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Pete B
02-29-2012, 10:21 PM
Will 23000 lbs of thrust be enough???
http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m126/pete454/298650_297907100234490_100000456084584_1085526_1977339548_n.jpg

old377guy
03-01-2012, 01:37 AM
depends on whether its a light or heavy layup and of course how big the beak is:)

Bobcat
03-01-2012, 08:07 AM
It should be.....who's crazy enough to try?

Pete B
03-01-2012, 08:20 AM
His name is Daniel Dehaemers, he is from Belguim, I will be adding photos of his boat, which he has built he is very meticulous about layup and schedules.

Ratickle
03-01-2012, 09:01 AM
Didn't Warby's only (only?) have 3000 lbs of thrust????? A J34?

rschap1
03-01-2012, 12:13 PM
Not propellor driven:(

Pete B
03-01-2012, 05:46 PM
Didn't Warby's only (only?) have 3000 lbs of thrust????? A J34?

yes, 3000 lbs thrust from a J-34, This motor is a Rolls Royce olympus. with After burner 40000 pounds thrust. Still have to Fact check but I believe these motors were used in the Concorde!

Ratickle
03-01-2012, 05:50 PM
The guy must be crazy.......

Pete B
03-01-2012, 06:11 PM
The mold for the Dartagan SP600


http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m126/pete454/310248_280228992002301_100000456084584_1019355_555599545_n.jpg

Buoy
03-01-2012, 07:33 PM
there are cheaper ways to commit suicide, and they don't take as much work.

Ratickle
03-01-2012, 08:45 PM
Warby set the current record in 1978. 317.6 mph.

There's only been two official attempts to break it since.

Lee Taylor tried to get the record back in 1980. Taylor built a rocket-powered boat, Discovery II, 40-foot long reverse three-point design. Doing a test run, at 270 mph, Discovery II hit a swell and the front of the boat collapsed causing the boat to crash. It took three days to recover Lee's body in the cockpit.

Then, in 1989, Craig Arfons, nephew of Art Arfons, tried for the record in his Rain X Challenger, but he was killed when the boat flipped at 301.875 mph.

Not a record I'd have the balls to try for......

Ratickle
03-01-2012, 08:49 PM
Discovery II's rocket engine had 8,000 lbs of thrust by the way...

Ratickle
03-01-2012, 08:54 PM
Arfons boat was running 3300 lbs of thrust, 4000 in afterburner......


It was supposedly clocked at around 375 by APBA, some have said as high as 440 peak.......

Ratickle
03-01-2012, 08:58 PM
yes, 3000 lbs thrust from a J-34, This motor is a Rolls Royce olympus. with After burner 40000 pounds thrust. Still have to Fact check but I believe these motors were used in the Concorde!


It looks like there are several versions of the Olympus. They seem to vary between 6,000 lbs of thrust up to 38,000 lbs of thrust. So, I guess it depends on which model and version he has......

Pete B
03-01-2012, 09:27 PM
Testing the lamination schedule, 23 tons PSI


http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m126/pete454/379067_312084728816727_100000456084584_1127059_1163738055_n.jpg

Pete B
03-01-2012, 09:30 PM
here is the bottom of the Cockpit, 15 layers of Carbonfiber and 1 layer of Hybride Carbon Kevlar

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m126/pete454/36139_161082227250312_100000456084584_407980_5240954_n.jpg

Top Banana
03-01-2012, 10:05 PM
Pete a good guy for this fellow to speak with is Harry Schoel down in Ft. Lauderdale. I know he and Brownie have been working with steam engines recently, But both of those guy have forgotten more than most of us could ever hope to learn about what really works.

Pete B
03-01-2012, 10:10 PM
I think Daniel has been around since Noah as well! or at least as long as Ratickle!

Bobcat
03-02-2012, 07:53 AM
Same guy ?? 72935








All kidding aside I wish luck. Where is the attempt going to be made ? The Salton Sea ?

C35
03-02-2012, 08:45 AM
no such thing as protection at those sort of speeds. no matter what youre strapped into- barrel roll at 300 plus you might not even scratch the saftey capsule but youll find a flawless corpse inside. warby only lived cuz he didnt crash. other guys- not so much.

redhotsommer
03-02-2012, 09:43 AM
Same guy ?? 72935








All kidding aside I wish luck. Where is the attempt going to be made ? The Salton Sea ?

That cat guy is AWESOME!

And the other guy is just nuts. Big, big nuts.

Ratickle
03-02-2012, 09:59 AM
no such thing as protection at those sort of speeds. no matter what youre strapped into- barrel roll at 300 plus you might not even scratch the saftey capsule but youll find a flawless corpse inside. warby only lived cuz he didnt crash. other guys- not so much.

I believe that 230+ is the fastest a drag boat guy has survived in their capsules. I think, with the proper engineering, a 300+ crash is survivable in a record attempt boat. But, not in every case depending on the crash hit.

You'd have to have a crumple zone, around a breakaway capsule of some kind. But, even at that, a stuff and it's over because of the trauma. I think Lee's was a stuff because one of the front sponsons broke off in Lake Tahoe.

Top Banana
03-02-2012, 01:05 PM
I was discussing with Harry Schoel, the speeds that the boats were getting up to at the shootout and he described it vividly to me like this....

When you guys were racing in the 70's if you caught a drop of water with some spray, you got wet and you carried on, but with these speeds of 200 plus even a single drop of water has enough energy to rip your skin off!!!!

Bobcat
03-02-2012, 06:37 PM
That's an eye opener right there Charlie.

TYPHOON
03-04-2012, 05:18 PM
If someone had a few months to live beacause of some illness then go for it. If not then you are just asking for a death wish. Its way,way,way to riskey !!!!!!

Scotty B
03-05-2012, 03:17 PM
The World water speed record attempt has killed all except Warby. Ken Warby is the man and I am honored to be his friend

TYPHOON
03-05-2012, 07:56 PM
How does the record work? What happens if you go 400 MPH on the clock and you get killed slowing down. Are you the new record holder or do you have to live? At what point are you a plane and flying instead of being a boat? If you took a sea plane and started in the water and stopped in the water whats the differance or are wings not allowed? I agree Ken W. is the man and my hat is off to his record. He is one lucky man to have lived and set the mark.

fund razor
03-05-2012, 07:56 PM
The World water speed record attempt has killed all except Warby. Ken Warby is the man and I am honored to be his friend That's pretty cool. I always thought he was the man. As a fan. Never met him personally. But learned as much as I could. You have a similar role for many people. An ambassador for the guys who are way out there on the edge. It's cool for us who don't get to go 200+ to get to associate with you, whether at events or like this. You are both great ambassadors for the illness. :)

Buoy
03-05-2012, 10:28 PM
You guys have stones that I don't have.
I may have been able to do it as a younger man, but, not today.

Ratickle
03-05-2012, 11:26 PM
Actually there was one guy who was documented to have gone faster way back in 1968? maybe. I can look it up. But he died and the record was at first documented, then not. I'm not sure if it was because he died, but I believe so.....


I'll do some digging.....

