T2x set me straight please.

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

Didn't APBA sell off or some how separate the Offshore from the rest of it in the late Nineties. Can it be said that every race org somehow split or emerged from something since the NPBA days? APBA had their schedule and NPBA had sportsman club racing years ago.

Who held the First Bennihana and when?

[Sean Stinson]

Offshore hasbeen around for a long time I think it was referred to as the ORC back in the eighties....I think you can find a history in the APBA website although I haven't been there for a long long time....it used to have all the factions....I may be confusing the ORC with the OPC so I am trying to remember from an old mans memory at the moment....it comes from a life of excess!!!!!

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

I thought the Offshore Racing Commission was separate from APBA somehow.

[Sean Stinson]

You know buddy.....I will have to dig back in the archives and find the actual structure of Offshore back in the day!!!! Again I may have the ORC and the OPC confused but let me dig it up!!!!

[Top Banana]

APBA was around forever. In the 70's they had two major classes of offshore racing. Open and Production. The Open class consisted of Open 1 and Open 2. Twin engine up to 1,000 cu in and single engine 500 cu inches.
Production was P for stock stuff, M for modified, meaning you could do a little balance and blueprint and carb changes and Sport for exotic stuff like speedmaster lower units and headers.....I think the lower classes had 750 cu in limit....(350 blocks)

The first Benihana started as the Around Long Island Marathon in 1959. Then Hennessey Cognac sponsored it from 1966, and finally it was known as the Benihana Grand Prix for the first time in 1975..... and won by none other than Mr Robert Saccenti. in a new MSV 44 foot boat called "La Tortuga".

The thing with OPC...Outboard Pleasure Craft class of APBA, was that a lot of guys came from that class...me, T2X, etc as we did marathon races and liked the long races and the navigation that came with offshore races.

[Sean Stinson]

Here's a quick link that I found for you!!!!

www.biggerhammer.net/offshorepage/apba/news.html

[Sean Stinson]

APBA was around forever. In the 70's they had two major classes of offshore racing. Open and Production. The Open class consisted of Open 1 and Open 2. Twin engine up to 1,000 cu in and single engine 500 cu inches.

Remember, and yes Charlie you're very correct, that until 1989 and the advent of OPT that the APBA was the only game concerning National Racing under the UIM......Yes Nordskog had POPBRA as it was first known but it was more or less a divisional series!!!! Again I am not the authority here so some of the older structures and politics you will have to go to the ICON's for!!!!

[Sean Stinson]

The link above was a 1995 bulletin but you get the jist of it!!!!!

[Sean Stinson]

The NPBA is still active although he only does the NYC poker run and something else!!!!

[H2O Full Throttle]

So who runs APBA now as doesnt Mark Webber run APBA out of Detroit but Carbonell own or run APBA Offshore. Can someone enlighten me about this part as I knew Bob Bull owned some part of it before then sold it on to JC.

Thanks

Ned

[Pete B]

One of the finer history lessons on offshore

[Offshore Ginger]

Hey guys i think my all time favorite class was Modified .:sifone:

[Coach]

Wow!

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

Thanks Rich.
I was lucky enough to have met Gene and was racing in 98 when Mike took the reigns. I must say I believed in him at first and 98 ,99 were great years to race. 2000 and '01 were still good, but problems were growing. Soon after the reshuffle began again.

[Sean Stinson]

Amen to that...Notice the phrase...A single source of wonderment!!!!!!! Unification across the Nation

[Pop]

Thanks Rich for the great reminders.

Pop

[Sean Stinson]

Thanks Rich for the great reminders.

Pop

How's your Mom, Pop???

[T2x]

Thanks Rich for the great reminders.

Pop


Thanks to you for all the good you've done... the injuries you have helped prevent...and the lives you've saved.

T2x

[Wardey]

Hey Pop !!! Hope all is well. Dave

[THEJOKER]

Gene Whip was the very 1st person I met in APBA Offshore and I'll never forget spending time with him at his dealership in Sarasota. That guy was a class act and was one serious racer! RIP Gene.

