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View Full Version : looking to buy a classic 16



Jalpa24
03-13-2012, 09:22 PM
Iím look to buy a Donzi Classic 16, this will be my first boat but, I grew up with boats, I would like a 60s or 70s boat thatís I can restore. I want to know how much wood is in a classic? I know the transoms will have wood, but dose the floor and deck have and wood?

Offshore Ginger
03-13-2012, 09:47 PM
The Core in those boats at that age most likely are going to be Balsa , and stringers , transom , and all intermittent's , will be Ply , with the exception of the sole or liner that most likely will be............ Balsa also , and welcome to the site and are you a member of www.donzi.net or www.donzi.org

Ratickle
03-13-2012, 11:33 PM
Thanks Artie, And welcome from me as well....


I don't know of a Sweet 16 currently that needs a lot of work, but I'll start putting out the feelers.....


I do know of a 20 Cigarette. I believe hull number 2......

Jalpa24
03-14-2012, 10:18 PM
Ok thanks for the info and the links for the sites, Oh one more thing Is the deck is screw on or bonded together? I was thinking about rebuilding a used Mercruiser 350 with a Alpha out driver for the Donzi are there much differences in a alpha one gen 1 and 2s? and are parts easy to get for them? I dont wont somthing thats going to be hard to get parts for in 5 years.

Wow 20' Cigarette hull number 2, what a boat, I would love to have a boat like that, but I really want a 16" boat now, I want something that I can go out all day and have fun for under $100, My father has a 26' Donzi ZX and when ever he goes out for the day he uses 75 gallons.

Offshore Ginger
03-14-2012, 10:43 PM
Jalpa24 , just curious where is your location ?

Offshore Ginger
03-14-2012, 10:46 PM
Paul that is a great boat with a price to boot, but ............................$$$$$$$$$$ it actually is Hull no # 1 for 30 K if we are on the same page .

Jalpa24
03-15-2012, 07:36 AM
Jalpa24 , just curious where is your location ?

I live in virginia

Ratickle
03-15-2012, 08:37 AM
One of our moderators is really into the Donzi scene, he should know if there is one around.

Do you have a budget or timeframe or expected result set up to share? I'm sure Jim will see this and be able to help.

BUIZILLA
03-15-2012, 08:44 AM
good morning..., be sure to visit us at www.donzi.org and perhaps we can help you. I just finished 15 months of restoring a 16 outboard, and know every millimeter of that hull... there are 16's out there to restore, both I/O and clamp on's.... why are you hooked on just a 16 and not an 18, if I may ask?

Jim

Jalpa24
03-15-2012, 11:06 PM
good morning..., be sure to visit us at www.donzi.org and perhaps we can help you. I just finished 15 months of restoring a 16 outboard, and know every millimeter of that hull... there are 16's out there to restore, both I/O and clamp on's.... why are you hooked on just a 16 and not an 18, if I may ask?

Jim

A 18 classic would be great, but the prices are a lot higher, that’s why I was going for a 16 classic, I would like to find a boat by summer but I’m not in a big rush, I was hoping to get a good restoration project boat for $3000 or less and sink another 15k-17k, I want to keep it under 20K over the next two years.

C35
03-16-2012, 02:22 AM
the 16 is a cute little boat but pretty small. nice for a quick buzz around but cramped fro spending much time on. and a pretty bumpy ride.

Ratickle
03-16-2012, 07:38 AM
As I'm sure Jim will also say, there are several 16's, 18's, and 20's in decent shape for les than $20,000 out there right now.

As for fuel costs, I doubt there will be much difference between a 16 up to a 20 in overall expenses. With a later fuel injection system, I believe all would get between 3 and 4 mpg at cruise.

C35
03-16-2012, 08:22 AM
im always scared of someone elses redo boat. god only knows whats buried under that shinny new paint.

the fuel- a 26 footer burns waaaay more than a 20. got a pal with an old hornet- 350 on a volvo. burns about no gas and is a sweet smooth ride on choppy days.

