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View Full Version : PLEASE HELP!!! What drive was on this boat? never seen it



baja931
05-09-2010, 09:48 PM
OK guys to make a long story short. My dad owns a car dealership and for some reason he decided to buy another boat that ran through one of the auctions last week. Its a 1987 32 footer. From running the hull id it says the boat was made by K&K industries. Its a really good looking boat that came with twin ig blocks, i believe there 454's. The one problem with the boat is there are no drives on the boat! They were takin off by the boat before it got re poed. I cant figuire out for the life of me what drives this boat had on it:smash::smash: I have never seen a bolt pattern like this before. It has Borg Warner transmissions on it. From the tag on them they said they were Velvet Drives? If you guys can help me figuire out what drive you think goes on this boat it would be awesome!

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MOBILEMERCMAN
05-09-2010, 10:00 PM
Looks like it used to be a stern power.. It was a budget alternative to Merc years ago.

I would suggest you don't waste your time looking to restore it like it was. Put something else on it.

DAREDEVIL
05-09-2010, 10:06 PM
OK guys to make a long story short. My dad owns a car dealership and for some reason he decided to buy another boat that ran through one of the auctions last week. Its a 1987 32 footer. From running the hull id it says the boat was made by K&K industries. Its a really good looking boat that came with twin ig blocks, i believe there 454's. The one problem with the boat is there are no drives on the boat! They were takin off by the boat before it got re poed. I cant figuire out for the life of me what drives this boat had on it:smash::smash: I have never seen a bolt pattern like this before. It has Borg Warner transmissions on it. From the tag on them they said they were Velvet Drives? If you guys can help me figuire out what drive you think goes on this boat it would be awesome!

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The best way is to close the transom and stick some bravos on it !!!!
U can buy them used for little money and u have an awsome boat that will hold up , hence its only 32 feet and 454's in it...should run mid to high 70's !!!!

If not..let me know and i might be intressted in the boat !!!!:sifone:

MOBILEMERCMAN
05-09-2010, 10:09 PM
I am sorry I forgot to Welcome you here at Serious.

Thanks for joining us.

DAREDEVIL
05-09-2010, 10:10 PM
I am sorry I forgot to Welcome you here at Serious.

Thanks for joining us.

:iagree::rolleyes::sifone::seeya:

baja931
05-09-2010, 10:17 PM
Well thank you for the welcome i have been looking around the forum really like it. So you think what it had in it was a drive called Stern Power? Say this bolt pattern really confused me. With the Borg Warner's in it i thought it possibly had some type of really old Arneson set up? At least that was one persons idea. So you guys recomend just doing a transom fill and starting over? If we go that route (probably will have to) would you recomend bravos, or possibly putting an Arneson drive on it?

MOBILEMERCMAN
05-09-2010, 10:21 PM
Arneson makes a nice drive that will work on it. It is a toss up as to whether you put Bravo's or the Arnesons on it. The Arnesons the engines will stay closer to where they are now possibly the same place. Bravos will need to move the engines back. Konrads are a possibility as well. Parts are available for any of those mentioned.. You will probably need to up grade steering too.

DAREDEVIL
05-09-2010, 10:23 PM
Well thank you for the welcome i have been looking around the forum really like it. So you think what it had in it was a drive called Stern Power? Say this bolt pattern really confused me. With the Borg Warner's in it i thought it possibly had some type of really old Arneson set up? At least that was one persons idea. So you guys recomend just doing a transom fill and starting over? If we go that route (probably will have to) would you recomend bravos, or possibly putting an Arneson drive on it?

It depends on what power your thinking down the road...if u stay mild ..lets say 600 HP max each..then go Bravo I,,u can start out cheap that way and later upgrade to IMCO or so....
If u think u want 600 + and stuff like that i would go ASD 6 in a light boat like a 32 footer its plenty !!!!

I seen used Bravos incl HP gimbals for 5500 a pair !!!! , u can sell the trannys and set the engines back or leave the engines and stick some boxes on it , that way u may not even need to fill the holes and use driveshafts to the gimbal !!!!!!:cheers2:

baja931
05-09-2010, 10:28 PM
It depends on what power your thinking down the road...if u stay mild ..lets say 600 HP max each..then go Bravo I,,u can start out cheap that way and later upgrade to IMCO or so....
If u think u want 600 + and stuff like that i would go ASD 6 in a light boat like a 32 footer its plenty !!!!

I seen used Bravos incl HP gimbals for 5500 a pair !!!! , u can sell the trannys and set the engines back or leave the engines and stick some boxes on it , that way u may not even need to fill the holes and use driveshafts to the gimbal !!!!!!:cheers2:


Yeah i have seen Bravos for around that price as well, which isnt bad. I may need more info on what your saying about maybe not needing to fill the hole. This is our first power boat we have had. We have had lots of ski boats and Cabin cruuiser. Currently we have a 32 foot regal cruiser and a ski boat. I have heard stuff about the bravos blowing up easily in these types of boats and thats why i was told to go with the Arnesons??

