The Shadow Cat

[Steve2]

Just a few scans of an old brochure, not sure what year this is, but I am sure "someone" may know!
:USA:

[Steve2]

a few more popular ram wing cats....

[DAREDEVIL]

a few more popular ram wing cats....

Was the shadow based off a chris cat ???
Or are they just all very similar ??:confused:

[Steve2]

There is a guy by the name T2X who knows all...and was involved from the beginning and design up,,,,my understanding is the Chris was designed more for I/O power and the Shadow was for the O/B power, but all i know is they were the boat to beat in its day!

[DAREDEVIL]

There is a guy by the name T2X who knows all...and was involved from the beginning and design up,,,,my understanding is the Chris was designed more for I/O power and the Shadow was for the O/B power, but all i know is they were the boat to beat in its day!

Thanks :cheers2:

[Gladhe8er]

Was the shadow based off a chris cat ???
Or are they just all very similar ??:confused:

Shadow came first around 1980. Dominating with twin/triple outboards. Ran well with small blocks. The Chris Cat came out in 1983 and was built for big blocks. Here is my Dad's Shadow race boat.

[h2oMag]

Here is our old Shadow cat the Ambusher, that became the first Eastern Express before the 32' Skater .. We sold it to Greg Dunbar out of Grandhaven, he then raced her as CAT NIP.

[Bobcat]

Couple more of Special Edition/ Cayo Hueso Express

[OneBadInjun]

They've come a long way since that hull design, thats for sure. Like looking at a 50's Chevy, by todays standards, lol.

[Offshore Ginger]

Here is our old Shadow cat the Ambusher, that became the first Eastern Express before the 32' Skater .. We sold it to Greg Dunbar out of Grandhaven, he then raced her as CAT NIP. Hey ole friend funny thing i will be starting some repairs next week on one of the old Cat Nip boats next week and how is everything been on your side of the state?:seeya:

[T2x]

Was the shadow based off a chris cat ???
Or are they just all very similar ??:confused:

Actually the plug for the original Chris Cat was a modified Shadow Cat the sponsons were widened and the aft compression was increased to reduce the "Linder hop".

[T2x]

Shadow came first around 1980. Dominating with twin/triple outboards. Ran well with small blocks. The Chris Cat came out in 1983 and was built for big blocks. Here is my Dad's Shadow race boat.

You modestly forgot that Black Duck had as many wins as any hull in Offshore history.........

[h2oMag]

Hey ole friend funny thing i will be starting some repairs next week on one of the old Cat Nip boats next week and how is everything been on your side of the state?:seeya:

Artie if your working on the Shadow [Cat Nip] don't laugh :rofl: at my glass repair in the starboard front beak. It was around 1990, 40 degrees out here in Michigan & 2 weeks before the Worlds in Key West:willy_nilly:. Not my best work but she made the worlds, and a few more races after that. My back problems have held me back :eek: from doing any work on all my boats , but someday maybe. Other than that it's all good. h2o

[Gladhe8er]

You modestly forgot that Black Duck had as many wins as any hull in Offshore history.........

ehhhh....wasn't looking to brag too much! :bump:

Actually, I'm going to pick my boat up from Nicky Cutro this weekend.

[T2x]

ehhhh....wasn't looking to brag too much! :bump:

Actually, I'm going to pick my boat up from Nicky Cutro this weekend.

Tell him I said Hi!

[Gladhe8er]

Tell him I said Hi!

You got it!

[hammerhead]

Anyone remember "EL BOSS" one of the fastest in its day owner/driver Willy Diaz?

[skrap]

El Boss was an amazing boat, often running as fast as or faster than the Open Class 1 boats. Willie Diaz had no fear in any water.

[DAREDEVIL]

Cool VIDEO



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsC2uLoHN9s

:cheers2:

[Gladhe8er]

cool vid DD! old school!

[h2oMag]

Here are are a few pic's of Team Shadow....

[no limits]

Here is our old Shadow cat the Ambusher, that became the first Eastern Express before the 32' Skater .. We sold it to Greg Dunbar out of Grandhaven, he then raced her as CAT NIP.

