

I would explain to your current sponsor that doing the Jupitor race is if nothing more than you giving the support to the one that helped you and much of the sport of offshore when help was desperately needed.

They just may think of you as a better person for doing so even if it meant to hold a car wash event to help raise money to get you to the race providing your current sponsor did not want to pay for that race. :sifone:

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

My current sponsor for the rest of the year sees no demographical merit in racing Jupiter.
Trent

Trent, Help me understand who are you talking about. I just looked at TNT racing.com . I didn't see any sponsor listed I saw racing partners and Geico was shown numerous times.

[H2O Full Throttle]

Just to clarify a few points.

WPPA and Class 1 havent made any commitments to Jupiter yet Typhoon.

The Class 1 boats are in Italy in the beginning of October and then Abu Dhabi late November. I have emailed marco, Saeed, Sid and Rory to see what their thoughts are as they have the final say. Pasquale will have to look at the logistics of seeing if it can happen.

Now while would also love to see this happen for this year I doubt it will. Next year however is a different story. It takes a LOT of organsation to move all the teams, the boats, the trucks, the people and equipment from one venue to the other, as well as the teams having the budget to do it. Pasquale does an awesome job of logistics but throwing the USA into the mix at the last minute would be next to impossible in my opinion.

As Sean will tell you emails are going between everyone and there is no way this cant be made to happen for 2010 and for X Cat to be included that will most certainly be the case as you are talking about taking 22+ boats from Middle East to USA and back.

Anyway this is just to keep everyone in the loop. No reason 2010 cant be the Worlds of all Worlds.

Maybe those who have been in the email loop could make plans to attend a Class 1 race and that way we could all have a sit down and round table the ideas and plans.

Ned

[F1-00 Racing]

Trent, Help me understand who are you talking about. I just looked at TNT racing.com . I didn't see any sponsor listed I saw racing partners and Geico was shown numerous times.

No problem Jim,

We have not announced our current sponsors(3, so far) for this season as of yet, even though they are signed and put to bed(novel concept huh?). At this time they are still under review as per the new SBI guidelines and our plan is to announce after the Marathon race in order to debut in Ft Lauderdale. We are also in a scramble to get our new boat ready in time. I chose to list Geico/AMF as I will try to carry an "AMF" decal on my boat(pending their approval and review of my static display insurance policy) as a thank you for 2007. As more sponsors/advertising partners come on board obviously they will go in priority of who is paying the most, will get the most billing and the ones you see now will drop off. Dont worry Jim, I'll PM you right b4 I publish our announcements so you will be the first to know, what I'm doing....

Trent

[XtremeRacing]

Ned,
Who is picking up the cost for the race??

[F1-00 Racing]

I think you already answered your own questions.

This should be justification enough. :sifone:



I would explain to your current sponsor that doing the Jupitor race is if nothing more than you giving the support to the one that helped you and much of the sport of offshore when help was desperately needed.

They just may think of you as a better person for doing so even if it meant to hold a car wash event to help raise money to get you to the race providing your current sponsor did not want to pay for that race. :sifone:

I understand Tim, the issues that rare their ugly head is that I made a decision in my life to start a new family. I also made the decision if there is sponsorship money, I will race, if not, the boats will stay parked. I am taking every dime I have and spending it on my son to provide him with everything possible in hopes that he becomes a better man than I( I know I know, he doesnt have far to go:03:) I have explained all the ties that I have to Jupiter(with an e) and as I said above they see no demographical merit.

I was merely asking Randy for help, since he is on the BOD that could give me some insight into being able to race there. I have already booked my rooms as to lack of hotels in near proximity to the pits and race course. I have to have something to load my gun with and give it one last try before they get agravated and take the others races with demographical merit(CBS) off my schedule. Randy just scared me though with mention of the list, I dont think I could live if I was on it.

Trent

[H2O Full Throttle]

Extreme - All that part of it hasnt been discussed at length as at the moment no decision has even been made if it is feasible to include FL in that time frame. Couple of people are looking at sponsors, thats all I can mention. There are many options that will need to be considered and bottom line it will be Saeed and Marco who make the final decision.

Ned

[Coach]

Make this happen guys...

I asked a top guy to do this last fall...

The point is, like any other major international competition, have the venue sites compete for the event hosting. Compete between the venue location communities, letting each site show the reasons why and how they best accommodate the activities, on every level and every element....

Getting professional about this (location qualifying) is a step in the respectability direction!

Coach

[TYPHOON]

Trent I am sorry it wont work out for you. You should only race where its best for you. I cant help you and your sponsor make any dissions. I will tell Hagen and the Geico crew you gave it your best shot but couldnt justify the effort. Thanks again for being so honest and open with us all its truly a pleasure reading your post.
You bestis friend Candy

[phragle]

The great Baraon Von Schwartz said he is in.

[Coach]

From a venue developer's perspective though, having a site capable of accommodating a spectacle the magnitude and the likes of which, a major international invitational event, drawing in spectators from all over the world, media, and everything else combined. We need to consider how to have 100 to 150 thousand spectators, on the shore and another 15 to 20 thousand in the water in spectator boats.

We did that in Orange Beach in 2003! There was a report of thousands of vehicles stuck in traffic... This is a location that has several routes in and out of it! We all can agree what an impact Orange Beach has had on improving offshore powerboat racing awareness!

Matt between you and me neighbor, Clearwater Beach should be in this consideration as well. Major events need major communities around them to succeed on every level.


Coach

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

Coach, I raced in Orange beach in '03. I enjoyed it and love the place. I was there last year too. Shame is they dropped the ball this year with OSS.

It is my understanding you made a deal with OSS to promote OSS to race sites for a fee. What happened? Why is it the cities you are associated with this year are the same cities OSS had a problem with? Is it a coincidence? Are you now claiming to be for everyone? Have you made deals with other orgs? Are you playing everyone against each other for your benefit? Please explain your motivation here?

[XtremeRacing]

Ned,

I am curious when you speak to these people over sea's about racing in the US who do you say you r representing from the United States?
Doesn't Class 1 run under the UIM banner?

[XtremeRacing]

Ray,
I agree,thats why SBI is makeing Clear Water Beach the National Race. SBI had 3 other cities that wanted the race. SBI felt CWB was the right city for an event this size.

[Sean Stinson]

Ned,

I am curious when you speak to these people over sea's about racing in the US who do you say you r representing from the United States?
Don't Class 1 run under the UIM banner?

Negative Class 1 races under WPPA.....Easy with the baiting!!!!!

[XtremeRacing]

Sean,
You might want to like at their web. site looks like it say UIM to me.

[ThrottleUp Props]

Here is the Web site for Class One: I thought they were UIM as well.

http://www.class-1.com/index.asp

On the right hand side it shows partners with the WPPA, IOTA and UIM.

Julie

[Coach]

My agenda is for the love of the sport...

The renewed interest in seeing OB get back on track, is out of respect for Gary Nichols and realizing whoever is the org. involved in racing at OB, OB should have a powerboat race in the very fabric of there community character and makeup! Pensacola doesn't say, OH, sorry 'Blue Angels' there's just not enough for your air show this year... It's in the fabric of the community at large, for the Blue Angels to have air shows there.

No one, no one dared scratch on suggesting a powerboat race should be occuring on Clearwater Beach, until I stuck my neck out, late last August. I called JC first, then started rallying support from powerboat associations, talked with Stu, he had me s/w Ron P. and off the whole bouncing ball went. Someone at the Chamber sandbagged me and went direct with JC... I turned my attention on seeing what could happen with OSS.

It came down to the Mayor saying absolutely "no way", this would get supported for April, and I passed the word onto Ron P. who also knew, I always wanted to get a fall event setup! So I informed him of my intent to find a fall event, and called JC, who was disengaged by the Chamber 'sandbagger', in December. Who never returned phone calls or followed up...

I called JC the week of Panama City's last few days of renewal opportunity... we waited that out and on Jan. 25th, 2009, I signed the letter of intent with JC, to hold the National Championships in Clearwater Beach, Oct 2nd thru the 4th. I can send you a PDF copy....

In the meatime as if on cue, Ron P. did the best he could to compete on the situation, fair enough, and he got into the city powers to be, and worked up a July proposed date. It's all good to me... powerboat racing belongs on Clearwater Beach, all of you, everyone interested.

Now, getting all this who get's the credit, put to rest, is critical, otherwise it's such a fiasco, and we're all looking like 'J... A....'! We should be throwing in with each other, instead of all the games.

Very Sincerely Powerboat Racing Family:

I have no regrets for having dedicated so many hours and so much energy to seeing Orange Beach established, in support Of Gary's dream, back in 03. I have no regrets putting that same committment into seeing this through at Clearwater Beach for powerboat racing at large...

Ray Pusillo
(Coach)

PS: To the person who asked what I've been doing in the meantime, recovering from two major hurricane events, one that landed in my neighborhood, and the other just down the road! Completely destroyed!

[XtremeRacing]

Sean,
Not trying to bait anyone just want to keep the facts straight, I don't think you would want to have people beleive something that isn't true.
Beleive it or not there are tons of fans on there that don't know any better and believe in what to post or say .
My question to Ned was a far question, I have some concerns of what is being said and if he is rep. the United States racers.

[Ratickle]

Thanks Ray. I'm sure you'll get more questions though....:)

[Ratickle]

The way I understand it;

UIM does not license WPPA but works with them currently. I believe there is still some friction there.

UIM does sanction APBA who sanctions SBI.

WPPA does all of X Cat and Class 1.

And I believe John Haggin sits on the WPPA council as the US rep?

The question, is the Key West Worlds, or another race in there, give WPPA enough time to come over after their October Race and go back for their late November race?

Isn't XCat done for the year?

How much of this is wrong? Probably some...

[Sean Stinson]

Sean,
Not trying to bait anyone just want to keep the facts straight, I don't think you would want to have people beleive something that isn't true.
Beleive it or not there are tons of fans on there that don't know any better and believe in what to post or say .
My question to Ned was a far question, I have some concerns of what is being said and if he is rep. the United States racers.