DAREDEVIL
05-09-2010, 10:30 PM
Looking at your pictures i think its a pop of from either 32 excalibur or a cobra ( Powerplay ) all of these run eccselent with Bravo's on boxes !!!

here is a picture of my old one.... similar

MOBILEMERCMAN
05-09-2010, 10:33 PM
Get some more info to us.. Some pix of the engines would be helpful.. I would suggest you check it out well. Check out and run the engines for sure. Make sure there are no other problems before you start spending money.. I think you will need to fill at least part of the holes for Boxes.. They would be a nice way to go too.. Like DD said your power intentions will play a big part as to which way to go.

DAREDEVIL
05-09-2010, 10:34 PM
Yeah i have seen Bravos for around that price as well, which isnt bad. I may need more info on what your saying about maybe not needing to fill the hole. This is our first power boat we have had. We have had lots of ski boats and Cabin cruuiser. Currently we have a 32 foot regal cruiser and a ski boat. I have heard stuff about the bravos blowing up easily in these types of boats and thats why i was told to go with the Arnesons??

If u go with arnesons...hell yea, they will ot break, but a set of those are about 40-45 K !!!!!!
i would not go and buy used old arnesons,,they do not do justis on a build up !!!!!!
But thast me !

Also, before u do anything i would check the transom for water damage ....just a tought !

baja931
05-09-2010, 10:42 PM
I will attach a few pictures of the engines. We have already pertially gone through the motors. Both start and run fine. Couldnt find any major porblems with them. They need the carbs cleaned on them, but they both run strong. Honestly like i said its my dads boat, and he isnt looking to be the fastest guy on the lake. He is just going to want the boat to work. The hull appears to be solid as well. The boat was in the water last year.

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baja931
05-09-2010, 10:47 PM
I can take more pictures of it tomorrow. I mean if you think bravos would do a good job they might be good to go with. You think stay away from tryign to find a Stern Powr to put back on though

DAREDEVIL
05-09-2010, 10:49 PM
I will attach a few pictures of the engines. We have already pertially gone through the motors. Both start and run fine. Couldnt find any major porblems with them. They need the carbs cleaned on them, but they both run strong. Honestly like i said its my dads boat, and he isnt looking to be the fastest guy on the lake. He is just going to want the boat to work. The hull appears to be solid as well. The boat was in the water last year.

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They appear bigger then stock 454...they have 800-850s on them so i think they have work done to them,,,,only thing i see , that i don't like is the exhaust !!!!

But hey, for now i guess its ok !

If u wanna go real cheap, have a 1/2 aluminum plate made about 1&1/2 inches bigger then a extension box, bolt it on the transom, bolt the gimbal on to it , run drive shafts to the carrier and done...u would need to change the driveplate !!!!!
With that set up i would recomend Stelling boxes, i know where there is 1 for sale cheap...because they use a bearing carrier for the bravo inside the box,,imco would not work because its a plug in style shaft that runs thru the box in to the engine coupler !!!!!
Oh, and get the plate powder coated !

MOBILEMERCMAN
05-09-2010, 10:49 PM
Is it a salt water boat?

DAREDEVIL
05-09-2010, 10:51 PM
I can take more pictures of it tomorrow. I mean if you think bravos would do a good job they might be good to go with. You think stay away from tryign to find a Stern Powr to put back on though

U can't get them ,,and if u do ..there are no parts for them !!:eek:

MOBILEMERCMAN
05-09-2010, 10:51 PM
They don't look like Dominators to me.

baja931
05-09-2010, 10:55 PM
I have no idea of the history of the boat, like I said the boat was re poed and my dad bought it at an auction. The hull is extremely clean which makes me think it wasn’t a salt water boat, and the tags on it are from Michigan which is pretty far from salt water. However a dealer in Indy that looked at the pictures thought the engines had been in salt water?? Also he said he didn’t like the exhaust either.

DAREDEVIL
05-09-2010, 10:56 PM
They don't look like Dominators to me.

I looked again and your right more like 800's or so !
But bigger the stock 454's !?

baja931
05-09-2010, 11:01 PM
Is the up hill exhaust that big of an issue? So im getting the consensus that the best thing to do is probably get bravos on the boat?

DAREDEVIL
05-09-2010, 11:03 PM
Is the up hill exhaust that big of an issue? So im getting the consensus that the best thing to do is probably get bravos on the boat?

YES & YES !!!!!!! :eek::sifone:

MOBILEMERCMAN
05-09-2010, 11:07 PM
Whether it is salt water or not the engines look original. I suspect they made be near the end of their life. Boats have a way of $1000ing you to death. I would budget for engines too. So I will guess you will throw 15k at it real quick. You could easily spend twice that depending on the choices you make.. I agree it is a good looking boat sitting on a nice trailer. What is it? The Hull id number will say. The 1st three letters are the manufacturer code.