Are you kidding me? So the Eastern Express Shadow became Cat NIP and Offshore Ginger owns it? Great boat. Got video from Suncoast Offshore race in 1989 (I believe) of this Shadow running.

[no limits]

What Shadow was "Crimson Tide" that ran in California. Seems like alot had #3s w/ the Saddle type tie bar as seen in "Special Edition" pic.

[h2oMag]

What Shadow was "Crimson Tide" that ran in California. Seems like alot had #3s w/ the Saddle type tie bar as seen in "Special Edition" pic.

I believe Crimson Tide was the old LOVE IT.

[Offshore Ginger]

Are you kidding me? So the Eastern Express Shadow became Cat NIP and Offshore Ginger owns it? Great boat. Got video from Suncoast Offshore race in 1989 (I believe) of this Shadow running. No i do not own the boat and if fact the old Cat Nip that i will be working on is a customers boat that is in Grand Haven Mich which is an old Eliminator that had a number # 3 speedmaster on it and when the team purchased a #32 skater the name of the boat was called Eastern Express .

[T2x]

I believe Crimson Tide was the old LOVE IT.

Crimson Tide was the second "Lov-it". The first was a converted OB hull that we built in a hurry for Davey Gilmore. He went with a true stern drive hull and deck about a year later....and later it wound up in California.

[Welfare Racing]

i wonder what the top speed of the factory boat was with the factory set -up 200 2.4's

[T2x]

i wonder what the top speed of the factory boat was with the factory set -up 200 2.4's

They were'nt 200's they were 225's..... and the factory plug with a wooden deck and a heavy layup (4400 lbs)ran about 72 mph with twins and a medium fuel load with 2 people. The amazing thing about that hull was that no matter how many people we put in it...up to about 10...the speed loss was only about 3-4 mph. Later with a stock customer boat we saw over 75 mph with the same power.

My race hull with a pair of T4's (about 375 hp each) ran 92-95 with cut down 1982 era Mercruiser SSM cleavers in race trim with light fuel.

T2x

[no limits]

Crimson Tide was the second "Lov-it". The first was a converted OB hull that we built in a hurry for Davey Gilmore. He went with a true stern drive hull and deck about a year later....and later it wound up in California.

Where is Crimson Tide/Love It Again now? Great boat!

[Bobcat]

Here is the "Special Edition/ Cayo Hueso Express" as she sits today in Big Coppitt, still no cover since 2005. She is tilted back to get the water out. There was no one home, and someone mentioned it and the Scarab Sport(very rough) next to it were for sale.

[Gladhe8er]

Oh man Bobcat...that looks rough. I wonder if it would even be worth it to get it back together.

[Bobcat]

The trailer still looks the same as it did 4 years ago when I worked on the house. I imagine the inside of the boat is soggy.

[Big Time]

Is it just me or does anyone else feel this urgency to go out and buy a tarp and offer to cover it up?....and I'm not even joking! It's as if throwing a cover on it now will all of a sudden reverse the effects of the past 10 years of sitting outside (or for however long it has been). Everyone once in a while I drive by an old checkmate that still looks in pretty decent shape here in town. The boat has been sitting for years and has never had a cover on it. I'm sure its in worse then it looks from the road, but I still want to knock on the homeowner's door and ask if I can cover it up!:leaving:

[Bobcat]

Kind of like seeing an old classic car in someone's yard that they won't sell it because "They are going to restore it themselves" and every year it gets a little bit worse.

[Brownie]

I always encouraged T2x to build a larger Shadow cat, so that we could use it for a box to ship Cougars........

[shadowcat]

I always encouraged T2x to build a larger Shadow cat, so that we could use it for a box to ship Cougars........


- there's no need for boxes- no one in their right mind would buy a cougar in the first place :cheers2: - unless of course you bought her the first drink !

[T2x]

I always encouraged T2x to build a larger Shadow cat, so that we could use it for a box to ship Cougars........

Sorry we couldn't oblige, but I do agree that many of your boats belonged in a "dumpster".

[OneBadInjun]

Sorry we couldn't oblige, but I do agree that many of your boats belonged in a "dumpster".Ooooouuuuu. That sounds like a touch of jealousy, if I ever heard it. Those Shadows did look like the only tool in the tooling shop was a miter box. If I was to rerig a cat, it would be something at least 20 years newer in design. Just my .02.

