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KnotRight
12-18-2008, 06:47 PM
Here is a couple shots of the t53,s Before they go in for next season.

Considering it was my first build we decided to send them
back to the builder to give them the once over.

Back and ready for installation.

KnotRight
12-18-2008, 06:57 PM
Here is the oil Sump tanks.
They hold approx 4 gallons of Turbine oil.

satisfied
12-20-2008, 12:38 AM
Man I wish I had your talent

KnotRight
12-20-2008, 02:54 PM
Its easier to rig a Turbine compared to its piston counterpart.



Here is the Solenoid that kills the fuel. This is what shuts down the engine.
I wired this to the laynard also. This is available thru Mark NYE out of canada.
In a helicopter it is done with the throttle. One click beyond ground idle kills
the engine.


Also pictured is the starter generator.This is a 24 volt unit.
It puts out 300 amps.

SCS gearboxes makes a upper mount for this.

Audiofn
12-21-2008, 09:28 AM
Do you have to wire a second set of batteries for the starter?

KnotRight
12-21-2008, 10:57 AM
I run two 12,s for the boat in parrell.
I run two 12,s in series for each Turbine.

Two 600 amp contactors in parrell kick the starter portion in the A$$ on
spool up.

Then a reverse current relay takes over (after start) and back feeds
the two series 12,s.

There is also a Alternator driven off the starboard driveshaft
to charge the 12 volt.

All cables are 00 welding type.

There are simpler ways to achieve this with less batterys.
But I wanted redundencie.

tango
12-21-2008, 02:46 PM
Jon, that is 1 bad ass set up he has ! tryin 2-get him to come up to Maine sometime. 2-fold prob. though need a suitable launch ramp ( maybe the basin ) what do ya think ? and also need over=width permiting from MA thru NH to ME it would be just WILD @ the P.R. in July. maybe keep her @ biggus's OR ? :seeya::driving: where's Artie ?

KnotRight
12-21-2008, 03:10 PM
Here is the intakes. New for 2009. I had them enlarged by 30%.

This provides more fresh air to the Turbine.

Some Turbine riggers draw from the engine bay.
The combuster housing is at approx 500 degrees.

WE want cool dense air.

old377guy
12-21-2008, 03:28 PM
super cool stuff

tango
12-21-2008, 03:29 PM
G, he did a FAB. job on the expanded direct atmosphere induction intakes way koool !

Audiofn
12-21-2008, 08:05 PM
John, that is 1 bad ass set up he has ! tryin 2-get him to come up to Maine sometime. 2-fold prob. though need a suitable launch ramp ( maybe the basin ) what do ya think ? and also need over=width permiting from MA thru NH to ME it would be just WILD @ the P.R. in July. maybe keep her @ biggus's OR ? :seeya::driving: where's Artie ?

With planning anything is possible. There are a few ramps he could use. Actaually one that may be the best is the State Park ramp at the end of the river on the Sabego side. I am sure there are a few others even private ones like Jordan Bay Marine that could work. You have to be carefull in Jordan bay if the water is low with all the weeds in there. We had to clear out Biggus's water pick ups a few years ago.

One of these days I have to take a trip down there and check that missle out. :D

KnotRight
12-22-2008, 04:49 PM
Stop by anytime Jon.

I,m right off 95.


Here is the intake mounted to the Turbine.

The Third picture is a shot of the bellhousing.
This is machined for a SCS crashbox on one side and Machined for the Turbine
on the other.

The rotor is your basic wilwood available threw summit.
Caliper is also.

KnotRight
12-22-2008, 05:00 PM
Here it is assembled shown with the SCS crashbox.

KnotRight
12-23-2008, 09:15 AM
Some info on the Lycombing t53 L13B

This Turbine makes a good canidate for a boat Mainly for two reasons
Its output shaft spins at 6600 RPM and the Shaft can be stopped at
Ground Idle for up to a minute.

The secret lies in the ability to stop the output shaft.
This enables one to install a brake and caliper assembly allowing the use
of a direct gear to gear. (Crashbox).

So this means while the Turbine is running at idle one can utilize the brake
to shift from forward neutral reverse.

No clucthes to smoke or burn. Just shear Torque to your drives.

The 6600 output rpm is very close to our friendly Big Block Chevy rpm.

Fuel and air is all she needs to run.

Well now that I spewed all this BS. I,m going back to work.:26:

KnotRight
12-25-2008, 02:34 PM
Here is a video showing how you shift from forward neutral reverse

There are several ways to activate the caliper.
The way we do it here is Pnematic over hydraulic.

A micro switch located on the shifter activates a pneumatic solenoid
which sends air to a air piston mechanicaly attached to a GoKart
Master cylinder which in turn squeezes the caliper stoping the output
shaft.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HpbYDFGrkA

KnotRight
12-26-2008, 05:52 PM
Here is the upper plenum of the intake.
This bolts directly to lower intake.
There is also a Foreign object screen. This protects the Turbine from
injesting Bra,s, Small children or what not.
The internal spray bar is visible.
This is used for the methanol injection as well
as the compressor wash.

MOBILEMERCMAN
12-26-2008, 06:47 PM
Is the gearbox the only thing that needs cooling or does the turbine oil need it too?

KnotRight
12-26-2008, 07:10 PM
Actualy the SCS does not require cooling. The reason why it mounts thru
the intake is that is where the output shaft on this Turbine is located.
These are a cold shaft Turbines as for Example the PT6 is a hot shaft
engine.

Good question on the Turbine oil. It does require Cooling.
Pictured below is the coolers I am using.
The required temperture should 200 degrees.
I also run a modifed Canton oil T stat. To keep the Temp at 200.

MOBILEMERCMAN
12-26-2008, 07:13 PM
Thanks

Cool stuff

KnotRight
12-26-2008, 07:20 PM
I had to regroup on the way I initialy plumbed it.

We blew a water line off at 140 and the boat started to sink.
The only warning I had was the bildge indicator light was staying on.

It is now plumbed like this.

Water pickup to sea strainer then to cooler out of cooler to tee
one side of tee has check valve then dumped overboard. Other side of tee
goes to a Jabsco pump then out to dump.
The circulation pump is only used for long no wake zones.

tango
12-27-2008, 05:18 PM
port engine run up early 2008 www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-fBO6Ps-eM

KnotRight
12-28-2008, 04:00 PM
Here is a picture of the Caliper controller.
This is activated by a micro switch in the shift which sends voltage to the coil and the onboard air system will apply air to the cylinder which mechanicaly pushes the master cylinder which squeezes the caliper stoping the N2 on the turbine enabling a shift in and out of forward neutral reverse.

KnotRight
12-28-2008, 04:14 PM
Here is a picture of the 600 amp contactors for one engine.

The box in the middle is the reverse current relay.
This when activated charges the 24 volt battery pack.

KnotRight
12-28-2008, 04:34 PM
Here is the pictures of the Test Cell used in Dynoing
Turbine Engines.

This facility is FAA certified.


When they dynoed one of my Engines they went to lunch During the Pull.
Turbines are designed to Run for sustained periods at full power.


