switching to synthetic oil?

[Bill]

For the Ford Techs out there... I have a 2010 F250 with the V-10 in it. Currently, I have 300 miles on it. I normally do my first oil change at 1K miles...Given that, I have not had a gas tryuck for awile, so what is a safe mileage to switch to full syn oil? I am an Amsoil dealer, so that is what I will be using.

Thanks!

[fixxxer22]

You amsoil guys stand by your product. so change when you feel like you are ready. Just switch to 5w-30. they run 5w-20 in the trucks because they have a high boulme oil pump and they are looking for that 1/100th of a mile per gallon aout of the thinner oil. also stick with motorcraft filters. i do so many repairs on the 3v engines (i am a gas tech as well) that involve de-laminating oil filters that clog vct housings and block oil flow to the upper engine and cause a mess. now we have inspectors come out and you will have a battle if you have engine failure and there is some other filter on the truck.

[Bill]

You amsoil guys stand by your product. so change when you feel like you are ready. Just switch to 5w-30. they run 5w-20 in the trucks because they have a high boulme oil pump and they are looking for that 1/100th of a mile per gallon aout of the thinner oil. also stick with motorcraft filters. i do so many repairs on the 3v engines (i am a gas tech as well) that involve de-laminating oil filters that clog vct housings and block oil flow to the upper engine and cause a mess. now we have inspectors come out and you will have a battle if you have engine failure and there is some other filter on the truck.


Thanks for the tips!! I will be by and buy some Ford filters, thanks!!!!!!

[Bill]

Finally got the truck out after 3 weeks of ownership! Had to test the v-10 with my lightest toy!!

[fixxxer22]

Thanks for the tips!! I will be by and buy some Ford filters, thanks!!!!!!

I think that you can get the motorcraft filters at both autozone and wal-mart. The correct filter is FL-820S. you can buy them here at lindquist but they will no doubt be a couple bucks higher in price.

[Bill]

I think that you can get the motorcraft filters at both autozone and wal-mart. The correct filter is FL-820S. you can buy them here at lindquist but they will no doubt be a couple bucks higher in price.

Again, THANK YOU!!!!!!

[07DominatorSS]

Again, THANK YOU!!!!!!

I am with the largest group of AMSOIL dealers in the country. I probably sell somewhere from 3-4000 EAO 11 oil filters per year, which is the filter for your truck. I have not ever had one issue with them. Yes there are some junk filters out there, and you should stay away from them. Personally I believe you get what you pay for when it comes to an oil filter. Be my guest on what you want to use, but there isn't a filter out there, that is better than an AMSOIL EAO.

And also, you should wait to change your oil till the recommended oem interval. Finally, I would recommend the AMSOIL SSO 0w-30 in your truck. Its simply the best!

[fixxxer22]

I am with the largest group of AMSOIL dealers in the country. I probably sell somewhere from 3-4000 EAO 11 oil filters per year, which is the filter for your truck. I have not ever had one issue with them. Yes there are some junk filters out there, and you should stay away from them. Personally I believe you get what you pay for when it comes to an oil filter. Be my guest on what you want to use, but there isn't a filter out there, that is better than an AMSOIL EAO.

And also, you should wait to change your oil till the recommended oem interval. Finally, I would recommend the AMSOIL SSO 0w-30 in your truck. Its simply the best!

regardless, you will be on thin ice unless anything but motorcraft is used and you have an engine failure. they dont care what oil you use. i have torn down trucks and had claims denied due to other filters.

i know you amsoil guys are proud but you wont get far when it comes to the big blue oval. they dont care what it is even if you say its better. a WAY bigger company with many more enginers call the shots.

I am just the messenger. if you came in with any filter i would warranty anything because its my job i fix things. but when they send the inspectors is when we get screwed. and so does the customer.

[07DominatorSS]

regardless, you will be on thin ice unless anything but motorcraft is used and you have an engine failure. they dont care what oil you use. i have torn down trucks and had claims denied due to other filters.

i know you amsoil guys are proud but you wont get far when it comes to the big blue oval. they dont care what it is even if you say its better. a WAY bigger company with many more enginers call the shots.