Ratickle
03-06-2012, 08:59 AM
Record Holders, Historical

mph km/h Craft Pilot(s) Location Date

70.86 114.04 Hydrodome IV Casey Baldwin Bras d'Or Lake 19 September 1919
74.870 120.492 Miss America Gar Wood Detroit River 15 September 1920
80.567 129.660 Miss America II Gar Wood Detroit River 6 September 1921
87.392 140.644 Farman Hydroglider Jules Fisher River Seine 10 November 1924
92.838 149.409 Miss America II George Wood Detroit River 4 September 1928
93.123 149.867 Miss America VII Gar Wood Indian Creek 23 March 1929
98.760 158.938 Miss England II Henry Segrave Windermere 13 June 1930
102.256 164.565 Miss America IX Gar Wood Indian Creek 20 March 1931
103.49 166.55 Miss England II Kaye Don Paraná River 15 April 1931
110.223 177.387 Miss England II Kaye Don Lake Garda 31 July 1931
111.712 179.783 Miss America IX Gar Wood Indian Creek 5 February 1932
117 189 Miss England III Kaye Don Loch Lomond 18 July 1932
119.81 192.82 Miss England III Kaye Don Loch Lomond 18 July 1932
124.86 200.94 Miss America X Gar Wood St. Clair River 20 September 1932
126.32 203.29 Bluebird K3 Malcolm Campbell Lake Maggiore 1 September 1937
129.50 208.41 Bluebird K3 Malcolm Campbell Lake Maggiore 2 September 1937
130.91 210.66 Bluebird K3 Malcolm Campbell Hallwilersee 17 September 1938
141.74 228.11 Bluebird K4 Malcolm Campbell Coniston Water 19 August 1939
160.323 258.015 Slo-Mo-Shun IV Stanley Sayres, Ted O. Jones Lake Washington 26 June 1950
178.497 287.263 Slo-Mo-Shun IV Stanley Sayres, Elmer Leninschmidt Lake Washington 7 July 1952
202.32 325.60 Bluebird K7 Donald Campbell Ullswater 23 July 1955
216.20 347.94 Bluebird K7 Donald Campbell Lake Mead 16 November 1955
225.63 363.12 Bluebird K7 Donald Campbell Coniston Water 19 September 1956
239.07 384.75 Bluebird K7 Donald Campbell Coniston Water 7 November 1957
248.62 400.12 Bluebird K7 Donald Campbell Coniston Water 10 November 1958
260.35 418.99 Bluebird K7 Donald Campbell Coniston Water 14 May 1959
276.33 444.71 Bluebird K7 Donald Campbell Lake Dumbleyung 31 December 1964
285.22 459.02 Hustler Lee Taylor Lake Guntersville 30 June 1967
288.60 464.46 Spirit of Australia Ken Warby Blowering Dam 20 November 1977
317.596 511.13 Spirit of Australia Ken Warby Blowering Dam 8 October 1978

Ratickle
03-06-2012, 09:08 AM
Warby's two records.....


Takes some big ones not to back out when it starts rocking at over 300mph.....




http://youtu.be/ezl8Yb8idyY

T2x
03-06-2012, 09:33 AM
The only way IMHO to break that record with some degree of safety and sanity is with size. With the power reportedly available (38,000 lbs thrust), I submit that an 80 plus foot hull would be the ticket. Make the damn thing big enough and the scale speed will decrease measureably......

Looking at the "hull mold", and the "tub" , and the reported power...This will probably end in disaster.


God Bless him,

T2x

Sean Stinson
03-06-2012, 11:03 AM
The only way IMHO to break that record with some degree of safety and sanity is with size. With the power reportedly available (38,000 lbs thrust), I submit that an 80 plus foot hull would be the ticket. Make the damn thing big enough and the scale speed will decrease measureably......

Looking at the "hull mold", and the "tub" , and the reported power...This will probably end in disaster.


God Bless him,

T2x

I have o agree with Rich....that's a whole lot of power for that little boat!!!!

appsyscons
03-06-2012, 06:51 PM
yes, 3000 lbs thrust from a J-34, This motor is a Rolls Royce olympus. with After burner 40000 pounds thrust. Still have to Fact check but I believe these motors were used in the Concorde!

Yes, the Rolls-Royce/Snecma Olympus 593 was used on the Concorde. The final version had a bit under 40K lbf, in rehead (afterburner) mode.

DONZI
03-07-2012, 08:37 PM
A tough record to get for sure as history shows us -


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3V9r1zsFmVk&feature=fvst

Bobcat
03-07-2012, 10:33 PM
Good find DONZI.

rschap1
03-08-2012, 12:02 PM
X2

Ratickle
03-09-2012, 03:12 PM
There are currently 4 different projects in the works to try to break the record.


Interestingly enough, until Warby, no one other than an American or Englishman had ever held the record. Now it's the longest any one person has ever held it....

Donskihp
03-10-2012, 12:00 AM
Has anyone heard any new coming out of Al Copelands camp on the Phenomenon prodject? It's been quite awhile

Ratickle
03-10-2012, 06:27 PM
The latest is there is a decent chance it will be at the APBA's Biloxi speed run in May.

Pete B
03-10-2012, 10:45 PM
some updates


http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m126/pete454/422186_370105026348030_100000456084584_1290792_760706515_n.jpg


http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m126/pete454/424394_368275586530974_100000456084584_1284621_2061461427_n.jpg


http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m126/pete454/417652_366733866685146_100000456084584_1278984_787635969_n.jpg


http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m126/pete454/431562_374979909193875_100000456084584_1304116_64664226_n.jpg

C35
03-11-2012, 09:45 AM
if he survives he should strap some rollerskates to the bottom of that engine and ride it to a land speed record.

73046

Pete B
03-11-2012, 10:02 AM
Not 100% sure why all the negative comments, Yes this is dangerous, but as the saying goes "records were made to be broken" While Mr.Warby's record stands, he persisted to beat the previous record. He never gave up, and made history, I dont think Daniel is some crackpot out to kill himself, he is being very methodical in his approach. I wish him all the luck!

Bobcat
03-11-2012, 05:31 PM
Did he say where he is going to attempt the record Pete?

C35
03-12-2012, 10:24 AM
i dont think its negative. i think its realistic. like someone said, warby is the only one that lived. that and the thing where no one has tried in decades says something.

also- its not negative to joke about it. look at that motor and then look at the hull- tell me that doesnt look instantly deadly- a concorde engine in what looks smaller than a hydro.

if he was my friend or relative id burn his garage down to keep him from trying. being an astronaut or a fireman and risking life for a reason is diffrent than things like this.

T2x
03-12-2012, 02:05 PM
I dont think Daniel is some crackpot out to kill himself, he is being very methodical in his approach

Do you know him personally? This is not something that anyone has undertaken lightly in the past, yet it has resulted in almost universally disastrous results... When you apply 10 times the power to a similar sized boat as the one currently holding the record...you might have missed a decimal point somewhere....and, frankly, that carbon fiber safety "tub" needs to completely surround him. It also should be egg shaped and "break away" installed with all "drive by wire" controls....because when the crash comes, his only hope will be to have a life sustaining cocoon with a parachute to decelerate him out of the ballistic speed range he will be playing in..... Many of the people killed in rapid deceleration and spinning accidents die without a mark on their bodies or physical insult of any kind. Their internal organs simply tear apart under the torsional stresses experienced.

Pete B
03-12-2012, 03:19 PM
I dont know him personally, however, his attempt will be to set the new mark. I certainly understand the ending results could not end well. But hey who would thunk some one withe a jet engine and some plywood could have set the mark that currently holds the record.

Pete B
03-12-2012, 03:20 PM
from the mold the hull emerges:


http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m126/pete454/422992_378251108866755_100000456084584_1313889_1847593694_n.jpg

C35
03-12-2012, 04:29 PM
gotta say one thing- big cojones on that boy.

thanks for the cool pics and the look at what hes doing.

fund razor
03-12-2012, 06:16 PM
Not 100% sure why all the negative comments, Yes this is dangerous, but as the saying goes "records were made to be broken" While Mr.Warby's record stands, he persisted to beat the previous record. He never gave up, and made history, I dont think Daniel is some crackpot out to kill himself, he is being very methodical in his approach. I wish him all the luck!The updates have been great. And appreciated. I was amazed at the bagging pics. I love custom stuff and speed and this is both. I think that technology has always advanced when people pushed the envelope. I am grateful to follow this as much as you'll share, and will be with him in spirit and prayer when he goes for it. I too wish him all the luck. Thanks for posting this stuff.

Ratickle
03-12-2012, 06:31 PM
I've been doing some thinking and research on similar items....


Several going on currently, but the one that comes to mind the fastest, Yeager and the speed of sound. Until they figured out what was going on, everyone who tried died. That's why it was named the sound "Barrier"........

I am really curious as to the design, etc. And why the heck would he choose that much thrust? It is three times as much as has ever been tried. There must be a reason.

Egg shaped Rich, makes sense. But I sure as heck would not want to be in it if there was a failure....

Are the current Unlimiteds egg shaped to any extent???? I believe the drag boats are somewhat....

Ratickle
03-12-2012, 06:32 PM
As for the negative, I understand it has been a very disastrous record to chase. But, all records are there to be broken, or at least attempt breaking. Otherwise, Warby wouldn't currently have his.

fund razor
03-12-2012, 06:43 PM
As for the negative, I understand it has been a very disastrous record to chase. But, all records are there to be broken, or at least attempt breaking. Otherwise, Warby wouldn't currently have his.I think that we live during an increasingly practical age. I think that many of us are boating the way we do and at the custom level that we do for impractical reasons. In our own small ways, are we not all test pilots? And while we don't risk as much as Daniel... we don't get the same reward. Yet we chase something. Something impractical, unpredictable, and fast. I don't want to live in a world in which we aren't allowed to do this. At his speed, or ours.

