2002 46 prop slip made 742 hp 750 tq

[ryan9154]

Anyone out there have a problem with prop slip got a 2002 46 ec we made 742 hp and 750 tq having a pain in the $$$ with props 1.5 xr's for now.Can't get the slip below 19% running around 82 with 28 bravo 1 we need to run 5600 rpm tried 30's slip got worst and 2 mph slower tried 28 p5x hydros ran 80 slip the same as 28's any input would be great. Thanks Ryan

[600sci]

Anyone out there have a problem with prop slip got a 2002 46 ec we made 742 hp and 750 tq having a pain in the $$$ with props 1.5 xr's for now.Can't get the slip below 19% running around 82 with 28 bravo 1 we need to run 5600 rpm tried 30's slip got worst and 2 mph slower tried 28 p5x hydros ran 80 slip the same as 28's any input would be great. Thanks Ryan

try some 1/2 inch spacers !

[Coolerman]

Hey Ryan, from what I undertsand, those slip numbers are pretty typical of the 460. If you want, you could try playing around with spacers, but the drives are already mounted pretty low. Have any of these props been worked on? Have you conisdered 6 blades? I know the 6 blades are tougher on drives, but I think they would really benefit the 460 in all aspects.

[ryan9154]

Found a guy in ca called cutting edge props going to send me some 15.5/8 to try with a heavy cup on the whole blade and go from there but I'll see if I can get some 6 blades all props are stock at 15.1/4 I'll keep everyone posted thanks

[Ratickle]

This is the place to be for BT info.....


You may want to PM Steve David, he did a lot of the testing and setup on the 2002 EC for the factory.

He will want your X dimension, as will everyone else on here who will help. Your speed is pretty good though, is there any chance you have some kind of hull protusion in front of the drives?

I can't help much as I run with 3A's on mine....

[John P]

Anyone out there have a problem with prop slip got a 2002 46 ec we made 742 hp and 750 tq having a pain in the $$$ with props 1.5 xr's for now.Can't get the slip below 19% running around 82 with 28 bravo 1 we need to run 5600 rpm tried 30's slip got worst and 2 mph slower tried 28 p5x hydros ran 80 slip the same as 28's any input would be great. Thanks Ryan

What rpm was it running with the 28p props?

[offshoreexcursion]

Your boat should easily run 87-90 if someone could prop it! Hopefully the cutting edge props do the trick since Bblades has been dropping the ball lately. Much easier to just play guessing games on test props and still make money.

Awesome dyno numbers though! Good luck Ryan I am looking forward to my ride this summer!

[ryan9154]

What rpm was it running with the 28p props?

Running around 5700

[John P]

Running around 5700
What drives standard or shorties, were you trimmed way out to get that rpm? GPS speedo? Salt of fresh water?

[offshoreexcursion]

From talking to Ryan on the phone and boating with him last season.

Standard length, Normal trim (similiar to what the boat needed last year before mods), Brand new GPS speedo, Fresh water.

BTW Ryan can drive! He is one of the best I have ridden with. Plus he can dock the black thunder first try in a 47' wall slip without touching the boat in front, behind, or the wall next to him, with lake huron wind blowing! Plus I have ridden in his Checkmate at 100mph wondering how he makes it look so easy!

[John P]

I was not saying anything about his driving, just trying to get some questions answered to help him out. offshore: Don't always think questions are trying to be negative the more info the easier it is to help!

[endeavor1]

I was not saying anything about his driving, just trying to get some questions answered to help him out. offshore: Don't always think questions are trying to be negative the more info the easier it is to help!

d!ck............:bump:

[endeavor1]

FYI, my 2002 46 with 700s would run 82. 5200-5400. It ran a 1.3 Bmax on standard lower swinging a 25 5 blade hydro. But then again, it had an ugly paint job.... :willy_nilly:

Maybe you just need B-Max's :sifone:,

[endeavor1]

Also, i recieved an email from the current owner of my 02 46 a few weeks ago and that guy is running the snot out of it everywhere in the southeast. Seems to be running well so John, theres another good story for your drives.