I am just the messenger. if you came in with any filter i would warranty anything because its my job i fix things. but when they send the inspectors is when we get screwed. and so does the customer.

You can say we're proud or whatever, AMSOIL makes superior products period! Now, tell your little FORD Engineers, which, I actually have a former one in my group of dealers, that they better put that IN WRITING, otherwise they don't have a leg to stand on, and the Magnusson Moss Act will supersede anything they have to say without it being in writing. Most customers get screwed because they are not educated enough on the laws when it comes to warranties. Lets be honest, does a major company want to spend any money on warranty repairs, HELL NO! Thats why there are laws protecting the average consumer, but they still need to know that they are protected, most don't!

[BUIZILLA]

You can say we're proud or whatever, AMSOIL makes superior products period! Now, tell your little FORD Engineers, which, I actually have a former one in my group of dealers, that they better put that IN WRITING, otherwise they don't have a leg to stand on, and the Magnusson Moss Act will supersede anything they have to say without it being in writing. Most customers get screwed because they are not educated enough on the laws when it comes to warranties. Lets be honest, does a major company want to spend any money on warranty repairs, HELL NO! Thats why there are laws protecting the average consumer, but they still need to know that they are protected, most don't! you are gloriously mistaken, Magnuson Moss don't mean sh1t if Amsoil can't prove their filter is better than the OEM spec's, in fact show me one single case of case law where that is not true.. just find one.. there is a BIG fleet down here that tried that Amsoil oil and filter extended trick with Mitsubishi trucks and they lost so big it wasn't funny... i'm talking multiple $18,000 engine failures... if Amsoil tells a client they can extend their intervals, or their stuff is better, then they better have a BIG bank account, they will lose every case in court.

Once again, show me just one case law where i'm wrong...

[07DominatorSS]

you are gloriously mistaken, Magnuson Moss don't mean sh1t if Amsoil can't prove their filter is better than the OEM spec's, in fact show me one single case of case law where that is not true.. just find one.. there is a BIG fleet down here that tried that Amsoil oil and filter extended trick with Mitsubishi trucks and they lost so big it wasn't funny... i'm talking multiple $18,000 engine failures... if Amsoil tells a client they can extend their intervals, or their stuff is better, then they better have a BIG bank account, they will lose every case in court.

Once again, show me just one case law where i'm wrong...

Well, yes you're correct. The product does have to meet or exceed OEM specs. Sorry I didn't mention that. Now for an entire fleet of trucks to have issues, doesn't seem to make much sense. I sell to the #2 rated fleet in the entire country up here in Michigan, as of 2009. They have over 650 pieces of equipment, including 120 police vehicles. They run AMSOIL products bumper to bumper in EVERYTHING, and have been for now close to 17 years. Their intervals on their police cars are 18-20000 miles, and once again, have been for close to 17 years!!! And this is just one of many fleets that I deal with. Sounds to me like that fleet you're talking about had some other outside factors. What led to engine failures? Lack of oil, outside source, filter failure? You have a better chance of being struck by lighting in the basement of a rubber house, than having an actual oil related failure. For oil to fail, its typically needs something to make it fail. i.e. antifreeze, fuel dilution, lack of oil, dirt (aka silicon).

[BUIZILLA]

a 650 vehicle fleet is little league around here LOL, and I dare you to prove thats the #2 fleet in the NATION...

we have a school fleet that is over 1200 buses and over 200 police cars alone, not including service and delivery and maintenance vehicles and thats just for a county school...

the local GSA is about triple that..

Amsoil is a good product but you'll lose in every court in this country against ANY car manufacturer in the world if Amsoil states to use their stuff and extend the intervals past the manufactures printed standards

once again, show me just ONE case history where i'm wrong, just one..

[fixxxer22]

Hey, I don't use amsoil i dont plan on it but i'm not saying its bad. And you proved my proud point. Im not trying to shove ford products down anyones throat. I'm just saying that if an inspector gets involved... it states in your owners manual to use only ford reccomemded parts or you could possibly void certain points of your warranty. I have been in almost fist fights with customers using amsoil in HUEI injector systems. It cant take the punnishment for a longer interval. The IPR duty cycle at idle on one was 25% due to how much the oil was foaming. he had many drivability issues. when i suggested we change the oil he said he can go 20k on it according to his dealer and did not want it changed. we had to agree to disagree. in the end we changed it and the truck ran well. he may have needed to be educated in what the proper interval is.

i was at first tip-toeing through this issue. guarantee you say something that can even be taken negative to an amsoil dealer you will have an argument on your hands.