Try that with a bigblock.:)

tango
12-28-2008, 05:21 PM
g, ck out www.kahn.com hyd.dynamometers for kicks ! how about this ol'vid. very cold, early day in 08 www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-fBO6Ps-eM

glassdave
12-28-2008, 07:25 PM
Here is a picture of the Caliper controller.
This is activated by a micro switch in the shift which sends voltage to the coil and the onboard air system will apply air to the cylinder which mechanicaly pushes the master cylinder which squeezes the caliper stoping the N2 on the turbine enabling a shift in and out of forward neutral reverse.

just curious, how is N2 decoupled or isolated within the turbine to allow it to be stopped?


Great thread.

KnotRight
12-28-2008, 09:37 PM
Good Question.

The T53 is a "Free gas Turbine".
The N1 (gas producer) is completly isolated from N2 (Turbine).

In a Helicopter although I am no pilot The main Rotor can be stopped at ground idle.

tango
12-29-2008, 12:43 AM
they, being a helicopter has a secondary reduction gear box/trans set up ie: power take off, I believe :sifone: any 1 else just jump in :leaving: !

Rik
12-29-2008, 02:55 PM
just curious, how is N2 decoupled or isolated within the turbine to allow it to be stopped?


Great thread.

You remember what a "Daisy Wheel" looks like that kids play with or old people put in their yards?

Imagine blowing onto the daisy wheel and it will turn/spin.

Very similar concept. As the daisy wheel (N2) spins, it is connected to a shaft on a bearing. The N1 GP nozzle forces air onto the PT wheel and in turn spins the wheel and the shaft.

The shaft is splined to accept an input shaft and thus power is coupled.

This is the same for the hot shaft and the cold shaft engines. Therefore, there is no mechanical connection and you can stop the N2 from spinning provided you have sufficent means such as a caliper and rotor to do so.

Rik

KnotRight
12-29-2008, 08:15 PM
Nice example bro!

Rik
12-29-2008, 10:16 PM
Nice example bro!

Hey, what can I say. I've been around this for quite a while now.

KnotRight
12-29-2008, 10:33 PM
Hey, what can I say. I've been around this for quite a while now.

Dont let it go to ya head:26:

KnotRight
12-29-2008, 10:49 PM
Here is the oil tanks. The helicopter has something similar onboard.
These are 316 stainless.

These are designed to be mounted directly to the Turbine.
They hold approx 10 quarts. The Turbines lubrication consists of a
dry sump with pressure fed bearings and scavenge on all bearings also.

These tanks have a baffles in them as well as breathers.

tango
12-29-2008, 11:33 PM
Nice polish job ck.4-leaks now !

KnotRight
01-01-2009, 06:51 PM
Here is the exhaust.

Its is of 321 Stainless steel.
Its is run dry. Thermo wrap (header wrap).
Also a High heat thermo blanket.

The way it attaches to the Turbine is with 18 Stainless springs.
Which allows flex and minimal movement.
There is also a 1/2 inch gap allowing a venturi to help scavenge
the Combuster heat and evacuate heat in the engine bays

KnotRight
01-01-2009, 06:54 PM
There is also a catch can located at 6 oclock that catches any rain
water and aids in a compressor wash

bobkatz
01-01-2009, 07:53 PM
Great thread, always nice to see someone doing their own build!!!

tango
01-05-2009, 01:56 AM
Another run up "Starboard" sweet Kero. ! www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6-BuvVj8AY

BradH
01-05-2009, 06:47 PM
I'm sure you guys have seen it, but he did an excellent thread on the whole re-rig process on the other site...really good read. Brad.

tango
01-06-2009, 12:20 AM
Yep, just puttin it in another spot for a bump up on Turbine Philosophy and Velocity u-like ? GREAT ! ps: luv 2-go-2 New Orleans and ck. out Al's Ol'stompin grounds koool ! and thanks for postin, keep it a cominon ! :biggrinjester:--:seeya:

BradH
01-08-2009, 02:08 AM
Al always loved the turbines, who knows whats next for him...

KnotRight
01-09-2009, 10:44 PM
Thanks for the support guys!

Brad thanks again bro on your advice on the rerig!


Here is the completed assembly.

it measures 67 inches long and 35 inches high.

The assembled weight is approx. 600lbs
This engine will produce 1480SHP

The "FOD" screen (foreign object Damage).. (Bras, G-Strings, Seaguls) is visible.
The copper pipe coming out of the top of the intake is the
Methanol injection which doubles as a compressor wash.

When they first arrived I was amazed on how small they were.

tango
01-10-2009, 02:04 PM
G, need a break, weather wise, fire up the ol' backhoe and then getter-done ! PR vid. 2008 www.youtube.com/watch?v=fiFHOzHzx4o

tango
01-11-2009, 12:58 AM
Al always loved the turbines, who knows whats next for him...

may he rest in peace

skaterdave
01-11-2009, 10:36 PM
You remember what a "Daisy Wheel" looks like that kids play with or old people put in their yards?

Imagine blowing onto the daisy wheel and it will turn/spin.

Very similar concept. As the daisy wheel (N2) spins, it is connected to a shaft on a bearing. The N1 GP nozzle forces air onto the PT wheel and in turn spins the wheel and the shaft.

The shaft is splined to accept an input shaft and thus power is coupled.

This is the same for the hot shaft and the cold shaft engines. Therefore, there is no mechanical connection and you can stop the N2 from spinning provided you have sufficent means such as a caliper and rotor to do so.

Rik

hea for us dumbies. can you explain the connection between the two shafts in the motor. how does the power get bcak out if there is no mechical connection ?? is ther some kind of lock up converter?

KnotRight
01-12-2009, 06:10 PM
hea for us dumbies. can you explain the connection between the two shafts in the motor. how does the power get bcak out if there is no mechical connection ?? is ther some kind of lock up converter?

There is no mechanical connection between the two systems. N1, N2.
It is a "free Turbine"

N1 is the gas producer which means it produces Hot gas (Combustion)
that is directed and focused onto the Turbine Wheel (N2).
At low Rpm the Force is not significant enough so that the design
allows the N2 to be stopped without issue.

Picture a compressor airgun. EX. like a blow off nozzle that a garage uses
to blow debris off something.

If you put a free spinning Wheel in a vice. EX. Like a Computer fan.
If you apply the airgun to the fan the force of the air against the blades
will cause it to move. It will Move pretty fast also.

This is a basic analogy.

Here is another EX.
A Turbine wheel put in niagra falls would cause the wheel to spin.
The water being N1 (gas producer)
N2 being the Turbine.

Hope this helps SkaterBrother :)

KnotRight
01-12-2009, 06:38 PM
Here i go off to Geek ville!


The Basic gas turbine is comprised of three components.
Compressor, Combuster, and Turbine.

The basic gas turbine:
The Compressor is driven by the turbine through an interconnecting shaft.
Compressed air flows through combuster where it is mixed with with injected fuel. Ignited. These hot gases flow through the Turbine. The turbine extracts
energy through this. This is your Gas producer type Turbine.


