Todays Boat Construction

[chewiekw]

know most of the boats back in the day were wood, aluminum, and fiberglass. But how are today’s boat built? (MTI, Fountains, Mystics, Cigarettes, Skaters, Outerlimits, Platinum, etc)

Do they all use the same basic materials, what material do they use carbon fiber? I see that Platinum uses an Autoclave, how does this help?

[Steve 1]

know most of the boats back in the day were wood, aluminum, and fiberglass. But how are today’s boat built? (MTI, Fountains, Mystics, Cigarettes, Skaters, Outerlimits, Platinum, etc)

Do they all use the same basic materials, what material do they use carbon fiber? I see that Platinum uses an Autoclave, how does this help?


Some plastics (like epoxy) store Heat energy as Bonds Plus the Autoclave (Big Big Money) Pressures are much higher than can be obtained under a vacuum bag which is limited to the weight of the atmosphere @14.7 PSI at sea level.

The Autoclave meanwhile is capable of pressures 100’s of times greater than the simple bag can ever produce, Now with the Autoclave the elevated temperature (more bonds) along with the High pressure cure One can achieve the ultimate physicals of the laminate IE a tightly packed and low resin laminate is desired here.

Think of it as a Pressure oven or heated Vacuum chamber There are Also Hydroclaves which use liquid as the working fluid much safer Now for when they go only a end of the factory gets demolished insted of the city block

[Chris]

Kevlar is still widely used and now carbon fiber is being placed in key stress areas. There have been total carbon/epoxy boats constructed. They're very strong and they're light, but in an offshore boat that's not always a good thing. They're very stiff and when you toss light into the mix, that doesn't give you the best in rough-water handling charachteristics.

The issue with an autoclave-cured all-carbon boat is how do you repair it?

[Anchored]

Kevlar is still widely used and now carbon fiber is being placed in key stress areas. There have been total carbon/epoxy boats constructed. They're very strong and they're light, but in an offshore boat that's not always a good thing. They're very stiff and when you toss light into the mix, that doesn't give you the best in rough-water handling charachteristics.

The issue with an autoclave-cured all-carbon boat is how do you repair it?

This allows you to put the weight where you want it.

[Steve 1]

Kevlar is still widely used and now carbon fiber is being placed in key stress areas. There have been total carbon/epoxy boats constructed. They're very strong and they're light, but in an offshore boat that's not always a good thing. They're very stiff and when you toss light into the mix, that doesn't give you the best in rough-water handling charachteristics.

The issue with an autoclave-cured all-carbon boat is how do you repair it?

Curing blanket and a simple bag talking small areas!

[Chris]

Curing blanket and a simple bag talking small areas!

Would you attempt a repair like that on the Callan Tencara?

[Steve 1]

Would you attempt a repair like that on the Callan Tencara?

What Kind of "repair" are you talking about?

[Sean H]

What Kind of "repair" are you talking about?

putting the bottom of the sponson back on it

[Steve 1]

putting the bottom of the sponson back on it

How could that be a problem?

[Sean H]

How could that be a problem?

pics

[Steve 1]

pics

Dude Money is an VERY Amazing thing!!! Hell Yes that can be fixed I build Cats Moldless. But what caused it? Accident or An Accident in engineering or Most common the dreaded Shop related Qlitch?

[Sean H]

there a pics of it growing larger lap after lap then finally letting go, either a small impact or a spot started delaminating and then the water pressure got to it.

[Steve 1]

there a pics of it growing larger lap after lap then finally letting go, either a small impact or a spot started delaminating and then the water pressure got to it.

That is a big dollar operation and some smart people involved.They may have hit something to start the failure.

[Offshore Ginger]

materials , Epoxy, core , kevlar, carbon fiber , S or E , glass and these materials are only used where needed along with vacume bagging and i agree with Steve , that a repair can be fixed either the old fashion way or with a splash and yes money is an amazing thing . I think years ago tencara was using a male mold but i could be wrong . I remember many years ago when working at Skater when we were in the transition of using epoxy from vinyl and having boats comeing back because the jell was peeling of the sides of the boat and then starting to throw cotton flock into a fan that went into the mold after the jell was sprayed so we could get the jell to adhere to the epoxy and then we discovered Poly Bond which could be sprayed .:):)

[SHARKEY-IMAGES]

Not all boats are created equal !!! :sifone:

Take a crawl through this one:

http://sharkeyimages.zenfolio.com/p717714162/slideshow



http://sharkeyimages.zenfolio.com/img/v5/p1024334956-4.jpg

[Offshore Ginger]

I have to say that i have done repairs far worse then that , like the old CARLOS N CHARLIES X-TREME and JELLY BELLY GONE AGAIN , just to name a few ! :)

[SHARKEY-IMAGES]

Oh what water can do..... :ack2:

http://sharkeyimages.zenfolio.com/img/v1/p99437533-3.jpg

[Offshore Ginger]

Oh what water can do..... :ack2:

http://sharkeyimages.zenfolio.com/img/v1/p99437533-3.jpg Come on SHARKEY you must have better pics then that and might i mention it is not that bad , till you see and smell blood , or rot out of the oridinary in the core or the bilge .

[SHARKEY-IMAGES]

Sure I do !

But I just sold them ! :)

Stay tuned...... :sifone:

[Ted]

I have to say that i have done repairs far worse then that , like the old CARLOS N CHARLIES X-TREME :)


This boat? What happened to it?

[getchasum111]

it's for sale in the classifieds

[Offshore Ginger]

This boat? What happened to it? We repaired it adding almost one new side ,over half the deck , new blukheads , knees , new floor in cockpit , along with adding a 4 man canopy and the list goes on . i do not know who owns the boat now but it was shipped to Bob Morgans , Big Thunder Marine who had a buyer for the boat . I have ran threads on previous sites trying to find out where the location of the boat is now just out of curiosity .:)

[Ted]

It belongs to a friend of mine here in Maryland. That pic I posted was from Key West this year, it raced in P class. He also has the Extreme Cigarette that races with OPA. As far as I know he has never had a hull issue with it, you do good work :D

[Offshore Ginger]

It belongs to a friend of mine here in Maryland. That pic I posted was from Key West this year, it raced in P class. He also has the Extreme Cigarette that races with OPA. As far as I know he has never had a hull issue with it, you do good work :D thank you for the complment . I have to say that i really enjoyed working on that boat and seeing it go thru all the stages of repair from a total wreck to running on the water again . I was just curious could you post some pics of the old girl and are you sure we are talking about the same boat that Jack Carmondy got killed in that was called CARLOS N CHARLIES X-TREME because the boat i worked on we put a four man canopy on ? :)

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

We repaired it adding almost one new side ,over half the deck , new blukheads , knees , new floor in cockpit , along with adding a 4 man canopy and the list goes on . i do not know who owns the boat now but it was shipped to Bob Morgans , Big Thunder Marine who had a buyer for the boat . I have ran threads on previous sites trying to find out where the location of the boat is now just out of curiosity .:)

Are you sure it is the same boat? What year did you repair it?

