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NWC
10-24-2010, 05:19 PM
Im looking at a 1980 38' Scarab. It has a staggared setup with 454 BBC, Velvet trans and TRS drives. Boat looks solid but needs some work. What do I need to look for and what should I be aware of when looking at this boat? Any help is appreciated.

old377guy
10-24-2010, 07:33 PM
Check for hook in hull. Get a moisture meter or a surveyor who has on and check out everything. If possible remove floorboards from center of cockpit and check out tank and surrounding structures. Look for water damage around portholes, docking lights, and hatches (be nice to switch them around to open the other direction -factory did this in 1983), check for standing water in anchor locker and compartment(s) below v-berth. check for structural integrity in bulkhead between cabin and cockpit especially where windshield attaches through to deck.(can leak through to bulkhead). It would be great to check to see if water runs all the way through from forward compartment to bilge. (if not water can sit in unaccessible area below cabin sole). Don't expect the bolster to be in very good shape internally; if it is, that's an overall plus. It's a given that it will need new shifter/throttle/indicator cables. To the degree possible check condition of gimbal pivots pins, transom assembly, leaks from drives and propeller movement fore and aft and side to side. See if the hydraulics work for drives and K planes. Tail pipes and manifolds need a looking over unless it has the original log manifolds which you would probably replace anyway. Remove port driveshaft cover and check condition of the shaft and bearings and inner transom assembly. The tiller steering is probably loose and there are options for factory type repair unless you will go to external hydraulic steering (for a boats capable of 70+ mph). Good luck, I've had two 38's including a 1980 w/staggereds so feel free to PM me. Jeff

Bobcat
10-24-2010, 07:51 PM
As Jeff mentioned, get a surveyor (powerboat surveyor) A cool boat can turn into a nightmare in a week !

Bobcat
10-24-2010, 07:52 PM
And Welcome to SOS !:seeya:

NWC
10-30-2010, 11:33 AM
Thanks to both of you. This will be my first big boat and know that it will be a project. Engines supposedly rebuilt two years ago with low hours and drives rebuilt about four years ago. Bulkhead between fuel tank and engine compartment appears cracked but I believe I have enough know how to replace it correctly. On the staggard setup the port engine appears to have little clearance with the rear seatback. in fact there is a square portion of the seatback cut out in front of the engine. Is this factory or something an owner has done.

Again thanks for the replys information. Im going to try to get a second look tomorrow.

Ned

JFM
10-30-2010, 06:14 PM
Have you ever had a boat? I only ask cause I see you wrote looking for my first. That is a big boat to learn on if so. If you look at it again and think you are serious about it get a survey on it. Good luck and get some pics!

old377guy
10-30-2010, 10:06 PM
Thanks to both of you. This will be my first big boat and know that it will be a project. Engines supposedly rebuilt two years ago with low hours and drives rebuilt about four years ago. Bulkhead between fuel tank and engine compartment appears cracked but I believe I have enough know how to replace it correctly. On the staggard setup the port engine appears to have little clearance with the rear seatback. in fact there is a square portion of the seatback cut out in front of the engine. Is this factory or something an owner has done.

Again thanks for the replys information. Im going to try to get a second look tomorrow.

Ned

Every one that I've seen including mine had that cutout

NWC
10-30-2010, 10:08 PM
Yes. All my experience is in 16 to 18 foot Checkmates and mid 20 foot fishing/dive boats. Sorry about the confusion. Always wanted an offshore go fast and now the time is right. If I get to look at it tomorrow, I plan on taking some pics to share.

Thanks

NWC
10-30-2010, 10:11 PM
Thanks old377guy. I appreciate your knowledge these boats.

Ned

Ratickle
10-31-2010, 11:37 AM
Any questions or help you want, we'll do our best to help.

And welcome, a staggered setup is a better handling offshore boat.

Make sure you get the VIN hull number for the guys to check. I believe they can tell you what the layup is from that.

old377guy
10-31-2010, 03:09 PM
Whatever i might know, Paul knows in spades.

Ratickle
10-31-2010, 05:05 PM
Whatever i might know, Paul knows in spades.

