Save the Old Race Boats

[Top Banana]

The thread on Bounty Hunter at Key West was going off subject and we didn't want to take away from it......so we started a new thread here re the effort of many to save the old race boats.....I will copy and paste some of the discussion up to now.

[Top Banana]

Originally Posted by MarylandMark
Ok- and not to clutter so if another thread is warranted please do so.

What is "The Cigarette" worth now, how many hours did a project like that take and how much money invested?

How about "Bounty Hunter"?

I know it is priceless to see them run again (and to get the guys that made it happen then and now sharing stories with us!!!!! TY!!!), they did an over-the-top job which is what these boats deserved and some thing is what someone is willing to pay for it and all that other stuff. Talking about what the average person would pay.

Take the 24 Firefox Cig that Cigracing1 had Lip-ship re-do. $100K-$125K in it (?), priceless to him in honor of his brother and "real" worth is $70-90K (?). That's not too bad really when talking about boats. I paid around that for mine and worth about that if I was lucky and it's nothing anyone would remember or even close to Cigracing1's 24!




Mark....these are questions, especially in this economy, that are very hard to answer.

"The Cigarette" that I raced in June was the very first race boat that Don Aronow ever built for himself, from one of his own boat manufacturing companies. The value of this boat is really what a serious collector would pay for it.

I was contacted by a serious collector to act as a mediator with the owner. The collector told me that he would be willing to buy the boat and the present owner could continue to use it whenever he wanted to. He showed me where the boat would be stored....all temperature controlled and the facility had full time security. He didn't name a figure, but I know that some other historic objects in his motor racing collection, he paid over $1 million for.

I am not saying that is what would be paid for the boat, I am just noting that there are some serious collectors out there, who recognize these boats with great histories, are just sitting around waiting to be discovered, like the Ferrari's of the 70's and 80's.

The present owner declined at this time. He is just enjoying the boat and what it represents to all the families involved. There have only been three owners....Aronow, Peroni and the DiNisco families.

That was Don's first ever race boat for himself......My son and I have been restoring...... the last race boat that Don ever built for himself.

He never raced it, but built it with the intention of coming back out of retirement. He registered under his lucky number 4, with the APBA. The boat was not quite finished, so he jumped in Magoon's 40 foot Cigarette for the Miami to Bimini race. On the way to Bimini, the two "experts" spun the boat out twice. Don laughed about it and said it was a sign he should stay retired.

Not that a boat built for Don would be special at all, but it was sold to a college kid from Boca, who named it Spirit and promptly went out and won a bunch of races and set new speed records. It was then sold to Rocky Aoki who renamed it BENIHANA and did the same thing the following year. The boat won the Bahamas 500 twice, the Bushmills twice, the last Miami - Nassau, the Hurricane Classic, San Francisco, Stroh's, and set 5 new world speed records in those two years. They both kept the number Don had registered the boat with 4.

We found the boat painted all black. We have stripped the paint and prepared it for a new covering of Awlgrip in the original colors. Under the sterndrives, we found the orginal colors and Composite 1, matched the paint for us. The engines are at Innovation Marine in Sarasotoa right now. I asked them to keep the original look of the injector stacks, but build me some reliable detuned engines that can run on regular pump gas. I already had the biggest baddest engines in the world at one time and I paid for every rebuild every few hours....that part of the experience I don't need to repeat.

This boat has won all the races it needs to ....and so have I.

Both of us can just enjoy the experience of being out there again.

[Top Banana]

The progress has been slow, but steady and we are closing in on the finish line. Here are some more shots of this work of love that is going on.

[Top Banana]

And here are some shots of it when it was in it's glory days.

Also a shot of some engines that are similar in looks to mine.

[Top Banana]

MARYLAND MARK POSTED......Thank you very, very, very, very much! Priceless!!!

I am not looking at getting in to racing by any means or having the biggest, baddest motors on the plant by any means either. My pockets aren't deep enough by any means (yet..hopefully..).

I am thinking like the Mich Light Scarab. Head turner/story teller where ever it would be!

38 foot Larry Smith Scarab Ex-Raceboat, staggered fresh Merc. 575's, #3 speedmasters, Patterson marine headers, 3 man cockpit, no cabin, Kaama external steering. Hull ID #TSC101380379. Betty Cook / John Connor 2nd Scarab ran first as KAAMA, then Michelob Light. 2 National titles in KW under it's belt. Ron Hirshberg bought it from Betty and raced it for a number of years, raced as KAAMA, Soxcess, and Revenge.

Was this the same one Ratman had it listed in 07 for $19K?? 19k will take the mich boat,trannies,ssm#3a's, monster tabs, all the gauges,trim pumps,exhaust,new raw water pick up, new fuel lines and all hardware, new 3 axle alum torsion axle trailer with disc brakes thats new been in the water.