[Ted]

Oh, okay, I don't think that is the same boat. It has 2 2 man canopies and 4 seats. I think it was owned by Jack when he died, but not the race boat he died in. In fact this boat has AC and I was told Jack built it for Poker Runs. Sorry for the confusion.

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

thank you for the complment . I have to say that i really enjoyed working on that boat and seeing it go thru all the stages of repair from a total wreck to running on the water again . I was just curious could you post some pics of the old girl and are you sure we are talking about the same boat that Jack Carmondy got killed in that was called CARLOS N CHARLIES X-TREME because the boat i worked on we put a four man canopy on ? :)

They boats Ted shared is a 46. The one Jack was killed in is a different boat. It think it was a 42 or 3? It was the same later raced as the Yahoo boat I thought.

[Offshore Ginger]

Oh, okay, I don't think that is the same boat. It has 2 2 man canopies and 4 seats. I think it was owned by Jack when he died, but not the race boat he died in. In fact this boat has AC and I was told Jack built it for Poker Runs. Sorry for the confusion. Ted no problem .:)

[Offshore Ginger]

Jim the boat was a 42 and we started working on the boat around 02/03:) ....................Art

[OldSchool]

FYI, I just edited the title of this thread to "construction".....It was bothering me! :)

[scottc]

Oh, okay, I don't think that is the same boat. It has 2 2 man canopies and 4 seats. I think it was owned by Jack when he died, but not the race boat he died in. In fact this boat has AC and I was told Jack built it for Poker Runs. Sorry for the confusion.

It's NOT that boat. This boat was built for a racer that had died ad was never rigged untill 3-4 years later. Art Lilly knows the boat history very well. Hull has @ 50-75 hours on it. Was owned by Steve Stanly for a short time and maybe 2 other owners before him. Jack Carmondy never owned this one. And it has been raced in Key West 2 times, Once this past year and once by a past owner. A few local races here in Maryland, Ocean City and Cambridge.

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

It's NOT that boat. This boat was built for a racer that had died ad was never rigged untill 3-4 years later. Art Lilly knows the boat history very well. Hull has @ 50-75 hours on it. Was owned by Steve Stanly for a short time and maybe 2 other owners before him. Jack Carmondy never owned this one. And it has been raced in Key West 2 times, Once this past year and once by a past owner. A few local races here in Maryland, Ocean City and Cambridge.

Scott that is mostly correct. I understood the 46 was the one Jack showed off in Corpus that fateful year. I was there. The boat was there with motors on display having not been installed yet. He may not of ever ran it but it was his.
David W owned it and raced it in Key West in '01. Steve S had it next and raced it some locally. Todd H has had it since.

[Ted]

WOW, I am always impressed by the knowledge of all our wonderful members here at Serious Offshore.

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

Here is a pic of it in Key West '01. That was the year Bobby and William Moore joined the team of David and Art.

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[MOBILEMERCMAN]

Got me going now. That was a special year.

The first pic is from Sarasota '01. Davids' team ran 3 boats full season. Supercat, SuperV, Factory 2. I was lucky to be included.

Second pic shows the 46 and SuperV moments before the race in Key West the same year.

15913

15914

[OldSchool]

WOW, I am always impressed by the knowledge of all our wonderful members here at Serious Offshore.

Amazing, Isn't it??? :D :D:rofl:

Thanks for clearing that up Jim!!! That's a cool picture!:)

[cowisl]

The 42'?43' Carlos and Charlies boat was at CK motorsports for awhile.. Has a center pod canopy now.

[scottc]

Here is a nice one of it.

[Offshore Ginger]

The 42'?43' Carlos and Charlies boat was at CK motorsports for awhile.. Has a center pod canopy now. When i crewed with C-K Motorsports while working at Baker Eng , i was there glass man and did all of the repair and salvage of Carlos N Charlies and Jelly Belly Gone Again and yes we added a 4 man canopy to each boat !!!!! I would like to say once again that the old Carlos N Charlies was a 42 Skater and do you know where the old girl is now ?

[Offshore Ginger]

Here is a nice one of it. Great pic's , thanx

[Sean H]

When i crewed with C-K Motorsports while working at Baker Eng , i was there glass man and did all of the repair and salvage of Carlos N Charlies and Jelly Belly Gone Again and yes we added a 4 man canopy to each boat !!!!! I would like to say once again that the old Carlos N Charlies was a 42 Skater and do you know where the old girl is now ?

bob morgan still has it

[skaterdave]

know most of the boats back in the day were wood, aluminum, and fiberglass. But how are today’s boat built? (MTI, Fountains, Mystics, Cigarettes, Skaters, Outerlimits, Platinum, etc)

Do they all use the same basic materials, what material do they use carbon fiber? I see that Platinum uses an Autoclave, how does this help?


i don't think platinum every used a autoclave. to find and use an autoclave big enough to fit a 40' plus hull mold in it would be extremely expense. i thought that KR racing when first in business with Platinum might have done one or two boats in ohio but not sure about the autoclave process being done.

other than that, matbe the Victory guys in the middleast are doing them in an autoclave.

skater is still using mainly balsa-core, epoxy and just vacuum bagging

mti- not sure but looks like just vacuum bagging and epoxy

doug wright and outerlimits are the only 2 i know of the are using impregnators and post curing. and possible mystic. these two steps, using the impregnator and post curing are the best way to maximize the full potential strenght of the epoxy resin by post curing in a make shift oven and the impregnator to gain the strongest glass to resin weight ratio.

as far the delam on callan, who knows but other have had the same problem. one of the fountain v's -possibly pier 57, jay muller's 40 motion.
biggest problem is improper vacuum bagging and not having 100% bonding of core to glass

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

as far the delam on callan, who knows but other have had the same problem. one of the fountain v's -possibly pier 57, jay muller's 40 motion.
biggest problem is improper vacuum bagging and not having 100% bonding of core to glass

It isn't always the construction errors that lead to failure. If the boat is a few seasons old water intrusion whether from the inside or out can lead to the same result. IMO

[skaterdave]

It isn't always the construction errors that lead to failure. If the boat is a few seasons old water intrusion whether from the inside or out can lead to the same result. IMO

mercman, i wasn't saying always, but might be one of. as far as water intrusion, this is why a would perfer foam cored boat over a balsa-cored boat. the foam cores are much better with the water problem and the balsa is like a sponge.