Ratickle
03-16-2012, 10:52 PM
But I don't think the 22 vs the 20. Or the 20 vs the 18. Or the 18 vs the 16 is much difference at all in fuel comsumption.

By the way, Alpha replacements and rebuilds have been extremely reasonable.

Jalpa24
03-17-2012, 12:23 AM
Well I guess ill look for a 16 or a 18 Classic , Ill just see what i can find, Oh one more reasons that I dont want a bigger boat, Im going to be towing it with a 1500 2wd truck.

What is a good price for a 18' Classic project boat, every 18' Im seeing is like 10k? And thats more then I want to speend on a boat that needs lots of work or a restoration. and I want to restore the boat and then Ill know its done right.

Bobcat
03-17-2012, 09:28 AM
This one doesn't look to bad for 11K

http://www.thehulltruth.com/boats-sale-wanted/411240-donzi-sweet-16-11-000-obo.html

Jalpa24
03-18-2012, 12:04 PM
This one doesn't look to bad for 11K

http://www.thehulltruth.com/boats-sale-wanted/411240-donzi-sweet-16-11-000-obo.html

Wow that is a nice one, But im a little short on money for this mouth, I spent $7,500 of my boat funds on new wheels and tires for the lamborghini last mounth. I can speend up to $3'000 for a boat now, but I could have the 11k by summer, And I realy woud like to find a boat that I can restore my self

I wish this donzi wasnt on the west coast http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1966-DONZI-Sweet-16-/110842964096?pt=Power_Motorboats&hash=item19cec16880

Christopher

Ratickle
03-18-2012, 06:49 PM
Heck, bid on it. What have you got to lose????

Take a long weekend and fly out and put it in storage for a couple months until you have time to drive out and tow it back, or one of the members is coming this way with nothing to tow. Still be within your $3000 it looks like...

Jalpa24
03-18-2012, 08:23 PM
Heck, bid on it. What have you got to lose????

Take a long weekend and fly out and put it in storage for a couple months until you have time to drive out and tow it back, or one of the members is coming this way with nothing to tow. Still be within your $3000 it looks like...

Yeah I think I might do that

C35
03-19-2012, 10:16 PM
take a peek at this-

http://cleveland.craigslist.org/boa/2910379620.html

Ratickle
03-19-2012, 11:39 PM
Paul that is a great boat with a price to boot, but ............................$$$$$$$$$$ it actually is Hull no # 1 for 30 K if we are on the same page .

Hey Artie, this is the one I think is hull #2, not positive, but I've heard that.....

Jalpa24
03-20-2012, 07:55 AM
Ok I have to call and find out more on this boat. hmm ill have to come up with a traler to bring it back on. I'll let you know when I find out more

Offshore Ginger
03-20-2012, 06:25 PM
Hey Artie, this is the one I think is hull #2, not positive, but I've heard that.....

Paul , can you post the lead on that boat so all .......................can see ?

Buoy
03-20-2012, 06:36 PM
Wow that is a nice one, But im a little short on money for this mouth, I spent $7,500 of my boat funds on new wheels and tires for the lamborghini last mounth. I can speend up to $3'000 for a boat now, but I could have the 11k by summer, And I realy woud like to find a boat that I can restore my self

I wish this donzi wasnt on the west coast http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1966-DONZI-Sweet-16-/110842964096?pt=Power_Motorboats&hash=item19cec16880

Christopher

Go for it!!!

I'm in AZ, and if you can get a safe trailer under it, I could get it to my place and keep it here until you can pick it up.

Ratickle
03-20-2012, 07:07 PM
Paul , can you post the lead on that boat so all .......................can see ?

Like this you mean?


Cigarette 20 - $3750 (NE Ohio)
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Date: 2012-03-19, 12:29PM EDT
Reply to: xqj85-2910379620@sale.craigslist.org [Errors when replying to ads?]
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Very solid Cigarette 20 project boat. Stringers and transom are absolutely solid. Tank is in very good condition. Paint is decent but not great. Pics show some thin spots on the bottom. Very little crazing in corners. Has original side vents, buckets and pedestals not shown. Windshield and hardware all there. Boat only- no trailer. Contact CustomMarineEng(a)aol.com or 216-630-5329 for more details.