[ryan9154]

What drives standard or shorties, were you trimmed way out to get that rpm? GPS speedo? Salt of fresh water?

offshoreexcursion is correct standard drives standard trim like normal gps speedo fresh water

[ryan9154]

FYI, my 2002 46 with 700s would run 82. 5200-5400. It ran a 1.3 Bmax on standard lower swinging a 25 5 blade hydro. But then again, it had an ugly paint job.... :willy_nilly:

Maybe you just need B-Max's :sifone:,

chris (endeavor1) thanks for that info and good to hear the old boat is running good

[offshoreexcursion]

I was not saying anything about his driving, just trying to get some questions answered to help him out. offshore: Don't always think questions are trying to be negative the more info the easier it is to help!

John, I was not assuming any negative just doing exactly what you said, the more info people have the better they can help!

I think you are just mad cause I don't like your magic oil or your lower unit that uses bravo gears! I still talk good about your upper and your customer service!!

[offshoreexcursion]

FYI, my 2002 46 with 700s would run 82. 5200-5400. It ran a 1.3 Bmax on standard lower swinging a 25 5 blade hydro. But then again, it had an ugly paint job.... :willy_nilly:

Maybe you just need B-Max's :sifone:,

Lol! The paint was not that bad! But I get the inside joke!!!!

[John P]

John, I was not assuming any negative just doing exactly what you said, the more info people have the better they can help!

I think you are just mad cause I don't like your magic oil or your lower unit that uses bravo gears! I still talk good about your upper and your customer service!!

How can I be mad at you I don't even know you, and it's no sweat off my back if you don't want to save $ on gear sets.

[endeavor1]

I feel the love really coming out in this thread. :cuss: :sifone:

Ryan, i hope you get your slip down but i heard the same thing Saxman said about high slip numbers were usual for the 46's. One thing i do know is that my 46 would out turn any of my 43's and my 01 43 ran much better on -2 shorties than it did on standards. Not sure exaclty why but just thought i would share that with you. Good luck with your project and keep us in the loop.

Kevin, lol, you make me laugh. You and John are too funny. I understand where you are coming from somewhat on the drives/oil but i can promise you, it works for me and that cool. John has put a bunch of work into the BMAX's including the lowers. The gears may be mercury standard but he does cryo them and the bottoms are built to a much higher standard. I ve been fortunate enough to spend some time up there recently and really get to see what it is he does and the time he takes to put this drive together. Not trying to change your opinion, just sharing. Now the oil, i like it and its working great for me. Time will tell but it makes me feel better about my drives in that heavy SOB. :USA:

John, thanks again for all that you have done for me and I will see you this weekend.

Off my soap box now...... :seeya:

p.s..... Sax, see attatched picture :bump:

[John P]

Chris what are you and Jason doing in that pic?

[Coolerman]

speaking of soapbox......

[offshoreexcursion]

How can I be mad at you I don't even know you, and it's no sweat off my back if you don't want to save $ on gear sets.

I am just joking around just like everyone else does on this black thunder section. Yes I have my opinions but I try to say them in a fun way. I guess I just don't fit in yet with this "click". This group uses SOS as their own FACEBOOK! Cute! LOL. Just Joking around!!

Saving money will not help if I am broke down in the middle of lake michigan while crossing over to wisconsin. I want reliability, durability, and TIME to enjoy the short, but beautiful Michigan summer. I put over 120 hours on a summer and for ME wrenching on drives 2 or 3 times a summer is a waste. Not once has anyone on OSO or SOS proven with only oil and proper set up a bravo gear will last 120 hours + in a twin engine 830+hp boat.

Also my last pair of broken drives were top of the line, complete Imco SC. fluids changed every 18-20 hours, broke every 30-40! Drove it like I was on egg shells (LAME, Boring, might as well drive a bayliner if you can't enjoy the power!) What bravo based drive is truely better then the imco SC. Some might be equal but a night and day difference? I don't think so....