The Turboshaft gas Turbine:
In a turboshaft engine the turbine provides power in excess of that required to drive the compressor. The excess power is apllied as driving torque available at an output shaft The power to drive the output shaft can be extracted eithier from the same turbine that drives the compressor or from a separate free wheeling turbine . This is free wheeling no mechanical connection.



The piston Gas motor makes power on the powerstroke of the piston.

The Turbine makes power continuously.

The Turbines found in our example here are a turboshaft engine.
These have a output shaft.
The Turbines found in the airplane you take to vegas are Turbofans.
These produce thrust! rated in Pounds.

Thats all the Spewing of BS i got for now.:seeya:

skaterdave
01-12-2009, 07:06 PM
so its like having two fans the first one making the power, (ie wind), and the second fan has the shaft connection and when the wind isn't stronger enough you can stop the fan blades.

KnotRight
01-12-2009, 07:37 PM
so its like having two fans the first one making the power, (ie wind), and the second fan has the shaft connection and when the wind isn't stronger enough you can stop the fan blades.

Yes in simple terms.


at 40% rpm of N1. The N2 is only making 22hp.

Now there is a thermal limit to how long you can keep it stopped.
Remember all those hot gases of N1 are now slamming against the
staytianary n2 blades.

1 minute would be close to the limit.

Turbines make 90% of there power uptop in RPM.

There rpms are measured in percent.
n1 max 26,500 rpm 105%
N2max 22,500 rpm 102% this is reduced via planetary output gears
located in the turbine to 6600rpm.

Bertram38
01-12-2009, 07:44 PM
I thought the correct words are suck -blow -bang. Is that in the coreect order.
That was Military talk.

KnotRight
01-12-2009, 08:14 PM
I thought the correct words are suck -blow -bang. Is that in the coreect order.
That was Military talk.


Yes Suck blow bang applies Here and at your local Gentlemens club.

old377guy
01-13-2009, 12:21 AM
Yes Suck blow bang applies Here and at your local Gentlemens club.


ok, NOW I get it:rofl:

BradH
01-14-2009, 12:31 AM
Thanks for the support guys!

Brad thanks again bro on your advice on the rerig!



No, thank you...for showing so many people that a turbine installation is much simpler than we all imagined (me included til I did one), and can be completed by someone with a little experience, time, and a budget.

BradH
01-14-2009, 12:31 AM
And Corona...think one or two may have been consumed...

DONZI
01-14-2009, 07:49 AM
:smash:Look's like installation time !
The Turbines echo off the surrounding buildings so much better when it's below 20 deg. out.:seeya:
The air boxes came out great !

KnotRight
01-14-2009, 08:58 PM
And Corona...think one or two may have been consumed...

YES The true secret behind the scenes:)


You hit it right on...........
Turbines may not be for everyone, However With a little bit of mechanical
ability and the drive it can be accomplished.

Hey what the heck I,m a used car salesman:26:
If I can do it anyone can.

Seriously I could supply measurements and any info that would aid in
a do it yourselfer.

The bell housings and brakes are already available over the counter.
The SCS gearboxes are from what else SCS.
Really the only custom would be exhaust and intake.
A Sheetmetal guy can do this.

There are several ways to install them. This way may not be the best
However, The boat runs, drives and shifts awsome.
One of the biggest things is they dont stall around the docks Second
to only the unbeleavable acceleration.:)

KnotRight
01-14-2009, 09:02 PM
:smash:Look's like installation time !
The Turbines echo off the surrounding buildings so much better when it's below 20 deg. out.:seeya:
The air boxes came out great !

Whaz up Kenny?

Beleave it was over a year ago when we dropped them in.

If memory serves me we got 6 inches of snow that night.


Dont be a stranger I could use a hand when we go for round two.:)

tango
01-15-2009, 11:57 PM
Ken, Happy New Year, and again thanks for the vid.clips ! dam cold out these days ! G, have a great vac. :sifone:

tango
01-30-2009, 12:23 AM
No-No-1, any ?'s RE: turbines and the great possbilities of their applications come on guys & galls shout out now ! has any 1 ever analyized a v-drive set up with a turbine ? --- ? or exhaust/engine cooling etc. everyone sleeping ? Artie-help us out dude. - :drool5::seeya::biggrinjester:

Rik
01-30-2009, 08:40 PM
No-No-1 any ?'s RE: turbines and the great possbilities of their applications come on guys & galls shout out now ! has any 1 ever analyized a v-drive set up with a turbine ? --- ? on exhaust/engine cooling etc. everyone sleeping ? Artie-help us out dude. - :drool5::seeya::biggrinjester:

Don't know what you are asking as you as it is difficult to follow your writing, but why would anyone need a V drive?

The engine can plug into the drive. Your asking why are the engines mounted rearward and the exhaust forward. Answer: drive line length. The engine is basically 48" long, the drive line would have to go this length plus. Also the engine would have to be mounted higher upward (when dealing with a Merc #6 that is). Then there is the cooling and such of the V drive which technically is a Parallel offset box. An actual V drive would put the engine at the typical 10 degree angle that is in the V drives.

Did I mention cost?

tango
01-31-2009, 07:37 PM
RIK, how are you ? Just tying to get feedback from the viewers. Must have had a few cocktails before the last post. The old War-Cry hull has turbines coupled to v-drives, thus: rear facing exhaust, built by the same folks that K.R. used. Nice shot of Howards boat in your avatar. :seeya:

KnotRight
02-01-2009, 01:59 PM
Don't know what you are asking as you as it is difficult to follow your writing, but why would anyone need a V drive?

The engine can plug into the drive. Your asking why are the engines mounted rearward and the exhaust forward. Answer: drive line length. The engine is basically 48" long, the drive line would have to go this length plus. Also the engine would have to be mounted higher upward (when dealing with a Merc #6 that is). Then there is the cooling and such of the V drive which technically is a Parallel offset box. An actual V drive would put the engine at the typical 10 degree angle that is in the V drives.

Did I mention cost?

Whaz up Man?

I like the idea of a straight Arneson....Drop the Turbine as low as possible
and use a Blower Belt to couple it.

Just to many right angles in the #6 drive.

Another idea would be to angle the turbine and run a u jointed drive shaft to
the input of the Arneson.

Rik if ya designed a direct replacement for the six like ya did the
Bravo we would be all set.

The limit in my case is the #6.

tango
02-02-2009, 01:28 AM
RIK, ck.it out, maybe you already have.

www.offshoreonly.com/forums/2422960-post354.html

www.offshoreonly.com/forums/2422963-post355.html

www.offshoreonly.com/forums/2422977-post356.html


just for kicks & giggles :rofl: - :sifone:

tango
02-02-2009, 01:39 AM
G, get Rik to send ya a pair off them ol'-drop-box-chain transom mount Arnesons so I can get a hold of the 6's LOL ps: oh ya need reverse rotation in the set up 4-u too. :)

Rik
02-02-2009, 01:40 AM
Gerry, all you'd have to do is plate the transom and install the Arneson:sifone:

The blower belt is what we did with Gordon Mineo. He actually got several hundred hours on the belt with no problems. Was doing the same thing on a single 32' with Mossmiller before his accident. It is a simple design and fairly cheap.