Jalpa24
03-21-2012, 05:47 AM
ok here are some pic of the Cigarette

73126
73127
73128
73129
73130
73131

Jalpa24
03-21-2012, 05:53 AM
73132
73133
73134
73135
73136
73137

Jalpa24
03-21-2012, 05:56 AM
73138
73139
73140
73141
73142

Jalpa24
03-21-2012, 06:58 AM
Go for it!!!

I'm in AZ, and if you can get a safe trailer under it, I could get it to my place and keep it here until you can pick it up.

Ok thanks Buoy. If I buy this Donzi ill have a tow truck run it to a shop to go over the trailer and put new tires and and lights on it. and ill get a spare tire too.

Bobcat
03-21-2012, 07:01 AM
Does that transom cutout seem large? or is it just an illusion because of the size of the boat.

C35
03-21-2012, 07:11 AM
volvo

better known as mercruiser prototype

Offshore Ginger
03-21-2012, 10:23 AM
Jalpa , that is a very good price for that Cig , which will bring a much better re-sale value then that Donzi ............................................ Thanks Paul , and to tell you the truth i just E-Mailed the gentlemen , about the boat and will give him a call tomorrow .

mattyboy
03-22-2012, 04:36 PM
Just some quick info on the 16 the construction methods did change of the years and the layup schedule got a little stronger as they progressed. some of the very early boats had bottom issues when the interceptors were pulled for bigger power in the late 60's to early 70's.
If you can find a 1967 -ish 16 skisporter they did not use any coring on the deck the only wood was the transom and stringers. the deck was all glass with PVC pipe as supports. Any 16 of that era that doesn't have a new tank is going to need it. Also in the early to mid 70's the bottom was re worked and the inner strakes were lengthened towards the transom to end around two feet the older boats closer to 4 feet away.the newer boats will sit higher in the water and won't look so azz heavy compared to the older boats. I have not had a chance to put the newer skisporter hull thru it paces.When the 16 came back after the production stoppage 80 to 90 the hull was back to the original design short inner strakes. Hope that helps

Matt Veth
Historian
Lake George Donzi Classic Club

ps if anyone is interested I can get you in touch with cig 19 hull number one, I helped restore , it is awesome and for sale

Jalpa24
03-22-2012, 08:27 PM
Oh wow thanks for all the Info on the Classic 16, it really helps a lot. Big hp how much are you talk about? is 250hp big hp? If so I want a Skisporter or I guess a later 70s boats

Buoy
03-22-2012, 09:15 PM
Personally, I like that Cig. Yes, it's gonna need a full transom re-do, but could be worth it. I wouldn't be afraid of it.
All depends on what you're looking for though.
Remember, you can't go wrong stepping up to a 24/7 - but that's a bit larger than you originally stated.

old377guy
03-22-2012, 10:40 PM
Does that transom cutout seem large? or is it just an illusion because of the size of the boat.

thinkin the same thing myself

Ratickle
03-22-2012, 10:44 PM
http://newyork.craigslist.org/fct/boa/2908758473.html


1974 Donzi "Sweet 16"...best offer - $6500 (Norwalk, CT)

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Date: 2012-03-18, 1:09PM EDT
Reply to: f466d-2908758473@sale.craigslist.org [Errors when replying to ads?]
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Get ready for Summer.

New Electric

New Cushions/Upholstery

LT1 350 V8

Trailer..needs work

Good Condition

Could use a good cleaning and waxing.

$6500 or best offer.

Can be seen any day.

Ratickle
03-22-2012, 10:50 PM
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/boa/2907850885.html


18ft DONZI CLASSIC 2+3 - $11000 (danville / san ramon)

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Date: 2012-03-17, 3:58PM PDT
Reply to: zmzw9-2907850885@sale.craigslist.org [Errors when replying to ads?]
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1986 DONZI CLASSIC 2+3 Super sweet 65mph boat, tracks like it is on rails, e-ticket ride. 350 chevy with 300 hp only 12 hours on new engine, all fresh water. Brand new out drive. Boat has trim tabs, custom trailer, carpet, boat cover, ready for summer fun. Serious inquiries only!