Ned and I have been trading emails with Class 1 who is under the banner of WPPA who recently have just reestablished a working relationship with UIM please call me 609 317 5466 if you would like to discuss it further I have my own agenda here and that is to unify all of you into one united front or die trying!!!!

[ThrottleUp Props]

That is exactly what I thought Sean. We need to be respectful of the relationship status of the UIM and WPPA.

Julie

[Coach]

Ray,
I agree,thats why SBI is makeing Clear Water Beach the National Race. SBI had 3 other cities that wanted the race. SBI felt CWB was the right city for an event this size.

That this is here in this thread is all the more appropriate...

Ray

[F1-00 Racing]

Trent I am sorry it wont work out for you. You should only race where its best for you. I cant help you and your sponsor make any dissions. I will tell Hagen and the Geico crew you gave it your best shot but couldnt justify the effort. Thanks again for being so honest and open with us all its truly a pleasure reading your post.
You bestis friend Candy

I am sorry also, I just thought you were the one that could help, being that you have pointed out that I am nobody and you are on the BOD. I appreciate that you chose not to wave a carrot in front of me only to have it crushed and taken away at the last minute. I do however ask one favor, even though you are my bestis friend, Haggin has my number if he has any questions(hes even called it a time or two), please dont speak for my team or me. I am a big boy with big boy pants and can speak for my team quite fine.

Please win this weekend, its been a long time coming and with all the effort you have put in, you deserve it. Most importantly be safe.

Trent

[H2O Full Throttle]

Extreme - I am not representing anyone or anything in the USA. Bottom line is I have been involved with Class 1 for about 16 years and know all of the key people there and attend as many Class 1 races as I can.

I was asked by Sean to talk to friends I have in the WPPA and Class 1 and see if I could help get the ball rolling so I did and the lines of comms are now open with Sean and all the others on the email group we have going.

Since you have an issue with me that I seem to be "representing" your racers then I am more than happy to walk away from what I am doing and let you contiunue with it. I have more than enough to do with my various magazines so this is one less thing to take up my time.

For those asking about the issues with UIM and WPPA its plain and simple. Saeed Harib from DIMC basically got Class 1 going from the start and when the last chairman of UIM (Frohling) started with less than savoury business practices Saeed told him that enough was enough and they started WPPA. IOTA then contracted WPPA to run the Class 1 series and UIM had absolutely nothing to do with it for quite a while. Then Chiuli took over from Frohling as head of UIM and started to mend some bridges. Saeed then came to an understanding with Chiuli whereby WPPA is affiliated to the UIM, nothing more, and WPPA still run Class 1 and also X Cat.

Ratickle - you are close to right on most of your points. However Haggin was on the WPPA board but hasnt really been involved with them since the beginning. Haggin wanted Class 1 to have a turbine class but since that was never going to happen I think he lost interest and I dont blame him. He has a great venue for what he is doing right there in his own backyard.

X Cat calendar is just about finalised and I got an email from Sid yesterday saying they are having 7 races - 2 in Abu Dhabi, 2 in Dubai, 2 in Fujeirah and 1 in Doha. There will be new safety and race formats announced soon.

As I said to Sean the logistics of moving the Class 1 operation is huge and they usually charter a ro ro boat to move everything and if you include the X cat boats in here you are talking a total of about 35 boats all up, along with tow vehicles etc etc so its not an easy task. My gut feeling is it will be too soon to squeeze another race in there in the USA as working in with shipping schedules and routes at short notice is impossible and they have other races in Europe and Dubai already planned. So my suggestion is work on making it happen for the following year and the chances are about 90% that it would come together.

So there is some info for you.

Extreme - feel free to take over and represent all your USA racers, balls in your court.

Ciao all.

Ned

[XtremeRacing]

Ned,

Thanks that anwser my question. You are not representing anyone from the United state.

Not sure what the thing was about you taking pics for 16 yrs, but i've been involved in Offshore for over 20 yrs so do I win a prize.

[H2O Full Throttle]

Extreme - You seem to have a real issue with me so you know what, feel free to run with what I have started and you can represent all your fellow racers.

And in regards to your sarcastic comment about my 16 years if you read the post it says I was using my duration associated with Class 1 and its contacts to help YOUR sport, not mine. But with an attitude like yours seems like you dont need any help so am more than willing to oblige and walk away from helping make this happen.

Good luck as you seem to have made great leaps and bounds over the last decade.

Bye.

Ned

[XtremeRacing]

Ned,
I dont have any issues with you, I dont even know you. All i did was ask a question sorry if that makes you think I have issues with you. You anwser it and I thanked you. Were you uncomfortable with me asking that question?? Never said I wanted to run with anything, again I just asked a question.

[Sean Stinson]

I am only going to say this ONE MORE TIME....I have ONE agenda and thats to unify this sport WORLD WIDE....I am the guy that has initaiated all this contact amongst all the different sanctioning bodies...Ned was doing a favor for me to help the lines of communication with Europe....I owe him huge for what he did he has now bowed out of the picture....I really wanted him to be involved....As I have stated to all parties I have NO allegiance to any Org...I have opened up communication with all of them...The only person I have not talked to is John Carbonell I know his position I am going to talk to him in Marathon who knows he may throw me out of his pits I dont think so but he may!!!!

So if someone comes on here about unifying I probably made some type of point of contact with them....Please keep this cordial and beneficial....Make absolutely sure that the post cannot be construed as sarcastic my job is hard enough juggling all this stuff!!!!

Our sport has suffered enough now is the time to grow it to something exciting and extreme.......

[Coach]

Stay the course, everyone...

[AugiePensa]

Sean, don't take any $hit from any of them! Stand your ground. Hey Ned, wazzup?

[stevequick]

"Please keep this cordial and beneficial....Make absolutely sure that the post cannot be construed as sarcastic"

"Our sport has suffered enough now is the time to grow it "

Sean,
Just to clarify. Are we keeping it positive in this thread, the Racing section or the entire site?
Does member status and designation allow the posting of primarily negative and sarcastic posts?
Let's say I had the advantage of being involved in and profiting from Offshore when the dream was alive and well.
Does that experience grant me carte blanche here to belittle every new idea? Say in 20 years I reached Iconic status. Would it be OK if the words I posted on a regular basis were the very same that most Poker Runners repeat when asked why they don't race?
If I were actually able to stop people from even trying to race or improve racing by consistently and eloquently reinforcing the futility of it. Would that be acceptable?
Just wanted to clarify. I got your message I'll call you later today.
SQ

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

"Please keep this cordial and beneficial....Make absolutely sure that the post cannot be construed as sarcastic"

"Our sport has suffered enough now is the time to grow it "


SQ

Hear Hear.:smash:

Some personal feelings and opinions are best kept to ourselves.

[Coach]

Bravo!

[Sean Stinson]

"Please keep this cordial and beneficial....Make absolutely sure that the post cannot be construed as sarcastic"

"Our sport has suffered enough now is the time to grow it "

Sean,
Just to clarify. Are we keeping it positive in this thread, the Racing section or the entire site?
Does member status and designation allow the posting of primarily negative and sarcastic posts?
Let's say I had the advantage of being involved in and profiting from Offshore when the dream was alive and well.
Does that experience grant me carte blanche here to belittle every new idea? Say in 20 years I reached Iconic status. Would it be OK if the words I posted on a regular basis were the very same that most Poker Runners repeat when asked why they don't race?
If I were actually able to stop people from even trying to race or improve racing by consistently and eloquently reinforcing the futility of it. Would that be acceptable?
Just wanted to clarify. I got your message I'll call you later today.
SQ

No I am trying to keep the negativity out of it....The ICONs have been there done that and have seen it all.... I am the guy that has had more curves thrown at him than I would have liked ...So whenever I see the oppurtunity for a curve to even have a possibility of arising I try to stop it!!! I was a bit upset that something happened yesterday which caused another rift....Now with that being said by all means speak your mind we wont censor you if it gets out of line the admins will step in I am sure.....The potential curve yesterday was about representation and what org was running what and who was speaking for who....So with all my confused thought process we need to have a beneficial and eloquant conversation that will further our sport....I am looking forward to meeting everyone in Marathon....

Steve I look forward to chatting later today

[Sean Stinson]

Sean, don't take any $hit from any of them! Stand your ground. Hey Ned, wazzup?

Thanks Augie I appreciate it!!!!

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

Rich there is not a conflict of dates for Clearwater.

I have posted every ones schedule in a Forum Events Calender. Tab near top left corner of screen.

[stevequick]

Rich,

You are the King of negativity.
If I listened to the historical perspectives of people like you I would have a trade, instead of Jewelry Stores. Occasionally a little luck and a positive attitude can and has created success.
It has to start somewhere.
Reading your last post gave me a whole new respect for Gino, Frank, Randy, Sean and a few others. I struggle sometimes to understand what they are saying, but rarely do I question why they are here. They are trying to make it better.
They deserve a chance at it. You had yours.

[Sean Stinson]

Rich,

You are the King of negativity.
If I listened to the historical perspectives of people like you I would have a trade, instead of Jewelry Stores. Occasionally a little luck and a positive attitude can and has created success.
It has to start somewhere.
Reading your last post gave me a whole new respect for Gino, Frank, Randy, Sean and a few others. I struggle sometimes to understand what they are saying, but rarely do I question why they are here. They are trying to make it better.
They deserve a chance at it. You had yours.

It's no secret that I at times sound somewhat confused...I think it is from tipping the boat over one too many times!!!!! Steve I have some free time right now if you can give me a call!!!!

[ThrottleUp Props]

Rich there is not a conflict of dates for Clearwater.

I have posted every ones schedule in a Forum Events Calender. Tab near top left corner of screen.

Very COOL Jim! Thanks, it will be new go to calander!

Julie

[stevequick]

It's no secret that I at times sound somewhat confused...I think it is from tipping the boat over one too many times!!!!! Steve I have some free time right now if you can give me a call!!!!

Done.
Best of luck Sean.
SQ

[Sean Stinson]

Done.
Best of luck Sean.
SQ

Thanks Steve I appreciate that!!!!!