Rik
02-02-2009, 01:42 AM
G, get Rik to send ya a pair off them ol'-drop-box-chain transom mount Arnesons so I can get a hold of the 6's LOL ps: oh ya need reverse rotation too.

Oh, you are way behind in the times. The drive is counter rotating, no need for anything crazy.

tango
02-02-2009, 01:52 AM
If I can keep up with ya @ all that would be just fine and thank you ! Was just lookin @ your web site. J - nice pic.& set up in post #66

Rik
02-02-2009, 02:21 AM
Another view of a 40' Skater

KnotRight
02-02-2009, 08:30 PM
This is not exactly what I was refering to when I said a slight angle.
No offence to my boy who did this.
The lower the engine the better center of gravity.

One can only imagine how much stress will be on that setup in real water.

Rik where should my prop shaft centerline be in reference to my bottom?

KnotRight
02-02-2009, 08:49 PM
On Fuscos 40 the Arnesons look pretty deep.
I think he is sporting t58,s

BradH
02-02-2009, 11:56 PM
On Fuscos 40 the Arnesons look pretty deep.
I think he is sporting t58,s

Probably...not sure if you can stop them to shift, hence the outboard for low speeds? RPM too high, Rik?

THEJOKER
02-02-2009, 11:59 PM
You guy's are very sick in the head. That's some crazy hardware!

Rik
02-03-2009, 01:31 AM
Probably...not sure if you can stop them to shift, hence the outboard for low speeds? RPM too high, Rik?

No, it makes the neighbors happy more than anything. People get tired of hearing the noise from the turbines and there is always someone to complain.

Also, a separate power supply enables one to get back home if there is a problem.

I could put a brake and such on the motor, it's actually better than the T-53 as the brake dust won't go into the intake as its a hot shaft engine, but it isn't really worth it with the marinas and such.

tango
02-03-2009, 10:32 PM
So on the Fuscos boat how are the engines and the Arnesons coupled up ? Rik on K.R.'s boat the brake system is inline, but outside and aft. of the air intake. The intake air is not taken from the engine room, but ducted directly to the engines from the atmosphere. Can ya mail order that 40 to me LOL ? www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HpbYDFGrkA

tango
02-04-2009, 02:18 AM
photo - www.offshoreonly.com/forums/attachments/skater/318766d1199895209t-turbine-101-dscn0002.jpg

KnotRight
02-04-2009, 07:43 PM
After a closer inspection. Does Fusco have cable indicators on his steering
cylinders. Seems to be a good idea around the docks. But I would think thats
why he has the kicker motor.

KnotRight
02-04-2009, 08:02 PM
Notice the rocker plates.

I would imagine if they drop down far enough it would slow
the boat down bigtime.
By the looks of the outside rigging I would love the oportunity to view the rigging
inside. Well thought out to say the least.


http://inlinethumb07.webshots.com/14022/2875885290103938508S600x600Q85.jpg

Sean H
02-04-2009, 08:04 PM
After a closer inspection. Does Fusco have cable indicators on his steering
cylinders. Seems to be a good idea around the docks. But I would think thats
why he has the kicker motor.

steering angle info is probably even more important at 190

KnotRight
02-04-2009, 08:22 PM
steering angle info is probably even more important at 190

Good Point!


The twin rudder deal must corner like ya read about!

http://inlinethumb61.webshots.com/37116/2418873230103938508S600x600Q85.jpg

BradH
02-04-2009, 11:19 PM
Something to think about...because of the geometry of his drives, every time he steers side to side the height of the propeller in the water changes.

Are the little rudders on each drive really necessary?

Are the plates on each sponson movable?

tango
02-05-2009, 12:00 AM
The idea of the outside rudders is to compliment the flow of clean water directly to the wheel, as a result no forward turbulance is created by an intersecting forward rudder---what kind of a kicker does he use ? does it look like a water jet 2-U. Oh and G. the rockers look fixed. What year is the hull and length ? I like the v-in the rear part of the tunnel. Think they did away with it flat NOW. Rik fill us IN -- and I like the steering position indicators nice extra. But @ 190 it is the least of your concerns ! :patriot::seeya:

Perlmudder
02-05-2009, 12:16 AM
Something to think about...because of the geometry of his drives, every time he steers side to side the height of the propeller in the water changes.

Are the little rudders on each drive really necessary?

Are the plates on each sponson movable?

I don't think the geometry actually changes. I think that the rams on top of the drive would push down on the drive when the drive is going towards the outside to counteract the placement of the side rams being higher then the drive itself. so it would actually move level from side to side instead of up. mind you I have no real idea. but just an idea

tango
02-05-2009, 01:33 AM
correct: they being the drives, swing in the same plane; not in and up and down ark as they travel side to side when steering ! or do they ?

Rik
02-05-2009, 03:25 AM
There is so much to it.

More than meets the eye so to speak.

The Rocker Plates are adjustable from a push of a button. The steering indicator has nothing to do with the docking or running the boat.

The twin fin rudders do make the boat corner like its on rails.

Scott H.
02-05-2009, 08:43 AM
There is so much to it.

More than meets the eye so to speak.

The Rocker Plates are adjustable from a push of a button. The steering indicator has nothing to do with the docking or running the boat.

The twin fin rudders do make the boat corner like its on rails.

The steering indicator steers the jet ski motor right?

KnotRight
02-05-2009, 09:12 AM
The steering indicator steers the jet ski motor right?

No...Actualy look closely at the steering rams they have a cable indicator
mounted in parrel to it.]

This I would assume lets "Jet man Fusco" know where is Arnesons are at.

KnotRight
02-05-2009, 09:16 AM
I,m with Brad on the steering geometry.

There is a arch as the steering cylinders extract or expand.

Think of a smiley face not the one on Mikes face when hes driving it.:)



Tango I think ya hit it right on with the twin Rudders.

KnotRight
02-05-2009, 09:24 AM
I dug up a article in a old Extreme magazine.

Ron Polli had the oportunity to drive with him and the rockers act as a brake.
Almost slaming him into the dash. The boat traveled in 12 inches of water
shreading seagrass like a toro lawn mower. Corners like it is on rails.
Took him to 187mph.

Turbines and Arnesons Baby!:seeya:

tango
02-06-2009, 12:07 AM
K.R. I, that is me, beg to differ, on the steering - GEO. it has to stay in plane ! the out side rams just angle up or down with the movement side to side. Look @ "CAVEMAN" pics ! U want 2 arm wrestle on this ! Yep and I agree turbine + Arnesons///then there are 6's on the shelf. SO Rik the steering ind. are for simpliciy ie: are my drives straight on the trl, guys ? K.R. can ya post the "Ron Poli" article ? and where the H---is my H2O :drool5:

tango
02-06-2009, 12:30 AM
Brad and K.R. u thhhhhe man, but think of a compass drawing a circle with a stationary pin, it travels in a plane on a flat surface, the upper ram has a stationary so to speak center point. think what would happen if it did a complete circle based on the upper ram's center point it would draw a circle on a flat surface "knot" a roller coaster pattern. Rik, can ya help- - :boxing_smiley: - :boobflash: - :auto: But, then again where is the pivot point in the drive - Awh, maybe that is the answer and part of the reason for the wedged transom drive spacers ? :sifone: ok U win--:):) 's but then again we are not talkin 90* center points if the steering system did a complete circle the drives would actually start to dip @ 90* point left or right and then dip below or pass thru the rear sponsons. Whattta ya guys think ? as they travel left and right is there an arc ? is it an upside down 1 :( ?