[Mike A.]

it was known as the Benihana Grand Prix for the first time in 1975..... and won by none other than Mr Robert Saccenti. in a new MSV 44 foot boat called "La Tortuga".

.

I was there. Do you remember who actually finished first in the Open Class that day?

[Mike A.]

Rich,

Most of your history is spot on, especially the part about Gene saving APBA Offshore, however, there are a few things which need clarification. First, the money was not coming in when Gene handed the category off to me. Unbeknownst to anyone but me, Gene was writing checks to fund everything. I know that because I had to write him a near six figure check when I took over. In other words, the category was broke - again.

Second, Gene did not become terminally ill until well after he left APBA. Anyone who was close to him at the time - I was actually his attorney on certain matters as well then - he did not enjoy year two of his chairmanship at all. The Alcone/Forest war was raging, SBI was outpulling us at most events in terms of boat count and he was very depressed over what he thought was a lack of loyalty - teams jumping back and forth between series, always threatening to quit, or fund SBI if rules were not changed, etc. The clincher for his quitting was the South Padre Island event. If you will recall, a hurricane was fixing to hit Florida and his granddaughter was urging him to stay with the family rather than attend the race. He elected to go to the race out of a sense of loyalty and committment to the teams. After only 9 or so boats showed up, including no open class teams, Gene called it a day.

After the 1999 season, I simply went to a few key players and told them I had spent even more money than Gene, was just as sick of the crybabies and lack of committment from the big teams, and planned to quit if something was not done to change the paradigm of benevolent chairmen. The LLC was born and the rest was history.

OK, now carry on.
G

[darren us1]

Hi Mike A. I am glad to see that you and my dad are communing nicely again 1975 BENIHANA OPEN WINNER CAM2 BOB MUGOON!

[Mike A.]

Hey Darren,

I always loved that obsolete old fart. Time heals all wounds. And nope, Magoon was not the winner. Actually, Top Banana was correct, La Tortuga won the race, but another team actually finished first only to be DQ'd - a problem which hit that team several times in 1975. In fact, several teams suffered that fate giving the win to the only official finisher that day.

[Sean Stinson]

a hurricane was fixing to hit Florida

Damn Mike where did that southern drawl come from...."Y'all come back now hear"

Sean:sifone::sifone:

Ok Rich you may continue Professor!!!!!:26::26:

[Steve Miklos]

Damn Mike where did that southern drawl come from...."Y'all come back now hear"

Sean:sifone::sifone:

Ok Rich you may continue Professor!!!!!:26::26:

Why chewing tobbaco of course!
Steve

[Coach]

Here's a question for the 'Icon', there's a post out there, offering help with motor sports sponsorship proposals.... the poster is calling this CBS Sports deal a 'time-buy' deal. Give us the resident guru explanation for 'time-buy'?

Sincerely

Coach

[Ted]

Time buy basically means that the network is not producing the show. Nor are they buying it from the producer. The producer is making up the show and then buying time from the network to show it. If you can produce it and get it aired for less than what you can get by selling sponsorship minutes for, you can make some money. Since the Hard Rock is involved with the SBI deal I would suspect they are buying the time and expecting SBI to produce the show, or it is some kind of partnership deal.

[F1-00 Racing]

T2x,

The times have not been released but by deduction it will be Saturdays between 12-3. Reasoning: CBS carries the NFL on Sundays and has had a long standing contract with the SEC conference to carry a game on Saturdays. The college game has always started 3-3:30 and the NFL has sun totaly blocked out from 12-7. I think the exact time will be released down in Marathon this weekend and I am sure Frank, Pat, or the new guy umm Coach will post.

Trent

[Sean Stinson]

Exactly.....

Basically if you have enough scratch you can buy TV time. As long as it does not fail any network standards (which seem to lower by the day), does not embarass the network, and has decent production values...you're good to go.