[TYPHOON]

WOW, You know what, I bet this board gets real quiet by tommarow night. And you know why? Beacause we will all be RACING somewhere. Have a great weekend all, I am out of here. My head hurts reading all this:26:
MD

[Pat D]

WOW, You know what, I bet this board gets real quiet by tommarow night. And you know why? Beacause we will all be RACING somewhere. Have a great weekend all, I am out of here. My head hurts reading all this:26:
MD

I knew we could do it..........WE AGREE ON SOMETHING.....:) Pat D.

[SVL66]

My head hurts reading all this:26:
MD

Are You sure its not the booze?

[XtremeRacing]

Randy,
Good luck be safe....Bring home the FLAG.

[TGC-32]

Granted I haven't raced in a few years, so maybe it isn't my place to comment, but in support of T2x there is a LOT to be learned if people would just listen to what he is saying. I believe his criticisms are directed at ideas that have proved flawed in the past. "Those that don't learn from history are destined to repeat it".

T2x is spot on in that you have to fix the competiton model first before you can confidently expect that you have a product that any one other than the racers themselves will be interested in watching.

I wish nothing but the best for this crazy sport that we all love so passionately, but I've seen this movie more than once, and I know how it ends.....

Tom
Total Marine

[Sean Stinson]

Granted I haven't raced in a few years, so maybe it isn't my place to comment, but in support of T2x there is a LOT to be learned if people would just listen to what he is saying. I believe his criticisms are directed at ideas that have proved flawed in the past. "Those that don't learn from history are destined to repeat it".

T2x is spot on in that you have to fix the competiton model first before you can confidently expect that you have a product that any one other than the racers themselves will be interested in watching.

I wish nothing but the best for this crazy sport that we all love so passionately, but I've seen this movie more than once, and I know how it ends.....

Tom
Total Marine

Hey Tom

It's been awhile since the F2 days how are you???? I will say that the very first meeting I had out of all of this was with Rich and Phil they have my utmost respect....With that being said I am on a mission I know where Rich stands and if, just if, I am lucky enough to pull this off, which is a major uphill battle at the moment but I do have evryone's ear at the moment do you think it will or will not better the sport!!!!! If I can get this thing unified even in baby steps then I can start bringing money in from whoever....then cavier will appear, champagne will flow, and velvet robes will part!!!!!! What more to living is there!!!!

[Coach]

Granted I haven't raced in a few years, so maybe it isn't my place to comment, but in support of T2x there is a LOT to be learned if people would just listen to what he is saying. I believe his criticisms are directed at ideas that have proved flawed in the past. "Those that don't learn from history are destined to repeat it".

T2x is spot on in that you have to fix the competiton model first before you can confidently expect that you have a product that any one other than the racers themselves will be interested in watching.

I wish nothing but the best for this crazy sport that we all love so passionately, but I've seen this movie more than once, and I know how it ends.....

Tom
Total Marine

Tom,

I agree 100% with you here... Sean is doing a noble thing, who knows where this might lead to.

Coach

[TGC-32]

Hey Tom

It's been awhile since the F2 days how are you???? I will say that the very first meeting I had out of all of this was with Rich and Phil they have my utmost respect....With that being said I am on a mission I know where Rich stands and if, just if, I am lucky enough to pull this off, which is a major uphill battle at the moment but I do have evryone's ear at the moment do you think it will or will not better the sport!!!!! If I can get this thing unified even in baby steps then I can start bringing money in from whoever....then cavier will appear, champagne will flow, and velvet robes will part!!!!!! What more to living is there!!!!

Hi Sean, yes it has been a while since the F-2 days! Those first few years of F-2 might provide a bit of guidance to your efforts. I applaud anyone working for unification, because that is the only way this sport can prosper. That being said, my opinion (and I suspect Rich's also) is that you may only get this one shot at unification, at least for the forseeable future. If that is the case, why not repair the competition model FIRST, so that you have a product that is marketable beyond the participants in the sport?

I recall going to watch the OPA race in Pathogue, NY in 2007. I have been racing for twenty years and know most of the boats and the racers, and I had no idea what was going on after the first few laps. If I can't understand what is going on, how is a newcomer going to understand it? You HAVE to reduce classes to get the boat count UP in the remaining classes. That may leave a number of boats on the sidelines, but so be it. Three boats per class isn't going to excite an audience or make for compelling television, IMHO.

That being said, I would be willing to help in any way I could to help out. I love this sport still and hope to some day get back to participating.

Tom

[stevequick]

Good questions......

The answers are....

If various groups provide a series of bad ideas that have not worked repeatedly for decades.......someone who knows this has the right (maybe the duty) to point it out. If that person is "eloquent" and the opposition can't counter, maybe the opposition's lack of "eloquence" is, in fact, a lack of substance.

If the opposing point of view to the historical perspective is strong and valid, it will prove its point based on the facts...not on crap like cheerleading and "positive attitude" .....That's the essence of debate. Someone wins and someone loses......... based on content......... not style points.

On the other hand, if every voice is raised in support of flimsy and previously failed efforts, you have the 21st Century version of the Pied Piper of Hamlin leading the children out of town.

I am reading through this thread and seeing grandiose plans defeated because one person feels more competent to be a "spokesman" for the U.S. while another "representative" wants the European teams to adopt turbines. Meanwhile the WPPA is sort of partnered with the UIM, as well as P1, and OSS is scheduling against SBI at Clearwater, while CBS is going to approve "sponsorships" for 12-20 boats at Marathon. Do you guys ever listen to your own hot air??????????? How in the world is anyone with half a brain supposed to take any of this seriously?

You have a silly, fragmented sport..... which has wasted money, talent, and band width for decades, created absurd debates like this one and continues to decline.

Deal with that as your only agenda and maybe....just maybe....... your "critics" will become your allies.....

with "eloquence" of course.... :p

Are you officially answering all of Sean's questions? And if so, were you answering the actual questions or fillabustering.... campaigning? What would you be running for? You were already crowned as King.

[stevequick]

the Queen of cockeyed

T2x[/QUOTE]

Please don't call me that in Key West at the Unified World Championships.

[Chris]

We have a couple options at this point...

1. Close the thread

2. Delete posts.

3. Time-out for members

or...

4. Bring this thing back to a polite and respectful tone.

There's really no point in having a big blowout on this topic. That's happened too may times over too many years. And it makes the sport look bad. If we can remember to have this debate with measured words and remember to fight the ideas we disagree with and not the person that has those ideas, maybe we can actually be part of the solution.

[MarylandMark]

That's happened too may times over too many years. And it makes the sport look bad.

I wasn't sure if you were talking about the pizzing contest these threads turn in to or boat racing overall? Fits both like a glove..

:sifone:

[Sean Stinson]

Look I apologize to everyone......I didn't come here to start a war...I passionately and loudly voiced an opinion of what I would like the future to hold for boat racing!!! I respect all of you for your input and ideas...the last thing at this point we need is an all out UFC brawl, although now thinking of it that may not be a bad idea last man standing controls the unified body of offshore!!!! Just kidding!!! I will tell everyone this I look to Rich for alot of advice and insight...don't always listen to it but I value it while trying to form an uneducated opinion of the wacky world we try to play in....I also value each and evryone else opinion doesn't necessarily mean I will go that way.....Steve as well had alot of valuable input concerning a tactful way to cross a bridge.....

All I am saying is that if an all out war is going to ensue it's not going to get us anywhere.....If I had the means to take everyone here that wants to be involved and lock them into a room and say you're here until we have a solution and ONE UNIFIED FRONT I would gladly do it!!!!! But I don't think that we will ever have that oppurtunity so we go along and try different angles of approach and see what happens!!!!!

Hope this makes sense to everyone because I have a hard time following my own thoughts at times!!!!!

[Coach]

Sean, stick to this crusade.... All this info out about the time-buy TV production methodology and all that, will keep everyone from being the deer in the headlights thing...

Coach

[SHARKEY-IMAGES]

If I had the means to take everyone here that wants to be involved and lock them into a room and say you're here until we have a solution and ONE UNIFIED FRONT I would gladly do it!!!!! But I don't think that we will ever have that oppurtunity so we go along and try different angles of approach and see what happens!!!!!

I think someone had already tried that or at least was going too...

Best of luck to you Sean. You have one serious challenge ahead of you.

[stevequick]

To all who believe there might be boats racing in the ocean in the future and to all who risk there lives, time and money keeping Offshore alive now, I humbly apologize. I'll lurk for a while. When you read an "all is lost" "all sux" "don't even try" comment, no matter who writes it, please fill in my response.

Please don't love it to death,
SQ

[SHARKEY-IMAGES]

To all who believe there might be boats racing in the ocean in the future
I not only believe but it is true !!!
I will be in Ocean City, Maryland for a serious Offshore race May 30th & 31st !
Can't count out the under dogs who but not long ago was down to a 12 boat fleet only to turn it around under new management over the past few years. Something must be working for them and are quite content with their status.
They are always looking to improve. We'll see how the season shakes out!

[Pat D]

After living near Ocean City at one time, I can appreciate what Smitty has accomplished in getting that beach closed.
Good job Smitty.........
PD

[Ratickle]

To all who believe there might be boats racing in the ocean in the future and to all who risk there lives, time and money keeping Offshore alive now, I humbly apologize. I'll lurk for a while. When you read an "all is lost" "all sux" "don't even try" comment, no matter who writes it, please fill in my response.

Please don't love it to death,
SQ

I don't see that happening with this group.

And to all who risk their lives, time, and money keeping Offshore alive, Thank You......

Never, Ever Give Up

[Ted]

Hey Rich, we could nominate you as "King of Sarcastic Clarity", how would that be? :D :D

[Ratickle]

So it is said....so it is written......

Hear ye, hear ye!

From now and for always I shall be known as the "King of Sarcastic Clarity".

Spread the word throught out the land and tell the people that all is good in the world.

Is that clearly sarcastic enough? :p

Now all I gotta do is find a nice pic of you to put a crown on.....:26:

[SVL66]

I helped Orange Beach get the first two races established... the APBA Offshore race in the fall of 2003 was a racing in paradise experience for everyone!

Ray


Isnt it true that you were actually thrown off the OB race committee and certain race officials had a restraining order against you? Do you care to comment?