Oh no, I consider myself the village idiot compared to a lot of you guys.....:biggrinjester:

old377guy
10-31-2010, 06:21 PM
:sifone:That put's me mighty low on the totem pole

NWC
11-03-2010, 09:16 PM
I got another look at the boat Sunday. Several panels on the cabin bulkheads have to be replaced due to moisture. Hatches and some of the portholes appear to be leaking. Couldnt get behind the headliner I do know the wood under the dash needs to be replaced. Most likely needs to be rewired too. Not all of the gages are working and it needs drive and tab indicators installed. Drives have what I believe is normal play when I lifted and moved them side to side and the props have normal lash when I rotated them back and forth. The engines souunt good, Not noises that shouldnt be there and they appear to be mounted solid. As for the vin. I could see where it should be but looks like its been glassed over. I dont know. The owner says he has a clear title and it does have a current SC sticker. Believe my next move might be to have a survey done.

old377guy
11-04-2010, 12:06 AM
Be sure to check with your state's licensing/titleing agency to get informed about an ambiguous hull id number; not so much for this transaction, but for future ones. The look of the boat is about what I'd expect to see for the vintage. I'm assuming the price is somewhere between 14-18k. I also assume that the primary mechanicals (transmissions, drives and motors are able to be redone reasonably not replaced. The great thing about this set up is that for the considerable elbow grease it WILL take to make it look good again, you will have a lot of boat for the money. The boat is already at the bottom of the depreciation schedule. If you take leave of your sanity and put 40k into this boat, DO NOT make the silly but common mistake that the boat becomes worth 50-60k. Good luck and have fun with the old girl. - Jeff

Cigboat#1
11-04-2010, 02:17 PM
Walk away from the boat !! At a very fast clip... You can find a lot in better shape than what your showing us now. You will flush a lot of money down the toilet quick ! Just my observation from the pictures you posted.


Jim

JFM
11-04-2010, 03:58 PM
Walk away from the boat !! At a very fast clip... You can find a lot in better shape than what your showing us now. You will flush a lot of money down the toilet quick ! Just my observation from the pictures you posted.


Jim

Agreed, it looks like you could dump some money in it.

Donskihp
11-04-2010, 05:03 PM
By the looks of that engine compartment, its gonna take a lot of work and some serious change to get it right. Like mentioned above, its gonna take more money than the final prodject will be worth. Fix that boat only for the love of it!

rschap1
11-05-2010, 11:06 AM
Couple other older Wellcrafts on Ebay that have had some fixin-redoing already....

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200536900423&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220691612366&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT

Cigboat#1
11-06-2010, 12:25 AM
Now thats what Im talking about----- Nice older boats that you can start with that does not look like Rommel's Africa Corps took a dump in and left it out to dry.....

Jim

NWC
11-07-2010, 02:25 PM
Thanks everyone for your suggestions and observations.
Ned

old377guy
11-07-2010, 04:32 PM
Thanks everyone for your suggestions and observations.
Ned


What was the price range for the boat this boat, Ned?

NWC
11-07-2010, 10:39 PM
You had the right range Jeff. He's asking $16,000 with the trailor.

old377guy
11-08-2010, 12:09 AM
Ok Ned, just to recap. There were 2 links posted in this thread that represented other "cleaner" boats of this type and vintage. The two boats were representative of what's out there. 1.) a 38' scarab without trailer that went for 19k; add another 6-7k for a trailer and that boat's cost is 25-26k. The other is a 34' Scarab without motors that went for 11k; add another 5-6k for the blocks and that boat's cost is 16-17k. All three boats need a thorough going over (as should any new to you boat). The 38' that you were looking at clearly needs the most amount of time and elbow grease. Frankly any used boat is a crap shoot and the old 1980 beater may prove just as or more reliable than the other two vessels, and it may be had for thousand(s) less dollars. I'm on my 6th season with my 1983 38' Scarab and while it was rough to begin with it has served reliably for all this time with less than $1000 (yes, that's correct) invested in re-dos and repairs. What you've got to ask yourself is if you are up for a buttload of cleaning, degreasing, grinding, priming, painting, buffing,and just re-rigging. All the best. - Jeff

NWC
11-13-2010, 07:49 AM
Thanks Jeff. Kinda what I was thanking. I know that this boat is running now and the owner appears to be up front with what he knows is needed. Ive always loved the early 80's Scarabs and Cigarettes and dont mind working on one to make it right. There are upgrades that I would like to do to the boat if I get her and I would do these knowing that it wont be a $60,000 boat when im done.

Again, thanks to everyone for your help and responces.

Ned

Ratickle
11-13-2010, 09:04 AM
If you are still considering the boat, the cost of a survey is cheap compared to what you may find. The survey must be complete with leakdown, compression, and most of all......Moisture throughout the boat wood. All stringers and transom.


If all of those check out okay, then it is as Ed says, hard work and (maybe) small money. But, if the transom or stringers are bad. Or compression/leakdown is off, you have $$$$$$ required.

NWC
11-13-2010, 09:30 AM
A survey is going to be my next move on this. - Ned

Ratickle
11-13-2010, 09:50 AM
The other thing you want to watch.