73174

Ratickle
03-22-2012, 10:53 PM
http://sanantonio.craigslist.org/boa/2886841323.html


1986 Donzi 2+3 - $7500 (new braunfels)

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Date: 2012-03-19, 9:57AM CDT
Reply to: hmvp5-2886841323@sale.craigslist.org [Errors when replying to ads?]
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very solid boat.
motor needs rebuilt
Alpha drive.
call 210-861-3078

Ratickle
03-22-2012, 10:57 PM
http://annapolis.craigslist.org/boa/2868405497.html

Donzi 16 ft with trailer - $4500 (pasadena md)

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Date: 2012-03-22, 8:45AM EDT
Reply to: s6h3q-2868405497@sale.craigslist.org [Errors when replying to ads?]
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Donzi Sweet 16 1968 Needs restored, Must see. A Real Sweet 16 Donzi. call 410-977-1236

Donskihp
03-23-2012, 12:56 AM
new braunfels ?

mattyboy
03-23-2012, 07:38 AM
Oh wow thanks for all the Info on the Classic 16, it really helps a lot. Big hp how much are you talk about? is 250hp big hp? If so I want a Skisporter or I guess a later 70s boats

the very early boats had 110 hp 4 cyl volvo and 165 hp 8 cyl interceptors with eaton drives. the drives were weak and then they put the eaton name on the volvo aq200 which could take more power . then Holman moody got involved . the late 60's saw a boom in muscle motors and that trickled down into the marine world. HM started to put the 289 hi po motor in boats at 271 hp, then the 302 235 hpand then the 351w 290 hp. the owners back then were no different from todays owners bigger is better. My 67 16 was repowered 2 years down the road in 69 from a 210 hp 289 and aq 200 to a 290 hp 351 and aq 250. When i say early boats i mean 64-65 ish. My 67 took a good beating with me and the new owner has shown it no mercy even running it up on the dock and the hull has not failed. in the early 70's they were powered by sbc lt1 motors up to 350 hp. a 16 with 300 + hp is a fun boat that everyonce in a while will jump up and scare you, but for a 16 foot boat handles snotty water really well once you're used to how it handles. My 16 never failed to get me and my family home even in 5 foot wakes on a busy day in 1000 islands.

good luck on the search ratickle has listed a few candidates

Offshore Ginger
03-23-2012, 10:20 AM
I,forgot to mention that the gentlemen selling the 20 Cig also has a 24 Cig ,for sale also .

Admin
03-24-2012, 09:46 AM
Thread edited. Please keep comments fair and factual.

Ratickle
03-24-2012, 01:44 PM
new braunfels ?

Must be a suburb

Ratickle
03-24-2012, 01:45 PM
I,forgot to mention that the gentlemen selling the 20 Cig also has a 24 Cig ,for sale also .


Cool. Love oldtime offshore boats. The more that are saved and rebuilt, the better....

Ratickle
03-24-2012, 01:48 PM
Oh wow thanks for all the Info on the Classic 16, it really helps a lot. Big hp how much are you talk about? is 250hp big hp? If so I want a Skisporter or I guess a later 70s boats

I'm getting the impression you're a die-hard Donzi fan. Did you read the Aronow blip I put in the one story about how Donzi got its name??? I actually did not know that until doing some looking for Charlie and the #1 nomination I put up for Don.

Ratickle
03-24-2012, 01:49 PM
Thread edited. Please keep comments fair and factual.

So true, we do not want to turn into one of those sites....


I'll keep watching the Donzi's out there. Looks like we have one of the experts on the thread now who is really familiar with the 16's and 18's.

Jalpa24
03-24-2012, 04:09 PM
I'm getting the impression you're a die-hard Donzi fan. Did you read the Aronow blip I put in the one story about how Donzi got its name??? I actually did not know that until doing some looking for Charlie and the #1 nomination I put up for Don.