$20K for the boat on new trailer, say $80K in resto (? total guess) and will as much in to it as I have in my boat that has 0 stories and is just another boat at the docks- fish boat at that.. LOL!





Yes Mark, that was the Michelob Light boat that ratman had for sale. It was purchased by the same guy that bought Daddy Cool, the 35 Cigarette. He is going to keep the Mich Boat and has Daddy Cool up for sale now...I don't know the asking price.

As far as cost, you can pick a lot of this stuff up in various places .....if you buy a boat that is a hull and deck.

Unless the boat has significant history, it wouldn't be as important to make sure it had period correct parts, especially the engines. Those engines were very delicate and it took a lot of money to rebuild them after just a few short hours of racing.

[Westcoast]

I remember seeing that boat on E-bay several years ago...

[smokeybandit]

Here's Revenge and Flap Jack from 1985. Obviously Revenge is the old KAAMA. Wasn't Flap Jack also a Scarab? Is that boat still alive somewhere?

9218

9219

[Top Banana]

Here's Revenge and Flap Jack from 1985. Obviously Revenge is the old KAAMA. Wasn't Flap Jack also a Scarab? Is that boat still alive somewhere?

9218

9219


The Scarabs were great boats, but they had a weakness in the bow area.

Tom Gentry and Richie Powers had the bow break off their Scarab, American Eagle, in 1980 at the Benihana race in NJ and escaped what could have been a very bad accident.

Betty never had a problem when she owned the boat as far as I know.

[Chris]

Not every boater can own multiple boats. Most guys are married anr/or have girlfriends and while a balls-out raceboat with a 3-pack bolster might be an interesting novelty for an afternoon, a long-term relationship with a boat with no cabin, sunpad or head can be taxing. If mom & the kids aren't happy, it's tough for you to be happy. many folks would rather have a nextra $100K worth of boat in their main boat than have two similar boats. So you've narrowed the field to a guy with deep pockets and some patience when you're talking about owning an old open-class raceboat.

On the other hand, I believe there will be big interest in the coming years in boats in the upper 20 and lower 30 foot range, especially ex-raceboats and replicas. While I might not want to have $150K tied up in a pristine refurb Scarab raceboat, owning an old Magnum 27 in vintage-race dress might be kinda' cool. Sort of like owning an older Porsche.

[smokeybandit]

not every boater can own multiple boats. Most guys are married anr/or have girlfriends and while a balls-out raceboat with a 3-pack bolster might be an interesting novelty for an afternoon, a long-term relationship with a boat with no cabin, sunpad or head can be taxing. If mom & the kids aren't happy, it's tough for you to be happy. Many folks would rather have a nextra $100k worth of boat in their main boat than have two similar boats. So you've narrowed the field to a guy with deep pockets and some patience when you're talking about owning an old open-class raceboat.

On the other hand, i believe there will be big interest in the coming years in boats in the upper 20 and lower 30 foot range, especially ex-raceboats and replicas. While i might not want to have $150k tied up in a pristine refurb scarab raceboat, owning an old magnum 27 in vintage-race dress might be kinda' cool. Sort of like owning an older porsche.


9309

Chris,

It doesn't have to be a race boat. There were some very memorable performance boats like the photo attached. How about all of the APBA pace boats like Manhattan Express. Where is that boat now?

[ar15meister]

I agree Chris. I see it like a Shelby Cobra. Not made for every time you need to go out but when the ideal conditions are there you will have more fun in a Shelby Cobra than you would in say a 911 Turbo.

I am not married and no kids though so I dont have anyone to answer to.

TOP Banana, your 39 is one awesome looking machine, just checked out the website.

[jeff1000man]

Mine is for sale.

[Offshore Ginger]

Very good read and great pics , just curious what was the boat that Don Jhonson use to campaign with ?

[smokeybandit]

I would love to find a 21' Superboat or Challenger race setup like the one in the picture below. There were quite a few of us in the NE that got our start in these boats. Anybody know of one for sale? I would love to have one as a winter project.

9315

[glassdave]

9309

Chris,

It doesn't have to be a race boat. There were some very memorable performance boats like the photo attached. How about all of the APBA pace boats like Manhattan Express. Where is that boat now?

Good point, a friend of mine (BradB on here) recently found one of the old Race Rock pace boats of Bobby Moores. It is in fantastic shape and was at an auction at a local marina here, you wouldnt believe what it went for. Its in capable hands and is being preserved as the wave crusher it always was. It appears it has just sat somewhere outside for many years, after a weekend or two of cleaning and fluid changes it was back in the water. Its getting a new interior and the gel is in great shape. Very cool boat and great find!