[Gladhe8er]

Ooooouuuuu. That sounds like a touch of jealousy, if I ever heard it. Those Shadows did look like the only tool in the tooling shop was a miter box. If I was to rerig a cat, it would be something at least 20 years newer in design. Just my .02.

Pretty sure he was joking. And not sure about the miter box comment. The Shadow was a darn good-lloking boat for back in the day.

[shadowcat]

-OBI- beauty is in the eye of the beholder!-so maybe you should open both of yours!!--------their records for the day should open both of yours !

[Bobcat]

I think they have great lines, about twenty companies splashed it so it must have had something going on.:sifone:

[T2x]

Ooooouuuuu. That sounds like a touch of jealousy, if I ever heard it. .

As usual you have no idea what you're talking about. Subtle humor must not have been taught on the "reservation"......or else you lost yours on Route 25A somewhere back in the 70's.

[T2x]

I think they have great lines, about twenty companies splashed it so it must have had something going on.:sifone:

Brownie and I have joked for years about this. The Shadow cat, in fact, was ugly as a stump(similar to a Flight Cat :D) ......... Linder insisted that it be 8 feet wide for trailering so we compromised on the side design..and the result was an ungainly hull that was awkward to look at from the rear quarter....especially on a trailer. The performance on the other hand was second to none at that time and can hold its own today....although the flat sides make it a very wet slow speed runner on a breezy day. The Chris Cat was a bit wider and had stepped sides but was only marginally different. Superboat managed to modify the lines after "popping" it and miraculously made it even uglier.....

The later 35 foot Shadow Cat plug had sculpted sides, looked very different from the 30, and was much more stylish. Of course I burned that plug....because I have a short temper and very little patience....especially with nitwit wannabes...(see post above).

The reason we started Conquest was because I really didn't like being hemmed in by tooling and was aggravated by the disappointment I had with the flat sided Shadow . My tunnel boat racing days with Molinari's and Seebolds taught me the value of both wood (speed and repairability) and no design limits. The ability to start with a clean sheet of paper with almost every boat was what had put Cougar at the top of the heap.....and we understood that. We did come up with a way to make wooden boats strong and durable.......so we did not have to play with aluminum like my friends, Mr. Brown and Mr. Curtis.

T2x

[Bobcat]

miraculously made it even uglier.....


I spit a little coffee on that one !:sifone:

[OneBadInjun]

Brownie and I have joked for years about this. The Shadow cat, in fact, was ugly as a stump(similar to a Flight Cat :D) ......... Linder insisted that it be 8 feet wide for trailering so we compromised on the side design..and the result was an ungainly hull that was awkward to look at from the rear quarter....especially on a trailer. The performance on the other hand was second to none at that time and can hold its own today....although the flat sides make it a very wet slow speed runner on a breezy day. The Chris Cat was a bit wider and had stepped sides but was only marginally different. Superboat managed to modify the lines after "popping" it and miraculously made it even uglier.....

The later 35 foot Shadow Cat plug had sculpted sides, looked very different from the 30, and was much more stylish. Of course I burned that plug....because I have a short temper and very little patience....especially with nitwit wannabes...(see post above).

The reason we started Conquest was because I really didn't like being hemmed in by tooling and was aggravated by the disappointment I had with the flat sided Shadow . My tunnel boat racing days with Molinari's and Seebolds taught me the value of both wood (speed and repairability) and no design limits. The ability to start with a clean sheet of paper with almost every boat was what had put Cougar at the top of the heap.....and we understood that. We did come up with a way to make wooden boats strong and durable.......so we did not have to play with aluminum like my friends, Mr. Brown and Mr. Curtis.

T2x

Well, I wasn't going to actually say it was "wet", "an ungainly hull", "with dissapointing hullsides", "awkward to look at", "ugly as a stump"...which is all true. All I said was it always looked "boxy" in design, and every suck-up on this board gets their panties in a bunch. Thank-you for recognizing George Linders shortcomings of asthetic design on the old Shadow 30. The deck design wasn't bad at all, considering. And it did run well, once you got past, say, 50 m.p.h. And 60 to 110 plus, was a blast, lol.