Rik
02-06-2009, 02:07 AM
Wedge adapters? Not on Fusco's boat. The drop box units have a wedge cast into them but this is the same for Merc drives.

The indicators are there for the tie bar indicator nothing more. This version has no mechanical tie bar hence it is a "hydraulic" tie bar and an indicator to tell you if the drives are parallel.

The Rocker Plates are not a brake. Polli some times has a tough time with things it appears and Fusco certainly doesn't clear things up:rofl: They can create bow lift or bow down by the push of a button. This takes the porpoise out of the hull at those speeds also.

The drives will toe in/out on this design. I've changed this on the newest designs so that they do not do this anymore. (hence mechanical tie bar)

The outboard has no connection to the drive units. There is an indicator cable on the dash though that tells you where it is.

KnotRight
02-06-2009, 10:14 AM
Wedge adapters? Not on Fusco's boat. The drop box units have a wedge cast into them but this is the same for Merc drives.

The indicators are there for the tie bar indicator nothing more. This version has no mechanical tie bar hence it is a "hydraulic" tie bar and an indicator to tell you if the drives are parallel.

The Rocker Plates are not a brake. Polli some times has a tough time with things it appears and Fusco certainly doesn't clear things up:rofl: They can create bow lift or bow down by the push of a button. This takes the porpoise out of the hull at those speeds also.

The drives will toe in/out on this design. I've changed this on the newest designs so that they do not do this anymore. (hence mechanical tie bar)

The outboard has no connection to the drive units. There is an indicator cable on the dash though that tells you where it is.

So the steering rams are hydraulicly independent of each other?
Or does he just tweak the wheel to get it true on the indicators.

Eithier way its on my list for next years project.

KnotRight
02-06-2009, 10:54 AM
Brad and K.R. u thhhhhe man, but think of a compass drawing a circle with a stationary pin, it travels in a plane on a flat surface, the upper ram has a stationary so to speak center point. think what would happen if it did a complete circle based on the upper ram's center point it would draw a circle on a flat surface "knot" a roller coaster pattern. Rik, can ya help- - :boxing_smiley: - :boobflash: - :auto: But, then again where is the pivot point in the drive - Awh, maybe that is the answer and part of the reason for the wedged transom drive spacers ? :sifone: ok U win--:):) 's but then again we are not talkin 90* center points if the steering system did a complete circle the drives would actually start to dip @ 90* point left or right and then dip below or pass thru the rear sponsons. Whattta ya guys think ? as they travel left and right is there an arc ? is it an upside down 1 :( ?

The steering cylinders are on a different plane then the pivot point
of the prop shafts.

Wedge plates only change the angle of attack of the prop in relation to
the water. More "trim" or less depending on the wedge being at the base
or the top.

Coronas and Wings on me and will discuss

DONZI
02-06-2009, 05:25 PM
An example of how trim effects steering of the earlier design on my Boat -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hb-pJKdQiTs

A pic. of the new awsome ASD 7. Steering rams mounted parrell.

Rik
02-06-2009, 09:28 PM
An example of how trim effects steering of the earlier design on my Boat -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hb-pJKdQiTs

A pic. of the new awsome ASD 7. Steering rams mounted parrell.

Mind you, the one on your Donzi is far less noticable than on the standard ones.

With the new steering of the #7 there is no movement.

Gerry, the hydraulic tie bar is adjustable from the cockpit for the different trim settings.

Rik
02-06-2009, 09:30 PM
The steering cylinders are on a different plane then the pivot point
of the prop shafts.

Wedge plates only change the angle of attack of the prop in relation to
the water. More "trim" or less depending on the wedge being at the base
or the top.

Coronas and Wings on me and will discuss

Wedge plate are only there for the alignment of the engine. The early drop box drives used a separate wedge plate to accomplish two things.

1. Compensate for the compound angle that occurs when you tilt the drives

2. Allow the engine to be mounted in a more level plane rather than the angle of the transom (this is the same on the #6 Merc)

KnotRight
02-07-2009, 07:11 PM
Here are some other installs.

Some are Turbine Marine creations aswell as MTT Technologys.

KnotRight
02-07-2009, 07:14 PM
Some of the notable differences is fresh air intakes and water jacketed
exhaust.

tango
02-07-2009, 10:56 PM
The steering cylinders are on a different plane then the pivot point
of the prop shafts.

Wedge plates only change the angle of attack of the prop in relation to
the water. More "trim" or less depending on the wedge being at the base
or the top.

Coronas and Wings on me and will discuss

yes, we will discuss, but a few Coronas :ack2: will not tip the scales on the geometric analysis that will be required on let's say my super model against yours ! and again don't try to change the equation or direction of attack ! :) Bring it back to the total revolution prospective and pivot point and u-will sea the arc is inverted from the on-lookers view from the rear of the transom. Can any 1 sketch a cone shape 4-me with no movement of trim angle thru. the complete drives possible revolution/circumference !:sifone: and include/keep in mind the center to center/axis reference point of the cone's center line being the upper trim ram and fulcrum point of the drive. Ken what's up ? G Vac.soon, u-need it ? :biggrinjester::seeya:

tango
02-07-2009, 10:59 PM
K.R. is the middle pic., of the AMF 51' Outerlimits V-bottom, in post 97, before the exhaust change ?

tango
02-07-2009, 11:07 PM
:huh:
Wedge plate are only there for the alignment of the engine. The early drop box drives used a separate wedge plate to accomplish two things.

1. Compensate for the compound angle that occurs when you tilt the drives

2. Allow the engine to be mounted in a more level plane rather than the angle of the transom (this is the same on the #6 Merc)

OK great, so are you say'in it would be nice to have a flat transom area inside and out for the machinery and an angled transom for wave control and flyin re-entery angle, might it simplify the rigging ? :blush5: this could be done with 2-day's plastic's technology and re-enforcement techniques !

BradH
02-08-2009, 03:34 AM
If the steering ram pivot on the hull were at the same height as the centerline of the socket, it would prevent change in trim when turning. This is not feasible as there is no more transom space that low outboard of each drive. Moving the the steering attachment point on the drive to a point on the trim ram in line horizontally with the current hull pivot would also eliminate the problem.

I wonder how it runs without the rudders. Is it a single piece or bolted on?

KnotRight
02-08-2009, 10:46 AM
K.R. is the middle pic., of the AMF 51' Outerlimits V-bottom, in post 97, before the exhaust change ?


YES the one that swopped ends.