[Ted]

mercman, i wasn't saying always, but might be one of. as far as water intrusion, this is why a would perfer foam cored boat over a balsa-cored boat. the foam cores are much better with the water problem and the balsa is like a sponge.


LOL when Jay Mueller's came apart in Ocean City, he left 2 laps worth of little balsa cubes all around the race course.

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

LOL when Jay Mueller's came apart in Ocean City, he left 2 laps worth of little balsa cubes all around the race course.

A little failed area grows into a huge mess once the water gets in. The shame is when a small soft spot goes unnoticed and gets big and ugly.

[BradH]

Balsa is not the issue; in fact, it is an excellent structural core material. End grain balsa will not transport water across the hull. It can happen to foam, just not as prevalent. Ever had a wet Whaler? Most of the issues stem from lamination of the core to skin...and its usually the top surface of the core that gives way.

Improper fabric impregnation techniques are the issue. Poor resin to structural fiber ratios and poor wet out or "dry spots" cause problems. It's why almost every competent builder wets the fiber out completely before it goes into the mold rather than "sucking" the resin in under a vacuum like the SCRIMP and similar processes. The vacuum bagging process these builders employ only removes the excess resin. Excess resin adds unnecessary weight and does not increase the structural capability of the composite.

[SHARKEY-IMAGES]

LOL when Jay Mueller's came apart in Ocean City, he left 2 laps worth of little balsa cubes all around the race course.

How about a look at this ? ;)

http://sharkeyimages.zenfolio.com/p541027519/slideshow




.

[Steve 1]

Balsa is not the issue; in fact, it is an excellent structural core material. End grain balsa will not transport water across the hull. It can happen to foam, just not as prevalent. Ever had a wet Whaler? Most of the issues stem from lamination of the core to skin...and its usually the top surface of the core that gives way.

Improper fabric impregnation techniques are the issue. Poor resin to structural fiber ratios and poor wet out or "dry spots" cause problems. It's why almost every competent builder wets the fiber out completely before it goes into the mold rather than "sucking" the resin in under a vacuum like the SCRIMP and similar processes. The vacuum bagging process these builders employ only removes the excess resin. Excess resin adds unnecessary weight and does not increase the structural capability of the composite.

Balsa is a great material from the single stand point of Cost it does However have several Achilles heels, Some of which is the transfer of impact directly to the internal skin and it's lack of resilience leads to a laminate that has to be designed a little heavier and is more failure prone in highly stressed conditions.

The comparison of the structural plastic cores which cost twice what balsa does to the cheap two part foam in a whaler is not really fair and not accurate.

The Coring such AS Core Cell are really The Super Cores and the ultimate in construction material. They have all the desired physical properties for high performance composite work, made from engineering plastics (SAN used in plastic cigarette lighter bodies) in highly controlled manufacturing processes.

[OldSchool]

How about a look at this ? ;)

http://sharkeyimages.zenfolio.com/p541027519/slideshow




.

That should buff right out!!!:sifone:

[Chris]

i don't think platinum every used a autoclave. to find and use an autoclave big enough to fit a 40' plus hull mold in it would be extremely expense. i thought that KR racing when first in business with Platinum might have done one or two boats in ohio but not sure about the autoclave process being done.


Jim Dyke (KR) told me that none of the boats were done in an autoclave. But, I was in Italy and visited Tencara and saw them remove an offshore cat ( I believe it was a 43) from their autoclave. I still have a photo but no idea on which of a couple hundred disks it's on. It gets kind of blurry- Tencara/Victory/KR/Platinum...

I wouldn't swear to it, but I remembered Callan's boat being a Tencara/Italy-produced boat.

[Steve 1]

Sharkey looks like the Balsa was bonded with a putty which is good and bad. A little too much vacuum and you pull the resin from the putty and the hotcoat into the core leaving Only the putties fillers behind which do nothing.

[skaterdave]

Balsa is not the issue; in fact, it is an excellent structural core material. End grain balsa will not transport water across the hull. It can happen to foam, just not as prevalent. Ever had a wet Whaler? Most of the issues stem from lamination of the core to skin...and its usually the top surface of the core that gives way.

Improper fabric impregnation techniques are the issue. Poor resin to structural fiber ratios and poor wet out or "dry spots" cause problems. It's why almost every competent builder wets the fiber out completely before it goes into the mold rather than "sucking" the resin in under a vacuum like the SCRIMP and similar processes. The vacuum bagging process these builders employ only removes the excess resin. Excess resin adds unnecessary weight and does not increase the structural capability of the composite.



brad i would argue that your completely wrong. take a piece of balsa core and a piece of Core cell and stick them in a bucket of water. i will admit that Balsa core is a good structural core as some of the high end foams - core cell, airex. but balsa is heavier and sucks up a lot of resin in the wet out process. i have worked with both balsa and the foams and i only use foam now. my first experience with balsa, i thought i had saturated the balsa properly after wetting the core out and letting it sit for several minutes and then applied my top layer. i came back the next day and had to redo that section since the balsa coring actually sucked all the resin out of the glass laminate, making it to dry and improperly bonding with the balsa. i have found using solid sheet foam and cut, fitting what i need works the best for me since i'm left with least amount joints.

steve 1 is right the "floatation" type foam used in whalers and other recreation boats is not a true structural foam and not to be used in a laminate structure at least for a race boat and also you right on the 'dry spots' if using a impregnator machine. i think that sometimes that in trying to acheive a lighter, stronger boat that the use of the impregnator is used to much.

as for vacuum bagging a wet laminate vs infusion. i'm not a big fan of infusion since if it is done up agianst a gelcoated surface and if a core is invloved, no one will ever know if there is a bonding issue on the outer skin since it can't be seen because of the gel coat pigment color. and also the vacuum bagging process does not 'suck' all the extra resin out. it does pull some of the excess, but it is not used or designed to do what the impregnator machine does which is too impregnate the glass fiber with an exact amount of resin. basically you can not go in there and hand layup a piece and expect the vacuum bag system to pull the all the excess resin out of the laminate and get down to the glass to resin ratios that you would get using a impregnator.