That boat, in good shape, is probably worth 30 in todays market on a trailer. New power and drives, 40ish.....

Do not make a plan to spend more than that for your final number. They are out there for that.

Make a list of what you want to spend and what items required cost. Watch your number, get quotes ahead of time.

JETJOCK
11-13-2010, 09:58 AM
There was a 1987 38KV up near MO on e/bay a few weeks back with trailer and turn key asking 30K.

It was a silver one repainted as it was a Vice edition.

Cigboat#1
11-14-2010, 02:08 AM
Jeff ,take a close look at the pictures ,they can be blown up so you can see better.The whole boat is a rotted mess in the cabin and I shutter to see what the transom and bilge looks like and that does not count how bad the the pumps ,electronics and gauges are. The boat is too big of a mess without a complete strip down You are looking at a three or four year project if you want to spend the time and money.Boating is about being out there having a good time with someone---- not trying to salvage a junker!Like I said iin my earlier post---Walk away Ned ...




Jim

old377guy
11-14-2010, 02:22 PM
I know what you mean Jim and see what you see. Of course the boat needs to be entirely stripped of all equipment and ancillary systems. You are correct that it could very well take 3-4 years to get everything into just "good" condition. Nowhere is it written that everything must be done in the first season. Whether that is acceptable is dependent on Ned's situation. When I was in my 20's with no kids and plenty of time and energy, it was very do-able as we always had 4 or 5 boats in the stable. Today is a very different scenario. Ned has to decide in light of the information. - Jeff

Cigboat#1
11-14-2010, 08:55 PM
Jeff ,I also understand what you are saying about not doing everything in the first year..
"BUT" a large boat is not like an old car you can pull off the highway and walk if you have to. The very least that could happen is that you get stuck out there floating around for a while .Then again you could get killed if the boat sinks or the fuel tanks start to leak and have a fire ----- or worse an explosion.
I know those chances are slim but I am not in my twenties and even if I were I would have think real hard if I was having my family or buddies on the boat.I guess you are right, Ned needs to make some choices..


Jim

old377guy
11-27-2010, 02:14 PM
What did you finally do, Ned?

NWC
11-28-2010, 09:05 PM
I appreciate yours and Jims input and opinions about this boat. I'm making an offer to the owner pending a survey that clears the bulkheads, transom and stringers. Everything else, I believe I can handle and have a nice boat. All i've got is time and the ball is in his court. Having a sound boat, mechanicly and structuraly is my main concern with cabin apperance second.
Thanks again for everyones input. Ya'll have been a great help!
Ned

Ratickle
11-28-2010, 09:08 PM
I appreciate yours and Jims input and opinions about this boat. I'm making an offer to the owner pending a survey that clears the bulkheads, transom and stringers. Everything else, I believe I can handle and have a nice boat. All i've got is time and the ball is in his court. Having a sound boat, mechanicly and structuraly is my main concern with cabin apperance second.
Thanks again for everyones input. Ya'll have been a great help!
Ned

Keep us informed how it goes.......

JETJOCK
11-28-2010, 09:18 PM
Can't argue with a man following his dreams.......damn Scarab bite is a hard one to recover from!

old377guy
11-28-2010, 09:24 PM
yeah, like Paul said, let us know what happens.

Cigboat#1
11-28-2010, 11:04 PM
Ned ,you know where we are located ---- so if you need any other help dont be afraid to ask the guys here..... They will give you the straight scoop every time.



Jim

Rookie
12-02-2010, 05:49 PM
I appreciate yours and Jims input and opinions about this boat. I'm making an offer to the owner pending a survey that clears the bulkheads, transom and stringers. Everything else, I believe I can handle and have a nice boat. All i've got is time and the ball is in his court. Having a sound boat, mechanicly and structuraly is my main concern with cabin apperance second.
Thanks again for everyones input. Ya'll have been a great help!
Ned

Alright we are curious on the survey and if you made an offer.

JETJOCK
12-06-2010, 04:40 PM
Go check Craigslist again for 38 KV Scarab for sale......"32,500 asking"

http://stlouis.craigslist.org/boa/2022269419.html

Make him an offer and go turn key!

insanity
12-06-2010, 05:58 PM
I would offer the guy $1600 for the boat tops.

Clear water line from it sitting in the water, rotten, MOLDY cabin. Hell the oil filter mounts aren't even mounted on the engine, they are just laying in there.

The one in Pawnee, IL looks awesome tho.

JETJOCK
12-06-2010, 10:28 PM
This is the one for sale in the St. Louis Craigslist....

Turn key and ready to go.....

http://www.lake-minnetonka.net/scarab.htm