All this means that Geico can purchase a program called "The building of a Tubine Race boat"...and televise it all by themselves. The cost variees based on time of day/week and the prominence (or lack thereof) of the network in question (The "Root canal Network" is a LOT cheaper than CBS for instance).
On the other hand, you need to look at what the SBI series is scheduled against. If it is NFL Football or Nascar...the network has basically given up on that time slot and will probably sell it at a reduced rate. Since they have nothing to lose, they look to create a revenue producing time slot. You see this with infomercials and similar time buys. This in no way diminishes the fact that even a "dead zone" telecast on CBS is a great opportunity, because people channel surf and tend to land on the closest channel to the one they are currently watching first. So if the Chiefs-Chargers game on NBC goes to commercial and you dial a few channels away (2 hops in NJ) Voila!..you're on CBS and maybe something catches your eye that dissuades you from moving on to the Sprint Cup race at Loudon on Fox. But you damn well better have something that remotely resembles a compelling competition or you will lose your credibility and standing for future consideration.

As always, the devil is in the details.

T2x

I basically said the same thing on the other site in the racing section.....

[Sean Stinson]

Why chewing tobbaco of course!
Steve

Aint nuttin better than a cut of Redman with Bazooka Joe bubble gum wrapped around it....:sifone::sifone::sifone:

[Ratickle]

I basically said the same thing on the other site in the racing section.....

But nobody listens to you......:sifone:

[Coach]

T2x,

The times have not been released but by deduction it will be Saturdays between 12-3. Reasoning: CBS carries the NFL on Sundays and has had a long standing contract with the SEC conference to carry a game on Saturdays. The college game has always started 3-3:30 and the NFL has sun totaly blocked out from 12-7. I think the exact time will be released down in Marathon this weekend and I am sure Frank, Pat, or the new guy umm Coach will post.

Trent

I'm in this for the racers, and a great race in Clearwater Beach, that's my agenda! If JC can't work up a program to put a sincere competition in the water in Clearwater it won't be because I didn't do my best to follow through for everyone....

Sincerely

Coach
(Not an Apologist)

Here's the explanation from our back channel sources:

While I am not directly involved in the SBI/CBS deal, I do know someone who is and I have a call into him to make sure that the info that I have is accurate (99% sure at this point, but I like 100%...lol)

A time buy works like this...You approach the network about your programming idea (a boat race, for example) and you already have some sponsors lined up, and you negotiate the time period that you want, and the dollars that it is going to cost.

Once this is completed, you now "own" the time period (and all of the national inventory that comes with it). So YOU are in control of finding your sponsors and selling your television spots, billboards, etc...

Many of the college BCS bowl games are done this way, because they package up so many sponsorships into the games themselves...It has its good points and its bad points....

If your sport or sanctioning body does very well packaging and selling your sponsorships, then it can be quite lucrative...Even more so than the traditional model where networks paid rights fees...You also maintain a tremendous amount of control over your frmat, production, talent, etc...

This can also sink you too....You really need to be proficient in selling your packages because any short falls between what you raise and the costs to air are your responsibility BEFORE the event hits TV...so, unless you can justify the expense being effective in helping gate receipts tremendously at the events, its very hard to go there...

The NHRA on ESPN is a time-buy....That annual cost is in excess of $10,000,000 PLUS production costs...(Another $2,500,000+) It adds up REAL quick....

Without violating any confidences and going into specifics, I can tell you that many people can build a damn nice house for the cost of one hour of NON-primetime airtime on any of the big 4 networks.

But you better have your sponsors lined up, because it is CASH UP FRONT to the networks to get on the air....

l personally don't know Mr. Carbonnell, but I would wonder if he has sponsors in place to cover over $2,000,000 worth of airtime & production costs...And if it isn't produced in HD, then a lot of people will tune right out...This can cost $50,000+ per event by itself...I haven't heard that he signed a monster series sponsor yet, big six-figure race sponsors, etc...It seems a bit interesting to me that without these sponsors already in place for a while at the races, that he can step up to this level of TV...We'll have to wait and see...

If he pulls this off, it will be great for the sport!