T2x
03-16-2012, 09:51 AM
Egg shaped Rich, makes sense. But I sure as heck would not want to be in it if there was a failure....

Are the current Unlimiteds egg shaped to any extent???? I believe the drag boats are somewhat....

The F-16 cowling profile if carried to a complete conclusion whould be a cylinderical elongated egg to deflect external forces. This is the basis for the current unlimited canopies. The overall egg shape cockpit was tried by Fabio Buzzi in a cat in the mid 80's with pods that were designed to detach from the hull in the evnt of a violent crash, but I don't believe such a disaster occurred. The bottom line is the safety cockpit in this boat must be designed to protect the driver in dynamics that resemble a plane crash. If such technology exists, it has yet to come to the public.

While I do respect high speed record attempts, especially on the water, sadly I feel that this is like encouraging someone to drive into a bridge at a speed faster than anyone else has ever survived. If this is your definition of freedom....keep it.

fund razor
03-16-2012, 11:33 AM
Encouraging it is perhaps reckless.

Understanding it is perhaps foolish.

Allowing it certainly seems the definition of freedom.
I think that Gar Wood and Ken Warby enjoyed this freedom. A freedom that exists less and less in the "save everybody from themselves" culture that we have evolved toward as we shifted our sights as a nation from the moon to the courtroom.

Maybe I'm reckless, or foolish, or maybe I'm just too young still to become a nervous crone. I don't ride a turbocharged motorcycle anymore, so while I am more cautious than I used to be, I still have an interest the very few remaining frontiers that exist in our world. One day, there will be speed limits on the open waters, and men like Wood and Warby will all be safe from themselves.

If the amalgam of bravery and stupidity was more easily separated by wise and clairvoyant men, we'd have rejected the wheel. We'd have prudently admired the moon, but never touched it. We'd have stared at the sea but never ventured to unknown lands. We'd have pondered the view from a treetop but never climbed a tree. We'd have stayed on our own side of every mountain. We'd have never exceeded the speed of sound. All foolish endeavors undertaken by men so much less wise than ourselves.

T2x
03-16-2012, 05:10 PM
Encouraging it is perhaps reckless.

Understanding it is perhaps foolish.

Allowing it certainly seems the definition of freedom.
I think that Gar Wood and Ken Warby enjoyed this freedom. A freedom that exists less and less in the "save everybody from themselves" culture that we have evolved toward as we shifted our sights as a nation from the moon to the courtroom.

Maybe I'm reckless, or foolish, or maybe I'm just too young still to become a nervous crone. I don't ride a turbocharged motorcycle anymore, so while I am more cautious than I used to be, I still have an interest the very few remaining frontiers that exist in our world. One day, there will be speed limits on the open waters, and men like Wood and Warby will all be safe from themselves.

If the amalgam of bravery and stupidity was more easily separated by wise and clairvoyant men, we'd have rejected the wheel. We'd have prudently admired the moon, but never touched it. We'd have stared at the sea but never ventured to unknown lands. We'd have pondered the view from a treetop but never climbed a tree. We'd have stayed on our own side of every mountain. We'd have never exceeded the speed of sound. All foolish endeavors undertaken by men so much less wise than ourselves.

Don't misunderstand, I will fight for his right to attempt anything that won't harm anyone else. On the other hand if you meet someone who is trying to launch himself to the moon in a hermetically sealed 57 Chevy, with onboard oxygen, using a 100 yard high slingshot....you might try and talk him out of it.... :D

fund razor
03-16-2012, 05:28 PM
Don't misunderstand, I will fight for his right to attempt anything that won't harm anyone else. On the other hand if you meet someone who is trying to launch himself to the moon in a hermetically sealed 57 Chevy, with onboard oxygen, using a 100 yard high slingshot....you might try and talk him out of it.... :D

Depends on the guy. :D

No. I see your point.

Pete B
03-16-2012, 06:55 PM
Don't misunderstand, I will fight for his right to attempt anything that won't harm anyone else. On the other hand if you meet someone who is trying to launch himself to the moon in a hermetically sealed 57 Chevy, with onboard oxygen, using a 100 yard high slingshot....you might try and talk him out of it.... :D


Just to save the 57 chevy!!

Bobcat
03-16-2012, 10:18 PM
:D:D

old377guy
03-17-2012, 10:10 AM
Encouraging it is perhaps reckless.

Understanding it is perhaps foolish.

Allowing it certainly seems the definition of freedom.
I think that Gar Wood and Ken Warby enjoyed this freedom. A freedom that exists less and less in the "save everybody from themselves" culture that we have evolved toward as we shifted our sights as a nation from the moon to the courtroom.

Maybe I'm reckless, or foolish, or maybe I'm just too young still to become a nervous crone. I don't ride a turbocharged motorcycle anymore, so while I am more cautious than I used to be, I still have an interest the very few remaining frontiers that exist in our world. One day, there will be speed limits on the open waters, and men like Wood and Warby will all be safe from themselves.

If the amalgam of bravery and stupidity was more easily separated by wise and clairvoyant men, we'd have rejected the wheel. We'd have prudently admired the moon, but never touched it. We'd have stared at the sea but never ventured to unknown lands. We'd have pondered the view from a treetop but never climbed a tree. We'd have stayed on our own side of every mountain. We'd have never exceeded the speed of sound. All foolish endeavors undertaken by men so much less wise than ourselves.

very well said

Ratickle
03-18-2012, 10:02 AM
Yes it is. Almost, (I said almost Fund:cool:) frameable.....

Ratickle
03-19-2012, 09:31 AM
I was reading about some of the other undertakings of man, and the comments difference between positive and negative with the same message.


Negative, if you attempt this you are likely to fail.

Positive, if you try this during your attempt, you have a better chance of success.

Is that the simplest version?

lohring
03-19-2012, 11:30 AM
We've been attracted to water records for a long time. First it was the gasoline engine powered radio controlled model boat record. We were the first to set a record of over 100 mph in 2003 and our record of 109+ mph set in 2004 still stands. Next it was the full size electric power record. We felt that was the only technically interesting record that was low enough no one would die in the attempt. We set the APBA and UIM records in 2008 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yNu2_LlO9s&feature=g-user-u&context=G2bda22cUCGXQYbcTJ33anslYrqDmj-fSicyPnU4QnKWcj2FZIuiE). Even though we wanted them over 100 mph the 98+ mph speed was almost twice the previous world record. The propeller driven record would also be interesting. Dan Ellison, a former model boat designer, has built drag boats that easily exceed the current record. A turbine would be more reliable for sustained (if you can call the time to go a kilometer twice sustained) power. Devils Lake might be a little small as well, even for a drag boat. All the pieces are there, it only takes money and lots of dedication.

Lohring Miller

Ratickle
03-19-2012, 11:49 AM
That is just amazing.

chewiekw
03-20-2012, 01:27 PM
73123

What boat was this? Any other pictures?

Ratickle
03-20-2012, 02:11 PM
There is a video on that boat somewhere when it flipped. It was about the last canard style built I think. I'll go digging....

Ratickle
03-20-2012, 02:17 PM
2:24 mark.....


http://youtu.be/ag6BgfFgikc

rschap1
03-21-2012, 11:32 AM
YIKES

Ratickle
03-22-2012, 09:05 AM
Yep. When STeve talks about the improvements they've made since the earlier days of hydro racing, it is really true how many lives have been saved.

Ratickle
04-05-2012, 07:01 PM
There are two or three other record attempts in the works currently. One, Nigel Macknight, inspired by Britain's guts-and-glory past, hopes to reclaim the record with Quicksilver. I've really enjoyed some of Warby's comments about the attempts to be coming up. This one is an example.


Quicksilver will have no active aerodynamic controls. "In my book, if it has aerodynamic controls, it's an airplane skimming along the water, not a boat," is what Macknight says. "Where do you draw the line?" Quicksilver will have four hydraulically activated planing surfaces attached to load cells via a computer that will measure the weight of the machine on the water, changing the position of the planing surfaces to adjust the boat's pitch.

In addition, the flight-control surfaces will be moving dozens of times a second. Macknight believes the planing surfaces can't move fast enough. "Water is just too variable," he says. "Waves, ripples, spray, the boat's overpressure - it's like a nonlinear cobblestone road that is changing so quickly you'd always be several cycles behind, so our planing surfaces will move just 10 to 15 times during a run."