I just love the looks of the Donzi classic. I do like the cigarettes alot but I think the Donzi classic will be easier to restore.

No I didn't see the story about how Donzi got its name but ill go look it up

Ratickle
03-24-2012, 04:29 PM
I just love the looks of the Donzi classic. I do like the cigarettes alot but I think the Donzi classic will be easier to restore.

No I didn't see the story about how Donzi got its name but ill go look it up

There are actually two stories out there. The first one is the one I think is accurate, from 1965 SI. I have it on here somewhere.

"Donzi Marine is not, as many might suppose, the name of a firm of Italian speed merchants like Ferrari. It represents the combined talents of two American marine enthusiasts from Miami: Designer Jim Wynne, one of the boat world's newest geniuses of the slide rule, and Boatbuilder Don Aronow. Their joint venture got its name when the two launched their first delicately sculptured, deep-V-bottomed boat, and Aronow mourned in mock despair: "Well, I suppose everybody will recognize it as a Wynne design." "But that's not fair, Donsy, baby," cooed a sympathetic secretary who had suffered through the construction with both of them. "Your name should be on it, too." So Donsy Baby became Donzi Marine, and Donzi Marine, from its first near win in the Miami- Key West race last November with bearded Jim Wynne at the helm, became the talk of the powerboat world."

The second is one that gets around, but I've heard no first hand, old-time, documentation....

The name Donzi came from Morris Levy, who was head of roulette records in NYC, a close friend of Don's. Morris had kidded with Don about being cited from esquire magazine for having a "classy interior design", since esquire was a fancy magazine, being cited for a classy interior from the magazine wasn't the most macho of honors.

Morris said to Don one night in a fairy type voice, " geez Donnie, I guess we'll have to start calling you 'Donsey.'

Maybe someone else has some firsthand info about that, but the first one is the most reported from way back in the day when Don was still out actively racing.

Jalpa24
03-24-2012, 04:30 PM
the very early boats had 110 hp 4 cyl volvo and 165 hp 8 cyl interceptors with eaton drives. the drives were weak and then they put the eaton name on the volvo aq200 which could take more power . then Holman moody got involved . the late 60's saw a boom in muscle motors and that trickled down into the marine world. HM started to put the 289 hi po motor in boats at 271 hp, then the 302 235 hpand then the 351w 290 hp. the owners back then were no different from todays owners bigger is better. My 67 16 was repowered 2 years down the road in 69 from a 210 hp 289 and aq 200 to a 290 hp 351 and aq 250. When i say early boats i mean 64-65 ish. My 67 took a good beating with me and the new owner has shown it no mercy even running it up on the dock and the hull has not failed. in the early 70's they were powered by sbc lt1 motors up to 350 hp. a 16 with 300 + hp is a fun boat that everyonce in a while will jump up and scare you, but for a 16 foot boat handles snotty water really well once you're used to how it handles. My 16 never failed to get me and my family home even in 5 foot wakes on a busy day in 1000 islands.

good luck on the search ratickle has listed a few candidates

Well im feeline better about the 16 classic now. now ill just have to wait tell a 16 or 18 comes up for sale this summer on the East Cost, Thanks again for all the info

Ratickle
03-24-2012, 04:41 PM
The one in Norwalk and the one in Pasedena, MD are both pretty close to you, aren't they? Cash offers usually mean less cost.....

Jalpa24
03-24-2012, 04:44 PM
Cool thanks for posting that Ratickle

Jalpa24
03-24-2012, 04:58 PM
The one in Norwalk and the one in Pasedena, MD are both pretty close to you, aren't they? Cash offers usually mean less cost.....

hmm im not shore where norwalk is ill look it up

Jalpa24
03-24-2012, 05:32 PM
Ok the one in Norwalk has been sold, but the one in MD is still for sale

mattyboy
03-24-2012, 09:15 PM
Ratickle

the second version is what I believe to be correct and is stated in the king of thunderboat row by Don's son Michael who was around at the time ( story was confirmed by Brownie some time back). Morris Levy was also part of getting the beatles out on a formula 233 with Don before Donzi.