[phragle]

WTF is this ?? a politcal campaign????

[MarylandMark]

WTF is this ?? a politcal campaign????

Can't be- at the end of those there is always a winner. Usually at the end of these (hope this time is different) we all lose.

[Ratickle]

Can't be- at the end of those there is always a winner. Usually at the end of these (hope this time is different) we all lose.

See above frog.....:)

[SVL66]

No political campaign...Coach has been asked nicely and respectively, who he was and who or what Org. he represents. He has chosen not to answer. so I felt it neccessary to call him out.

He does not rep SBI, OSS Clearwater or Orange Beach. So, Im not quite sure what his adjenda is in the grand scheme of things.

[Sean Stinson]

Hi boys and girls

[SHARKEY-IMAGES]

Hi boys and girls

So, were you thrown out ??? :ack2:

[Sean Stinson]

So, were you thrown out ??? :ack2:

No I had the trip from hell buddy and never made it to Marathon but let me tell you a story about Fred Bob Trailer Repair located in Deliverance USA with dueling banjo's as the company music!!!:leaving::leaving:

[Moving2Miami]

I'm trying to stay out of your thread but,

if we want to make it work well, Rich has a very good point. One of the things I've always wondered from a production standpoint. Why doesn't every chopper out there have a roaming TV guy on it with a live link to a big screen back at the dock/pit area.

The choppers are there anyway. The technology certainly exists. What has been the sticking point and would the boat owners allow camera men in their rigs for these events?

You give Rich that much to work with and I guarantee good results for a TV show. Hell, he can add the voice later.....

Just have to find someone to argue with him.. Any volunteers???

Because those 9'X12' Barco Screens are $20K/Each for a weekend, and the microwave transmitters that you would need to get the video & audio signal back to the switcher would be $8000-$10,000/weekend on top of that...Now, who is gonna spend $2500-$3000 PER CAMERA for Sony or Ikegami HD Cameras for the weekend, too...

Just sayin'...This $HIT is EXPENSIVE...lol

[Moving2Miami]

Rich....in the perfect world that would be great...maybe 3 or 4 classes...but you have been around this sport for a long time and have seen a lot......no Org can get the 10 -15 boat count in 3 to 4 classes.... We all agree with you, that less class's and more boats per class is the answer for compitition and the sport....but as you can see...this has not had much success over the years....for that to happen...the racers would have to committ to building a boat to fit one of the 3 classes only...most teams with money are building the big cats...big HP or Turbines....the small guys can't afford to buy a new boat....not to mention would have to sell there current boat in this crazy market....I don't see any Org thats going to abanded there current teams that have been supporting there org to take there class away from them....

There is no good answer to this...other then to work at what we have here in todays Offshore...personally...all we can do is show up an race...and remember to put on a show for the fans and promote our team and sport the best we can...

Sure they can, if they are paying out excellent prize money, and their TV coverage is solid...Races are well attended....Have series sponsors, etc...

It's a chicken & egg thing...

What this sport REALLY needs is is a sports marketer to market the SPORT, and not specific boats, races, etc...

[XtremeRacing]

I think you will see alot more on boards this yr. for some better coverage.

[Ratickle]

Because those 9'X12' Barco Screens are $20K/Each for a weekend, and the microwave transmitters that you would need to get the video & audio signal back to the switcher would be $8000-$10,000/weekend on top of that...Now, who is gonna spend $2500-$3000 PER CAMERA for Sony or Ikegami HD Cameras for the weekend, too...

Just sayin'...This $HIT is EXPENSIVE...lol


I think you will see alot more on boards this yr. for some better coverage.

Are those "one-time" expenses, or every race?

[XtremeRacing]

Not sure yet but the on board might be at no expense to the racers.

[Scotty B]

At the risk of offended some of you, I will share my thoughts. Simply put, Racing will NEVER be united under the current leadership of offshore, and by leadership I mean us, the racers. Ron, Smitty, and JC are doing great jobs with the hand that is dealt. Until offshore is run by a large corporation who's only goal is profit, offshore racing will continue to be what it is. The inmates are running the asylum so make the best of what it is until then (it may never happen but from a corporate standpoint its probably as close or closer than its ever been). Large Corporations deal in black and white with little or no personal agenda, its a profit agenda wich only will come with a successful series. Racing is run today in grey areas and tons of personal agendas. We as racers have too many different opinions and ideas to be able to do it ourselves. That being said, you can still run a successful race team because the people on these boards are just a small fraction of the people that enjoy offshore racing and most average Joes come out to a race and are completely blown away by the same show that bores us to tears http://lakecumberland.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=24050&page=2. The SHOW has caught the attention of some large entities and if they jump on board eventually we can RACE.

PS If we were struggling with sponsorship like most teams, I would be ringing
Movin2Miam's phone off the hook because he hit the nail on the head with his post

[Steve Miklos]

At the risk of offended some of you, I will share my thoughts. Simply put, Racing will NEVER be united under the current leadership of offshore, and by leadership I mean us, the racers. Ron, Smitty, and JC are doing great jobs with the hand that is dealt. Until offshore is run by a large corporation who's only goal is profit, offshore racing will continue to be what it is. The inmates are running the asylum so make the best of what it is until then (it may never happen but from a corporate standpoint its probably as close or closer than its ever been). Large Corporations deal in black and white with little or no personal agenda, its a profit agenda wich only will come with a successful series. Racing is run today in grey areas and tons of personal agendas. We as racers have too many different opinions and ideas to be able to do it ourselves. That being said, you can still run a successful race team because the people on these boards are just a small fraction of the people that enjoy offshore racing and most average Joes come out to a race and are completely blown away by the same show that bores us to tears http://lakecumberland.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=24050&page=2. The SHOW has caught the attention of some large entities and if they jump on board eventually we can RACE.

PS If we were struggling with sponsorship like most teams, I would be ringing
Movin2Miam's phone off the hook because he hit the nail on the head with his post

Yep, and the cycle will continue over and over again.
Steve

[Sean Stinson]

Hold on a second APBA LLC was run like that but then came the big boycott and another split.......

[Scotty B]

Hold on a second APBA LLC was run like that but then came the big boycott and another split....... Still run by racers and not backed by a ton of cash a large corporation would have. They were the best at it so far

[Wahoo 214]

I believe one way to create Scotty's vision is for the race site developers to create a joint venture. Racers can't race without a site and we all know the value of a well organized and funded site. If the top eight sites joined forces and created a series where racers regardless of affiliation were invited to compete classes could be limited and an opportunity for a series sponsor, tv etc would be much greater. If other sites wanted in they would need to pay to enter the series.

[Sean Stinson]

Still run by racers and not backed by a ton of cash a large corporation would have. They were the best at it so far

I will go along with that.... Here's what you do you need to get all the racers together and form a set of standards that all of you need to agree to then if someones feathers get ruffled oh well....live by your standards...Then get a marketing proposal together and sell yourselves to a large corp and they run the show....If it doesn't go your way then you have to suffer the consequences instead of taking your toys and finding another sand box because quite frankly the sand boxes are getting very slim!!!!

Good luck to all of you!!!!

[Moving2Miami]

Are those "one-time" expenses, or every race?

Rental fees per race...For example, The 9X12 Barco Screens are over $300,000 each...

[Scotty B]

I believe one way to create Scotty's vision is for the race site developers to create a joint venture. Racers can't race without a site and we all know the value of a well organized and funded site. If the top eight sites joined forces and created a series where racers regardless of affiliation were invited to compete classes could be limited and an opportunity for a series sponsor, tv etc would be much greater. If other sites wanted in they would need to pay to enter the series.

I like the way you think

[2TR]

I believe one way to create Scotty's vision is for the race site developers to create a joint venture. Racers can't race without a site and we all know the value of a well organized and funded site. If the top eight sites joined forces and created a series where racers regardless of affiliation were invited to compete classes could be limited and an opportunity for a series sponsor, tv etc would be much greater. If other sites wanted in they would need to pay to enter the series.

This sounds fimilair....:iagree:

[Steve Miklos]

Still run by racers and not backed by a ton of cash a large corporation would have. They were the best at it so far

There was a substantial amount of funding available to the LLC. The racer's boycott scared off anyone investing anymore myself included.
Steve

[Mike A.]

Still run by racers and not backed by a ton of cash a large corporation would have. They were the best at it so far

Oh please. They were comprised of mostly (not all) guys pretending to have money who had their own personal agendas. The LLC guys had plenty of personal capital and invested a small fortune. We had a solid competition model, technical model, TV program, and staff. We had a good sponsorship base AND a big name corporate series sponsor in GM. Like it or not, the OSS founders and Mercury Racing boycotted the LLC's Worlds, the LLC members realized there was NO profit potential as a result, and made a business decision not to waste any more money and closed up shop. Now, the OSS founders are mostly gone and the sport is where it is precisely because of their choice. Period.

[Mike A.]

And one more thing: It is personally offensive to suggest they (OSS founders) were the best at it so far. They did nothing to advance the sport, and they did nothing innovative at all. They basically copied the LLC's rules and then ran it into the ground from there, leaving a few well intentioned people holding the bag. Please, they lost boats, race venues, sponsors, TV, and control over the rules. The result? 19 boats per race. By any objective standard, they were an abject failure compared to virtually every past governing regime from APBA Detroit forward.

[Scotty B]

Mike, I agree, You misunderstood me. Don't take my post the wrong way, you did it best, not OSS. When I talk about a Corp taking it over, I mean a Panasonic, GEICO, Viacom, Hard Rock. A group that can throw enough cash to make it work and has enough pull for major TV to be influenced. If a group boycotts or walks, they would be be able to power through it. Plus the only place to run in todays racing world is home.

I was your biggest supporter back in the day, I am just trying to survive and do the best for my sponsor now

[Mike A.]

Sorry Scotty. I did misunderstand you. Think I am still just a teeeeeeeeny bit sensitive even 6 years later? hehehehe.

[Mike A.]

The point is that the LLC did have a good model and with GM we were on the precise track you suggest is the right one. But in hindsight, now that GM is effectively bankrupt, it appears our horse was headed to the glue factory anyway. We just had no way of knowing.