BUIZILLA knows these injection system inside and out he deals with many other engines that have that system on it and knows the internals of the injectors. Even has tools that our dealer does not have. I bet he has seen more damage done by oils from many manufacturers not just amsoil. but i have learned in my dealer to try and shy away from it or let them know that 5k is still a good interval for the oil.

Bill, by all means run whatever oil you want. hell, you sell it. But i have had a wave of 5.4 and 6.8 3v engines that have blockages from bad oil filters and causing the VCT system to run incorrectly and even bending valves. that is when the inspector comes. I want to fix it without cost to the customer at all times. But you cant just thread on another filter when you have her tore down. they will know. I am at ther mercy of Ford Motor Co. during any warranty repair. If the customer needs to be a lawyer to defend their rights to use a different product, Fine... But why not just save the money and run what they say to. why bother with the expensive oil and filter if it dosent matter. If it is considered inferior to amsoil and can still operate on it to fords specs. then just run it.

[fixxxer22]

OASIS SPECIAL SERVICE MESSAGE NUMBER: 21049
MESSAGE TITLE: 1997-2010 MULTIPLE VEHICLE - 4.6L/5.4L/6.8- ENGINE TICKING AND/OR RATTLE NOISE

APPLICABLE VEHICLES :
1997 - 2010 CAR : 00015 CROWN VICTORIA
1997 - 2010 CAR : 00094 TOWN CAR
1997 - 2010 CAR : 00044 GRAND MARQUIS
1997 - 2010 CAR : 00071 MUSTANG
1997 CAR : 00092 THUNDERBIRD
1997 - 2010 TRUCK : 00016 E-SERIES
1997 - 2010 TRUCK : 00029 F-SERIES LD
2002 - 2010 TRUCK : 00134 EXPLORER 4DR
2002 - 2010 TRUCK : 00070 MOUNTAINEER
1997 - 2010 TRUCK : 00026 EXPEDITION
1998 - 2010 TRUCK : 00106 NAVIGATOR

OASIS MESSAGE :
MULTIPLE VEHICLE LINES WITH 4.6L OR 5.4L ENGINE MAY EXPERIENCE AN ENGINE TICKING
OR RATTLE NOISE THAT SOUNDS LIKE A STUCK TAPPET (HLA). THIS MAY BE DUE TO THE
DETERIORATION OF AN AFTERMARKET OIL FILTER. VEHICLES WITH THIS CONDITION HAVE
LOW OIL PRESSURE AT ONE CYLINDER HEAD ONLY, WHILE MAIN PRESSURES ARE NORMAL.
DISLODGED MATERIAL FROM THE AFTERMARKET OIL FILTER BLOCKS THE CAM CAP OIL
PASSAGE, EITHER AT CYLINDER #4 (RIGHT BANK REAR) OR CYLINDER #5 (LEFT BANK
FRONT). FOR VCT EQUIPPED ENGINES, INSPECT THE VCT VALVE BODY AND THE OIL
PASSAGES UNDER THE FIRST CAM CAP. DAMAGE TO ENGINES CAUSED BY AFTERMARKET OIL
FILTERS ARE NOT COVERED UNDER WARRANTY.


APPLICABLE SYMPTOM CODES :
400000 ENGINE
401000 ENGINE OIL SYSTEM CONCERNS
497000 ENGINE NOISE CONCERNS
499000 ENGINE BASIC ENGINE

[BUIZILLA]

try running anything but 5W20 at the factory change intervals in a Mod 4.6, 4.6 2V, 4.6 3V or any 5.4 and see if Ford will warranty it

better yet, run the Amsoil out to 17,000 miles and call Ford and tell them you use aftermarket filters, and extended oil changes, and you may have an engine problem, tell them YOUR decided maintenance schedule, and see what their reply is...

get back to us :bump:

[07DominatorSS]

a 650 vehicle fleet is little league around here LOL, and I dare you to prove thats the #2 fleet in the NATION...

we have a school fleet that is over 1200 buses and over 200 police cars alone, not including service and delivery and maintenance vehicles and thats just for a county school...

the local GSA is about triple that..