A host of sensors - 86 on Quicksilver - are key to success. These indicators will measure the crafts' parameters during every run and feed data to laptops on shore. "We'll take the boat to a target speed and look at the loads, and if everything is OK and it's behaving like it's supposed to, we can bump the speed up 10 knots," says Dixon Smith. That way, if something starts to go wrong, they can stop.

Ken Warby; "They better have some awful smart people programming those computers," he says. "When you look down that lake, you better have all your homework done, because your chances are 50-50 - and you better be in the right 50 percent. And you better be doing it for the right reasons. If I blow through the trap at 400 and nobody even knows about it, that's OK," he says. "I do it for myself, because I know I've built a better mousetrap."


Wicks; "What Warby did was amazing, but the era of brute force and guts is over."

Spencer
04-05-2012, 09:18 PM
If they turn it into a Nintendo game, what's the purpose? If I parachute out of an airplane onto the summit of Everest, am I Hilary's equal?

Like the old line- "Ruth did it on beer and hot dogs"

Bobcat
04-05-2012, 10:14 PM
Brute force is still my favorite way of dealing with small minds and weak backs.

Ratickle
04-06-2012, 07:30 PM
If they turn it into a Nintendo game, what's the purpose? If I parachute out of an airplane onto the summit of Everest, am I Hilary's equal?

Like the old line- "Ruth did it on beer and hot dogs"

Sounds like something Warby would say....

Pete B
04-12-2012, 09:12 PM
a couple of update photos

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m126/pete454/540259_385870668104799_100000456084584_1337642_1859635532_n.jpg


http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m126/pete454/530037_398546990170500_100000456084584_1379272_1678114598_n.jpg

Pete B
07-20-2012, 09:36 AM
after a small 2 month vacation, Daniel is back at work, laying out the fuselage!


http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh201/Pboden19/549004_460781173947081_1522779438_n.jpg

Bobcat
07-20-2012, 03:57 PM
Pretty cool...love the shop!

SteveDavid
07-22-2012, 12:19 AM
This was Ken Dryden driving the Elam sponsored Unlimited in Seattle. This happened during testing the morning prior to the race. The boat did not blow over, but rose in the air, stalled and came back hard and flat on the front center sponson. When the boat landed the center sponson snapped where his legs were and Ken suffered severe breakage of both legs. Today he's fine, went on to crew chief the PICO Unlimited when it won a number of races under Fred Lelands ownership.

Ratickle
07-22-2012, 10:00 PM
This was Ken Dryden driving the Elam sponsored Unlimited in Seattle. This happened during testing the morning prior to the race. The boat did not blow over, but rose in the air, stalled and came back hard and flat on the front center sponson. When the boat landed the center sponson snapped where his legs were and Ken suffered severe breakage of both legs. Today he's fine, went on to crew chief the PICO Unlimited when it won a number of races under Fred Lelands ownership.

That was definitely a hard hit.

Ken Dryden takes the U-4 Miss Elam Plus out for a qualifying attempt at the 1994 Texaco Cup at Seafair. While doing about 130 down the starightaway. Elam lifted and launched way up their before slamming down into Lk. Washington. The boat was a radical 4 point hull built by Glen Davis in 1989. It ran T-53 Lycoming turbine motor. Ken Dryden was seriously hurt after this incident and is fortunate to be alive.

A couple of different angles from back then.


http://youtu.be/JLnSXftNlhI

T2x
07-24-2012, 12:04 PM
That is a very unusual "near" flip.....It looks like the air pressure on the back half of the hull and underside of the stabilizer wing reversed the rotation in mid air...... interesting....but still very dangerous. Once you reach critical attack angle (varies based on speed and hull design) the situation has already been taken out of your hands. At record speeds with the huge thrust and acceleration, you will rarely be able to "drive" out of trouble, so your only hope is your safety capsule. If Daniel is truly considering that size window canopy and field of vision (as shown in his mock up photo), I am very concerned that he has compromised the structural integrity of his cockpit completely. If it were me, I would use a very small eye slit made of polycarbonate with at least the strength and thickness of the surrounding coccoon ( think egg shaped 3"+ thick carbon fiber "bulb" with chrome moly tube internal skeleton) and install video screens for side and aft vision.....

Ratickle
07-25-2012, 10:30 AM
That's a good point, we'll have to find out.

Pete B
08-27-2012, 12:54 PM
http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh201/Pboden19/320125_474531219238743_585982919_n.jpg

Bobcat
08-27-2012, 02:50 PM
Nice Three Musketeers reference on the Bullit.:cool:

Blowtorch
11-16-2012, 09:17 AM
Warby Motorsport

We are back on the net, Home Page (http://warbymotorsport.com) is up and running, with 100's of pics from our family albums and some history behind Ken & his achievements, covering 40 years of jet vehicles..all 3 jet boats , jet dragsters, jet Funny cars and jet truck, and home of the fastest man on water

Ratickle
11-16-2012, 09:21 AM
Warby Motorsport

We are back on the net, Home Page (http://warbymotorsport.com) is up and running, with 100's of pics from our family albums and some history behind Ken & his achievements, covering 40 years of jet vehicles..all 3 jet boats , jet dragsters, jet Funny cars and jet truck, and home of the fastest man on water

Welcome Ken, good to finally have you here. I've used several of your quotes, and sure wish we could have made Jupiter to chat.....

Bobcat
11-16-2012, 03:42 PM
:iagree:

RaceConcepts
12-10-2012, 06:16 PM
74983
We've been attracted to water records for a long time. First it was the gasoline engine powered radio controlled model boat record. We were the first to set a record of over 100 mph in 2003 and our record of 109+ mph set in 2004 still stands. Next it was the full size electric power record. We felt that was the only technically interesting record that was low enough no one would die in the attempt. We set the APBA and UIM records in 2008 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yNu2_LlO9s&feature=g-user-u&context=G2bda22cUCGXQYbcTJ33anslYrqDmj-fSicyPnU4QnKWcj2FZIuiE). Even though we wanted them over 100 mph the 98+ mph speed was almost twice the previous world record. The propeller driven record would also be interesting. Dan Ellison, a former model boat designer, has built drag boats that easily exceed the current record. A turbine would be more reliable for sustained (if you can call the time to go a kilometer twice sustained) power. Devils Lake might be a little small as well, even for a drag boat. All the pieces are there, it only takes money and lots of dedication.

Lohring MillerVery interested to see all the current projects for the WSR and who will ACTUALLY get a boat on the water.
Loring, You might be interested to know I have several new projects in the works, A completly new TopFuelHydro Plug(I won't be building the boats), A kilo outrigger for a propeller class but I'm not supposed to say yet, and the WSR boat. These are all different outrigger type hydro's specific for intended use. I can say two of the 3 will be run(tested) this summer (2013). I also built and sold one of my new circuit outrigger's that will be run as a 5ltr, Heres a photo of the 5ltr.

Regards, Dan

Ratickle
12-11-2012, 05:13 AM
Well, I'm looking at your boat, and I know we need its own thread.

I raced RC's back a few years, and set a few world records then in IMPBA. Your sponson design looks really close to some I have in the garage on the shelf. I am positive they are yours. I would put them on a center section we would build out of carbon/kevlar/balsa. I never thought they would have been incorporated into a full size boat.

Can you get a thread going about this one?

Dr. X
01-09-2013, 05:57 PM
Lee Taylor's Discovery II rocket boat crashed because he was running it in water too rough for a boat with sponson angles that steep. If he'd stuck with running the boat in glass smooth water he might have been alright.

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Dr. X
01-09-2013, 06:07 PM
Craig Arfons' boat was a stretched Deaver type dragboat hull. It weighed about 2,500 lbs. The engine was a General Electric J-85 turbojet producing about 5,000 lbs thrust in afterburner. For reasons nobody ever figured out, the boat would always veer off to the driver's right.

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Dr. X
01-09-2013, 06:11 PM
Another new boat at an advanced stage of construction is Colin Johns' Rush. RUSH WWSR - Home (http://www.rushwwsr.com/)

Dr. X
01-09-2013, 09:20 PM
Twin-engine jet boat planned in the late sixties by Craig Breedlove. 7514475145

Dr. X
01-09-2013, 09:39 PM
75146A water speed record boat planned in the early eighties by Phllip Villa, nephew of Leo Villa. Like Taylor's rocket boat, the steep sponson angles would have caused a violent response to waves, creating a problem in anything except glass smooth water.