KnotRight
02-08-2009, 10:54 AM
yes, we will discuss, but a few Coronas :ack2: will not tip the scales on the geometric analysis that will be required on let's say my super model against yours ! and again don't try to change the equation or direction of attack ! :) Bring it back to the total revolution prospective and pivot point and u-will sea the arc is inverted from the on-lookers view from the rear of the transom. Can any 1 sketch a cone shape 4-me with no movement of trim angle thru. the complete drives possible revolution/circumference !:sifone: and include/keep in mind the center to center/axis reference point of the cone's center line being the upper trim ram and fulcrum point of the drive. Ken what's up ? G Vac.soon, u-need it ? :biggrinjester::seeya:


My head is rapping from last nights adventure. I cant help wondering
if it is me. I cannot understand a word of this:)

tango
02-08-2009, 04:12 PM
do you understand the word "vacation" have a blast in Cancun and take some pic's or better yet video, cya ol'adventuress 1 :moon::boobflash:

tango
02-08-2009, 04:19 PM
YES the one that swopped ends.

And almost rolled @ the Cape Cod race several years back, ingested some sea water too :ack2: -- ?-kero only from now on ?

phragle
02-08-2009, 07:13 PM
too much power for the boat or too much enthusiasim from the driver??

tango
02-08-2009, 10:51 PM
low stern weight, turbines are lighter, improper drive trim height angle in relationship to a ventilated hull in a turn causes :svengo: and yes big seas and driver learning curve contributed as well, Luv AMF, but $ is not everthing "GEICO" is a top dog now that the bugs are out :driving:

Rik
02-09-2009, 03:39 AM
:huh:

OK great, so are you say'in it would be nice to have a flat transom area inside and out for the machinery and an angled transom for wave control and flyin re-entery angle, might it simplify the rigging ? :blush5: this could be done with 2-day's plastic's technology and re-enforcement techniques !

??

Look at the transom angle. They range from (very old school) 12 degrees to 16 degrees on the newer models.

If there were no wedge (Arneson and Mercury) the drives would be mounted parallel to the transom and the engine would have to be perpendicular to the transom angle. Mounting an engine upward 12-26 degrees ranges from 7.5" up to 10" up on a 36" length engine. This can interfere with the engine hatch clearance.

So a wedge is used to lower the engine height, make clearance and make it so that the oil pickup in the engine pan does not have difficulty doing its job.

Transom angles are a strange theory. No one has ever explained them but from what I can tell, more angle makes a boat easier to get on plane. This is important for boats with a very high X dimension. Hustler and OL use a 16 degree transom.

Rik
02-09-2009, 03:50 AM
If the steering ram pivot on the hull were at the same height as the centerline of the socket, it would prevent change in trim when turning. This is not feasible as there is no more transom space that low outboard of each drive. Moving the the steering attachment point on the drive to a point on the trim ram in line horizontally with the current hull pivot would also eliminate the problem.

I wonder how it runs without the rudders. Is it a single piece or bolted on?

Not exactly. The pivot point from the trim makes an arc but not in a bad way. The arc actually parallels the water with the list of the boat making the submergence more symmetrical.

The steering cylinder (original design) made a fixed radius when trimmed. The cylinder does not extend/contract when the trim is actuated thus the arc.

No rudders? As long as there is throttle there is vectored thrust. With the rudder setup, the drive just goes up/down no arc.

Rudders are cast on to the thrust tube on the smaller units. Twin Fins bolt on, and the larger drives they all bolt on the bottom.

tango
02-12-2009, 01:49 AM
Rik, G is goin on a long, yet short term Vac. with that in mind U-I will have to battle the cyber space allotted to us, U-ON ? get out your compass, my heading is due West and thank - U

tango
02-12-2009, 01:58 AM
??

Look at the transom angle. They range from (very old school) 12 degrees to 16 degrees on the newer models.

If there were no wedge (Arneson and Mercury) the drives would be mounted parallel to the transom and the engine would have to be perpendicular to the transom angle. Mounting an engine upward 12-26 degrees ranges from 7.5" up to 10" up on a 36" length engine. This can interfere with the engine hatch clearance.

So a wedge is used to lower the engine height, make clearance and make it so that the oil pickup in the engine pan does not have difficulty doing its job.

Transom angles are a strange theory. No one has ever explained them but from what I can tell, more angle makes a boat easier to get on plane. This is important for boats with a very high X dimension. Hustler and OL use a 16 degree transom.

and in re-trospect what is the angle on let's say a Sutphen or not to say an under achieved formula v-hull, talkin transom angle not "dead rise"

tango
02-12-2009, 02:59 AM
??

Look at the transom angle. They range from (very old school) 12 degrees to 16 degrees on the newer models.

If there were no wedge (Arneson and Mercury) the drives would be mounted parallel to the transom and the engine would have to be perpendicular to the transom angle. Mounting an engine upward 12-26 degrees ranges from 7.5" up to 10" up on a 36" length engine. This can interfere with the engine hatch clearance.

So a wedge is used to lower the engine height, make clearance and make it so that the oil pickup in the engine pan does not have difficulty doing its job.

Transom angles are a strange theory. No one has ever explained them but from what I can tell, more angle makes a boat easier to get on plane. This is important for boats with a very high X dimension. Hustler and OL use a 16 degree transom.

come on Rik cut the BS read yoy post again, all engines in=general run in "parrallel" or in line with the out-bound gear not perpendicular. HEY, lets' get back to the steering arc. Can u=make a schematic of it in 3-D ? and yes I have observed some 90* gear boxes in some o'l alluminum cats.

KnotRight
02-12-2009, 08:29 PM
OK here is the Turbine oil used.....Each engine takes approx 10 quarts.


It is a dry sump system.

The second picture is how they build them. They stack them.

The third picture is the planetery reduction assembly which takes the n2 down
from approx 24000 to 6600 rpm.

tango
02-13-2009, 01:28 AM
6600 rpm out-put shaft to trans @1:1 into under-driven merc. # 6's with a drive ratio 1.35:1 would yeild a prop shaft rpm of Approx. 4950, and with a set of 5 blade 39 pitch wheels with lets say a conservative 9% slip. what speed guys should the GPS read ? remember these engines are approx. 1500 hp. ea. any estamates ? :sifone::sifone::sifone: !

Sunsation96
02-13-2009, 09:12 AM
Yeah what tango said:iagree: :huh: Tango is far above me with the technical information,this is a very impressive project:drool5: as for speed I will say FAST very FAST. :sifone:

KnotRight
02-13-2009, 12:41 PM
6600 rpm out-put shaft to trans @1:1 into under-driven merc. # 6's with a drive ratio 1.35:1 would yeild a prop shaft rpm of Approx. 4950, and with a set of 5 blade 39 pitch wheels with lets say a conservative 8% slip. what speed guys should the GPS read ? remember these engines are approx. 1500 hp. ea. any estamates ? :sifone::sifone::sifone: !


167 am I Close?


I,m thinking dropping to 1.24 and running the 37.5,s Herrings. Maybe 174.
A good question would be . Will dropping the ratio take some of the stress
off the drives?

Another question will there be enough torque to pull the 6600?
This would be approx 105% N2.