[TYPHOON]

Mike there is no way to turn back the clock. Yes it was the best there ever was and much has been lost. We need to look forward as to what was working and go from there. If it moves forward I am sure many of your ideas will be used. We all know the saying ( coulda, woulda,shoulda ) You had 99% of the package. What you didnt have was the money to say I dont care if you leave the show will go on without you. The smaller teams will always follow the money, they have no choice if they want to stay in the game. Thanks for the great years and I hope one Org. will rise to the top soon.
Steve, you were a big part as well.
MD

[Sean Stinson]

This, gentlemen is exactly why I am going to bow out.....A great person told me not to long ago that I should concentrate on my family and leave the boat racing alone....As much as I want to see ONE UNIFIED BODY it will never happen!!!! Good luck to all of you and those of you that took the time to listen to me or gave me the oppurtunity to ask questions thank you from the bottom of my heart!!!! I am going to buy a sailboat!!!! Anybody that wants to have umbrella drinks in a marina slip somewhere feel free to email me and we can enjoy a rum runner and tell lies of the old days!!!!

Hope to see all of you on the water!!!!

[Steve Miklos]

Gentleman this sport is dead. As long as the racers are middle aged guys spending their own money for their own fun it will always be dead.
If the sport was made up of young guns making a living racing rather then what it is you may interest a large corporation. When a potential group come to a race and see a bunch of ego's they will never see a return on their investment. Just a bunch of self centered people with personal agendas.

If they do get past that, when they do their due dilligance. They will see a group that will throw out and boycott a major sponsor when a company like Mercury Racing gives a team the equivalent of glass beads and trinkets.

Steve

[Steve Miklos]

Scotty
I love ya and think it is great to see an F1 guy get a top notch ride. I truley mean that. The problem is to have commercial success you need a compliant group so a product can be created. Once you create a valuable product it cannot be fragile it needs to be robust.
The best thing you could do for your sponsor is buy 20 boats and find 40 Scotty's to run them. (plus 10 alternates). That could make boat racing a viable product.

I think this is why you see that John C. can make it with a loyal but small group. Like it or not John C. and Smitty are the last guys standing.
Steve

[smokeybandit]

This, gentlemen is exactly why I am going to bow out.....A great person told me not to long ago that I should concentrate on my family and leave the boat racing alone....As much as I want to see ONE UNIFIED BODY it will never happen!!!! Good luck to all of you and those of you that took the time to listen to me or gave me the oppurtunity to ask questions thank you from the bottom of my heart!!!! I am going to buy a sailboat!!!! Anybody that wants to have umbrella drinks in a marina slip somewhere feel free to email me and we can enjoy a rum runner and tell lies of the old days!!!!

Hope to see all of you on the water!!!!

Umbrella drinks and lies. That actually sounds like the best plan so far. Sean, you can count me in.

[Ted]

I'm up for umbrella drinks!!

[Ratickle]

I'm up for umbrella drinks!!

Me too. Not sure about on a sailboat though......:ack2:

[Mike A.]

What you didnt have was the money to say I dont care if you leave the show will go on without you. The smaller teams will always follow the money, they have no choice if they want to stay in the game.
MD

Randy,

Thanks but on this final point you are simply wrong. In saying this, I am not picking at you. Rather, I am making a critical point that I think needs to be made and understood in order for there ever to be a turnaround in the sport. Here it is: Collectively, the LLC investors had plenty of personal resources to keep going. The problem was that the boycott killed the business model and in doing so, the profit potential that was needed to justify any further investment.

Look, we had 53 boats in Orange Beach and we knew full well that if we had kept going we would have had a solid but greatly diminished fleet of loyal teams who would have kept racing with us. But, we also knew that we would be spending money rebuilding what was lost, and competing against a new splinter group. As business people we rightly recognized that there was no sense in throwing good money after bad running that diminished sanctioning organization, and decided to keep our money rather than spending any more on what had become painfully obvious: we were never going to realize profits any time soon. As a result, we closed the doors and the rest is history.

[AugiePensa]

Scotty
I love ya and think it is great to see an F1 guy get a top notch ride. I truley mean that. The problem is to have commercial success you need a compliant group so a product can be created. Once you create a valuable product it cannot be fragile it needs to be robust.
The best thing you could do for your sponsor is buy 20 boats and find 40 Scotty's to run them. (plus 10 alternates). That could make boat racing a viable product.

I think this is why you see that John C. can make it with a loyal but small group. Like it or not John C. and Smitty are the last guys standing.
Steve

Like I said in other posts, in the end there will be cockroaches, twinkes, John Carbonell and now Smitty.

[Steve Miklos]

Randy
In reality you are still boycotting. Want to help the sport? Do some SBI events I have offered to do OSS events. The reality is until people start crossing the line the lines will always be drawn.

Mercury left and took their glass beads and trinkets with them. The wake of damage they caused still rips through the sport. Stop asking for others to fix it and make you a nice cozy place to race. Many have worked for you to race it is time to reach across the lines so the Sport can continue.

I will be in Sunny Isles going to Bimini are any SVL's going?

Why miss the 25th aniversary of Sarasota?

When we spoke about Clearwater and I was going to buy a 525 to race it so why not race it as SBI?

The few holdouts are simply assuring no recovery will ever occour.

Steve

[Steve Miklos]

Smitty has a cohesive group that follows him. Not for some free equipment but because they believe in him. That is the key to his success. Smitty has felt Mercury Racing's wrath first hand and will never be dupped as OSS is. Anyone who cannot see past the 850 debacle is blind.
Steve

[Geronimo36]

Because those 9'X12' Barco Screens are $20K/Each for a weekend, and the microwave transmitters that you would need to get the video & audio signal back to the switcher would be $8000-$10,000/weekend on top of that...Now, who is gonna spend $2500-$3000 PER CAMERA for Sony or Ikegami HD Cameras for the weekend, too...

Just sayin'...This $HIT is EXPENSIVE...lol


I hear ya but, one of the best races I've been to in the past couple of years was the 2006 Destin worlds.... Live TV action through out the race... I would be on the hotel balcony watching the boats go by the start-finish, then run back inside to watch the back stretch of the course on live TV... Truely a great experience and wish it could be done more! :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_SAFjARlMc

[Mike A.]

Like I said in other posts, in the end there will be cockroaches, twinkes, John Carbonell and now Smitty.

Perfectly said.

[Sean Stinson]

Umbrella drinks and lies. That actually sounds like the best plan so far. Sean, you can count me in.

Not a problem....

[2TR]

Any care to e-mail me as to what EXACTLY is going on? I'm a newbie to offshore and trying to read between the lines is getting confusing.

But I must say Mike A has had some straight forward posts in this thread.

[Ted]

Rick, nothing is going on. It is going to be basically the same this year as it has been for the last 7-8 except with smaller boat counts pretty much everywhere. Each head of each organization is happy (or at least complacent) with what they are doing and have no real desire to merge, overtake, or squash the others. And most of the racers are happy doing what they're doing. But everyone that has a vision of how it was or how it could be wants more, and everyone believes that unification would provide that. And maybe it would......

[Ratickle]

Rick, nothing is going on. It is going to be basically the same this year as it has been for the last 7-8 except with smaller boat counts pretty much everywhere. Each head of each organization is happy (or at least complacent) with what they are doing and have no real desire to merge, overtake, or squash the others. And most of the racers are happy doing what they're doing. But everyone that has a vision of how it was or how it could be wants more, and everyone believes that unification would provide that. And maybe it would......

All I'm pushing for is a unified set of rules for a certain number of classes, and everyone at one event. Preferably a "Worlds", but at least one event somewhere this year.

[Chris]

Any care to e-mail me as to what EXACTLY is going on? I'm a newbie to offshore and trying to read between the lines is getting confusing.

But I must say Mike A has had some straight forward posts in this thread.

That e-mail would fill an encyclopedia. If you're new to the sport, enjoy the general boating sections and spend your time going to the races and enjoying the action. Trying to understand the internal politics of the various race series and sanctioning bodies is going to be akin to one morning hearing about the conflicts between the Jews and Arabs and asking "what's that all about?"

Trust me when I tell you that even the guys with 30 or 40 years inside the sport really have no idea how to "fix" it. In the end, it may just fix itself.

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

I will be in Sunny Isles going to Bimini are any SVL's going?

Why miss the 25th aniversary of Sarasota?

When we spoke about Clearwater and I was going to buy a 525 to race it so why not race it as SBI?

The few holdouts are simply assuring no recovery will ever occour.

Steve

Nice, Put a 525 in and see if you still got it. I don't know if you would have anything for Randy, me or the Dunbars. :biggrinjester:

Sunny Isles will be a good time. Bimini run is on Friday.

[Steve Miklos]

Nice, Put a 525 in and see if you still got it. I don't know if you would have anything for Randy, me or the Dunbars. :biggrinjester:

Sunny Isles will be a good time. Bimini run is on Friday.

Why put in a 525? Everyone is in the ECM's that is clear even in video's of even pleasure boats. I have full data aquisition and there is dyno near. Why not get this going the right direction? My revs etc can be seen after the race and during live on shore. As far as what I have or not talent wise I did 156 hours last year.
There is a time to beat for Bimini are you talking or running?
Steve

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

When we spoke about Clearwater and I was going to buy a 525 to race it so why not race it as SBI?

Steve

I read and thought your were going to run with us. We swap ECU's sometimes. Usually one class at a time.

I am Running with Freeze Frame in his newly restored Superboat.


Talking or running? I am running. You bring it.

[Ted]

Me too. Not sure about on a sailboat though......:ack2:

Just saw this, I figure if we're on a sailboat at least it's unlikely Stinson will flip it :rofl::sifone:

[Dunbar 104]

[QUOTE=Steve Miklos;226130]Why put in a 525? Everyone is in the ECM's that is clear even in video's of even pleasure boats.

Last I knew changing the ecm on a spec motor is called cheating. It doesn't matter that you can, or can't. Its still cheating.