Dr. X
01-09-2013, 09:47 PM
Images of the Craig Arfons crash.
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Hellbent
01-09-2013, 10:39 PM
Great posts Doc!

Bobcat
01-10-2013, 09:52 AM
Thanks Dr. X, and welcome to SOS !:seeya:

old377guy
01-10-2013, 11:38 AM
so the Doctor is in, eh? Welcome

appsyscons
01-10-2013, 11:42 AM
so the Doctor is in, eh? Welcome

take two, and call him in the morning

Dr. X
01-10-2013, 12:15 PM
British Pathe newsreel of John Cobb's Crusader jet boat making its public debut. JET NEWS - JOHN COBB'S "CRUSADER" JET SPEED BOAT - British Pathé (http://www.britishpathe.com/video/jet-news-john-cobbs-crusader-jet-speed-boat)

Dr. X
01-10-2013, 12:17 PM
British Pathe newsreel of John Cobb testing the Crusader. COBB TESTS THE "CRUSADER" - British Pathé (http://www.britishpathe.com/video/cobb-tests-the-crusader)

Dr. X
01-10-2013, 12:20 PM
British Pathe newsreel of the White Hawk jet hydrofoil boat being tested. 'WHITE HAWK' SPEED TRIALS - British Pathé (http://www.britishpathe.com/video/white-hawk-speed-trials)

Dr. X
01-10-2013, 12:23 PM
British Pathe newsreel showing details of the White Hawk jet hydrofoil boat. Selected Originals - MEN ON THE MOVE - NEW WATER SPEED BID aka WHITE HAWK JET SPEED BOAT - British Pathé (http://www.britishpathe.com/video/selected-originals-men-on-the-move-new-water-speed)

Dr. X
01-10-2013, 12:34 PM
British Pathe newsreel from 1958 showing drag chute test with Bluebird. DONALD CAMPBELL MAKES PARACHUTE BREAKING TEST - British Pathé (http://www.britishpathe.com/video/donald-campbell-makes-parachute-breaking-test)

Dr. X
01-10-2013, 12:38 PM
Color documentary from 1955 of Donald Campbell's record attempt on Lake Mead. Donald Campbell World Water Speed Record 16 Nov 1955 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0aDB4Rdlzc)

Dr. X
01-10-2013, 01:39 PM
Map of Lake Jackson, Sebring, Florida where Craig Arfons made his WSR attempt. The last run initiated inside the small cove at the north end, proceeding southeast along the longest possible straight.

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Dr. X
01-10-2013, 05:32 PM
Les Staudacher jet hydroplanes -- Tempo Alcoa and Miss Stars and Stripes
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Dr. X
01-10-2013, 05:37 PM
More of Miss Stars and Stripes

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Bobcat
01-10-2013, 05:43 PM
Who was killed on Loch Ness back in the 70's?

Dr. X
01-10-2013, 05:45 PM
Who was killed on Loch Ness back in the 70's?

John Cobb was killed on Loch Ness in 1952.

Link to British Pathe newsreel - http://www.britishpathe.com/video/john-cobb-dies


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrs32Jcdpoo

Hellbent
01-10-2013, 05:57 PM
Great posts Doc...I'm getting an education. I came across Campbell's last run....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=4xemKc2In5Y&feature=endscreen

Dr. X
01-10-2013, 06:03 PM
Doug Ford, formerly the aerodynamicist for the Miss Budweiser team, told me Bluebird although though not an air trap boat was getting aerodynamic lift even at lower speeds. This aerodynamic lift reduced hydrodynamic drag and helped Bluebird go faster.

Dr. X
01-10-2013, 06:07 PM
Came across an RC modeler who is working on a model of Cobb's boat.

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Dr. X
01-10-2013, 06:12 PM
Drawing showing interior details of Cobb's boat. The rudder was in the middle of the boat at the bottom of the forward planing shoe.

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Hellbent
01-10-2013, 06:20 PM
It actually was a step bottom, wasn't it? Looks like there is a considerable step right in front of the rudder at the rear of the forward planing surface.

Bobcat
01-10-2013, 07:12 PM
It was just a few years ago that they found Campbell's Body.


Actually 2000/2001

http://search.yahoo.com/r/_ylt=A0oGdSkoS.9QJzAABrpXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTE0NmVsOWlhBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMQRjb2xv A3NrMQR2dGlkA01TWTAxMF83NA--/SIG=120unekrn/EXP=1357888424/**http%3a//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Campbell

Dr. X
01-10-2013, 07:48 PM
It actually was a step bottom, wasn't it? Looks like there is a considerable step right in front of the rudder at the rear of the forward planing surface.

Correct. Crusader was a step bottom.

Hellbent
01-10-2013, 09:10 PM
Cool song written in memory of Campbell including some great footage from a '88 BBC production starring Anthony Hopkins:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3ftZfB-VNQ

Now I need to find that movie.....I never heard of it. He did a great job in World's Fastest Indian.

Hellbent
01-10-2013, 09:33 PM
A great documentary of the recovery and reconstruction of K7:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgqHhd9QkFQ

Hellbent
01-10-2013, 09:34 PM
Here's the Bluebird Project site: Bluebird Project (http://www.bluebirdproject.com/bbp/)

Sure would be cool to get in touch with Ted Walsh.....

Hellbent
01-10-2013, 09:41 PM
Video of the trials on Coniston of a Bluebird replica boat, the K777...this is NOT the reconstructed K7:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ju52_kDSfSQ

Dr. X
01-10-2013, 11:31 PM
Video of the trials on Coniston of a Bluebird replica boat, the K777...this is NOT the reconstructed K7:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ju52_kDSfSQ

It was in November of 2011 that they tried to run the K777 boat at Lake Coniston. Would like to see whether on smooth water and with enough time to properly balance the boat whether they can at least get it on plane.

Dr. X
01-11-2013, 10:50 AM
When it first hit the water, Donald Campbell's Bluebird wanted to be a submarine. Considerable modifications and trimming were required before it would reliably get on plane.

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Dr. X
01-11-2013, 10:54 AM
In 1946, Sir Malcolm Campbell's pre-war Blue Bird was converted to turbojet. However, handling problems were never solved and Campbell was not successful in beating his own record of 141 mph.

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Dr. X
01-11-2013, 11:05 AM
More photos of Les Staudacher's Miss Stars and Stripes.

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Dr. X
01-11-2013, 11:11 AM
One of the many spray deflector combinations that were tried on Bluebird. This is the 1955 version with the forward spar still in its original location.

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Dr. X
01-11-2013, 11:18 AM
In this photo of Bluebird, a bubble canopy has been installed in place of the original faceted canopy but it still has the sponsons with a hump.

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Dr. X
01-11-2013, 11:28 AM
British Pathe newsreel of Sir Malcolm Campbell's jet hydroplane - MALCOLM CAMPBELL issue title PATHE PICTORIAL HUNTS FOR THRILLS - British Pathé (http://www.britishpathe.com/video/malcolm-campbell-issue-title-pathe-pictorial-hunts/query/Coniston)

Dr. X
01-11-2013, 11:38 AM
Donald Campbell's Bluebird - 1957

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Dr. X
01-11-2013, 11:40 AM
Donald Campbell's Bluebird - February 1955

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Dr. X
01-11-2013, 11:49 AM
Short film clip of 1955 Bluebird (before the forward spar was raised) - 31709424 - Stock Footage from BBC Motion Gallery (http://www.bbcmotiongallery.com/gallery/clip/1B012591_0005.do)

Dr. X
01-11-2013, 11:53 AM
Drawing of the early Bluebird modified to raise the forward spar.

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Dr. X
01-11-2013, 12:20 PM
The British Pursuit project from 1980. This boat ended up as a total clusterfoxtrot and could not even get on plane. - Home - British Pursuit (http://www.britishpursuit.webeden.co.uk/#/british-pursuit-the-jet-age/4546296382)

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpER68pBoHs

Hellbent
01-11-2013, 02:38 PM
In this photo of Bluebird, a bubble canopy has been installed in place of the original faceted canopy but it still has the sponsons with a hump.