[Bobcat]

Nice, you kiss ass then slam at the same time.

[Brownie]

One thing that T2x, Linder and Adams did was to break the code on wood composite construction. They figured out how to avoid the old "acre of boat" result of running a wooden cat hard in rough water. Compared to the other boats that we used to race, the cats rode so well that it was possible to kill them while enjoying a nice ride. We went to aluminum construction so that at least it would sink after it broke up. Don't tell them that I said anything nice about them...........

[Bobcat]

:sifone:

[T2x]

One thing that T2x, Linder and Adams did was to break the code on wood composite construction. They figured out how to avoid the old "acre of boat" result of running a wooden cat hard in rough water. Compared to the other boats that we used to race, the cats rode so well that it was possible to kill them while enjoying a nice ride. We went to aluminum construction so that at least it would sink after it broke up. Don't tell them that I said anything nice about them...........

Maybe you and I can team up and "decode" the wood in some indian heads on this board......

See ya soon, Mister Brown.

[Steve2]

T2x, what is YOUR personal view about the differences of wood versus fiberglass in the fact that steve1 claims the exact same things you do about wood, only he uses glass. Not starting a war of words, but there must be a reason you prefer wood over glass - wouldn't glass give a much nicer finish and increase strength overall?

[OneBadInjun]

T2x, what is YOUR personal view about the differences of wood versus fiberglass in the fact that steve1 claims the exact same things you do about wood, only he uses glass. Not starting a war of words, but there must be a reason you prefer wood over glass - wouldn't glass give a much nicer finish and increase strength overall?

Steve...Adams built Linders designs using plywood covered in glass. They called it a new type of a composite. Not sure you and I would call it a true composite, by todays standards, but they did.

[Brownie]

Negatory. They used occasional layers of glass, Kevlar and pixie dust between the layers of wood......

[OneBadInjun]

Negatory. They used occasional layers of glass, Kevlar and pixie dust between the layers of wood......Pixie Dust??? Oh wow...talk about think'n outside of the box, eh Allan?! lol:cheers2:

[T2x]

T2x, what is YOUR personal view about the differences of wood versus fiberglass in the fact that steve1 claims the exact same things you do about wood, only he uses glass. Not starting a war of words, but there must be a reason you prefer wood over glass - wouldn't glass give a much nicer finish and increase strength overall?

Remember this was long before you could pop a plug out of a computer...... and during the infancy of cored materials. What we did was marry exotic plywood and the best glass laminates available.(A Conquest actually had as much glass as a Shadow but it was hand sandwiched between multiple layers of wood). George was skeptical at first, but we concocted a "recipe" after I asked Kenny to hand fabricate a number of different test laminates including Carbon fiber, bi and tri ax and even a 3/16 aluminum skin at one point. I still have a few of the samples. We settled on what finally became an almost bullet proof schedule and the boats evolved to the point where we could have removed the internal ribs after construction. (The pixie dust came from a little fairy who worked at a hair salon nearby, but that's another story.. :D)

To your point, I still feel that wood has a place in small circle type race boats. Wood has a lot of qualities that are difficult to reproduce artificially. Folks like Peter Hledin and Steve have certainly taken the glass construction technology to a point where it would be very difficult to beat them in terms of strength/weight ratio and design in the big boat arena. Structural integrity on the other hand has been greatly compromised worldwide in pursuit of light weight and speed. To me this is in direct conflict with the rigors of true offshore use and has resulted in grave tragedies like the fatal UIM crash last season. I believe that many of the major accidents and resultant injuries and fatalities have come at least in part as a result of the over use of ultra light technologies.

T2x

[Steve2]

Wood has a lot of qualities that are difficult to reproduce artificially. Folks like Peter Hledin and Steve have certainly taken the glass construction technology to a point where it would be very difficult to beat them in terms of strength/weight ratio and design in the big boat arena. Structural integrity on the other hand has been greatly compromised worldwide in pursuit of light weight and speed. To me this is in direct conflict with the rigors of true offshore use and has resulted in grave tragedies like the fatal UIM crash last season. I believe that many of the major accidents and resultant injuries and fatalities have come at least in part as a result of the over use of ultra light technologies.