[TYPHOON]

Steve I do race with OPA as well. At this point I have no desire or the funds to race with SBI. I thought I just thanked you and Mike for some good times racing in the LLC. Why do you keep kicking me in the nuts when I dont race with SBI. I happen to believe in the OSS model.
Mike as a business man I dont blame you for pulling the plug. If you cant make money at it get out. Dont blame the racers for your failer. You were the CEO of the LLC and there is no one but yourself to point fingers at. Some where you lost touch with the racers and they left. It sucked when it fell apart for me as well. Can we please move on its been years now.
MD

[MANITIE]

Mike and Steve...thanks for jumping in and putting in your thoughts....

Its good to hear from the guys that ran things and put Offshore in the spot light and gave us the publicity we all got with the LLC

APBA LLC had the right bussines plan and with everything to back it up...thats why it was so successful.....

I would think with the way everything is going with Mercury Racing that it's even a bigger eye opener to have compitition with the engine builders...with still over 35 Vortecs at Inovations and with Ilmor in the racing picture and wanting in, that its time to look at opening the door to them....forcing teams to race one engine has proven its not working....because that engine builder can change and build new ones which means we all have to keep buying them...and as far as support gose...it can be gone just as fast....

You have Steve who has a SVL and is willing to run it against the OSS guys...do you want boats and compitition or make your rules that keep boats from attending...we know have 750's AND 850's....when dose it stop...

Take the Mercury Racing, Ilmors and Vortec engines...have a outside engine builder or inspectors dyno and set up all engines as close as they can be set to be equal and seal them and have inspections...and then let the racers decide what engine package they want to run....if a engine builder wants to come up with a compinsation package to get racers to buy there enignes then great...that will make the others follow sute...and have all 3 be at the races for race support....

Times are changing...Ilmor is in the game now...Vortecs are still out there...
Spec racing is great...but maybe its time to have more options opened up to the racers....GM's idea of the lease programs was great...this way if another engine package was better you could switch the next year without loosing your shirt....

We all hear about prise money and sponsorships.....but the money is just as good if we can get a discount on the engine packages....a true discount...and with competition between engine builders that could bring that back to the table....and a deal were no matter what Org you race in you get the discount...a racers is a racers...and is running your equipment...you should have support no matter were you run.....

[Ratickle]

Just saw this, I figure if we're on a sailboat at least it's unlikely Stinson will flip it :rofl::sifone:

Good point.......:rofl:

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

[QUOTE=Steve Miklos;226130]Why put in a 525? Everyone is in the ECM's that is clear even in video's of even pleasure boats.

Last I knew changing the ecm on a spec motor is called cheating. It doesn't matter that you can, or can't. Its still cheating.

Mark, Sure was fun racing this past weekend.

Life sure is better when you get to race.:biggrinjester:

[Sean Stinson]

Good point.......:rofl:

You know both of you should watch the remake of "The Thomas Crown Affair" with Peirce Brosnan....If he can flip a sailboat I am sure I can flip a sailboat...I didn't say I was going to get a slow, slow sailboat I was going to get a fast, slow sailboat...:sifone::sifone::sifone:

[Dunbar 104]

Mark, Sure was fun racing this past weekend.

Life sure is better when you get to race.:biggrinjester:[/QUOTE]


Yes it was!!!!!! Its one to one on my count. I though that was the point of race boats was to race other boats.

Wild Ride might make the trip to Sunny Isles. Maybe Bruce?

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

[[/QUOTE]


Wild Ride might make the trip to Sunny Isles. Maybe Bruce?[/QUOTE]



Bring it. Don't keep talking about it Race

[SVL66]

Maybe Bruce?

Perhaps...if your nice to me:sifone:

[AugiePensa]

Ya like that Mike and how true is that statement? How are you bud?

[Steve Miklos]

Yes it is and it happens on 525 reguarly. There is no way to tech them on 525 unless you have the proper tools. OSS does not have the proper tools. Check sum is not a valid option and it is easily beat.
Steve

[Steve Miklos]

Steve I do race with OPA as well. At this point I have no desire or the funds to race with SBI. I thought I just thanked you and Mike for some good times racing in the LLC. Why do you keep kicking me in the nuts when I dont race with SBI. I happen to believe in the OSS model.
Mike as a business man I dont blame you for pulling the plug. If you cant make money at it get out. Dont blame the racers for your failer. You were the CEO of the LLC and there is no one but yourself to point fingers at. Some where you lost touch with the racers and they left. It sucked when it fell apart for me as well. Can we please move on its been years now.
MD

Funny the OSS model is just a ripoff of the LLC. This post is exactly why no one will put their time and money up to build a circuit for most Offshore racers.
Steve

[Sean Stinson]

Funny the OSS model is just a ripoff of the LLC. This post is exactly why no one will put their time and money up to build a circuit for most Offshore racers.
Steve

Hey Steve

Whats up bro??? I was going to give it a shot but the only thing I can't get everyone to agree on is to disagree on everything!!!! So I am going to politely roll up my quest and watch it all from the sidelines!!!! Hope to see you sometime bro!!!!

Sean

[TYPHOON]

Sean, Now that you have tryed to talk to all the party's at hand and you feel it is unrepairable at this time, PLEASE give us your opinion as to why you are throwing in the towel. You have spent lots of time on this project and probualy have the best insite as of today. Thanks for your efforts.
MD

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

Yes it is and it happens on 525 reguarly. There is no way to tech them on 525 unless you have the proper tools. OSS does not have the proper tools. Check sum is not a valid option and it is easily beat.
Steve

Are you sure you know it all?

[Dunbar 104]

Yes it is and it happens on 525 reguarly. There is no way to tech them on 525 unless you have the proper tools. OSS does not have the proper tools. Check sum is not a valid option and it is easily beat.
Steve

Anyone can cheat in any form of racing. It requires having enough integrity not to. Not the idea that if You don't get caught that it ok. So if you want to race the best in SVL it is a with OSS and it is done legally. Is that why you don't race with us?

[SVL66]

Guys...

I hate to say this, but for once, JUST ONCE, Im going to agree with Gino. If Merc is out of the picture, and we can come up with a fair and fool proof way of teching the other motors, I think we should consider them. If this is the only way to get all the Vee Lites on the course at the same time....BRING IT. 12 - 15 Vee Lites on the course will put on an helluva show. And quite possibly, steal the show. With the possibility of TV coverage, now is the time to look outside the box and into the future. Everything we've done so far, has not worked. It's time to try something else.

I talked to Randy about possibly doing some SBI races as well. He is really on a tight wire right now, And also has ill feelings. If he agreed to run with me in my boat and Steve and Bob M and Pirate came out to play, I would consider racing SBI as well. I can only do a linited schedule this year. But if this is what it takes to bring everyone together, Im all for it.

I know JC has said "the past is the past", lets move forward. Everyone can race as long as they play by the rules.

[Dunbar 104]

If you read the rules for OSS It states that other engine packages can be submitted for approval if they make 100 units or more and there is no competitive advantage.

[Steve Miklos]

Anyone can cheat in any form of racing. It requires having enough integrity not to. Not the idea that if You don't get caught that it ok. So if you want to race the best in SVL it is a with OSS and it is done legally. Is that why you don't race with us?


Yea that's it. You crack me up!
Steve

[Steve Miklos]

If you read the rules for OSS It states that other engine packages can be submitted for approval if they make 100 units or more and there is no competitive advantage.


Ilmor has over 100 units. That is a hurdle M<ercury Racing had added to the ripped off LLC rules (mike and I wrote) They thought would never get eclipsed. So let Ilmor in. I will buy one. Didnt the whole side of your boat say "Mercury Racing"
Steve

[Steve Miklos]

Guys...

I hate to say this, but for once, JUST ONCE, Im going to agree with Gino. If Merc is out of the picture, and we can come up with a fair and fool proof way of teching the other motors, I think we should consider them. If this is the only way to get all the Vee Lites on the course at the same time....BRING IT. 12 - 15 Vee Lites on the course will put on an helluva show. And quite possibly, steal the show. With the possibility of TV coverage, now is the time to look outside the box and into the future. Everything we've done so far, has not worked. It's time to try something else.

I talked to Randy about possibly doing some SBI races as well. He is really on a tight wire right now, And also has ill feelings. If he agreed to run with me in my boat and Steve and Bob M and Pirate came out to play, I would consider racing SBI as well. I can only do a linited schedule this year. But if this is what it takes to bring everyone together, Im all for it.

I know JC has said "the past is the past", lets move forward. Everyone can race as long as they play by the rules.

Well put Bruce
I will show if one boat shows up. Anyone can go for a ride in my boat at anytime.
Steve

[Dunbar 104]

If you read the rules for OSS It states that other engine packages can be submitted for approval if they make 100 units or more and there is no competitive advantage.


Ilmor has over 100 units. That is a hurdle M<ercury Racing had added to the ripped off LLC rules (mike and I wrote) They thought would never get eclipsed. So let Ilmor in. I will by one. Didnt the whole side of your boat say "Mercury Racing"
Steve

Not suprised just reading what the rules say. If the Ilmor has an equal or can make an equal than Ok.

It did, but it was on the boat when we bought it.

[Steve Miklos]

Are you sure you know it all?

Well I know enough about this subject.
It was my task with the LLC to evaluate how secure our rules and tech procedures were for every engine platform. When the engines were carb it was easier. The injected engines are much easier to hide performance advantages.

Without touching the ECM you can make more power on a 525 several ways.

If you get in the ECM which has happened you have even greater advantages. If you combine that with a fuel program you can easily have a significant advantage.
Steve

[Steve Miklos]

Hey Steve

Whats up bro??? I was going to give it a shot but the only thing I can't get everyone to agree on is to disagree on everything!!!! So I am going to politely roll up my quest and watch it all from the sidelines!!!! Hope to see you sometime bro!!!!

Sean

What's up Mr. stinson? It is a tough crowd everone is practicing revisionist history!
Hope all is well!
Steve

[smokeybandit]

I hope that all of you realize that if you get rid of this circle racing you eliminate most of these tech issues. The ocean is the great equalizer.

[Steve Miklos]

I hope that all of you realize that if you get rid of this circle racing you eliminate most of these tech issues. The ocean is the great equalizer.

That it is! Just hard to promote.