Also involved and the real designer of the 16 was Walt Walters. Walters also stayed with Don thru Magnum and Cigarette. Wynne went out on his own after Donzi.

Jalpa,
We have a member of the lake george donzi classic club with a pristine 67 16 that's for sale not a project but an awesome example of a 16 If your interested I could get you in touch with them.

mattyboy
03-25-2012, 09:40 AM
here is a little more reading on the early years, if it is ok to post a link to another site. the main coversation here is between Don's son Michael and Allan Brown ( Brownie)

http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?28703-Donzi-Marine-63-65&highlight=

Ratickle
03-25-2012, 09:44 AM
That site is fine. As long as it's quid pro quo....


Actually, Jim is a mod here also and we chat.


I'll get ahold of Michael and Charlie and get some feedback. MAybe a new thread would be appropriate.

mattyboy
03-25-2012, 09:53 AM
Ratickle

I would think it is ok the other way round too my latin is lacking. If I can help let me know

Offshore Ginger
03-25-2012, 07:46 PM
Jalpa 24 , hey guy there are a few things here on this forum that have not yet been addresed like mentioned on www.donzi.net previously ...which are all about something .....as simple as using a fillet in there layup ................... ( Donzi ) which in the past because of a lack of has caused cracks along the base of the stringers which in the end will cause rot ........ to entire stringer systems if not addresed ,and to tell you the truth i can almost bet there will be a few people on this forum offering there opinions concering this issue .

Ratickle
03-26-2012, 06:43 PM
That would be really cool to know Artie....

Jalpa24
03-26-2012, 07:38 PM
Jalpa 24 , hey guy there are a few things here on this forum that have not yet been addresed like mentioned on www.donzi.net previously ...which are all about something .....as simple as using a fillet in there layup ................... ( Donzi ) which in the past because of a lack of has caused cracks along the base of the stringers which in the end will cause rot ........ to entire stringer systems if not addresed ,and to tell you the truth i can almost bet there will be a few people on this forum offering there opinions concering this issue .

Im sorry I'm having trouble understanding your post, are you saying thats theres wood in the hull? Isnt a fillet srip wood?

Offshore Ginger
03-27-2012, 08:51 AM
I , have a few X-TRA minutes and will try to explain some things a little better . A fillet is a cove-shaped application of thickend Epoxy or Poly / Vinyl , made from Cabosil that bridges an inside corner , filling all voids or gabs of a joint which also serves as a structural brace ,and all joints that will be covered with fabric should & will need a fillet to support the cloth thus ....... meaning if the joint does not have a fillet to support the fabric at the base of a stringer or joint it will eventually crack allowing water to wick thru the crack causing rot . jalpa , dont get me wrong donzi builds a great boat and in the future i just might be buying one also but to make a long story short and that is........... Donzi at at one point in time was lacking something as simple as a Fillet in there build which eventually resulted in problems down the road .

Ratickle
03-27-2012, 10:29 AM
From Bertram...

73182

http://www.bertram31.com/proj/tips/epoxy.htm

Offshore Ginger
03-27-2012, 07:20 PM
Paul ,not trying to be rude but............ after reading everything in your last post from Bert , i noticed that there was no mention of laminating over the fillet other then spraying it with a primer and if i would have followed all those steps mentioned above just to make a fillet while at Skater even using tape i would have been fired . Ha Ha Ha Ha if you know what i mean ....Ha Ha Ha ......Thanks very interesting read .................

Ratickle
03-27-2012, 08:39 PM
I was just giving him a picture of what the end result would be if done with a filet. I expected you to do all of the explaining of how to do it properly and why, plus the results if not done properly (which is the point you brought up...)

Now get to work...:toetap05:


:sifone:

Jalpa24
03-28-2012, 06:34 AM
Oh ok that helps,

Ratickle
03-28-2012, 09:37 PM
Oh ok that helps,


I'm sure Artie will fill in the proper way to build a filet. 2TR is doing some nice ones on his cat changeover to a four-person canopy....