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Interesting. When I was looking at the land speed bluebird I found a pic with a bubble canopy next to the car...I figured they must have tried it at one point:

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Dr. X
01-11-2013, 02:40 PM
http://vimeo.com/45004715

Dr. X
01-11-2013, 02:44 PM
Interesting. When I was looking at the land speed bluebird I found a pic with a bubble canopy next to the car...I figured they must have tried it at one point:

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They used the bubble canopy on the 1960 car, the one that crashed at Bonneville. However, in the January issue of Racecar Engineering there's a photo of the car with the aluminum canopy but with with a rounded windscreen instead of the flat panels.

Hellbent
01-11-2013, 02:47 PM
When it first hit the water, Donald Campbell's Bluebird wanted to be a submarine. Considerable modifications and trimming were required before it would reliably get on plane.

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I was surprised at how violent slowing the boat down seemed to be. As soon as you got off the thrust that nose would drop and throw a huge wall of water in front of the boat. On a few of the videos it looked like it was actually submarining a bit but there was so much water in the air you couldn't see it clearly.

Hellbent
01-11-2013, 02:49 PM
I think we're well on our way to our own speed record attempt Doc. Land or sea....I'm not picky ;)

Dr. X
01-11-2013, 03:45 PM
When Rich Hallett built Lee Taylor's Hustler jet hydroplane, the design was an enlarged version of Hallett's Banzai dragboat.

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Dr. X
01-11-2013, 03:49 PM
Below is a photo showing the underside of the hull for the new boat the Warbys are building.

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Dr. X
01-11-2013, 03:53 PM
Below is the stern of the plug used to make the mold for the hull of the Rush, the new boat being built by Colin Johns.

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Hellbent
01-11-2013, 04:23 PM
Below is a photo showing the underside of the hull for the new boat the Warbys are building.

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So...at speed...aside from the sponsons occasionally grazing the surface, that narrow, angled surface at the rear will be the only one in contact with the water?

Dr. X
01-11-2013, 04:26 PM
Photos of the Bluebird car before and after the 1960 crash at Bonneville. The color photo is off the net. The B&W photos are by Ron Christensen.

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Dr. X
01-11-2013, 04:28 PM
So...at speed...aside from the sponsons occasionally grazing the surface, that narrow, angled surface at the rear will be the only one in contact with the water?

That sounds about right.

Hellbent
01-11-2013, 04:34 PM
I was checking out the British project which has the driver in one of the sponsons.....


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Quicksilver Water Speed Record (http://quicksilver-wsr.com/)

Hellbent
01-11-2013, 04:37 PM
I read that Russ Wicks was involved in a project but can't find info on it anywhere.....

Russ Wicks Official Website | Home Page (http://www.russwicks.com/)

Hellbent
01-11-2013, 04:51 PM
Hey Doc....is this you?

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Hellbent
01-11-2013, 05:18 PM
Found the Wicks project......


AMERICAN CHALLENGE WSR RUSS WICKS (http://www.solarnavigator.net/american_challenge_water_speed_record.htm)


Doesn't look like it took off......updates seem to have died around 2006.

Bobcat
01-11-2013, 05:26 PM
What a great thread, Love all of the history.

Dr. X
01-11-2013, 06:15 PM
Hey Doc....is this you?

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Yeah, I designed more than I could afford to build.

Hellbent
01-11-2013, 06:33 PM
Are you still working for Lockheed? I've done some aerospace work over the years but never for Lockheed. McDonnell and Boeing. Nothing very exciting...simple airframe & tooling stuff. If I wouldn't have been busy building hot rods as a teenager, a degree and a Skunk Works job would have suited me just fine. Lol

Nice to have you participating. I see you've got some love for drag racing too. We're going to get along just fine. I reserve the right to annoy you with simpleton questions though! Lol

Hellbent
01-12-2013, 01:17 AM
What a great thread, Love all of the history.

Tell me about it....I'm like a kid in a candy store with this stuff. Super cool. I'd be good for 350+ :)

Ratickle
01-12-2013, 05:04 AM
Tell me about it....I'm like a kid in a candy store with this stuff. Super cool. I'd be good for 350+ :)

Wimpering all the way.......:leaving: :)

Dr. X
01-12-2013, 04:50 PM
Found the Wicks project......


AMERICAN CHALLENGE WSR RUSS WICKS (http://www.solarnavigator.net/american_challenge_water_speed_record.htm)


Doesn't look like it took off......updates seem to have died around 2006.

Too bad. I would've loved to see how that design performed.

Dr. X
01-12-2013, 04:52 PM
Are you still working for Lockheed? I've done some aerospace work over the years but never for Lockheed. McDonnell and Boeing. Nothing very exciting...simple airframe & tooling stuff. If I wouldn't have been busy building hot rods as a teenager, a degree and a Skunk Works job would have suited me just fine. Lol

Nice to have you participating. I see you've got some love for drag racing too. We're going to get along just fine. I reserve the right to annoy you with simpleton questions though! Lol

No longer with Lockheed. Simpleton assumptions get annoying, but I'm fine with simpleton questions.

Dr. X
01-12-2013, 06:19 PM
Four-pointer proposal by Ken Norris for Tony Fahey.

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Dr. X
01-12-2013, 06:25 PM
1966 jet boat by Art Arfons. Arfons could not get the money to run.

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Ratickle
01-13-2013, 09:39 PM
Incredible things that men can come up with. It will be interesting to see how the seperate attempts do.

Dr. X
01-13-2013, 11:44 PM
Adrian Newey’s nomination for the Greatest Motorsport Innovation | Racecar Engineering (http://www.racecar-engineering.com/articles/technology/adrian-neweys-nomination-for-the-greatest-motorsport-innovation/)

rschap1
01-14-2013, 12:44 PM
:)
:)
:)

Dr. X
01-14-2013, 05:28 PM
(Photos by Dan Ellison)

Photos of Dan Ellison designed four-point outrigger five-liter hydro for circuit racing.

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Dr. X
01-14-2013, 09:04 PM
Dan Ellison drag boat hull. Drag boats these days are twin props, so would this count as a four-pointer or a six-pointer?

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Dr. X
01-14-2013, 09:06 PM
This photo gives a good idea of how violently the Lee Taylor rocket boat reacted to waves.

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Dr. X
01-14-2013, 09:09 PM
How the Lee Taylor rocket boat looked in smooth water.

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Dr. X
01-15-2013, 02:39 PM
Lee Taylor's team originally tried to make Hustler, his jet hydroplane, work using only thrust deflectors with no planing shoe, fin, or rudder under the stern. The idea was the elevator (the horizontal deflector) would lift the stern while the rudder (the vertical deflector) would provide steering. The problem was with nothing under the stern to stabilize the boat when turned it would keep on turning unless there was another steering input to counteract the turn. Eventually, a skeg and water rudder were installed.

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Ratickle
01-15-2013, 09:03 PM
Dan Ellison drag boat hull. Drag boats these days are twin props, so would this count as a four-pointer or a six-pointer?

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Well, I guess the "Six Point" would be the correct ruling, kind of. But, I've also never heard a four point actually called a five point........

Almost every one of my rc record riggers were three point........

RaceConcepts
01-16-2013, 10:23 AM
It a four point, it rides on the two front sponsons and two propellers. The rear sponsons are a safety feature and also so it will float properly.

Dr. X
01-16-2013, 05:33 PM
Mario Verga - 124 mph class record, 1953. Great little boat.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vsJEt2gUTA&NR=1

Dr. X
01-16-2013, 05:41 PM
In 1954, Verga's gorgeous Laura 3 boat blew over in a fatal crash after clocking 186.6 mph.

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Bobcat
01-16-2013, 07:55 PM
Laura 3 is a work of art.

Dr. X
01-17-2013, 10:36 AM
Laura 3 was as fast as the big American unlimiteds. Below is a video of Slo-Mo-Shun V blowing over at Seattle.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4uc35RGOuI

Dr. X
01-17-2013, 10:44 AM
Slo-Mo-Shun IV - last prop-driven boat so far to hold the outright water speed record (in 1950 a mile record of 160.3235 mph and 178.497 mph in 1952)

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Dr. X
01-18-2013, 03:41 PM
In the June 1985 issue of Popular Mechanics, Lee Mize discussed plans to go after the record with a rocket drag boat. However, the Popular Mechanics article remains the only thing I've ever seen about the project.

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Dr. X
01-18-2013, 05:11 PM
Hydrofoil boat built back in the thirties for an attempt on the record.

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Hellbent
01-20-2013, 04:52 PM
The stuff these guys were doing that long ago is really amazing. They make us look pretty stupid given the advancements in technology but stagnation of the record.