[ryan9154]

has anyone tried shorties on a 46 and did you record slip numbers thanks guys for the info

[endeavor1]

has anyone tried shorties on a 46 and did you record slip numbers thanks guys for the info

John has trip shorties on his. Different bottom and not sure if he's gonna run his 5 blades or not.

[endeavor1]

I am just joking around just like everyone else does on this black thunder section. Yes I have my opinions but I try to say them in a fun way. I guess I just don't fit in yet with this "click". This group uses SOS as their own FACEBOOK! Cute! LOL. Just Joking around!!

Saving money will not help if I am broke down in the middle of lake michigan while crossing over to wisconsin. I want reliability, durability, and TIME to enjoy the short, but beautiful Michigan summer. I put over 120 hours on a summer and for ME wrenching on drives 2 or 3 times a summer is a waste. Not once has anyone on OSO or SOS proven with only oil and proper set up a bravo gear will last 120 hours + in a twin engine 830+hp boat.

Also my last pair of broken drives were top of the line, complete Imco SC. fluids changed every 18-20 hours, broke every 30-40! Drove it like I was on egg shells (LAME, Boring, might as well drive a bayliner if you can't enjoy the power!) What bravo based drive is truely better then the imco SC. Some might be equal but a night and day difference? I don't think so....

Oh your in the click....:26: you just have to post funny pics from time to time that are politicly incorrect. LOL. :_boobies:

[John P]

I am just joking around just like everyone else does on this black thunder section. Yes I have my opinions but I try to say them in a fun way. I guess I just don't fit in yet with this "click". This group uses SOS as their own FACEBOOK! Cute! LOL. Just Joking around!!

Saving money will not help if I am broke down in the middle of lake michigan while crossing over to wisconsin. I want reliability, durability, and TIME to enjoy the short, but beautiful Michigan summer. I put over 120 hours on a summer and for ME wrenching on drives 2 or 3 times a summer is a waste. Not once has anyone on OSO or SOS proven with only oil and proper set up a bravo gear will last 120 hours + in a twin engine 830+hp boat.

Also my last pair of broken drives were top of the line, complete Imco SC. fluids changed every 18-20 hours, broke every 30-40! Drove it like I was on egg shells (LAME, Boring, might as well drive a bayliner if you can't enjoy the power!) What bravo based drive is truely better then the imco SC. Some might be equal but a night and day difference? I don't think so....

What are you breaking? I feel your pain in breaking drives been there for 2 years before I started to really look at why they broke. Now its been 2 years without a break on what has to be one of the heaviest boats on the market with 850's. I pretty sure I can make you a drive to last on your 33 Baja. Are you running 4 or 5 blades?

[John P]

And one more thing if this was face book I could lock out Endeavor and not have to listen or look at the crap he posts! Hes always says he has a smoke'n girl friend but no pics and a BT but not sure of that either.

[endeavor1]

And one more thing if this was extremetube.com, i could look at a bunch more fetish porn and my day would be so much better. I really like the whips and chain stuff they do these days. Almost reminds me of B-Max outdrives. .

:reddevil: You just want me to post pics of her and chicklets. Hell, when my BT was parked by NoComp last week, it made NC look better.. :dupe:

[John P]

has anyone tried shorties on a 46 and did you record slip numbers thanks guys for the info

From the props I tried the 26 5px gives me the lower slip around 10% and a 30p B1 jumps my slip up to 19% and a 32p B1 ups it to 27% all the props are close in speed within 3-4 mph. The 32p had a great cruise speed but at top end it was not very efficient. the 26p and the 30 are very close in all rpm ranges. Is weekend will be first trip out the the shorties so I will let you know how it goes. I think you kind of head a wall with the BT with the whole weight and speed time just to much boat. Saxman found that out after changing power in there not much difference adding a couple hundred horse.