DAREDEVIL
05-09-2010, 11:11 PM
Whether it is salt water or not the engines look original. I suspect they made be near the end of their life. Boats have a way of $1000ing you to death. I would budget for engines too. So I will guess you will throw 15k at it real quick. You could easily spend twice that depending on the choices you make.. I agree it is a good looking boat sitting on a nice trailer. What is it? The Hull id number will say. The 1st three letters are the manufacturer code.

He said earlyer K&K Industries...pop of from excalibur i bet !
been a lot of them done in the early 80's..

K&K was a boat manufactor in Michigan in the 80's Hull ID should start with KNK !!!!!!

baja931
05-09-2010, 11:12 PM
From the hull id it says it was made by K&K industries, i have never heard of them. I believe they went out of business a while ago. But yes it is a very nice trailer and the boat itself looks quite nice. SO bravos is the recomendation then. No we just need to get a set and get them put in. Will probably be coming back here for more help on that. What do you guys think should be done abotu steerign and the exhaust? Im not sure if my dad is going to want to throw in new engines into it right now or not. But its up to him.

MOBILEMERCMAN
05-09-2010, 11:18 PM
There are a number of ways to go . Used 496 exhaust would be my first choice. Change the steering cylinders again there is used stuff around, I suggest you add electronic ignition to the list too.

baja931
05-09-2010, 11:18 PM
and yes it does start with KNK. So one more time also what was your guy's recomendations to go about putting a bravo in the boat. How would you do it

DAREDEVIL
05-09-2010, 11:19 PM
From the hull id it says it was made by K&K industries, i have never heard of them. I believe they went out of business a while ago. But yes it is a very nice trailer and the boat itself looks quite nice. SO bravos is the recomendation then. No we just need to get a set and get them put in. Will probably be coming back here for more help on that. What do you guys think should be done abotu steerign and the exhaust? Im not sure if my dad is going to want to throw in new engines into it right now or not. But its up to him.

The exhaust, i would leave for now...on the steering i would buy a add on steering system from Hardin marine ( and just change everything on the transom ),, the inside and the helm i bet are fine !!!!!
U can get a add on system for about 2500 Bucks NEW !!!
Or search used,,,plenty around....only thing u need are transom mounts,rams and wingplates or steering back plates for bravos and then just set them up the way they should be , hoses u can get made in a hydraulic shop !!!

MOBILEMERCMAN
05-09-2010, 11:21 PM
Briefly,,Pull engines, fill transom, change bellhousings. Relocate engines if you don't add boxes. It is labor intensive.

I am out. Best of luck

baja931
05-09-2010, 11:24 PM
Ok i was just making sure that you were recomending filling the hull and then starting fresh pretty much. I know earlier someone had mentioned maybe not filling the hull i just wanted to see what the thought was on that

DAREDEVIL
05-09-2010, 11:30 PM
Ok i was just making sure that you were recomending filling the hull and then starting fresh pretty much. I know earlier someone had mentioned maybe not filling the hull i just wanted to see what the thought was on that

I mentioned that if u go boxes there is a way around all that...is it proffesional..maybe not , will it work ...100% , did i do it .YES and still running today..!:sifone:

baja931
05-09-2010, 11:43 PM
So you really think this would work not filling the hull just using the plates?

DAREDEVIL
05-09-2010, 11:48 PM
So you really think this would work not filling the hull just using the plates?

YES !!!!!!, the drive shaft does not care if its 10 or 10.5 inches long..so u can leave the engines at the place where they at and only would need to change the driveplate and get rit of the trannys !!!!

MOBILEMERCMAN
05-10-2010, 08:26 AM
You will still need to add a rear engine plate mount. A motor with a drive line needs to be carried on four corners. Not filling the transom allows you to skip one of the many steps. If it were me I would fill it. You can weight your own options.

I would suggest you make a list to add up estimated cost. Then compare to what you can buy running for that. Many times when you piece things together you end up spending more or you could end up with a mess. In the end you want to be able to enjoy it and be proud of it. This is a lot of work for some one who has the means and experience to do it. If you haven't done this before or you need to pay to have it done I suggest you give it a lot of thought before diving in your bilge and wallet.

Chris
05-10-2010, 09:04 AM
You can also consider a pair of outboards.

baja931
05-10-2010, 12:04 PM
Well we got a really good deal on this boat, espcialy with how nice of a trailer it came with. Even if we put 10 to 12 thousand into it i think he would still be money ahead on it.

DAREDEVIL
05-10-2010, 01:05 PM
Well we got a really good deal on this boat, espcialy with how nice of a trailer it came with. Even if we put 10 to 12 thousand into it i think he would still be money ahead on it.

i did a little research on your boat...its poped from a cobra 32 not excalibur !