Dr. X
01-20-2013, 06:21 PM
The stuff these guys were doing that long ago is really amazing. They make us look pretty stupid given the advancements in technology but stagnation of the record.

Lee Taylor's rocket boat, despite its flaws, was the last time anyone has attempted to apply fundamentally new technology to the record.

T2x
01-21-2013, 09:12 AM
The stuff these guys were doing that long ago is really amazing. They make us look pretty stupid given the advancements in technology but stagnation of the record.

yep......

Offshore Ginger
01-21-2013, 10:30 AM
Hydrofoil boat built back in the thirties for an attempt on the record.

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Very cool !

Ratickle
01-22-2013, 05:04 AM
Hydrofoil boat built back in the thirties for an attempt on the record.

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Is there any record of it ever running?

Dr. X
01-22-2013, 11:16 AM
Is there any record of it ever running?

Apparently, it was run but the account I found doesn't provide any details. International Hydrofoil Society (http://www.foils.org/racers.htm)

"Brennan, Walter X., "The Newest Hydrofoil Boat," Yachting, Jan 1936, pp. 55 & 88. Contemporary news and background on the U.S. 3 hydrofoil racing boat (incl. 3 small B&W photos). Excerpts from the article: "The launching and first trials at Detroit of the new Evans hydrofoil boat aroused considerable interest in the subject... The hull, which was designed by P. L. Rhodes with F. W. (Casey) Baldwin as consultant, and built by John L. Hacker, is double planked and is extremely light... The weight of the entire hull is said not to exceed 850 pounds... A Packard Gold Cup motor is used, and aeronautical engineers who are working on the boat estimate a speed of over 150 miles per hour... Using the data they obtain in tests, they plan to build a larger boat with 50 percent more power if the plan appears practicable... More tests are to be made in Detroit waters until it becomes too cold, when the boat will be shipped to Florida for further experiments."

Ratickle
01-22-2013, 07:57 PM
http://i730.photobucket.com/albums/ww310/ptrose/Misc%20and%20Personal%20Boats/hydrofoilUS3.jpg

Dr. X
01-24-2013, 10:22 AM
In his new book on the water speed record, Doug Ford (Lockheed engineer and former aerodynamicist for the Miss Budweiser team) discusses the rocket boat design proposed in 1987 by my late friend Arvil Porter.

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"ARVIL PORTER AND HIS ROCKET BOAT CONCEPT
As was the case for Donald Campbell, Sir Henry Seagrave, and John Cobb, some people interested in the world land speed record have been similarly interested in setting a new world water speed record. Such was a very talented man by the name of Arvil Porter, who was an expert in hydrogen peroxide rocket motors.
Arvil had built several ultralight, rocket-powered dragsters, a rocket powered motor cycle, and most recently was working on the rocket motors for Waldo Stakes’ rocket-powered land speed record vehicle, Sonic Wind. Porter had watched the water speed record attempts by Donald Campbell in Bluebird K7, Lee Taylor in both Hustler and Discovery II, and the current record holder Ken Warby in Spirit of Austrailia. He became convinced that he could design a better water speed record craft. His thinking was that a lightweight, rocket-powered boat, riding on skis would be able to safely break the World Unrestricted Water Speed Record. In 1987, Porter drew a sketch of his idea for a very small, ultralight, rocket-powered water speed record boat. His concept was clearly
unique, and a complete departure from anything that had been done before, although U.S. Discovery II was also powered by hydrogen peroxide rocket. Arvil’s concept for a record attempt boat capable of safely attaining over 300 miles per hour vehicle was a very light craft weighing only about 1,000 pounds, powered by three hydrogen peroxide rocket motors. According to Franklin Ratliff, a longtime friend, Porter specified a 4,000 pound thrust motor in the center of the aft fuselage and two 3,000 pound thrust motors on each side forward near the bow. The hull would ride on three ski-like planing surfaces; one forward and one on each side about two thirds of the way back on the fuselage. Pitch attitude would be controlled by an underwater hydrofoil positioned just behind the front ski, and by a horizontal stabilizer mounted on top of the cowling at the rear. Directional control would be provided by a rudder at the rear.
Arvil Porter’s original sketch of his water speed record boat concept
Scanned copy courtesy of Franklin Ratliff"

Ratickle
01-25-2013, 04:55 AM
When said that pitch attitude is controlled by an underwater hydrofoil, what kind of materials are available that would take that type of punishment?

Dr. X
01-25-2013, 11:13 AM
When said that pitch attitude is controlled by an underwater hydrofoil, what kind of materials are available that would take that type of punishment?

Hopefully, some sort of steel forging would have worked.

Hellbent
01-27-2013, 01:24 AM
This is probably the best thread I've ever been involved in over my 15 years of website ownership/administration/participation. The information here is incredible.

Bobcat
01-27-2013, 09:02 AM
And it's effin cool.:cool:

old377guy
01-27-2013, 11:58 AM
yep

Ratickle
01-27-2013, 10:51 PM
Hopefully, some sort of steel forging would have worked.

We've been involved with some pretty exotic castings, expecially for the oil drilling and military industries, possible I guess. But that is sure a lot of force.....

MOBILEMERCMAN
01-27-2013, 11:39 PM
Did anyone ever pursue his idea?

I suppose that would be much safer than any surface riding craft.

Ratickle
01-28-2013, 10:59 PM
I think I understand the concept, but I cannot for the life of me figure out how anything could handle the stress of moving through the water at those speeds to control the attitude of a boat. But, I guess the stresses on props are also incredible....

HydroWill
04-25-2013, 04:49 AM
75889

HydroWill
04-25-2013, 04:50 AM
still finishing up details

HydroWill
04-25-2013, 04:57 AM
another angle

old377guy
04-25-2013, 11:16 AM
Wicked beautiful

Coolerman
05-27-2013, 02:23 PM
Cool thread. I have seen Daniels photos on facebook, and I admire his ideas and hard work. I will say that it would appear as if there is too much lift up front, as well as the cockpit safety features lacking. I could be wrong though, and for his sake I hope I am. Wishing him all the best!

Tinkerer
05-27-2013, 09:52 PM
I read somewhere that someone trying to beat the record figured they needed 1000 HP extra for the skid fin to be 6 inches longer. Imagine a rudder and hydrofoil.

Ratickle
05-28-2013, 10:05 PM
Some of the stuff from some key guys has been interesting to say the least. This was from Popular Mechanics in 2006.


400 Mph On Water
Russ Wicks is betting his life to set a water speed record--but he's not alone.
By Cliff Gromer Comments

June 13, 2006 12:00 AM

In the winter of 2005, a craft that's currently in the design phase will fire up its engines on a large reservoir in eastern Washington state and try to crack 400 mph -- setting a new water speed record. The boat, the American Challenge, piloted by Russ Wicks, will be unlike any other in history. A product of computer modeling and technology borrowed from the aerospace field, the revolutionary boat will be constructed by a team using the most advanced composites and working under exacting, state-of-the-art conditions. The cost is expected to ring in at about $5 million.

Halfway around the world, at Blowering Dam in Australia, another craft, completed in 1999, is expected to take up the same challenge at about the same time. This boat, the Aussie Spirit, was designed and built by one man in his backyard shed. The cost, in comparison with the American Challenge, is chump change. This effort would seem laughable when stacked up to Wicks's if it were not for one thing. Its designer, builder and driver, Ken Warby, holds the current water speed record at 317.60 mph.

It's not an entirely friendly competition: In fact, Wicks and Warby seem to take a perverse joy in throwing verbal boat anchors at each other. "A Wile E. Coyote going for a ride on a fiberglass board," says Wicks of Warby. "He's pushed the limits of what you can do without the latest technology."

Warby isn't as kind. "Wicks is known in boat racing as the media whore," he says. "He's not going to do anything. The design that he's got will kill him -- if he ever builds it."

Mosquito
12-24-2013, 04:27 PM
Apologies to bump an old thread but I believe Daniel's engine as previously shown was an Avon not an Olympus and is currently on e-bay for sale item no: 140899263170

Ratickle
12-24-2013, 06:00 PM
No apologies needed, welcome and thanks.
You think this was Daniel's engine? Actual engine or twin to what he has?