By the way the 30p and 32p props were stock.

[John P]

:reddevil: You just want me to post pics of her and chicklets. Hell, when my BT was parked by NoComp last week, it made NC look better.. :dupe:

:beatdeadhorse5: :iagree:

[John P]

John has trip shorties on his. Different bottom and not sure if he's gonna run his 5 blades or not.

Last time out we hit a sand bar and tore her bottom up a little.

69995

[600sci]

Last time out we hit a sand bar and tore her bottom up a little.

69995

a tripple shorty wont do this NO good......:sifone:

NICE PIC !

[offshoreexcursion]

How many hours in two years though?

I have worn out gears, broke gears, and broke a vertical shaft.

4 Blade but underpropped

Looking for surface drive, rooster tail, reliability, 5 blades, more speed, etc! Arneson or new imco scx surface, just waiting on more info.

Or sell and buy Shane's yellow 07 Black Thunder!

[offshoreexcursion]

And one more thing if this was face book I could lock out Endeavor and not have to listen or look at the crap he posts! Hes always says he has a smoke'n girl friend but no pics and a BT but not sure of that either.

Funny! I have not seen proof of this girl either. We prob can assume his girl looks about as good as the paint job on his 43!!!

[Coolerman]

Saxman found that out after changing power in there not much difference adding a couple hundred horse.



Alot of it is in the props and setup. The 460 with the updated bottom hit 90mph with merc 700's (ran 89 in powerboat) and drove like a go-cart and rode like a caddy, but the 850 boat ran a best of 95 and had a slight propoise here and there (still a great running boat).

It's also questionable on the headers we run in our boat (2" primarys). Ours ran about 95mph with 750's and 110 with 950's. When we added the PSI's, we never really played with props until now. With the new 6 blade herings, at 116mph every gps update was about 2mph. We have another 150hp per side since we tested those fall as well! :reddevil:
Also, I know John hates more blades (and for good reason), but hering has a new 7 blade prop. You could try that with a 2" shorty . That would really help get that BT some transom lift and help it from plowing through the water. Just a thought.... You'd definately want some drive upgrades if you are going to go that route. You should give Ben Robertson a call at Hering, 360-659-4315.

[Coolerman]

Last time out we hit a sand bar and tore her bottom up a little.

69995

yike......

[endeavor1]

Funny! I have not seen proof of this girl either. We prob can assume his girl looks about as good as the paint job on his 43!!!

:biggrinjester: Theres proof coming... (John im sure will take pics this weekend) :boobflash: I just put a ring on her hand so I know shes a fine lady. Now i just got to get her talked into a 36 Gladiator. She likes the 43 Nortechs and I keep telling her those are just a wee bit out of my price range unless i finance it till im dead... :26:

[endeavor1]

yike......

:iagree:

[John P]

Or sell and buy Shane's yellow 07 Black Thunder![/QUOTE]

You think you have drive problems now ! You are going to drop 350K and then more to put Arneson's on and you won't spend a few bucks for someone to set up your drive you have now?
All the stuff you broke in your drive there are fix's for.

[ryan9154]

Guys thanks for all the info I'll keep everyone informed on the bigger diameter props 15.5/8 in about two weeks thanks again if I hit a wall guess its getting surface drives Ryan

[offshoreexcursion]

Guys thanks for all the info I'll keep everyone informed on the bigger diameter props 15.5/8 in about two weeks thanks again if I hit a wall guess its getting surface drives Ryan

I like the way you think...surface drives! Then you could run those sweet 7 blades Coolerman got us all wet thinkin about!

[offshoreexcursion]

Or sell and buy Shane's yellow 07 Black Thunder!

You think you have drive problems now ! You are going to drop 350K and then more to put Arneson's on and you won't spend a few bucks for someone to set up your drive you have now?
All the stuff you broke in your drive there are fix's for.[/QUOTE]

Yeah thats why I have not bought his boat, I pledged to never buy a bravo boat again! But I am still in love with that boat.