So with that said who's going to Bimini with an SVL?
Steve

[Sean Stinson]

sean, now that you have tryed to talk to all the party's at hand and you feel it is unrepairable at this time, please give us your opinion as to why you are throwing in the towel. You have spent lots of time on this project and probualy have the best insite as of today. Thanks for your efforts.
Md

politics

[Sean Stinson]

I will be named "The Prince of Negativity" if I answer it correctly but love him or hate him T2x has some infinite wisdom in his words!!!!

I don't know I am frustrated, dissappointed, and for lack of a better term down right phucking mad that something that could be a beautiful global entertainment entity is nothing more than what it has become!!!!!!! Let me cool off for a few days and we will see what I can come up with after regrouping!!!!!

One thing is you guys need to take Rodney King's advice and "Begin to ALL get Along"

The Illustrious One

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

Well I know enough about this subject.
It was my task with the LLC to evaluate how secure our rules and tech procedures were for every engine platform. When the engines were carb it was easier. The injected engines are much easier to hide performance advantages.

Without touching the ECM you can make more power on a 525 several ways.

If you get in the ECM which has happened you have even greater advantages. If you combine that with a fuel program you can easily have a significant advantage.
Steve

Steve, It is clear you and your buddies don't like OSS. I get it. The part I don't understand is why you don't race. Is it cause everyone is a cheater in your eyes? Is it you really don't want to race anyone? Have you ever raced anyone?

Wasn't it your buddy Mike that first said shut up and race?

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

That it is! Just hard to promote.

So with that said who's going to Bimini with an SVL?
Steve

George expressed an interest in running his IMCO boat, But I am already committed to run with Freeze in his Superboat.

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

I hope that all of you realize that if you get rid of this circle racing you eliminate most of these tech issues. The ocean is the great equalizer.

Yes, it would be nice to race longer open runs. Even at sites where you could like KW it is not done.

[Steve Miklos]

Steve, It is clear you and your buddies don't like OSS. I get it. The part I don't understand is why you don't race. Is it cause everyone is a cheater in your eyes? Is it you really don't want to race anyone? Have you ever raced anyone?

Wasn't it your buddy Mike that first said shut up and race?

I have actually said I would race OSS as the real people behind the boycott are long gone. The reality is they will not allow the Vortec. If I thought someone was cheating I would just protest them.
Steve

[Dunbar 104]

Talk to Randy about the Vortec.

One thing I do like about the euro p1 is the short course one day, and the long course the next.

[Ratickle]

Talk to Randy about the Vortec.

One thing I do like about the euro p1 is the short course one day, and the long course the next.

I agree, or alternate short/long with different classes the same day.

Part of the attraction you have is the ability to be up close and personal. And see the race. Look at the difference in attendance, popularity, and exposure in the Daytona 500 vs the Baja 1000.

And the Baja 1000 has a lot more participants.

Does anyone have a figure for how many paid spectators were in attendance at the Worlds this past November?

[Mike A.]

Steve I do race with OPA as well. At this point I have no desire or the funds to race with SBI. I thought I just thanked you and Mike for some good times racing in the LLC. Why do you keep kicking me in the nuts when I dont race with SBI. I happen to believe in the OSS model.
Mike as a business man I dont blame you for pulling the plug. If you cant make money at it get out. Dont blame the racers for your failer. You were the CEO of the LLC and there is no one but yourself to point fingers at. Some where you lost touch with the racers and they left. It sucked when it fell apart for me as well. Can we please move on its been years now.
MD

Randy,

I am not pointing fingers at anyone. Just telling the truth. The boycotters left because I "lost touch" with them? Well, that is pretty fruity, but OK, if you say so. Bottom line is that they left, we quit, and the sport died.

[smokeybandit]

I agree, or alternate short/long with different classes the same day.

Part of the attraction you have is the ability to be up close and personal. And see the race. Look at the difference in attendance, popularity, and exposure in the Daytona 500 vs the Baja 1000.

And the Baja 1000 has a lot more participants.

Does anyone have a figure for how many paid spectators were in attendance at the Worlds this past November?


Would you take a Baja 1000 vehicle and drive it around in circles at Daytona?

[Steve Miklos]

Randy,

I am not pointing fingers at anyone. Just telling the truth. The boycotters left because I "lost touch" with them? Well, that is pretty fruity, but OK, if you say so. Bottom line is that they left, we quit, and the sport died.

Actually at the time the big thing was "How dare you (the LLC) have a profit motive" .

So they (OSS/Mercury Racing) went not for profit (except of course for Mercury Racing). As Scotty pointed out that does not work.

Large corporations understand a profit motive much better than an alleged charity/not for profit group of transient amateur (not making a living at it) racers
Steve


The funny part is that the engine rebuild cost was less with CRE than it is from Mercury Racing..... Go figure

[Ted]

Would you take a Baja 1000 vehicle and drive it around in circles at Daytona?


No they do that in stadiums now.

[Geronimo36]

I hope that all of you realize that if you get rid of this circle racing you eliminate most of these tech issues. The ocean is the great equalizer.

I like your thinking... I like the idea of limiting cubic inches, compression, blown/not-blown, min/max sizes for classes and let the rest fly... Spec classes invite cheaters and can increase budgets IMHO.

But whatever, it's all good! At least people are still racing!

[Geronimo36]

No they do that in stadiums now.

I've been to one, thought it sucked. too slow... BUT, they attract the crowds so I believe both are necessary.

[MANITIE]

I tought there were over 100 Vertec's built also...
I talk to Ian and Paul and they are all in about racing...they said in the new 525 Class in OPA They would detune there 625 to meet what ever was agreed to compare to the 525's and Smitty is looking into it....we would like to run the 625 in the new Dragon...and like Smitty says...it will bring in more compitition....I talked to Dave at Inovation a few weeks back and they still have motors there....

There is no reason you could not get someone like Tyler or Frank from Scorpion to dyno and test all engines and make adjustments to make it close as possible to running the same HP and torque....

The one engine, drive combo has been tried.....and while I would think it should have worked...it has not....but again...we all talk about prize money...don't loose site of the other oppertunitys out there for money...like let the 3 engine manufactures compete with each other and let them put up money to have racers used there equipment...who cares if the money comes from prize money or from the engine builders....is money in your pocket....and with that will come support....maybe not putting all your eggs in one basket is the best way to go.....and with the new tech coming out in drive packages...like the Ilmor Daytona, Wiseman, Imco and Mercury....lets open the door to some great companys.....let the #6's, Wisemen and new Daytona get classed in...and the Imco's and Bravos do the same.....

The racers need backing from the equipment we buy....not a monopoly for just company and one Org...if all orgs can get on the same page and open the doors to these other companys then it wil also open the doors to racers to race agasint each other with comperable equipment.....

[Sean Stinson]

Randy,

I am not pointing fingers at anyone. Just telling the truth. The boycotters left because I "lost touch" with them? Well, that is pretty fruity, but OK, if you say so. Bottom line is that they left, we quit, and the sport died.

Mike did you get my message the other day?????

[Ratickle]

Would you take a Baja 1000 vehicle and drive it around in circles at Daytona?

If they added jumps, canyons, etc like they do for indoor motocross/supercross. It would be a money maker which would get good TV coverage and therefore sponsors. Good idea. :sifone:

NASCAR does a couple of road courses every year. The attendance and ratings are both down for those.

[Ratickle]

I tought there were over 100 Vertec's built also...
I talk to Ian and Paul and they are all in about racing...they said in the new 525 Class in OPA They would detune there 625 to meet what ever was agreed to compare to the 525's and Smitty is looking into it....we would like to run the 625 in the new Dragon...and like Smitty says...it will bring in more compitition....I talked to Dave at Inovation a few weeks back and they still have motors there....

There is no reason you could not get someone like Tyler or Frank from Scorpion to dyno and test all engines and make adjustments to make it close as possible to running the same HP and torque....

The one engine, drive combo has been tried.....and while I would think it should have worked...it has not....but again...we all talk about prize money...don't loose site of the other oppertunitys out there for money...like let the 3 engine manufactures compete with each other and let them put up money to have racers used there equipment...who cares if the money comes from prize money or from the engine builders....is money in your pocket....and with that will come support....maybe not putting all your eggs in one basket is the best way to go.....and with the new tech coming out in drive packages...like the Ilmor Daytona, Wiseman, Imco and Mercury....lets open the door to some great companys.....let the #6's, Wisemen and new Daytona get classed in...and the Imco's and Bravos do the same.....

The racers need backing from the equipment we buy....not a monopoly for just company and one Org...if all orgs can get on the same page and open the doors to these other companys then it wil also open the doors to racers to race agasint each other with comperable equipment.....

I'm naive at this. In earlier NASCAR where the designs were unequal, they tested the vehicles and added weight or spoiler changes or restrictor plates etc. Wouldn't the same principles work with all the expertise you guys have to figure it out?

[SVL66]

there is alot of money at stake in NASCAR. I have no doubt, the expertise is there. Problem with boat racing, no one wants to tech engines or be tied up in tech all nite on Sunday. The money is not there to do it right, in my opinion.

[Ratickle]

there is alot of money at stake in NASCAR. I have no doubt, the expertise is there. Problem with boat racing, no one wants to tech engines or be tied up in tech all nite on Sunday. The money is not there to do it right, in my opinion.

Well, in some roundy round racing around here. You have to be willing to sell your motor for a predetermined amount to keep expensive cheating from going on.

There is no protest, just some guy says he wants your motor, $10,000 and it's his......

[Sean Stinson]

OK boys let me ask you this!!!! How much money would you need to do it right????

I am talking tech, prize money, TV, contingencies and whatever else you can throw in the barrel.....I want to hear it all best case scenario right down to how much prize money to pay out and make sure that the racer will get paid to race in your answer here....

I am talking best case scenario for the racer!!!!!

BTW there is a catch coming but I want to hear from racers in all 3 orgs!!!!

WHAT DO YOU WANT BABY!!!!!

Here's your chance to air it all out!!!!!!!!!

[Sean Stinson]

Well, in some roundy round racing around here. You have to be willing to sell your motor for a predetermined amount to keep expensive cheating from going on.