[skaterdave]

Jim Dyke (KR) told me that none of the boats were done in an autoclave. But, I was in Italy and visited Tencara and saw them remove an offshore cat ( I believe it was a 43) from their autoclave. I still have a photo but no idea on which of a couple hundred disks it's on. It gets kind of blurry- Tencara/Victory/KR/Platinum...

I wouldn't swear to it, but I remembered Callan's boat being a Tencara/Italy-produced boat.

i wasn't 100% sure about Platinum. don't know about the tenacara's. but KR would be the guy to answer that question. nothing agianst platinum, but in my opion KR was the brains behind that name and since leaving KR they haven't really done anything.

[Offshore Ginger]

bob morgan still has itSean thanks for the info very interesting .

[Offshore Ginger]

i wasn't 100% sure about Platinum. don't know about the tenacara's. but KR would be the guy to answer that question. nothing agianst platinum, but in my opion KR was the brains behind that name and since leaving KR they haven't really done anything. When i was employed at Skater we built a handfull of boats for Platinum and Chris is right to say that none of the boats were done in a Autoclave .:sifone:

[SHARKEY-IMAGES]

Sharkey looks like the Balsa was bonded with a putty which is good and bad. A little too much vacuum and you pull the resin from the putty and the hotcoat into the core leaving Only the putties fillers behind which do nothing.I was never fond of the putty.

My Bullet 130 I used hand laid chop mat very wet, pre-wet the balsa and pressed into the glass. She is 18 years old, been through hell and back... Still strong as ever...

See the whole lay up here:

http://sharkeyimages.zenfolio.com/p570079324/slideshow

http://sharkeyimages.zenfolio.com/img/v4/p804367294-3.jpg

[Steve 1]

Tim very nice neat work!

[SHARKEY-IMAGES]

Thanks Steve!

The one thing I changed in the future layups was I feathered the chop mat as it ran up the bow so it would not to leave such a solid edge.
A shot of the final inside layer:
http://sharkeyimages.zenfolio.com/img/v4/p815560115.jpg

[Offshore Ginger]

Tim very nice neat work!I agree .:sifone:

[OneBadInjun]

Thanks Steve!

The one thing I changed in the future layups was I feathered the chop mat as it ran up the bow so it would not to leave such a solid edge.
A shot of the final inside layer:
http://sharkeyimages.zenfolio.com/img/v4/p815560115.jpgIs that a 40 or 45 foot big vee hull? Are you building them now?

[SHARKEY-IMAGES]

Is that a 40 or 45 foot big vee hull? Are you building them now?

No.

That would be this one that is being built by Hydra whom I used to work for:

More photos: http://sharkeyimages.zenfolio.com/p100583851


http://sharkeyimages.zenfolio.com/img/v6/p764343292-4.jpg

[BradH]

Foam in a Whaler is a structural material, just not a core like we are familiar. Comparing the two was not fair, however it does show that foam in general can have its problems. Other builders like Edgewater and Everglades are especially fond of it. But that’s a completely different type of construction.

Balsa does have many shortcomings as you guys pointed out. Absorption of both water and resin is at the top. I think I’ve seen a “skinned” balsa material that may alleviate some of theses issues.

Personal opinion is that the new polymer core materials are the way to go for high end construction. As said earlier they are available in almost any weight and cut. Has any material been developed that outperforms marine grade ply for transoms?

Resin infusion is attractive for large production builders where they are trying to control VOC emissions.

The big issue with any of this is preventing water from penetrating the inner or outer layers in the first place.

[Offshore Ginger]

Hey Steve #1 - Tim - sharky , Just curious guys have we been doing this to long and how many years have you been in the business ? I personally have over thirty years experience in the field and i guess that qualifies me as an old goat roper .:sifone:

[SHARKEY-IMAGES]

I started around 1984 and got out around 1995 ??? But non the less I always admire a good clean lay up. ;)

[Steve 1]

Hey Steve #1 - Tim - sharky , Just curious guys have we been doing this to long and how many years have you been in the business ? I personally have over thirty years experience in the field and i guess that qualifies me as an old goat roper .:sifone:

Glass work As a life style LOL ? 78 when I knocked the Bottom out of my raceboat in the Magnum Marine Bahamas 100 and figured I could do it better myself! I was always fooling with fiberglass it was cheap and you could make anything out of it.
.

[Steve 1]

Foam in a Whaler is a structural material, just not a core like we are familiar. Comparing the two was not fair, however it does show that foam in general can have its problems. Other builders like Edgewater and Everglades are especially fond of it. But that’s a completely different type of construction.

Balsa does have many shortcomings as you guys pointed out. Absorption of both water and resin is at the top. I think I’ve seen a “skinned” balsa material that may alleviate some of theses issues.

Personal opinion is that the new polymer core materials are the way to go for high end construction. As said earlier they are available in almost any weight and cut. Has any material been developed that outperforms marine grade ply for transoms?

Resin infusion is attractive for large production builders where they are trying to control VOC emissions.

The big issue with any of this is preventing water from penetrating the inner or outer layers in the first place.

Dude here is some testing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRzyw0Jo8Zg

The first one is Airex R63.80 Next is A 400 then A 600 Corecell Then 2 Cross linked foams and the two Balsa samples Structural cores are not Poured !!They are made in very controlled conditions and should never be confused with the Cheap two part systems AS they start life as a Real Engineering Plastic. BTW water will not hurt them for say 300 years Hell Airex is PVC.

[skaterdave]

nice demo. what was that third core? looked like divinacell?? and i assume the last is balsa? heres a few pics of a project we've been just finishing

[Offshore Ginger]

nice demo. what was that third core? looked like divinacell?? and i assume the last is balsa? heres a few pics of a project we've been just finishing What is it , a lab strake hull for a Jersey Skiff..............orrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr please do not tell me it is for a ragger boat:26::26::26:

[Steve 1]

nice demo. what was that third core? looked like divinacell?? and i assume the last is balsa? heres a few pics of a project we've been just finishing

Yes it was Divinycell on the third test set the last two panels were Balsa.

Way Cool Job BTW

[skaterdave]

What is it , a lab strake hull for a Jersey Skiff..............orrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr please do not tell me it is for a ragger boat:26::26::26:

aaaahhhh yes, wondering if anyone would know what a skiff is.

steve 1, gotta watch i know alot of guys like the airex over the corecell, but from what i've been told its not good for decks or hull sides that would get a lot of heat from the sun.

[THEJOKER]

Secret spy pic.