There are no fix's for my problem. I don't think you read what "I" want out of a drive. RELIABLE to cross lake michigan, FASTER, STRONGER, ROOSTER TAIL, for 500+ hours of only changing fluids. I have seen it done in person on the scx ran hard on a 36 apache twin 800hp. He hole shots his boat all the time to show off. He lost 2 mph but gained it back going to shortys. BUT again they do not give me a rooster tail, or increase my speed.

I will never own a bravo drive again, even if NEO oil works after proven testing. My SC's were properly set up, stongest case out, tower, shafts, bearings, cryo'd gears etc. A bravo based drive(especially with the newer junk forged gears merc sells) will never hold up to what "I" want. The only thing you could possible do to my SC drives are put NEO oil in them. Again not enough "Peace of mind" to run far offshore on lake Michigan.

John, I do appreciate your enthusiam in your products, and knowledge of building them. They are just not for me. For the weekend warrior who sits at the sand bar, yeah. I drive my boat 100 miles round trip just to get lunch in a different city along lake michigan, or across it. Ryan boats like I do also. We like to cruise to other destinatinos along the lake, and it gets rough, I have been in 12-15' waves on my jet ski's (measured by the NOAA weather bouy). Ryan ran his black thunder in 6-8 last fall! If a storm comes up and we are down a drive the boat will be at the bottom of the lake before we have time to get our vest on! Thats why I always carry a orange noodle! LOL (a guy was actually saved when his boat sank cause he had a orange noodle)

[Coolerman]

I like the way you think...surface drives! Then you could run those sweet 7 blades Coolerman got us all wet thinkin about!

Hering only makes the 7 blades for bravo applications. I think they would be worth a try.

[endeavor1]

This thread has made two thoughts come to mind.

[Nevr2nd]

This thread has made two thoughts come to mind.

LOL, Damn you Scuba Steve!!

Best of luck with the Bravos, Ryan.

[Ratickle]

And one more thing if this was face book I could lock out Endeavor and not have to listen or look at the crap he posts! Hes always says he has a smoke'n girl friend but no pics and a BT but not sure of that either.

I can do that......:D:D

[offshoreexcursion]

I can do that......:D:D

:hurray:

[endeavor1]

I cant do that. The BT forum would die if we didnt have all the BS that he throws in here to keep it alive......:D:D

Thanks Paul :rofl:

[endeavor1]

:hurray:

:lurk5: :beatdeadhorse5: :boxing_smiley: :huh: :biggrinjester:

[Ratickle]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratickle

I cant do that. The BT forum would die if we didnt have all the BS that he throws in here to keep it alive......



Thanks Paul :rofl:

:sifone::sifone::sifone:

Nice Work......

[endeavor1]

:sifone::sifone::sifone:

Nice Work......

I try... :biggrinjester: have a good weekend, Im headed to the lake with the BT to meet up with John and do some drinking... uh ;) i mean boating. :hurray:

[John P]

Back to prop slip.

Putting -2's on made the BT handle 100% better.
Here are the Numbers I got after playing for 2 days.

30P B1's 5800 rpm WOT speed 92 mph prop slip 27%
30P B1's 3500 rpm speed 50 mph prop slip 34%
26P 5PX's 5200 rpm WOT speed 92 mph prop slip 6.5%
26P 5PX's 3500 rpm speed 51 mph prop slip 23%

With the 26p it was working the 850's for sure but she was solid on the water.
The only problem I had was the center drive was to high and not feeding enough water to the port in the Bmax to make the cooling system for the drive work so I will put a standard back on in the center and that will fix that.
All speeds were from my Lowrance digital display and my Livorsi speedo also read the same.