Amsoil is a good product but you'll lose in every court in this country against ANY car manufacturer in the world if Amsoil states to use their stuff and extend the intervals past the manufactures printed standards

once again, show me just ONE case history where i'm wrong, just one..

I can get you a copy of the award of them being #2 fleet in the country. Thats no big deal. Actually, you can probably look it up yourself. The city is The City of Troy, Michigan. 1200 buses? Is that for an entire state? And almost everyone of their police cars is a Crown Victoria, and their Ford Dealer is well aware of their maintenance schedule. One more thing, I bet in the manual of these new Ford vehicles, it recommends 5w-20 oil, however, it'll also state you can use 5w-30 in warmer climates. The key word to all of this is "recommend", not "required". Once again as long as it meets or exceeds spec, it is what it is.

[Bill]

try running anything but 5W20 at the factory change intervals in a Mod 4.6, 4.6 2V, 4.6 3V or any 5.4 and see if Ford will warranty it

better yet, run the Amsoil out to 17,000 miles and call Ford and tell them you use aftermarket filters, and extended oil changes, and you may have an engine problem, tell them YOUR decided maintenance schedule, and see what their reply is...

get back to us :bump:


Let me say this, I do not care what AMSOIL says, I would NEVER go more then 5K on an oil change. Actually, I do change it at 5K in my Scion, and will be between 2 and 3K in the truck and I do it about every 1500 in my wifes wrangler.

As far as warranty issues, no matter who the mfg. is, for them to deny warranty, they HAVE to prove that the non OEM part caused the failure. It is not up to the customer to prove it did not, the MFG must prove it did cause the failure.

Also, I must say, this thread is the first time I have ever heard of someone badmouthing AMSOIL, and that is ok, everyone has their own opinion, if ya do not like something, do not use it, pretty simple!! :driving:

[Bill]

And again, thanks for the tips ya'll have given me, much appreciated!!!!

[fixxxer22]

I like your outlook Bill. You have a great attitude! Sorry to be negative on your thread. :cheers2: :kiss:

[Chris]

I bought a GM with a 5.7 in it new in '96. Still have it- has 325K on the engine and it's never been apart. Runs like new. All that it's had is injectors. I put Mobil 1 in it at the first change and thet's all it's had in it since. 10K intervals. Still uses no oil to speak of- it might be a half qt low at the change.

Now on the Ford diesels, I wouldn't dream of trying anything like that. That 100K warranty has too much value. And the filters aren't that expensive. The oil isn't either. But a reman 6.0 with installation certainly is.

[BUIZILLA]

1200 buses? Is that for an entire state? uhhh, no... one county... and i'm probably low at that number, and that doesn't include the police cars and service vehicles that serve over 500++ enrolled schools, again, this is in ONE county..... like I said, this isn't little league...
Amsoil is a good product, I have used it for years, use it in my '07 Harley too, but going out to oil change intervals that you state, is.... well, uhhhh, <fill in the blanks>
if your so confident that Ford will buy into your theory, get us an official statement from Ford, and get back to us... surely, Amsoil would have that if your SALES HYPE IS TELLING CUSTOMERS THAT, wouldn't they?

[BUIZILLA]

OASIS MESSAGE :
MULTIPLE VEHICLE LINES WITH 4.6L OR 5.4L ENGINE MAY EXPERIENCE AN ENGINE TICKING
OR RATTLE NOISE THAT SOUNDS LIKE A STUCK TAPPET (HLA). THIS MAY BE DUE TO THE
DETERIORATION OF AN AFTERMARKET OIL FILTER. VEHICLES WITH THIS CONDITION HAVE
LOW OIL PRESSURE AT ONE CYLINDER HEAD ONLY, WHILE MAIN PRESSURES ARE NORMAL.
DISLODGED MATERIAL FROM THE AFTERMARKET OIL FILTER BLOCKS THE CAM CAP OIL
PASSAGE, EITHER AT CYLINDER #4 (RIGHT BANK REAR) OR CYLINDER #5 (LEFT BANK
FRONT). FOR VCT EQUIPPED ENGINES, INSPECT THE VCT VALVE BODY AND THE OIL
PASSAGES UNDER THE FIRST CAM CAP. DAMAGE TO ENGINES CAUSED BY AFTERMARKET OIL
FILTERS ARE NOT COVERED UNDER WARRANTY.