[Steve 1]

aaaahhhh yes, wondering if anyone would know what a skiff is.

steve 1, gotta watch i know alot of guys like the airex over the corecell, but from what i've been told its not good for decks or hull sides that would get a lot of heat from the sun.

Got to be careful it is PVC and you can have a problem on a dark boat,But It has the the highest Peel Strength of all the cores and you can deform the cells like 80% before rupture and it spreads loading out well. I have a lot of history with it.

[BradH]

Dude here is some testing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRzyw0Jo8Zg

The first one is Airex R63.80 Next is A 400 then A 600 Corecell Then 2 Cross linked foams and the two Balsa samples Structural cores are not Poured !!They are made in very controlled conditions and should never be confused with the Cheap two part systems AS they start life as a Real Engineering Plastic. BTW water will not hurt them for say 300 years Hell Airex is PVC.

Yah the new engineered cores are amazing, and let's get off the older technology two-part foams for a completely different type of boat. I did not know the new Airex had so much elasticity. Is the stiffness still as high as the others? Whats the loading and panel width?

What are you guys' thoughts on transom cores?

[JnT]

Great info. Thanks for the education.
Jim

[Steve 1]

Yah the new engineered cores are amazing, and let's get off the older technology two-part foams for a completely different type of boat. I did not know the new Airex had so much elasticity. Is the stiffness still as high as the others? Whats the loading and panel width?

What are you guys' thoughts on transom cores?

Coosa has some material Mantex has been around for a while.

Airex lets put it this way; I built a 1188 pound 36 foot 9 foot beam Cat from it in 91 and I can do much better nowadays. Stiffness S-Glass or S glass Carbon blend would I imagine produce the best numbers depending on the facings filiment content.

[THEJOKER]

We've done Coosa and plywood. 0 failures.

[THEJOKER]

Some of our new work. I have a talented partner!

[Steve 1]

Some of our new work. I have a talented partner!

Real nice looking stuff !!

[SHARKEY-IMAGES]

Demo from DIAB at the IBEX Show:


http://sharkeyimages.zenfolio.com/img/v4/p984524081-4.jpg


http://sharkeyimages.zenfolio.com/img/v4/p710267661.jpg


http://sharkeyimages.zenfolio.com/img/v4/p799381064-5.jpg


http://sharkeyimages.zenfolio.com/img/v4/p1059465716-4.jpg

[Steve 1]

They have a grooved resin runner core system It works well.

[THEJOKER]

Some more of our work.

[SHARKEY-IMAGES]

Some more of our work.
Nice !!!

Sometimes I wish I was back to building boats.

It was something I always took pride in...

[Steve 1]

Some more of our work.

You fill the strakes good work!

[BradH]

Steve, is that C-Flex on your website?

Nice lookin boats.

[Offshore Ginger]

You fill the strakes good work! just curious what are you filling the strakes with Balsa or ? I was doing molds for P.Q. part time when i worked at Skater and they used DBF for the strakes , i could not believe it and talk about old school , but then again almost every mag i owned before the 80's had a resin and sawdust material that they used to fill the strakes .

[Steve 1]

Steve, is that C-Flex on your website?

Nice lookin boats.

It is all Airex I have had good luck with it.

[Steve 1]

just curious what are you filling the strakes with Balsa or ? I was doing molds for P.Q. part time when i worked at Skater and they used DBF for the strakes , i could not believe it and talk about old school , but then again almost every mag i owned before the 80's had a resin and sawdust material that they used to fill the strakes .

I Just bagged Core/Corebond into the strakes then ground it flush.. In the old days they mixed a missmash of floor sweepings saw dust into the resin. I have ground into old boats and hit cigarette butts in the fill.

[Steve 1]

Here is an oldie, A one piece Cheetahcat out of a 3 piece Mold system.



http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/a2581d5773.jpg (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/)

[Steve 1]

Another picture Only with the mold sides still on.I could not find any decent 19 MM plywood over there so I clamped like 10 pieces of a real nice 5 MM with these Pnuematic clamps we built.

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/b324d192ec.jpg (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/)

[cosmic12]

This is great stuff guys, keep it come'n:cheers2:

[Offshore Ginger]

Another picture Only with the mold sides still on.I could not find any decent 19 MM plywood over there so I clamped like 10 pieces of a real nice 5 MM with these Pnuematic clamps we built.

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/b324d192ec.jpg (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/) I love it when we first started wideing hulls at Skater it was some what prehistoric until we devloped a system using gantries .

[Steve 1]

Pulling one out.


http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/4b4c538aae.jpg (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/)

[Steve 1]

Console base this and the top were out of a 10 part mold.

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/6e651e25b4.jpg (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/)

[Steve 1]

Here is one finished .

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/54dbbd232f.jpg (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/)

[Steve 1]

Another picture that is one of the Indians that I had in the crew Good Kid I taught him the Gelcoating Business. I had all Venus equiptment in those days .





http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/82846549bb.jpg (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/)

[Offshore Ginger]

Steve when you say overthere where is overthere and................ and if overthere is overthere , is it because of the cost of labor $$$$$$$$$$ and what are you mostly building ,pleasure / race / other , and what composites are you using , epoxy ,ext ,ext, ?.:)

[Steve 1]

Steve when you say overthere where is overthere and................ and if overthere is overthere , is it because of the cost of labor $$$$$$$$$$ and what are you mostly building ,pleasure / race / other and what composites are you using ?.:)

My Racing Market went to the Middle-East I setup in Kuwait was there for like 6 years after GW1

[Offshore Ginger]

My Racing Market went to the Middle-East I setup in Kuwait was there for like 6 years after GW1 So where is your location now and hopefully you are in the States , the good ole U S A :26:

[Steve 1]

Steve when you say overthere where is overthere and................ and if overthere is overthere , is it because of the cost of labor $$$$$$$$$$ and what are you mostly building ,pleasure / race / other and what composites are you using ?.:)

Personally I like the SP Systems/Gurit (off-shoot of West) and CoreCell, which they own. I’ve used about everything and they are the most health conscious of the lot.

I have kinda rattled about every corner of the box in this business, Gun-boats, Race Stuff, pleasure and fishing boats. Loved every minute of it.

[Steve 1]

The USA Oh yeah felt like kissing the Ground when I got back.

[Offshore Ginger]

The USA Oh yeah felt like kissing the Ground when I got back. :rofl::rofl: I bet
:rofl::rofl::rofl: Aint nothin like the good ole U S A . :26::26:

[Steve 1]

:rofl::rofl: I bet
:rofl::rofl::rofl: Aint nothin like the good ole U S A . :26::26:

Amen Brother!!