On T53 there are two speed controls one for N1 and one for N2.
The throttle is connected to N1. N2 is wired to the stop.

In a Helicopter The N2 is referd to as the collective.
This Collective does two things it changes the pitch of the Rotor
and it is mechanicaly connected to the N2 Speed control.

Ex. The pilot is picking up a load of logs and the n2 speed drops
he tweaks the collective to give it more power.


Now that I have confused you all Ill go back to sleep.

tango
02-13-2009, 12:52 PM
1:24 will add load to the drive but increase prop/wheel speed rpm, that is why you are taking some pitch out, do ya have a set a wheels bigger than 39 available say 40 or so + ? in general it is better to spin a lower pich wheel faster as you suggest, but testing and trial and testing and trial will be the prudent way to achieve your max speeds, but then again is that the ultimate goal "top end" only ? :hat: - :toetap05:

tango
02-13-2009, 02:40 PM
Brad, ref. your post #102

I wonder how it runs without the rudders. Is it a single piece or bolted on?[/QUOTE]

Brad, ck, post #77 the rudders are bolted on and with out them the boat would only steer by prop thrust "not good" note: there is no center rudder under the prop shaft housing in front of the wheel. also see post #110 from Rik.

Rik
02-16-2009, 01:37 AM
come on Rik cut the BS read yoy post again, all engines in=general run in "parrallel" or in line with the out-bound gear not perpendicular. HEY, lets' get back to the steering arc. Can u=make a schematic of it in 3-D ? and yes I have observed some 90* gear boxes in some o'l alluminum cats.

Please read your post again and refer to a dictonary on what words mean. Transom is not the gear, nor crankshaft. Transom is where the drives mount to upon a boat (in reference to these drive units). A perpendicular line is a right angle to a surface which is what the engine would be if it were not for a WEDGE.:dupe:

Please look up a pic of a Mercury and an Arneson and locate and identify the Wedge.

No engines are installed parrallel to the transom. No engines are installed perpendicular to the transom (other than that Nissian engined drive package from South Africa)

Sorry, but I cannot draw in 3d:(

As Mr. Lennon says "imagine" if there were no steering cylinder. What would happen when the drive was trimmed up/down on a traditional Arneson install. Now add a fixed tube/bar to one side mounted to the transom. What happens to the drive when trimmed now?

Now read what I have written about what I have designed.

tango
02-16-2009, 09:53 PM
Can't wait too as 1 might say; deprecate, what you have tried to communicate to us, :)

1. GEAR IS = TRANSMISSIONS - DRIVEs AND related RATIO'S ETC.

2. CRANKSHAFT IS INTERNAL IN AN INTERNAL COMBUSTION ENGINE

3. TRANSOM IS THE "STERN" OR REAR MOUNTING POINT 4-GEAR AND ENGINES AND DRIVES

4. ? HAVE YOU EVER SEEN A 90* gear box ?

5. thank you for the conversation !

6. U + I -- R , talkin the same geometry, between us, no doubt, let's think about gear ratio's, hull efficiency and their related machinery and thus ; propulsion units ! :)

tango
02-16-2009, 10:42 PM
PS: why use a surface drive " 101 " - :sifone: -- VS. a conventional stern drive can we/you/or, discuss the pro's + con's ? I luv'em! - - :seeya:

tango
02-20-2009, 12:15 AM
Rik, do-u- not want 2 "tango" come now it's all in fun and 2 create a "think-ing thing" dude ! u in or out ? U do a fab. job ! Like I said can U promote/discuss the Pros & Cons of a surface drive vs: a stern drive ? don't B bashfull. :grouphug: OR just say GFYS :rofl:

Rik
02-20-2009, 01:41 PM
Rik, do-u- not want 2 "tango" come now it's all in fun and 2 create a "thing-ing thing" dude ! u in or out ? U do a fab. job ! Like I said can U promote/discuss the Pros & Cons of a surface drive vs: a stern drive ? don't B bashfull. :grouphug: OR just say GFYS :rofl:

I am not certain as to what you are wanting here. I don't need a pulpit and have nothing to prove.

Being that you know me, who are you?:seeya:

tango
02-23-2009, 01:03 AM
I am frozen water/& mean no harm/no pulpit pushing/just thought you were sort of a doctor of the surface drive realm/are u-knot ? Best thing out there ! IMHO - :iagree: - :chillpill:

KnotRight
02-26-2009, 02:43 PM
Ok boys lets get it back on track.

Temperture shot to a schorching 45degrees Yipee!!!!
One in one to go.:03:

KnotRight
02-26-2009, 02:45 PM
I,m shooting for the other before the big storms come rolling in.

tango
02-28-2009, 01:59 AM
Thanks, for the up beat, looks like that Vac. did something super for the attitude adjustment LOL ! don't tell me, yep your right I do need 1 that is Vac. & adj. Last 1 was up to Alaska, before that the last full wk. off was in "97" Lookin good my fine lad. anything cook' in on RT.1 ? ? ? and gutta luv. the backhoe style chain fall NICE. :gnorsi: - clean bilge.

MarylandMark
02-28-2009, 10:32 AM
Pic with the cars really put in to reality how big those pipes really are for someone that doesn't see them all the time

old377guy
02-28-2009, 05:06 PM
ok, is it just me or what exactly is tango saying? I'm not quite able to follow all of the abbreviations and arcane lingo. Help.

tango
02-28-2009, 11:55 PM
I write upside down and back-words LOL, just gooffin with a few/ask a question will try 2-help :) God knows I need it :angelsad2::Angel_anim:

tango
03-01-2009, 12:08 AM
Pic with the cars really put in to reality how big those pipes really are for someone that doesn't see them all the time

MM dude they are huge the lower section of the exhaust, just before the turbine engine's exhaust exit point has a drain provision. That way water or rain water can not enter the last combustion chamber of the turbine engine thus flooding or puddling in the engine it-self. kool stuff or HOT @ times ! Notice the thermal blanket wrap around the pipes ? if it gets moist it will steam off for a while during start up. ps hows the mortgage market doin ?

tango
03-01-2009, 12:20 AM
take a close look @ the 2nd exhaust system in photo #1 post #126 "the 2nd 1 back to the left" can you see the little catch tray ? that catches any excess water and drains into the bilge. on the front exhaust set up it is located @ approx 8 o'clock, but in the boat it faces down in the 6 - o'clock position once rigged and installed.

Rik
03-01-2009, 01:02 AM
ok, is it just me or what exactly is tango saying? I'm not quite able to follow all of the abbreviations and arcane lingo. Help.

So it's not me that has had a hard time deciphering the garble.

Then all of a sudden he quits trying to be cute and types like he knows how. WTF is his problem?

tango
03-01-2009, 01:52 AM
Hey Rik, just got off the PH with Casale Eng. great bunch, the garble is there to B deciphered, thanks, and will try to stay on track.

tango
03-01-2009, 02:08 AM
KR, you paint the bilge soft grey ? tell me what are the little tanks with the rubber tube and breathers for ? I see one mounted to the right, below the starboard engine and one to the left along the stringer on the port side.