APPLICABLE SYMPTOM CODES :
400000 ENGINE
401000 ENGINE OIL SYSTEM CONCERNS
497000 ENGINE NOISE CONCERNS
499000 ENGINE BASIC ENGINE actually, this is a good support system for what I have to say now.... oil filters is a dirty word(s), literally... unlike oil(s), filter manufacturers do not have an SAE or API or any other spec they must adhere to in construction materials, media, filtration quality, absorption, or contaminant separation... it's a free for all to make the absolute cheapest filter for the marketing shelf stock... which is why most all car manufacturers aren't sticklers to oil brands as they are to oil filter usage. I am a HUGE fan of OEM quality oil filters, especially Ford. Cummins uses Fleetguard, GM uses AC Delco, yada yada... Most every filter builder has had degenerate days... Donaldson and Baldwin included... the absolute worst I have seen lately, actually for a longggg while now, has been Fram. Junk, pure junk.. CAT uses Donaldson, and for good reason, excellent product, i've NEVER seen a CAT branded filter EVER fail in 40 years of my turning screws.. I can't stress enough about filter and oil brand use in a HEUI engine... if you could spend 20 minutes in my shop and watch testing of HEUI injectors you would CLEARLY understand my sentiment... the school system we do work for uses CAT filters and NAPA Fleet 15W40 oil, which is Valvoline (same blend as Cummins Blue without the blue dye) in EVERY 3126 and C7, all are HEUI and also Navistar DT466 and, T444E, both HEUI. In the last 3 years since I convinced them to switch from Rotella T they have had virtually zero injector failures due to oil, previous to that they had at least 20-30 a month due to oil failure alone... turbo failures were 15-20 a month and now it's about 4-5... all they did was get rid of Rotella T oil. They do use NAPA Gold Series (Wix) filters in the gas engines and Cummins ISB's in the box delivery trucks. Once again, zero engine failures. Timed out wear outs, yes, oil related failures, no. Oil service is at 7500 for diesels or every 90 days, and 5,000 for gas. Fla D.O.T. has STRICT guidelines for school buses, every single school bus in this state gets inspected every 28 days, no if's, ands, or buts about it, and they have a zero tolerance policy for vehicle engine manufacturer guideline policys to be broken.

[07DominatorSS]

uhhh, no... one county... and i'm probably low at that number, and that doesn't include the police cars and service vehicles that serve over 500++ enrolled schools, again, this is in ONE county..... like I said, this isn't little league...
Amsoil is a good product, I have used it for years, use it in my '07 Harley too, but going out to oil change intervals that you state, is.... well, uhhhh, <fill in the blanks>
if your so confident that Ford will buy into your theory, get us an official statement from Ford, and get back to us... surely, Amsoil would have that if your SALES HYPE IS TELLING CUSTOMERS THAT, wouldn't they?

Ok well, I'm talking one city, not County, of 600+pieces of equipment. Now, if you'd like me to get into MACOMB County Road Commission, that also uses AMSOIL, we can definitely get in the neighborhood of 1200+ pieces of equipment, probably more! Now how would you like to hear of a battery truck fleet, who used to change oil every 3-5000 miles, now change oil every 100K miles?! Oh yeah, and have been doing so, also for nearly 17 years! That doesn't even factor in idle time! I can go on and on. Now you must realize that these companies/municipalities use oil analysis. They don't just drive that long on oil changes. There has been numerous tests done on their equipment over the years, and when all is said and done, these are the miles they have been able to get out of oil changes. I'm glad to hear you use it in your Harley, and hopefully you use the gearlube in the trans on that Harley, that is a noticeable difference. I wasn't trying to start any holy wars here, but, just provide some field experience that I have with the AMSOIL products.