So the hull is the exact same thing as in my picture !!!!! Nice boat ...get-r-done :cheers2:

Offshore Ginger
05-10-2010, 02:19 PM
The boat was located here in holland mich at one time were it spent most of its lifetime here on lake Mac and Mich right down the street & in fact orginally the boat's color was a reddish orange jell coat before it got painted which when ordered new came with the biggest stern Power drives that were made at the time . I looked at the boat a few years back to purchase it because it was going for an unbeliievable price and as it turned out if you snooze you loose and could please post pics of the deck and sides to be sure if that is the same boat . Just curious where is your location ?

Chris
05-10-2010, 06:05 PM
Well we got a really good deal on this boat, espcialy with how nice of a trailer it came with. Even if we put 10 to 12 thousand into it i think he would still be money ahead on it.

Maybe.

Boats have a habit of being alot more expensive that you originally think they'll be. I really wouldn't just dive in. I'd make an effort to identify everything that's going to need to be done. And make a list with a realistic budget attached

For example, it's likely got the original wiring and fuel tanks in it. They don't last forever. In fact, they last about as long as that boat is old. A re-rig and tanks is not cheap or easy. If it's got rot in a stringer or bulkhead, you're looking at some significant work- assuming you have the ability to do it yourself. On the engines, I'd get them running and do a leakdown on them. That will tell you where you're at condition-wise. To a degree. These aren't car engines loping along at 30% load at 1400 rpm. They're running at 70-80% power at 4500 almost all the time with blasts to 100% at 5500 pretty regularly. If they've got 3-400 hours on them, a refresh is probably in order. And that's cheaper than rods thru the blocks.

Back to your list- there are alot of parts on a boat. None of it lasts forever. And parts for this boat cost the same as the identical parts on a new $250K boat. And if you find yourself replacing them all piecemeal, you can find yourself accidentally owning a $60,000 boat that's worth $25K. Lastly, being an off-brand, it's never going to be worth whatever you put into it. Dumping money into a 25-year-old Cigarette is a losing proposition. When you're doing it on a Brand X boat, it's way worse.

None of this is intended to discourage you. It's to help you think ahead and make an informed choice.

h2oMag
05-11-2010, 01:00 PM
and yes it does start with KNK. So one more time also what was your guy's recomendations to go about putting a bravo in the boat. How would you do it

Yes it is a Clem Gem well known here in Michigan. Jim made boats by many names, Lancer, Marine Dynamic Marine, Preditor, Aero, & Awesome Marine. If you look these names up on the net [ this site & others] you will find all you need to know about his boats.

jeffswav
05-11-2010, 07:46 PM
I think you need to budget a lot more money. There is a reason you got a smoking deal on the boat. That amount will not get you very far at all in the marine world. You will need either glass work or the plates. Inner and outer transom assembly, outdrives, misc rigging, exhaust and most likely engine work. And that is just what we can see from the pics. Good luck with your project.

FasterFaster
05-12-2010, 08:50 AM
Definately replace the engine manifolds. From the photos, there does not appear to be enough riser height to prevent water reversion. One quick back-down in a following sea (or lake) and those engines will gulp water.

Plug the transom and fit Bravos. It would not cost any more than fabricating and fitting a plate. With a plate, you'ld have to seal the transom wood anyway. Why not do it right?

DAREDEVIL
05-12-2010, 09:53 AM
Plug the transom and fit Bravos. It would not cost any more than fabricating and fitting a plate. With a plate, you'ld have to seal the transom wood anyway. Why not do it right?

I think there are 2 ways to do it right...the plate is a lot less work and money.
But only if u use boxes !!!!!

here, they even make one to convert volvo to merc ( which also fits trs to bravo ) but these are used without boxes so the are a little more complicated.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Mercruiser-adapter-Volvo-Penta-Alpha-bravo-827691a1-/400010809010?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Boat_Parts_Accessories_Gear&hash=item5d22808eb2

baja931
05-14-2010, 06:44 PM
thanks for all the inputt guys. sorry i havent been responding lately, i just started a new job on monday and have been super busy there. we ar still thinking what we want to do with the boat. i forget your username but to the guy who thought he recognized the boat ill try and get some more pics to see if its the same one. it was a michigan boat.

Offshore Ginger
05-14-2010, 08:00 PM
thanks for all the inputt guys. sorry i havent been responding lately, i just started a new job on monday and have been super busy there. we ar still thinking what we want to do with the boat. i forget your username but to the guy who thought he recognized the boat ill try and get some more pics to see if its the same one. it was a michigan boat. Its all good and i can even take pics of the boat house / hoist that it spent most of its life under . Hey guy that boat for many years just sat and it would be gone in the fall and there in the spring and once again where is your location ?