KnotRight
03-01-2009, 01:50 PM
KR, you paint the bilge soft grey ? tell me what are the little tanks with the rubber tube and breathers for ? I see one mounted to the right, below the starboard engine and one to the left along the stringer on the port side.

On Shut down the T53,s have a self purge of the nozzles
combined with a combuster drain.
Prevents clogging nozzles over exstended layups.

It is a -4 drain.

I picked up some Valvecover Puke tanks on EBAY
Slightly modified them to fit.

It was challanging to get them slightly lower then the combuster housing and still be able to get at them for periodic
drainage.

old377guy
03-01-2009, 05:49 PM
great thread, now I seem to be able to get the drift tango, rik and knot. very interesting machinery and rigging. - jeff

KnotRight
03-01-2009, 06:14 PM
Pic with the cars really put in to reality how big those pipes really are for someone that doesn't see them all the time

18 inches in diamiter. I dropped a bungee cord down the pipe
I can actually fit in it:ack2:

tango
03-01-2009, 06:29 PM
KR, do you have 2-in or are those older photos ? Looks like your area may be hit with 10+ inches of the white cold fluffy powdery stuff between 2-night and into early monday AM. Get her tight to the weather, sure you do ! By the way, in general how often do you need to drain the purge tanks from the combuster chambers ?

KnotRight
03-01-2009, 06:29 PM
great thread, now I seem to be able to get the drift tango, rik and knot. very interesting machinery and rigging. - jeff

What makes it neat is there are no experts on this.
Ya cant just pick up the phone and call someone.
Most of the rigging shown here could be done several different ways.
I guess what im trying to say is it really is pretty easy to do.
When ya drop it in the water and it does not sink and goes like hell
ya half way there;)

tango
03-01-2009, 06:51 PM
KR, no kiddin a side NO sinkin, ck.post # 140 a ?

KnotRight
03-02-2009, 10:05 AM
KR, do you have 2-in or are those older photos ? Looks like your area may be hit with 10+ inches of the white cold fluffy powdery stuff between 2-night and into early monday AM. Get her tight to the weather, sure you do ! By the way, in general how often do you need to drain the purge tanks from the combuster chambers ?


Drainage of the tanks is different. I would say 5 to 8 shutdowns.
One bad start just about fills it.


How am I going to work on the tub with this?

Rik
03-02-2009, 01:44 PM
You really are a "Fair Weather Sailor" aren't you!

phragle
03-02-2009, 02:40 PM
couldnt you rig the catch can to a small electric full pump, set to run momentarily after shutoff?

Rik
03-02-2009, 03:04 PM
couldnt you rig the catch can to a small electric full pump, set to run momentarily after shutoff?

There are a lot of ways to do this. A sensor could evacuate it or, Gerry could rig a siphon in the can to evacuate it through the exhaust.

KnotRight
03-02-2009, 09:42 PM
You really are a "Fair Weather Sailor" aren't you!

Pull my Finger:26:

KnotRight
03-02-2009, 09:43 PM
couldnt you rig the catch can to a small electric full pump, set to run momentarily after shutoff?

McMaster-Carr has some chemical pumps listed that would work.

Not a bad idea.

KnotRight
03-02-2009, 09:47 PM
There are a lot of ways to do this. A sensor could evacuate it or, Gerry could rig a siphon in the can to evacuate it through the exhaust.

Whats your thoughts on Venting the oil tank breathers into the exhaust?

Like Drag cars PVC system.

I think MTT does this.


The #3 seal was hanging allowing blow by. Jim replaced it for this season.
It left quite a bit of Oil residue in the engine bay.

Rik
03-02-2009, 11:16 PM
Whats your thoughts on Venting the oil tank breathers into the exhaust?

Like Drag cars PVC system.

I think MTT does this.


The #3 seal was hanging allowing blow by. Jim replaced it for this season.
It left quite a bit of Oil residue in the engine bay.

That stuff is a ***** to clean and as you have learned by now, it stains everything it touches!

You can vent the breathers, just make certain you have one that will allow air in rather than letting the exhaust suck the tank dry:ack2: You've obviously seen the old VW diesels and the problems they had when doing this.

tango
03-06-2009, 12:41 AM
Drainage of the tanks is different. I would say 5 to 8 shutdowns.
One bad start just about fills it.


How am I going to work on the tub with this?

So ya have to drain em @ least once or twice a wk-end of hard runnin. do ya think it's time for a re-evaluation of their size or as others have suggested a pump out solution maybe back to an isolated tank and then re-filter back to the fuel tanks. Rik, how U doin :sifone: - ps: Rik, where on the t-53 is the compressed air port is there more than 1 and what is the approx. output air temp. does it need to be remotely cooled ? :biggrinjester: -- KR fire em-up that il-melt the fluff. :) ck. this, maybe overkill, but nice neat stuff; www.X-Change-R.com ck.out the model #922

tango
03-22-2009, 12:59 AM
Ok, it is gettin near test and start up time, KR's tanks are full. a few fuel line modifications and the addition of a set of 2-micron filter system heads and them bad boys will be set to FIRE ! ck.this vid. it will get ya in the mood. http://www.vimeo.com/2214228 watch them duke it out.

catmando
03-23-2009, 12:13 AM
Ok, it is gettin near test and start up time, KR's tanks are full. a few fuel line modifications and the addition of a set of 2-micron filter system heads and them bad boys will be set to FIRE ! ck.this vid. it will get ya in the mood. http://www.vimeo.com/2214228 watch them duke it out.Strip Poker and I replied on that vid, awesome run!

Knot-Right if I remember correctly, Fusco put that outboard jet motor on so he could 1) dock and undock w/o using the turbines which use as much fuel at idle as at WOT and 2) lessen noise and heat around the docks. I believe it's a 300hp Merc, not sure...

tango
03-23-2009, 01:21 AM
Cat, whats up ? your right turbines use alot of fuel @ idle which is about 11k+ rpm, but @ full throttle they use about the same as a couple of over grown BB with blowers @ wide open throttle. then the 2 would be approximately equal and run @ the same GPH consumption rate.

tango
04-11-2009, 11:24 PM
hey G, what is the gear reduction of the turbine engine is it between 4:1 or 5:1 do you have the spec. ?

KnotRight
04-17-2009, 04:57 PM
N2 (Power Turbine) RPM at 100% is 21,074.

The output After the planetary reduction is 6,600rpm

Divide 21074 from 6600 you get 3.19

Here is picture of my planets.

tango
04-18-2009, 10:14 PM
Ok N1 26,500rpm max. (gas Producer) N2 governed to 21,074rpm + - so gear ratio is 3.2:1 gutcha thanks ! ps: planetary gear oil and engine oil in the same sump or separate systems? if the same could they be isolated from each other or is it a single pump design for all rotational mechanisms

KnotRight
04-19-2009, 11:01 AM
Yes same oil feed.

In this picture the Rdeuction gears are located right at the very end of
the Turbine. The 22 5/16 studs actualy hold it in. These same studs
is where the Crashbox Bell housing bolts too.

MarylandMark
04-19-2009, 01:30 PM
now THAT frickin rocks!!