I just noticed your post on filters, and yes you are absolutely correct on FRAM being complete junk!!! FYI, our EAO oil filters, use the same Donaldson Nanofiber media that is used in their Endurance line, in them. So as you say, Donaldson filters are very very good, which, not to put words in your mouth, must mean our EAO filters, are very very good also.

[Bill]

I like your outlook Bill. You have a great attitude! Sorry to be negative on your thread. :cheers2: :kiss:


Thanks!! I ask you becasue you know!! I see no negativity from you at all!!!


:cheers2:

[Bill]

Did somebody say Apache?!?!?!? lmao

[fixxxer22]

I do want to chime in on oil analysis. Ford (using Navistar engines) has no spec for what is contained in your oil. And no spec for gas engines. What do you use to compare known good oil from a vehicle at 3k on its oil.

[BUIZILLA]

I just noticed your post on filters, and yes you are absolutely correct on FRAM being complete junk!!! FYI, our EAO oil filters, use the same Donaldson Nanofiber media that is used in their Endurance line, in them. So as you say, Donaldson filters are very very good, which, not to put words in your mouth, must mean our EAO filters, are very very good also. The Amsoil filters are, indeed, good, sometimes too good, any extra media stackup tends to lower the oil volume through them, so the industry is not a fan of stacked media filters that supposedly offer more protection.. this can be a bad thing... what the industry has a HUGE problem with is the syn. oil blenders bragging on extended intervals outside the engine manuf. guidelines, then walking away if there is a problem.. rest assured, the clamps are on, and the party is over, industrywide for that posturing... as far as my Street Glide, changing from the Harley syn oil to Amsoil was an oustanding difference in oil temp reduction. engine noise, and overall performance, I just can't brag enough on how good the Amsoil Harley oil is, the bike was miserably hot with the factory oil and HD syn oil, so much so I didn't ride it at all for the first 3 months after I bought it, until I added another oil cooler and the Amsoil, which lowered the oil temp about 50*, even more after the Race Tuner was installed...i'm talking from 256* on delivery day to below 200* most times now... but that doesn't mean it's staying in there for 20,000 miles LOL

carry on.....

[07DominatorSS]

I do want to chime in on oil analysis. Ford (using Navistar engines) has no spec for what is contained in your oil. And no spec for gas engines. What do you use to compare known good oil from a vehicle at 3k on its oil.

The lab compares the used oil to the same oil being new. I wish I could post a pic of a report from the lab that I personally use, The Oil Analysis Lab in Spokane, WA, but I can't. What the lab report shows is numerous things. Anything from water, antifreeze, viscosity, wear metal, and additives in the oil. They know what specs all these categories should be in, and then grade each category A,B,C,D or X. Obviously X being the worst. If these categories are within range of being new, then why change it, it would be just like putting new oil in. I wish I had the reports handy from the battery truck fleet I had mentioned. They used to use Rotella, and then switched to the AMSOIL 15w-40 Marine Diesel. At 100k they did an analysis of the 100K AMSOIL and one of the Rotella straight out of the bottle. Believe it or not, the AMSOIL with 100k on it, was still cleaner and stronger than the Rotella out of the bottle.

[fixxxer22]

Example of what that special service message is saying. this is in my bay right now. he bought it used from us. dont know its previous maintinence history. but it can be assumed from another filter. it is getting two heads, cams, phazers, vct actuators, and vct housings. i have to get the engine out of it now and do all that work. it is covered by ford warranty. the truck is an 07. they do understand that this gentelman did not buy the truck new and they do know it is from a lack of maintinence.

So, on the other side of the coin.... If this was the first owner and he brought it in with the engine noise this is currently making. and it had a fram flilter on it and it was one of those days that they decided to send and inspector. he would be screwed.

the worse part of it all is the fact that this guy has the material from the scored cam bearings and worn cams in his oil. he does not get a long block or approval to tear it all down and have it cleaned and fixed. all he gets is heads. if it were mine i would want more done. but that is all i can do with old henry paying the bill. look at the staining in that engine. look at the staining on that cam. it sucks ya know.... so ... run the ford filters if it can save you all this hassle just run them. the 6.8 is this engine with 2 more cylinders.

[Rich]

My fleet is bigger than your fleet.... LOL:biggrinjester: