1st gelcoat job

[1stoutlaw]

OK---replacing a small block w/ a big block in my 02 25' outlaw----I have to move out wider the exhaust holes in the transom---I have successfully filled in the two holes with marine plywood and fiberglass gel----inside boat side is sanded and painted and looks great----My buddy, an old fiberglass body man did the final finish coat /outside layer of the holes with the fiberglass ------he has never worked on boats or with gelcoat----He wants to finish the last layer with "red lead" and sandable primer and then we will try the gel coat--------but all the lessons I have read online about gelcoat, no-one seems to finish the final fiberglass coat this way before gelcoat !!!!!!!???!!!
Any comments or advice will be appreciated.....!!!!! Mike------Tampa Bay....

[Buoy]

Pictures of your project will help us guide you.

A lot of very knowledgeable people around here.

[Ratickle]

Why is he thinking primer? As far as I know, you can actually mix the gelcoat with beads etc to fill any deep gouges. But, on what I think you are doing, the several coats of Gelcoat you'll be spraying will fix any issues below it I believe.

Put up a couple pics and I'm sure the experts will notice and get to you right away.

[C35]

not his fault he doesnt know what hes doing. itd be yours tho for letting him.

look at any marine place that sells gel n supplies and see if they sell primer. theyll sell you the right products tho.

what youre looking for is called fairing compound

http://www.westsystem.com/ss/assets/HowTo-Publications/Fiberglass-Boat-Repair-and-Maintenance.pdf

http://www.fiberglasssupply.com/Product_Catalog/BooksVideoCat/booksvideocat.html

http://www.westsystem.com/ss/assets/HowTo-Publications/Fiberglass-Boat-Repair-and-Maintenance.pdf

http://www.westsystem.com/ss/use-guides/

[Offshore Ginger]

www.uscomposites.com for the Gel and for the primer i would go with Duratec #714-002 and these guys are the cheapest in the USA as far as the primer goes http://www.expresscomposites.com/duratec1.html and just curious what resin did you use for this project Poly/Epoxy ...or ....and these guys are a little pricey on there Gel but always seem to be dead nuts on as far as color matches go www.spectrumcolor.com and there location is in Saint Augustine Fl , and depending on what type of resin you are using some Filler Fairing Compounds will not adhere very well .

[1stoutlaw]

OK-- What Resin--???---It is a can made by Bondo---named -"Fiberglass Resin Jelly"---!!! ???? I don't see POLY or EPOXY on the can !!! Just resin jelly---It is a greenish thick gel with pices of fiberglass grounded up inside called "spurs" Man I hope he didn't use something that is useless----he is a great bodyman but never on boats !!!! Thanks scared Mike !!!

[1stoutlaw]

Here is a photo-----if that helps----Mike






72927

[Offshore Ginger]

OK-- What Resin--???---It is a can made by Bondo---named -"Fiberglass Resin Jelly"---!!! ???? I don't see POLY or EPOXY on the can !!! Just resin jelly---It is a greenish thick gel with pices of fiberglass grounded up inside called "spurs" Man I hope he didn't use something that is useless----he is a great bodyman but never on boats !!!! Thanks scared Mike !!! Not to be rude but you have already answered you own question and when doing a job like that i personally would want some beef ( fabric ) and have you taken into consideration that there can and might be some shrinkage down the road in the area's of concern

[C35]

ya need to start over. the whole area needs to be ground back and lapped w glass past the cutout. at least 1 in past your opening. you cant bond glass to gel- wont have any strength. so it has to be ground back to get to glass. if ya leave it like this this and gel over it the gel is prob gonna fall off and if not youll at least see the ring crack thru.

buy marine materials not diy stuff.

sorry. better now that when all the works done and its together.

[Offshore Ginger]

First off you do not need to start all over again seeing that you already have the holes filled in with Ply and next the fun begins because you will now need to grind a bevel around the perimeter creating somewhat on a cove from the center out past the existing hole or perimeter.

[1stoutlaw]

OK----I'm getting confused---and don't be afraid to be rude--- OFFSHORE GINGER 1) I don't get it that I answered my own question on the type of resin 2) your also saying fiberglass fabric instead of the marine plywood, which is surrounded by the fiberglass gel....and I never thought of shrinkage......And in your second response PLYWOOD was the wrong material.....We did that as the transom is 2.25 thick and has wood....!!!!!!

AND C35 I ge what you are trying to say------------------both of you Thanks Mike

[Offshore Ginger]

OK----I'm getting confused---and don't be afraid to be rude--- OFFSHORE GINGER 1) I don't get it that I answered my own question on the type of resin 2) your also saying fiberglass fabric instead of the marine plywood, which is surrounded by the fiberglass gel....and I never thought of shrinkage......And in your second response PLYWOOD was the wrong material.....We did that as the transom is 2.25 thick and has wood....!!!!!!

AND C35 I ge what you are trying to say------------------both of you Thanks Mike Mike i never wrote that Marine Ply was the wrong material to use for the job and# 2 , i clearly wrote that you did not have to start all over again seeing that you already had the holes filled in with Marine Ply and your Bondo Putty / tiger hair / Fiberglass resin jelly , which is a material that i would never suggest for this type of repair considering this is my lively hood and i guess the bottom line is ...........are you even thinking of laying any fabric on the repair using a resin that is in a liquid form giving the repair it self some more beef ( structural integrity ) other then whats there at the moment.

[1stoutlaw]

Offshore Ginger-----NO-- I didn't think about laying fabric on/over the repair-----I /we thought this was solid and ready to go---I'm learning-----My original plan was to fill in the holes----cut the new holes after measuring /dry fitting the new motor and new exhaust---and my neighbor is a stainless steel fabricator/welder---he was going to cut me a piece of stainless plate which would cover the old/fixed hole including the tail pipes and extend over the edge of the new holes..----I'm at 24 inch center--to--center now-- --I believe , w/out putting in the motor for a dry run yet, I have to be about 28" center to center------So the plates would cover from the old hole thru the tailpipes and over the new hole---all centered out---they use to do this in the old race days when they would buy a small block boat and install a muther motor..haha.. BUT never playing with gelcoat, and the holes looking sooo good hahah I thought we would try to gelcoat them over and forget the stainless steel covers.....SOOOoo I guess I might be better off going w/ the plates!!!! Thanks Mike- Tampa Bay !!

[Ratickle]

You can trust Artie, he knows what he is doing, believe me.

DO you have any glass overlapping on the inside?

Artie, If he ground the plug, and then beveled down the edge of the existing gel to the recessed plug (maybe 1/8th inch?), could he make it work? A couple layers of glass and mesh, then spray on the several coats of gel and sand it down to the proper level? How far out into the existing gel would he have to go?

What C35 and Offshore Ginger are saying, you have a plug in a hole and they will flex and shrink differently, so you will end up with a crack no matter what you try after a period of time.

It is not too late to fix that though.

If you choose not to, make sure you overlap glass on the inside. You do not want hairline cracks to let water get to the rest of the transom. Also seal under the new larger plates on the outside to keep water from entering the same way. But not 5200 in my opinion.....

[1stoutlaw]

OK----I trust Artie---I know he is in the business---I'm not---I'm just a knucle head----NO I don't have any fiberglass on the inside--just the Fiberglass gel...which was pushed thru the front onto a back board----from the marine plywood pushing from the front---I took the backboard off, sanded the fiberglass jelly and painted it white to match the bilge interior---Then filled the front end with the rest of the fiberglass gel------I'm learning---------Yes--I guess now I have to go the plates--Yes I will seal them w/ 4200-----If I do that,,,,can I leave the inside the way it is--cause hopefully with the sealed plates NO water will get in ?????? Thanks so much for all you guys comments !!! Mike!!!

[1stoutlaw]

I was hoping, as I thought the fixed holes were looking good, I might try to put a layer of gelcoat on same, my 1st try, and skip the plates----BUT I guess after you saw the photo's of the fixed holes, they are not looking so good----Sorry I wasted your time---!!!!!! I will put the plates on and be happy with that !!! Thanks--- Knucle Head !!!! Tampa Bay !!!!

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

I was hoping, as I thought the fixed holes were looking good, I might try to put a layer of gelcoat on same, my 1st try, and skip the plates----BUT I guess after you saw the photo's of the fixed holes, they are not looking so good----Sorry I wasted your time---!!!!!! I will put the plates on and be happy with that !!! Thanks--- Knucle Head !!!! Tampa Bay !!!!

Filling the hole is just part of the job. If you want to make it look like it was never there is the hard part. If you add color, ie gelcoat to what you have you will be skipping the important steps. If your next step is to grind out just past the original outside diameter enough to add some glass to connect he different materials and make a new skin to apply the gelcoat to you will be on your way to a better job

[1stoutlaw]

Thanks Mobilemercman----Sorry I wasted everyone's time--I'm just trying to learn and I know enough about engines and boats and oil changes and fixing repairs-just to get in trouble----My boat has never been in a shop, til now, after 10 years I blew the motor,,,so I'm trying to get it ready for the new motor---I understand now why alot of people are not asking questions on this site---Knuckle Head--Tampa Bay !!

[Ratickle]

You didn't waste anyone's time. And knucklehead's are only those who don't ask when something doesn't quite make sense. Or those who ask and don't use the information to take the best possible option at that time.

You found out that it wouldn't work the original way, and you have a couple choices of which way to go now. Perfect.

If you decide to fix the hull, either now or later, we'll be glad to help in any way we can. If you decide to go with the larger flanges on the exhaust, just watch the inside for possible cracking. You'd be surprised how easily water gets into places you'd think were inpossible. There are so many hulls out there with bad wood in them that proves it. I'm not entirely sure I wouldn't put a thin flange on the inside and bolt through both flanges to cover the repair inside and out. With some 4200 or similar, you should be completely safe at that point.

[Offshore Ginger]

Paul i just sent you a pm.

[Ratickle]

Just got it. Thanks