[ryan9154]

Tried the 28 b1 this weekend again ran 83 on Lowrance gps and hand held garmin gps the new Livorsi gps speedo is off by 2 mph it's the upgraded antenna with no battries i think where it's mounted it's a little slower due to the amount of glass it has to go throught so that makes me a little happier still to high on rpm props should be here by end of the week I'll give update after that thanks Ryan

[endeavor1]

Ryan, I really believe that the high slip numbers are going to be the norm for that hull. I know that my 46 (same hull) with 4 blades was all over the water but with the 5 blades it really handled well. John has had the same results with his 5 blades and -2's. My 01 43 responded extremely well to the -2's it had on it. Maybe that would be a route to consider. When the old bravo shop owner "Dean" talked me into standards, it turned out to be the worst mistake I made. The early 46's/late 43's respond very well to the higher X. Just some insight

[Coolerman]

I agree with Endeavor1 on the shorties and 5 blades

[ryan9154]

The boat with 5 blades did handle well but was to nose heavy too much boat in water the running pics showed that the steps were'nt helping at all no ventalition 3/4 of the boat was in the water the 4 blades showed that the water break was right at the 2 step boat was a little loose but not bad I like a drivers boat. The checkmate is back in town went down to shane's last week hung out and brought it back to mi for a guy man it feels good to drive at 100 plus again had to show the new owner the ropes lol thanks again everyone

[endeavor1]

shorties and 5 blades and it should be where it needs to be. My 46 on standards required some extra trim (hydraulic as in out drives.... saxman would twist it any other way said) but would carry the nose once up and running. About 6 on the indicators if i remember right.

The pic shows exactly what I ran and an approximate "X". Hope this helps you out.

[Coolerman]

do you always run with that much tab? jeese.......

[endeavor1]

do you always run with that much tab? jeese.......

not always, usually just some x-tra trim.....:cheers2: Penolpe Cruz/sister

[Coolerman]

lmao

[John P]

I put a standard length lower back on the center drive do to not getting enough water to cool the drive and the boat handled like it did with 3 standard lowers so for now I rigged up a low water pick up to feed the drives cooling system and the shortie is back on. I think I will look for extension boxes and install them over the winter.

[Ratickle]

I put a standard length lower back on the center drive do to not getting enough water to cool the drive and the boat handled like it did with 3 standard lowers so for now I rigged up a low water pick up to feed the drives cooling system and the shortie is back on. I think I will look for extension boxes and install them over the winter.

The last time I talked to Bob, he had a complete set of extension boxes in the shop they had done some testing with. That was late last summer though.

[offshoreexcursion]

Talked to Ryan on the phone and he is testing New Cutting edge props as we speak. I will be riding in his boat for the Boyne Thunder poker run later this week! Looking forward to it!

[endeavor1]

I know this is off subject but your alls "Jobbie Nooner" just sounds funny to say. I understand its principals but damn..... lmao.....

back to the thread

[offshoreexcursion]

Just ran Boyne Thunder is was amazing! Ryans boat ran good and the new props throw alot of water behind the boat. Fully loaded with fuel and gear for the 8 days ryan and Kim spent on it, and the 3 days Kristy and I spent on the couches, boat hits 84 every time with ease getting on plane, great midrange, etc. Now that he has his numbers he will send them back to Cutting Edge to get the final lab finishing done for no charge. I will post pics if someone tells me how!

[BDARCHER]

Bblades worked my 26 B1s two years ago. The BT planes quicker and cruisers better, but the top end is the same as before. Ashamed to say.:sifone:

[endeavor1]

saw the pics of that run. Looked fun.

[offshoreexcursion]

Yeah it was a great time, and the black thunder shinned in the big waters of lake Michigan.

[Monopoly 46]

Just ran Boyne Thunder is was amazing! Ryans boat ran good and the new props throw alot of water behind the boat. Fully loaded with fuel and gear for the 8 days ryan and Kim spent on it, and the 3 days Kristy and I spent on the couches, boat hits 84 every time with ease getting on plane, great midrange, etc. Now that he has his numbers he will send them back to Cutting Edge to get the final lab finishing done for no charge. I will post pics if someone tells me how!

any pics of his boat?