[Chris]

9309

Chris,

It doesn't have to be a race boat. There were some very memorable performance boats like the photo attached. How about all of the APBA pace boats like Manhattan Express. Where is that boat now?

I agree. As the owner of a small fleet of classic boats, I'm a big proponent of restorations.

For what a new boat costs these days, a complete restoration is a great way to have boat built exactly the way you want it and spend pennies on the dollar.

A couple of boating trends strike me- first is this quest for an absolute speed number. Rarely are these boats run at these speeds and there are huge sacrifices being made to make them race-fast only to get blasted for a few moments to thise speeds. Second, unique is absolutely out the door these days. You can visit virtually any major on-water event these days and see dozens of $500K+ boats. And they all look the same. Major paint jobs and gobs of billet stuff. It's funny to see people walking past rows of these boats to look at a 20-year-old Apache.

[Dude! Sweet!]

I agree Chris. I see it like a Shelby Cobra. Not made for every time you need to go out but when the ideal conditions are there you will have more fun in a Shelby Cobra than you would in say a 911 Turbo.

I am not married and no kids though so I dont have anyone to answer to.

TOP Banana, your 39 is one awesome looking machine, just checked out the website.

Adam, you've already got your pedigreed old school race boat! :26:

[Dude! Sweet!]

Chris it's funny, your comments about the family capable boat vs. a full-on race boat are currently bearing out to be the inverse of my personal experince (although I do agree with you in general). My wife and kids aren't into the boat, so the fact that my Pantera has a back seat and cabin has become meaningless to me. I came very close to buying an old CUV race boat (Patrick's) and have regretted that I didn't since. Ah well, live and learn... maybe. Ha ha ha!

[Brownie]

I was asked to survey the Quam 43' Scarab after the nose fell off. It looked for the world like they had used the 38' stringer set. They didn't reach the bow, but ended at the forward bulkhead. I think all of those boats broke. Major HYDROFUBAB. (Hydrodynamic f**kup beyond all belief).

[smokeybandit]

I was asked to survey the Quam 43' Scarab after the nose fell off. It looked for the world like they had used the 38' stringer set. They didn't reach the bow, but ended at the forward bulkhead. I think all of those boats broke. Major HYDROFUBAB. (Hydrodynamic f**kup beyond all belief).

Now that's funny!

[MarylandMark]

Thanks for pruning the Bounty Hunter thread which can be found by clicking here (http://www.seriousoffshore.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1186)

[NNRT]

Earlier today I was watching our Gurnsey 88 - the UIM World Championships held over 3 days there in 1988. Many Aluminum Cats, V bottoms - all racing in really ROUGH WATER - - they did not call the race - I viewed it on DVD - what a difference from the VHS format I sold - it looked closer to High Deff - for those of you that want to watch really rough water racing - with famous boats, V Bottom and Cats - I strong suggest you contact either Charlie McCarthy or Rich Luhrs - to get this DVD - a MUST for a cold winter's day - Merry Christmas to all (that know me) -

Phil

[smokeybandit]

Earlier today I was watching our Gurnsey 88 - the UIM World Championships held over 3 days there in 1988. Many Aluminum Cats, V bottoms - all racing in really ROUGH WATER - - they did not call the race - I viewed it on DVD - what a difference from the VHS format I sold - it looked closer to High Deff - for those of you that want to watch really rough water racing - with famous boats, V Bottom and Cats - I strong suggest you contact either Charlie McCarthy or Rich Luhrs - to get this DVD - a MUST for a cold winter's day - Merry Christmas to all (that know me) -

Phil


It seems like the thing to do in the cold weather. The other night I was watching the Northport, MI races from 84 and 85, as well as the Pt. Pleasant 85 race. The rough water was a blast. Phil, I'm not blowing smoke up your skirt when I say that your coverage was so far superior to anything shot today. You really get the feel of the speed and the conditions. For those out there that have never seen an NNRT filmed race (and I can't imagine there are many) pony up and get some. I promise you will not be disappointed.

[NNRT]

It seems like the thing to do in the cold weather. The other night I was watching the Northport, MI races from 84 and 85, as well as the Pt. Pleasant 85 race. The rough water was a blast. Phil, I'm not blowing smoke up your skirt when I say that your coverage was so far superior to anything shot today. You really get the feel of the speed and the conditions. For those out there that have never seen an NNRT filmed race (and I can't imagine there are many) pony up and get some. I promise you will not be disappointed.