[Offshore Ginger]

Just curious guys , do you think this thread should be moved to Glassdaves neck of the woods , seeing that we have pretty much stolen this thread .:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::biggrinjester:

[OneBadInjun]

Great photos fellas. Both of you are up to your elbows in resin, lol. Where do you work at the moment Steve1?

[Steve 1]

Great photos fellas. Both of you are up to your elbows in resin, lol. Where do you work at the moment Steve1?

I work on on my own doing boats,molds and special projects.

[Steve 1]

Steve, is that C-Flex on your website?

Nice lookin boats.

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/4fd9f8e959.jpg (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/)

Here is the tunnel going togeather in one of my raceboats that is 1" Airex being bent in with this roller fixture.. I left the bottom open so I could fasten the core on the backside with #14 Screws to Battens in the hull Jig.

[THEJOKER]

Pulling one out.


http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/4b4c538aae.jpg (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/)


Nice stuff there!

[DPT MOTORSPORTS]

Awesome thread. I love this stuff.

[THEJOKER]

More pics.

[Steve 1]

More pics.

Nice molds and Molding a lot of work goes into those ..I did Dannys Molds at PP and respect the effort and expense that it takes to have nice Tooling.

[THEJOKER]

26 build.

[Steve 1]

26 build.

Cool slide show thank you for putting it up

[THEJOKER]

Cool slide show thank you for putting it up

I have a very talented partner David Goode. He's a great guy! He's very talented and honest. We are going places. The new 41 will be complete very soon! Wait until you see some things we incorporated in her.

[Offshoredrillin]

I have a very talented partner David Goode. He's a great guy! He's very talented and honest. We are going places. The new 41 will be complete very soon! Wait until you see some things we incorporated in her. how about the 41 poker run? I still have the quote from beau...:D

[JupiterSunsation]

I have a very talented partner David Goode. He's a great guy! He's very talented and honest. We are going places. The new 41 will be complete very soon! Wait until you see some things we incorporated in her.

We miss having David down here...........The guy is a magician with fiberglass.

[Offshore Ginger]

Nice molds and Molding a lot of work goes into those ..I did Dannys Molds at PP and respect the effort and expense that it takes to have nice Tooling. I also have the same respect for what is involved in the building the plug / mold and talk about the tooling WOW , i assisted in the building of Skaters 28,36 ,40,and 46 and talk about man hour's

[Steve 1]

I also have the same respect for what is involved in the building the plug / mold and talk about the tooling WOW , i assisted in the building of Skaters 28,36 ,40,and 46 and talk about man hour's

Yep That is why I have no Good feelings for the Splashers. They have done huge damage to our industry.

[cosmic12]

Just curious guys , do you think this thread should be moved to Glassdaves neck of the woods , seeing that we have pretty much stolen this thread .:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::biggrinjester:

I agree and I think that there should be a new section added for this kind of stuff along with restoreations. I think there are alot of people missing this because of where it is. I have put the question up to the Board about haveing a special section for this kinda info (personally I think its needed) What do you guys think? And agian thanks guys this is a GREAT thread.

[Geronimo36]

Great Thread!

As George Carlin said once; "Got put humans on earth to invent plastic!"

[THEJOKER]

how about the 41 poker run? I still have the quote from beau...:D

Yes we have Beau's 41 Apache molds and we can build one anytime you guy's are ready. We have a big shop.

[THEJOKER]

more

[OneBadInjun]

I work on on my own doing boats,molds and special projects.Great, wheres your shop located? In Ft. lauderdale, correct? Good to know someone in fiberglas with talent.

[Steve 1]

Yes I am in Beautiful Fort Lauderdale worked all over but always come back home.

[SHARKEY-IMAGES]

Did someone say restorations ??? :D

http://sharkeyimages.zenfolio.com/p989594486/slideshow

http://sharkeyimages.zenfolio.com/img/v4/p982726545.jpg

[Geronimo36]

Too bad I don't have any pics from when we put a new bottom in my old Scarab.... 7ft section of the keel was delaminated..cut it out completely, glassed it back in with a make-shift mold and ran a keel stringer with a few other lateral stringers... Also blue printed the bottom while we were at it and by the time I got the boat out of the shop it was 3-4 mph faster. Thanks to Frank at Fiberglass Plus, he did the bottom work and I did the blueprinting. :)

[SHARKEY-IMAGES]

You did the blue printing ? Cool! Now you have a 1st hand feel of what the glass guys got to go through to do that. Did F-Plus flipped the boat over for ya or did you do it on your back ?

[Geronimo36]

You did the blue printing ? Cool! Now you have a 1st hand feel of what the glass guys got to go through to do that. Did F-Plus flipped the boat over for ya or did you do it on your back ?

They flipped it on 45* for me so I could do one side at a time... This was 1998 timeframe so I was still working at the marina.. I'd work in the shop till 4:30 pm then drive down to Franks and work on the boat until 11pm every night... Long days, lots of work...

My fiberglass work goes back to when I was a teenager, I was shaping and glassing surfboards at 13 yrs old. Then when I was a mechanic I was always the resident glass guy. One project at the marina I put a new bottom on a waverunner... The owner ran over a piling and ripped a pretty good size hole in the bottom..

I guess I've been playing around for a number of years, just never got to build a boat.. Who knows, maybe one day!

[SHARKEY-IMAGES]

I had no idea ! Very cool !

[BradH]

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/4fd9f8e959.jpg (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/)

Here is the tunnel going togeather in one of my raceboats that is 1" Airex being bent in with this roller fixture.. I left the bottom open so I could fasten the core on the backside with #14 Screws to Battens in the hull Jig.

I looked quick at a pic on your website and thought it was cflex...talking to Cosker about boats one day and thought his first Mystic was this system.

Anyway, your tooling is really slick...all of those curves are not simple to mold.

How is the business in the US compared to overseas?

On a side note, I thought Peter was sent a check to "pay" for a boat splashed overseas?

[THEJOKER]

more.....

[Steve 1]

I looked quick at a pic on your website and thought it was cflex...talking to Cosker about boats one day and thought his first Mystic was this system.

Anyway, your tooling is really slick...all of those curves are not simple to mold.

How is the business in the US compared to overseas?

On a side note, I thought Peter was sent a check to "pay" for a boat splashed overseas?
I have been using Airex since the early 80's Tom Johannsen is a friend of mine .
The Market over in the Middle-East was good for a while then it got flooded with popped boats (two of mine even) We did a lot of Military Boats which is a good market Like they come in and order them by the dozen.