77254

http://www.ebay.com/itm/140899263170?ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3F_sacat%3D0%26_fr om%3DR40%26_nkw%3D140899263170%26_rdc%3D1

English Electric Lightning P1B RAF Aircraft Rolls Royce Avon Mk209 Jet Engine
Stunning PROTOTYPE Lightning engine. Unique Opportunity

English Electric Lightning P1B

Rolls Royce Avon Mk209 Jet engine

From one of the 3 prototype P1B Lightnings

Another Rare and historical find brought to you by Jet Art Aviation

This really is a very special opportunity for a major museum or decerning private collector.

This engine is stunning and superb, almost immaculate in every way.

The Avon mk209 engine was only used in the P1B prototype Lightning's of which 3 were built.

The P1B aircraft were used for research and development and were built prior to a batch of 20 pre production Lightning F1 aircraft. The P1B aircraft used the Avon Mk209, the preproduction F1 aircraft were upgraded with the Avon Mk210 engines installed.

The history behind this engine is as follows. After use on the P1B aircraft the engine was removed and returned to Rolls Royce for overhaul. Zero timed it was returned to the Air Ministry where it sat at an M.U for a decade or so before being auctioned off as MOD surplus equipment some time in the 1970's. A gentleman bought the engine and stored her for the best part of 30 years, crated, correctly bagged and blanked dessicant packed never to see the light of day. As such the engine has been preserved almost perfectly. The engine changed hands in the last decade and is now part of a private collection in mainland Europe. The engine now on our books as a commission sale. I travelled to inspect and survey the engine in December and took the attached photos.

It would be great if this engine could be returned to the UK.

Date Plate reads as Follows:

Rolls Royce Avon
Mk: 20901B
S/N:8834
AM : A657018

Mosquito
12-24-2013, 06:57 PM
I believe it to be the same engine Ratickle - the background matches the workshop of Daniel and the agent selling it has hinted at it being the same one he sold to Daniel. It is my understanding Daniel may have purchased a re-heated Adour

Ratickle
12-25-2013, 01:48 PM
Now you're going to have to explain about a re-heated Adour!

Pete B
04-20-2015, 11:09 AM
Been a while but a update pic

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m126/pete454/11146192_985214151503778_1330226817655643231_n_zpsvrvipxmv.jpg (http://s103.photobucket.com/user/pete454/media/11146192_985214151503778_1330226817655643231_n_zpsvrvipxmv.jpg.html)

Pete B
04-20-2015, 11:10 AM
http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m126/pete454/11159521_985214231503770_720507051382199982_n_zpsrgm55jgk.jpg (http://s103.photobucket.com/user/pete454/media/11159521_985214231503770_720507051382199982_n_zpsrgm55jgk.jpg.html)

Pete B
04-20-2015, 11:11 AM
http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m126/pete454/11161345_985213304837196_1284884400510974333_n_zpsxq0e5sjc.jpg (http://s103.photobucket.com/user/pete454/media/11161345_985213304837196_1284884400510974333_n_zpsxq0e5sjc.jpg.html)

Ratickle
04-21-2015, 09:53 AM
Sweet!!!!!!:hurray:

Bobcat
04-21-2015, 03:14 PM
:drool5:

Ratickle
04-22-2015, 01:06 PM
Does he have any estimated test date yet?

Serious News
04-23-2015, 12:28 PM
Propeller Speeds

History of the Propeller-Driven Boat Speed Record

Russ Wicks currently holds the World Straightaway Speed Record for propeller-driven boats. Wicks carved his name in the record books by driving the Miss Freei unlimited hydroplane to an average speed of 205.494 miles per hour on June 15, 2000 on Seattle's Lake Washington. Wicks has received the official documents from both the American Power Boat Association (APBA) and the Union International Motonautique (UIM) certifying the record.

The record had not been broken in nearly four decades, back when Roy Duby driving the Miss U.S. set the benchmark of 200.419 miles per hour in 1962, at Lake Guntersville, Alabama.

The last recent attempt ended in catastrophe in 1979 on Lake Washington, as Dean Chenoweth's Miss Budweiser became airborne and was virtually destroyed upon impact. Chenoweth was injured, but survived.

Record Timeline

70.86 mph
The first official recorded record was set by Casey Baldwin driving the Hydrodome IV on September 9, 1919, at Beinn Bhreagh, Bras d'Or Lake in Nova Scotia, Canada.

102.256 mph
Gar Wood, at the wheel of the Miss America IX, was the first to break the 100 mile per hour mark back on March 20, 1931, at Indian Creek near Miami Beach, Florida.

160.323 mph
The famed Slo-Mo-Shun IV was the first to surpass 150 mph. Stanley Sayres, with his riding mechanic, drove to the record on June 26, 1950 on Lake Washington, in Seattle, Washington.

178.497 mph
Sayres again enters the record books with the Slo-Mo-Shun IV, on July 7, 1952. This time, however, Elmer Leninschmidt rides shotgun on Lake Washington's East Channel record run.

187.627 mph
The famed Hawaii Kai III sets a new world record on November 30, 1957 with Jack Regas behind the wheel. The run took place off of Lake Washington's Sand Point.

192.001 mph
Unlimited Hydroplane racing legend Bill Muncey pilots the Miss Thriftway to a new world record on February 16, 1960, on Lake Washington's East Channel.

200.419 mph
Roy Duby was the first to exceed 200 miles per hour in the Miss U.S. on April 17, 1962, on Lake Guttersville, Alabama. Duby would hold the record for 38 years.

205.494 mph
Russ Wicks driving the Miss Freei set a new world record for propeller-driven boats on June 15, 2000. The run was made on Seattle's Lake Washington off of Sand Point in Superior Racing's U-25 unlimited hydroplane.

RaceConcepts
05-11-2015, 07:39 PM
A few pictures of Rick George Racing outboard. This hull has a carbon/kevlar center with a full chromoly frame. They have been testing in florida and I here it's about time to get out the full safety crew. This is for the outboard engine records.

Pete B
12-20-2015, 03:46 PM
http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m126/pete454/2015%20Space%20Coast%20Grand%20Prix/DartagnanSP%20600_zpsuduiglw2.jpg (http://s103.photobucket.com/user/pete454/media/2015%20Space%20Coast%20Grand%20Prix/DartagnanSP%20600_zpsuduiglw2.jpg.html)

Ratickle
12-26-2015, 12:58 AM
Damn!! Looks like Darth Vader would be driving......

Serious News
03-26-2016, 11:50 PM
http://i730.photobucket.com/albums/ww310/ptrose/dartagnan%20sp%20600%202.jpg (http://s730.photobucket.com/user/ptrose/media/dartagnan%20sp%20600%202.jpg.html)

Serious News
03-27-2016, 10:25 PM
http://i730.photobucket.com/albums/ww310/ptrose/dartagnan%20sp%20600%201.jpg (http://s730.photobucket.com/user/ptrose/media/dartagnan%20sp%20600%201.jpg.html)

Serious News
03-29-2016, 12:07 AM
http://i730.photobucket.com/albums/ww310/ptrose/dartagnan%20sp%20600%203.jpg (http://s730.photobucket.com/user/ptrose/media/dartagnan%20sp%20600%203.jpg.html)

Ratickle
03-29-2016, 11:33 PM
Warby's Spirit of Australia II, November

http://i730.photobucket.com/albums/ww310/ptrose/Warby%20Spirit%202%20November%202015.jpg (http://s730.photobucket.com/user/ptrose/media/Warby%20Spirit%202%20November%202015.jpg.html)

Ratickle
03-30-2016, 08:54 PM
http://i730.photobucket.com/albums/ww310/ptrose/Warby%20Spirit%202%20November%202015%202.jpg (http://s730.photobucket.com/user/ptrose/media/Warby%20Spirit%202%20November%202015%202.jpg.html)

Serious News
03-31-2016, 08:05 PM
Time for a well over due project update, Ken, Dave & the Team have been making good progress on Spirit of Australia II, the Trailer has been built over the past year for the boat is now fully finished, the boat has the fuel system completed, the steering system is now completely finished, the Windshield is being formed at the moment,

The Wiring for the engine and boat is now being done, then the boat will be prepared for it's finish paint work, this being one of the final tasks to be completed on SOA II

Ken has made a visit to Blowering Dam, Tumut N.S.W to make arrangement's for Spirit of Australia II to work it's way up to speed via trial runs, the Dam is in perfect order, even though it's at 40% capacity, the length of the dam is still more than suitable for a World Water speed Record run,, The Local community of Tumut have provided a warm welcome for the team, and have arranged a Workshop for the team to set up a base to work from.

http://warbymotorsport.com/Updates.html