Very interesting and i see you point of being "too light" may be a concern. But, if it is designed and engineered around a particular weight, don't you think the issues can be overcome through design compensation?

[Brownie]

At the 1979 World Championships in Venice, Italy, we had a round table discussion of catamaran construction, attended by myself (bit player), James Beard, Don Shead, all 3 Molinaris, Cesare Scotti, Bill Seybold, Clive Curtis, Sonny Levi, and a dozen others. We were all building plywood cats back then. Finally, the discussion reached aluminum, and the Italians got all excited by the concept of "Aero construzzione". Had to be the answer. Sonny Levi, King of droll, said "I say, have you ever seen an aircraaaaaaft that struck the f**king water? End of discussion.

[OneBadInjun]

Very interesting and i see you point of being "too light" may be a concern. But, if it is designed and engineered around a particular weight, don't you think the issues can be overcome through design compensation?

Yes, issues definately can be overcome by design.

[Jayhawker]

Sonny Levi, King of droll, said "I say, have you ever seen an aircraaaaaaft that struck the f**king water? End of discussion.

Disclaimer: forgive me as I am sitting here in my office dreaming of being on the water.

Fast forward 30 years and I have seen an airplane hit the deck of an aircraft carrier. I can't imagine a boat taking much more shock than that. It seems to me that the shear load from the center section to the hull has to be a very weak point on a cat. Has anyone ever tried to design a cat with a suspended center section?

[T2x]

Disclaimer: forgive me as I am sitting here in my office dreaming of being on the water.

Fast forward 30 years and I have seen an airplane hit the deck of an aircraft carrier. I can't imagine a boat taking much more shock than that. It seems to me that the shear load from the center section to the hull has to be a very weak point on a cat. Has anyone ever tried to design a cat with a suspended center section?


FYI The joint between the inner hull sides and tunnel roof is the strongest point in any cat hull by design and lamination thickness.

There have been two and four point suspended sponson cats tried on an experimental basis over the years with virtually no success. Interesting the fastest scale model race boat design ( I believe it's called the "Drag and Fly") uses a 4 point design with the main hull body supported on "legs"..... This design has been tried repeatedly at full scale and runs nothing like its smaller brother.

[300Chriscat]

I just dont think they ever go out of style...and will outrun and outhandle many for much less $$$$.

[lowblue320]

I just dont think they ever go out of style...and will outrun and outhandle many for much less $$$$.

"VERY" good looking boat, anymore pics? If you do please post.....

[Gladhe8er]

I just dont think they ever go out of style...and will outrun and outhandle many for much less $$$$.

That is a Shadow cat, right? From the midwest somewhere?

[Bobcat]

I just dont think they ever go out of style...and will outrun and outhandle many for much less $$$$.

That is a bad ass picture !:drool5:

[300Chriscat]

I can find other pics but these are all sisters, some old ,some newer but they are all SWEET. Spend a day in one and you might just be surprised:sifone: Shadow...Chris Cat...Awesome...American Offshore!!!!

[ajc1778]

bobcat, cayo is dry inside right now she's tilted back even more and it is looked in on every few wks to make sure shes draining, and the scarab isnt for sale its being redone slowly so far the transom and stringers have been done and the deck actually went in today. i am actually thinking about picking up the shadow some time but shes rough thats for sure. ide like to know what she would run with some 2.5's or 300's any ideas

[Bobcat]

That's good news, and welcome to SOS !:seeya:

[T2x]

bobcat, cayo is dry inside right now she's tilted back even more and it is looked in on every few wks to make sure shes draining, and the scarab isnt for sale its being redone slowly so far the transom and stringers have been done and the deck actually went in today. i am actually thinking about picking up the shadow some time but shes rough thats for sure. ide like to know what she would run with some 2.5's or 300's any ideas

Just make sure you weigh it first........... If she has gained water weight over the years...you need to know how much and where.

T2x

[ajc1778]

what do you guys think its worth the trailer is shot for sure , the drives are old as heck , no engines , tabs are there but pumps probably shot .

[Billy Power]

Shadow was out a few years before the Chris Cat.

[Ratickle]

Shadow was out a few years before the Chris Cat.

Welcome, Yep, Shadow 1980, Chris Cat 1983.