The funny thing is That it all kind of balances out, Our overhead here is Pricey whereas over in say Kuwait the Building, Labor ,Electric is cheap but you have to bring everything in ,
I was ordering 6 months in advance for Glass ,Core ,Trailer Parts ,Rigging and so forth and that was expensive with the containers and the agent added in. so it sort of balanced in favor of working here.

[BradH]

I have been using Airex since the early 80's Tom Johannsen is a friend of mine .
The Market over in the Middle-East was good for a while then it got flooded with popped boats (two of mine even) We did a lot of Military Boats which is a good market Like they come in and order them by the dozen.

The funny thing is That it all kind of balances out, Our overhead here is Pricey whereas over in say Kuwait the Building, Labor ,Electric is cheap but you have to bring everything in ,
I was ordering 6 months in advance for Glass ,Core ,Trailer Parts ,Rigging and so forth and that was expensive with the containers and the agent added in. so it sort of balanced in favor of working here.

Kinda nice having Lewis, Merritt, and National Marine Suppliers just down the street. Throw in some engine builders too.

Can you share any info or pics of the military boats?

[Steve 1]

Kinda nice having Lewis, Merritt, and National Marine Suppliers just down the street. Throw in some engine builders too.

Can you share any info or pics of the military boats?

Sure I will dig them out,Merritt handles Corecel also uses it in their way high end Sportfishing boats

[tunnelvision69]

any idea how light a strait bottom top gun could be made today in a max effort? and would it run with a new step bottom from the factory? just curious, great thread by the way

[Steve 1]

any idea how light a strait bottom top gun could be made today in a max effort? and would it run with a new step bottom from the factory? just curious, great thread by the way



The Problem as I see it is the bow flair, if you lighten the thing up with it’s current aspect ratio it will be a "hand full" in offshore conditions unless a bow tank was provided to add some mass foreword like the bow.

This is how light boats got a bad name; well aside from Idiots leaving “things” Out instead of Engineering the Weight out through substation with better Material, Strategy and shop practices too continue:

Yes the boat can be built under 2000 pounds not really trying ,ready for nuts and bolts, BUT you are making: For sake of words here, a “Heavy Design Light!” And yes it will leave the heaver Stepped bottom tied to the dock in light sea conditions remember F= ½ MV Squared… F=Force M= Mass V= velocity so moving the M-Mass number down one can see a dramatic change taking place to the Force needed and the resulting Velocity.

[DPT MOTORSPORTS]

Steve what are your thoughts on some of the new designs racing Class III this year on Dubai? You have been around along time and would like to hear what you think?

[Steve 1]

Steve what are your thoughts on some of the new designs racing Class III this year on Dubai? You have been around along time and would like to hear what you think?


I am trying to see how breaking off from the UIM will affect the S-Class racing and rulings there.

[DPT MOTORSPORTS]

Are any of your designs still racing in that series? The new Ocke Mannerfelt/Victory seems to be a nice peace. There is another design but I forget the name that is very fast in the calm water there as well.

[Steve 1]

Are any of your designs still racing in that series? The new Ocke Mannerfelt/Victory seems to be a nice peace. There is another design but I forget the name that is very fast in the calm water there as well.

No I have nothing there right now that I know of ,I left 1 10 Meter Cat in Kuwait ready to go.and I was due to go back but having second thoughts on it.

[DPT MOTORSPORTS]

Gotcha.

[Offshore Ginger]

I work on on my own doing boats,molds and special projects. Same here , i will be starting a series of gas tanks on Skater's next week and i just went up north here in Mich to play in the snow for a week and ...................... WOW has this thread grown :26:

[Offshore Ginger]

I agree and I think that there should be a new section added for this kind of stuff along with restoreations. I think there are alot of people missing this because of where it is. I have put the question up to the Board about haveing a special section for this kinda info (personally I think its needed) What do you guys think? And agian thanks guys this is a GREAT thread. I agree this thread should be moved to Glassdaves fiberglass section , for the pure fact that is why it was started and talk about some OLD and i mean OLD glass guys on this thread ........ he he he he

[Ted]

Ask and you shall receive :D

[Offshore Ginger]

I looked quick at a pic on your website and thought it was cflex...talking to Cosker about boats one day and thought his first Mystic was this system.

Anyway, your tooling is really slick...all of those curves are not simple to mold.

How is the business in the US compared to overseas?

On a side note, I thought Peter was sent a check to "pay" for a boat splashed overseas? Note: Randy took care of that almost in the same way he started M T I .

[DPT MOTORSPORTS]

Steve,

Any pics of the 10M you left there?

[Offshore Ginger]

Kinda nice having Lewis, Merritt, and National Marine Suppliers just down the street. Throw in some engine builders too.

Can you share any info or pics of the military boats? I have to say that the early years over there were awsome and to think that Sterling was shipping #10 or more engines at a crack and Merc with with #6 drives and not to mention the boat loads of materials going to Dubi that Pete assisted in in helping them get, along with his knowledge of boat building .

[Offshore Ginger]

Ask and you shall receive :D Thank's Ted this is where it should be . TECH FORUMS :26: GLASSDAVES !!!!:sifone:

[glassdave]

well lookie there . . . . great thread! . . . thanks Ted :cool:

[Offshore Ginger]

well lookie there . . . . great thread! . . . thanks Ted :cool: Wellllllllllllll if you would drop in every once and a while , in stead of.......................... OFF :rofl::rofl::rofl:& i will let you figure that one out . :rofl::rofl:

[cosmic12]

well lookie there . . . . great thread! . . . thanks Ted :cool:

Yes one of the best threads in a long time. But where did everyone go? Its been a few days. Come on guys we are need more you can't just tease us with a couple days worth and then stop, we need more:drool5::drool5:

[Steve 1]

Steve,

Any pics of the 10M you left there?

I will see if any survived the hurricane. I had a lot of pictures destroyed when the roof came off this place.

[tunnelvision69]

Yes one of the best threads in a long time. But where did everyone go? Its been a few days. Come on guys we are need more you can't just tease us with a couple days worth and then stop, we need more:drool5::drool5:
just like my wifes plants you move it & it dies:(

[OneBadInjun]

just like my wifes plants you move it & it dies:(lol.:)

[Offshore Ginger]

Yes one of the best threads in a long time. But where did everyone go? Its been a few days. Come on guys we are need more you can't just tease us with a couple days worth and then stop, we need more:drool5::drool5: well lets fire this mother f**ker up , yea baby :26::26: I would like to note that some of us old fu*ks , dream about the good ole days when raceing was raceing and the poorest mother fu*ker could be the baddest there was on a K-Mart budget :26::26: so come on we need your input as well .:26:

[RLJ676]

Has anyone here heard of Trident boats out West? He uses resin infusion, and corecell I believe, which I think has been discussed here.