There is no protest, just some guy says he wants your motor, $10,000 and it's his......

APBA LLC had the same thing as far as props go!!!!

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

I have actually said I would race OSS as the real people behind the boycott are long gone. The reality is they will not allow the Vortec. If I thought someone was cheating I would just protest them.
Steve


Talk to Randy about the Vortec.

One thing I do like about the euro p1 is the short course one day, and the long course the next.

Well it would be good to have you and other Vortecs. Maybe some agreement can be found.

[Wardey]

Being able to pay the race bills works for me. Not looking to make a living off of racing but it would be nice to race for free so to speak. Dave

[Ratickle]

OK boys let me ask you this!!!! How much money would you need to do it right????

I am talking tech, prize money, TV, contingencies and whatever else you can throw in the barrel.....I want to hear it all best case scenario right down to how much prize money to pay out and make sure that the racer will get paid to race in your answer here....

I am talking best case scenario for the racer!!!!!

BTW there is a catch coming but I want to hear from racers in all 3 orgs!!!!

WHAT DO YOU WANT BABY!!!!!

Here's your chance to air it all out!!!!!!!!!

Didn't give up for long Sean.....:sifone:

[Sean Stinson]

I cant stand to lose thats the problem and I know there's a workable deal somewhere in all of this he said, she said bs

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

We need more racers than talkers.:biggrinjester:

[MANITIE]

There have been many ways in the past to do this....but not the smoke and mirror ways....like pay full retail for a engine and get money for every race you do.....

Sean....every racer will have a differant dollor amount in mind...

But if there were 3 engines manufactures involved and/or dirve packages...have a deal made with them to sell there packages at a discount up front and a dollor amount for each race that is attended....not retail credits....actual cash at each race site....

So let say you can pick up one of the engines for 22k....and you get $1000 to $1500 a race per engine up to 8 to 9 races a year....and any rebuilts have to be done by the manufacure that egines you are running they would have a posted rebuilt price......

1. You would have some income for showing up for the racers....so even if you did not place you could recover some of your expenses...plus with twin engine boats you could get between 2 and 3k per race....plus if you place you can get your prise money.....and then have a drive sponsorship also...#6 cost 80k for a set....so have a discounted price on them also and a 1k to $1500 a drive cash back at the racees attended up to 8 or 9 races....

From racing a single engine to a twin engine boat the cost more then doubles...and can get pretty expensive...plus with the incentive on the twin engine packages...it will intise the single engine guys to move up also....and you could have new teams join in on the single engine deal...

Just a thought....

[Sean Stinson]

We need more racers than talkers.:biggrinjester:

I have no problem racing I just can't afford the bill at the moment:sifone::sifone::sifone::sifone::sifone:

[Sean Stinson]

OK let me give you an example of what I am talking about

1) A level playing field for each class.....
2) Strong competitive class with several boats that compete
3) Tech rules that are enforceable and punishable
4) Show up money for anything over 500 miles
5) Contingency programs that reward the racers that do well
6) Prize Money and not prize money to recoup my expenses paid down 3 places
a) Third place pays you enough to recoup your expenses
b) Second pays double Third
c) First will pay a very very nice purse
7) TV coverage primetime live every race......
8) A national championship that if you win pays a disgusting display of wealth
9) A world championship that actually carries an inherent honor of winning it along with the above disgusting display of wealth prize purse!!!
10) A global world championship that if you win that YOU ARE THE MF'ing MAN
11) A gala event in the winter that everyone attends and is honored for their accomplishments much like the Oscars
12)Stay tuned I have a lot more

[BUIZILLA]

personally, I think your seriously on to something.. :drool5:

[Coach]

The vision is unfolding...

[TYPHOON]

Steve I am all ears. What is your offer to race with the 525 SVL fleet? We talked earlyer in the year and you were going to e-mail me your proposal. I never got it so please send it again and I will propose it to the SVL teams. I heard you will be in Sunny Isle a couple of weeks so lets get it done. As I recall you didnt want any of the purse money but wanted to be recognized for what position you finished in. Lets fine tune it.
MD

[Heatwave]

So Randy... are you thinking of a power to weight ration for SVL?... like Super V

[Steve Miklos]

Steve I am all ears. What is your offer to race with the 525 SVL fleet? We talked earlyer in the year and you were going to e-mail me your proposal. I never got it so please send it again and I will propose it to the SVL teams. I heard you will be in Sunny Isle a couple of weeks so lets get it done. As I recall you didnt want any of the purse money but wanted to be recognized for what position you finished in. Lets fine tune it.
MD

I will do that pick a dyno. Take a sample 525 from your fleet and my engine.
Steve

[SHARKEY-IMAGES]

Making progress ...... :sifone:

[Steve Miklos]

Guys this is all great but there are some things that need to be realized to ever move forward:

Show me a sponsor that is happy with their Offshore Racing experience (Mercury Racing does not count)

Show me race promoter that has made money repeatedly. I know of 2. Sarasota and Key West.

Show me an independent promoter who has made money in the last 5 years.

You must ask yourself. Why would anyone bother to put a race on for the racers? Whats in it for them?

The same rings true for a sponsor. Whats in it for them?

So let's suppose you do get it all going. What would you do to prevent the next boycott?

This was the case when the economy was at a very high level. How can it possibly work now?

Racers are thumbing their nose at a circuit with TV and a sponsor. You have to ask. How can you be viewed by the sponsors or IRS as a for profit racing team?

If you did have a real sponsor they will demand the most exposure possible (TV the bigger the better).

So if you land a real one you need to get to where they get a return, or you will have nothing.

So let's suppose you do get it all going what would you do to prevent the next boycott? There were guys with real deals that lost them in the boycott (no one cared).

Bob Bull had everything in place in 2004 (sponsors, speed TV etc) after the 2003 boycott but was still boycotted, why? He was left to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to put on races. I would bet all of you wish he would still do what he did today.

How can the racers ever gain corporate Americas trust when the do not act like professional racers and deliver the best exposure possible for their sponsor? Why because they walked out to race for a not for profit with next to zero commercial exposure? No one will ever understand it but you can keep trying to sell it. After 5 years if you cant sell it ,nobody's buying.

Steve

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

I will do that pick a dyno. Take a sample 525 from your fleet and my engine.
Steve

George with the IMCO boat lives in your area.

[Sean Stinson]

So the way I see it right now that the general consensus of all with the exception of a few is "Why Bother, It will never work".....So that's the position everyone is going to hold firm at??????

[XtremeRacing]

Steve,

You make some very valid point, I guess we need to look back at history and try not to make the same mistakes.

[Steve Miklos]

Exactly! Nothing has been learned so this situation (or something similar) will happen over and over again. The racers need to realize they are lucky to have a place to race their equipment.
Most racers spend half of their time wishing a competing circuit will fail rather then supporting the sport. With the OSS crowd "United we race" always has strings attached.
Steve

[Steve Miklos]

So the way I see it right now that the general consensus of all with the exception of a few is "Why Bother, It will never work".....So that's the position everyone is going to hold firm at??????

Well as you know Mike and I and some others sure tried. After that Bob Bull tried. Before that Gene Whipp.
Steve

[Steve Miklos]

George with the IMCO boat lives in your area.

I know and trust George well. He also knows how a Vortec runs as he has raced one in his boat.
Steve

[Wahoo 214]

Guys this is all great but there are some things that need to be realized to ever move forward:

Show me a sponsor that is happy with their Offshore Racing experience (Mercury Racing does not count)

Show me race promoter that has made money repeatedly. I know of 2. Sarasota and Key West.

Show me an independent promoter who has made money in the last 5 years.

You must ask yourself. Why would anyone bother to put a race on for the racers? Whats in it for them?

The same rings true for a sponsor. Whats in it for them?

So let's suppose you do get it all going. What would you do to prevent the next boycott?

This was the case when the economy was at a very high level. How can it possibly work now?

Racers are thumbing their nose at a circuit with TV and a sponsor. You have to ask. How can you be viewed by the sponsors or IRS as a for profit racing team?

If you did have a real sponsor they will demand the most exposure possible (TV the bigger the better).

So if you land a real one you need to get to where they get a return, or you will have nothing.

So let's suppose you do get it all going what would you do to prevent the next boycott? There were guys with real deals that lost them in the boycott (no one cared).

Bob Bull had everything in place in 2004 (sponsors, speed TV etc) after the 2003 boycott but was still boycotted, why? He was left to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to put on races. I would bet all of you wish he would still do what he did today.

How can the racers ever gain corporate Americas trust when the do not act like professional racers and deliver the best exposure possible for their sponsor? Why because they walked out to race for a not for profit with next to zero commercial exposure? No one will ever understand it but you can keep trying to sell it. After 5 years if you cant sell it ,nobody's buying.

Steve

There needs to be an Owner, call it Corp America, that will contract with the sites to create the series. The racers are signed to a contract so they have to compete for say 3 years. That is probably the best you can get.

[Steve Miklos]

There needs to be an Owner, call it Corp America, that will contract with the sites to create the series. The racers are signed to a contract so they have to compete for say 3 years. That is probably the best you can get.

Sounds good but the contract would be very hard to enforce. In F1 auto racing you post a bond and lose it if you miss a race. In F1 the TV rights pay out well (although Bernie keeps a good bit).

If you needed to post a bond the barrier to entry would be higher so quality would cost quantity.

I had proposed in 2001 when we had 15 +- Supercat teams. To limit it to 10. The first ten who registered for the year (paid all entry fees up front). Would be granted a Supercat franchise.

The thought was it would create a value for a team not just the equipment (boat). If you wanted in Supercat you would have to buy a team. If you were to stop participating you lost your franchise.
Steve

[TYPHOON]

Heatwave, No I do not mean a power to weight program. Possably a HP to HP program if the teams in SVL are interesed. Is it possable to have a ECM programed so no one could get into it except inovation on the Vortec motors?
MD

[Ratickle]

Heatwave, No I do not mean a power to weight program. Possably a HP to HP program if the teams in SVL are interesed. Is it possable to have a ECM programed so no one could get into it except inovation on the Vortec motors?
MD

Can't you just download the ECM official program at the race the day of/day before?

For all ECM's?