Hello Rob -

Thanks for your Kind words - I viewed on line the other day a video clip - so many special effects -sped up, slow motion - wonderful music - and little of what I would call OFFSHORE RACING - in OPEN Ocean conditions - Gurensey 88 showed true ROUGH WATER conditions - the way many people in Europe see the Ocean all the time. I think many of the racers of today would stay on the dock, if they had to race in the conditions people raced in the early days of Offshore. People - see for yourself - get the DVD from Charlie McCarthy at HOBRA or contact Darren or Rich Luhrs - ask for the Guernsey 88 - its 20 years old - but priceless - an oh for those that think I get something out of it - I DONT - However- those that buy it - WILL !

[Ryan8886]

I just want to say thank you to the oldtimers on here that share all this great history. I'm still very new to offshore boating, so i tend to keep my mouth shut and just read alot in this section. I fell in love with the big offshore's as a kid in the early/mid-80's when there used to be races on Lake Michigan from Saugatuck to Grand Haven. We always seemed to be in town on vacation that week and it was just awesome to hear them and wander the docks. Would be curious if anyone can tell me about those races and whatever happened to them.

[BUTCH RYAN]

Have a great holiday phil

[NNRT]

Have a great holiday phil

Hello Butch - Merry Christmas to you too - I often see the photo of your boat under the Brooklyn Bridge with the World Trade center behind in Manhattan. Many wonderful memories of those days- seems like yesterday too -

Thank you for your support back then -

Phil

[AGITATOR]

i kept the old race boat and kicked the old lady to the curb

[glassdave]

It seems like the thing to do in the cold weather. The other night I was watching the Northport, MI races from 84 and 85, as well as the Pt. Pleasant 85 race. The rough water was a blast. Phil, I'm not blowing smoke up your skirt when I say that your coverage was so far superior to anything shot today. You really get the feel of the speed and the conditions. For those out there that have never seen an NNRT filmed race (and I can't imagine there are many) pony up and get some. I promise you will not be disappointed.



Northport 200 1985 . . . you guys are on page 47 :cool:


shirt no longer fits :D

[Ben]

Here's an ambitious restoration.

http://www.proprider.com/forum/showthread.php?t=273

[inbetween]

ambitious may not be the right word for that one :biggrinjester:

Gonna be very cool when fininshed though

[BUTCH RYAN]

i just want to say thank you to the oldtimers on here that share all this great history. I'm still very new to offshore boating, so i tend to keep my mouth shut and just read alot in this section. I fell in love with the big offshore's as a kid in the early/mid-80's when there used to be races on lake michigan from saugatuck to grand haven. We always seemed to be in town on vacation that week and it was just awesome to hear them and wander the docks. Would be curious if anyone can tell me about those races and whatever happened to them.

the owner of coral gables committed suicide and that about finished the great races

[MikeyFIN]

I was asked to survey the Quam 43' Scarab after the nose fell off. It looked for the world like they had used the 38' stringer set. They didn't reach the bow, but ended at the forward bulkhead. I think all of those boats broke. Major HYDROFUBAB. (Hydrodynamic f**kup beyond all belief).

Or just making it as light (and fragile) as possible .... aka disposable racers... just like all them Americas cuppers and anything out of Colin Chapmans design (Lotus Racecars).

[Flying Dutchman]

Had not seen this one before-

http://www.boattrader.com/listing/1981-Cigarette-Racing-39-Competition-Race-Boat-%238-94162550

[glassdave]

Had not seen this one before-

http://www.boattrader.com/listing/1981-Cigarette-Racing-39-Competition-Race-Boat-%238-94162550

That thing is cool!. . . not sure if its 190K cool but still pretty damn cool none the less :D.

DaVinci carbs, BW trans and Patterson headers . . . . thats some old school stuff right there

[Nykamp]

It used to be here in west michigan on a hydro lift in Whitehall, it a very cool race boat.

[Ryan Beckley]

This WAS Craig Barrie's race boat......but the price is about 100 high.....

[Top Banana]

HORBA has been in touch with a party over in England that has one of Don Aronow's original 28 foot Magnums.

Don had two identical boats, one sterndrive and the other outboard, that he used to win the 1967 World Championship. He had these boats towed all over Europe and sold them to parties over there when the season was over.

Someone is undertaking the restoration of one of these boats and you can see here what he is starting with.

He is looking for any photos of the deck area, cockpit area or anything if those original boats. HORBA sent him what we had of the boats, but in resto's like this, the more info he can get the better.

[Top Banana]

Here are some of the original boat.

[Mange]

Charlie,

Straight this out for me please. It was 3 "#4 boats" right?

1 outboard #4
1 twin inboard shaft's #4
1 single inboard sterndrive #4
?

My little (big) investigation tells me this is the twin inboard "#4" and how she looks today.

Thanks
Mange

[Mange]

twin inboard "#4" when Ian Toll (UK) raced it.