He seems to have done a lot of homework on his hull design and construction. Any comments on it? He used to post a lot on Hotboat and seemed pretty knowledgable and a good guy.

http://www.tridentboats.com/sub/subpagelayout.html

[Ratickle]

Has anyone here heard of Trident boats out West? He uses resin infusion, and corecell I believe, which I think has been discussed here.

He seems to have done a lot of homework on his hull design and construction. Any comments on it? He used to post a lot on Hotboat and seemed pretty knowledgable and a good guy.

http://www.tridentboats.com/sub/subpagelayout.html

Just read all his stuff. Sounds good, 94 with a single 550 Illmor is real sweet. Check with IllmorDude and see if he's driven/ridden in it.

[Steve 1]

Has anyone here heard of Trident boats out West? He uses resin infusion, and corecell I believe, which I think has been discussed here.

He seems to have done a lot of homework on his hull design and construction. Any comments on it? He used to post a lot on Hotboat and seemed pretty knowledgable and a good guy.

http://www.tridentboats.com/sub/subpagelayout.html

Boats look nice but it seems the west coast guys like to stick a lot of things on the bottom. A well-designed Cat is hard to beat remember everything you drag through the water has a penalty attached. Infusion is a good way to go for production and the Core Cell is a must, now a real race boat Bagged Baked Prepreg is the only way to go.

[RLJ676]

Boats look nice but it seems the west coast guys like to stick a lot of things on the bottom. A well-designed Cat is hard to beat remember everything you drag through the water has a penalty attached. Infusion is a good way to go for production and the Core Cell is a must, now a real race boat Bagged Baked Prepreg is the only way to go.


Yeah, I don't get the impression the boat would work as well if increased in scale for big water. I think it's mostly designed for lake's like Havasu, etc, as most of those boats with a training wheel are. However, he is a big proponent that you don't need heavy for big waves, just a good design and strong hull.

I'd really like to see some pics of the military version as it is meant for bigger water, and I've read him saying it has gotten some great feedback?

I don't think you can argue with the efficiency guys are getting with a center pod design. I think the two fastest boats out there for the power (in a smaller single) are the Trident and the RPM 26, both of which were designed from a clean sheet and have a pod. But as 26/28's they aren't meant for the type of use a real deep tunnel would be.

[BradH]

well lets fire this mother f**ker up , yea baby :26::26: I would like to note that some of us old fu*ks , dream about the good ole days when raceing was raceing and the poorest mother fu*ker could be the baddest there was on a K-Mart budget :26::26: so come on we need your input as well .:26:

And us young dumb kids are loving every minute of it. I'm lucky to be involved in a couple cool projects...and then there's the racing...Still can't believe I will have been working on the raceboats for four years now.

So keep the experience and the stories coming...It's the best way for us to learn.

Brad.

[Steve 1]

Yeah, I don't get the impression the boat would work as well if increased in scale for big water. I think it's mostly designed for lake's like Havasu, etc, as most of those boats with a training wheel are. However, he is a big proponent that you don't need heavy for big waves, just a good design and strong hull.

I'd really like to see some pics of the military version as it is meant for bigger water, and I've read him saying it has gotten some great feedback?

I don't think you can argue with the efficiency guys are getting with a center pod design. I think the two fastest boats out there for the power (in a smaller single) are the Trident and the RPM 26, both of which were designed from a clean sheet and have a pod. But as 26/28's they aren't meant for the type of use a real deep tunnel would be.

A lot of us design our own Boats. (Hate Splashers ) The last thing I would do is add friction as we work hard at eliminating it, excuse me but I have problems justifying a third element hanging down in contact with the water..

[Audiofn]

I was wondering what happened to this thread!! Glad it is back.

[Offshore Ginger]

Has anyone here heard of Trident boats out West? He uses resin infusion, and corecell I believe, which I think has been discussed here.

He seems to have done a lot of homework on his hull design and construction. Any comments on it? He used to post a lot on Hotboat and seemed pretty knowledgable and a good guy.

http://www.tridentboats.com/sub/subpagelayout.html Hot boat is Hot boat and if you think about it not much has really come from the west coast as far as true offshore boats and besides most of the boats i see in Hot Boat mag are flat bottoms ,drag boats or anything that is powered with a jet drive or other .

[Offshore Ginger]

A lot of us design our own Boats. (Hate Splashers ) The last thing I would do is add friction as we work hard at eliminating it, excuse me but I have problems justifying a third element hanging down in contact with the water.. :iagree: I agree 100% with Steve about ( Splashers ) they always seem to let someone else do all the work and try to reep the reward . I have to say that when i was at Skater even after the mold was built there would still be a lot of tweeking involved and to let a splasher get all that for free .:(:mad::puke:

[RLJ676]

Hot boat is Hot boat and if you think about it not much has really come from the west coast as far as true offshore boats and besides most of the boats i see in Hot Boat mag are flat bottoms ,drag boats or anything that is powered with a jet drive or other .

They mostly make "lake boats" out there for sure, but there's more than little hot rods. Trident, DCB, Eliminator all make some bigger boats, but I'd still consider them more lake oriented.

What I don't fully get though, is if there is more drag with these center pod type designs, why would they be so fast. The speeds the RPM 26 and Trident hit with a single is pretty incredible.

Further, properly designed, a "tri-hull" would cut drag, as you get less boat in the water, and more on top of it wouldn't it?. The same way a cat is better than a V? There's more to it than just packing air I think.

[Steve 1]

They mostly make "lake boats" out there for sure, but there's more than little hot rods. Trident, DCB, Eliminator all make some bigger boats, but I'd still consider them more lake oriented.

What I don't fully get though, is if there is more drag with these center pod type designs, why would they be so fast. The speeds the RPM 26 and Trident hit with a single is pretty incredible.

Further, properly designed, a "tri-hull" would cut drag, as you get less boat in the water, and more on top of it wouldn't it?. The same way a cat is better than a V? There's more to it than just packing air I think.


Their speeds are not incredible! they are a bit off the mark if anything; Remember nothing beats a well-designed Cat period. Hell if adding drag is the key, just stick a few more hulls on the thing.