Baja OL Stringers glass work

[fixxxer22]

I Have been looking through many of the threads for construction and finishing and i am not seeing the dummy "how to fiberglass" instructions. I have been looking alot at jeffs raising the x posts and we had similar baja issues. I do not have pics at the moment but i had rotten stringers in the engine bay. the new boards are in and i used the weather-proof micro-lam. I have a friend that is in new home construction. He said i used a couple hundred dollars of wood in this fix. The transom is solid and dry. No leaks no signs of anything. I am happy for that.

My dad used to be an avid boater and made many repairs. I just think his info may be a little dated. He brought me this woven fibergalss and told me "that is what you use on a boat".

Basically, i do not know how to do fiberglass at all. I need to cover my bare wood and tie it all-together with the existing boat and to it well. I would also like to paint the bildge again to give it a brighter look. So, the fiberglass mat that my dad gave me will not be enough. It is not that tiger hair looking stuff it is organized and woven. All i have to do is the two stringers. They are just double the size now due to the beefing up. What do i need to buy? I have been told that it is very easy to do as long as you learn from someone who knows. I alsno need to install drains in the stringers due to the water that just sits there from prople getting in and out of the boat wet. The water just sits there on the outsides of the engine support stringers until i sop it up or shop vac it up. I need to know how to make a drain and not compromise the integrity of my boat. All i need is the water to drain into the bildge. It is not alot of water and I only see it if we are swimming and jumping in and out of my boat. sop it up and take it out a couple times late season and not swim you will not see any water.

If i cannot be taught over this forum, i understand. But any help would be awesome!

[jeffswav]

Post some pics of your project so everyone can take a look. I used 3/4 pvc pipe for the drains, I drilled a hole to the same OD as the pipe. Cleaned it up with a rotory tool, coated the inside of the hole with resin. Drove the pipe through the hole, then sealed everything up with resin. When water drains it tends to curl under so I cut the pipe little long. I can take a couple more detailed pics if that would help you.
The 1708 seamed to be the best glass to use, I used vinal ester resin. Tab everything in from the stringer to the transom, bulkhead and floor.

[fixxxer22]

Yeah, Took my engine out to get a good look at it and found the port side stringer was indented where the mount rode. I dig out the rotten wood cut out the fiberglass on the top and made a sleeve and installed new wood. but i made the inital stringer in the factory slot shorter then i sistered and glued another board along the stringer from the bulkhead to transom out of micro-lam on the outside of the stringer. And then laid another peice of micro-lam that was the width of the two boards on the 2 new stringers to tie them together and allow the engine to sit on the both of them. I can get pics here soon. I forgot to today. I was working on it all day. and im still itchy. It is 100% stronger than it was... just has no fibergalss on it now.

I really need to know the steps though. where to get the stuff, how to mix it, how clean everything has to be, how long it dries and how to apply it and do it correctly. i have never done it before.

[Trim'd Up]

You need to grind the the existing fiberglass to remove the paint and to give the new resin something to bite into. The flap discs work very well. The time to dry, mixing, and the fiberglass cloth you need depends on what resin you decide to use. You don't really need epoxy but it is the strongest and most expensive. Vinylester is second in strength and cost followed by polyester resin. Polyester is what your boat was built from originally so it is plenty strong. 1708 works well but I think 1208 is a little easier to form around tight bends and corners, but you need more layers to acheive the same strength.
US composites has good prices on material.
http://www.uscomposites.com/specialty.html

[insanity]

+1. The 1208 works a lot better for capping stringers. Rolls over the top a lot better.



You need to grind the the existing fiberglass to remove the paint and to give the new resin something to bite into. The flap discs work very well. The time to dry, mixing, and the fiberglass cloth you need depends on what resin you decide to use. You don't really need epoxy but it is the strongest and most expensive. Vinylester is second in strength and cost followed by polyester resin. Polyester is what your boat was built from originally so it is plenty strong. 1708 works well but I think 1208 is a little easier to form around tight bends and corners, but you need more layers to acheive the same strength.
US composites has good prices on material.
http://www.uscomposites.com/specialty.html

[fixxxer22]

what about the white gel coat? i was told i could just roll it on. Where can i get it. I want to paint the bildge at this time. it is a little rough looking.

[jeffswav]

what about the white gel coat? i was told i could just roll it on. Where can i get it. I want to paint the bildge at this time. it is a little rough looking.Yea, Baja did not take a lot of pride in the bilge. I did a lot of sanding in the bilge before I put the gel on, I used the gel because I got a good price on 5 gallons and had plenty. If you are only doing the bilge there are several paints that you can use.

[Offshore Ginger]

When , you get ready to do the bilge, and most likely that is a long way out at this time Skip the jell and go with Imron or Awlgrip which is far more superior to solvents and stains because jell will and does stain !! Just a word of mention that when doing the bilge with these paints , three to four coats & one after another per side using a brush , paint , tack ,paint , tack ,paint , tack paint let dry do the other side tomorrow .

[fixxxer22]

Thanks guys! also autozone carries 3m resin and hardener... Any good?

[Offshore Ginger]

Thanks guys! also autozone carries 3m resin and hardener... Any good? Is there resin Poly , Vinyl , or GP resin and are you sure you want to go with that other then Epoxy which will give you more work time with no stank and 9 times out of 10 the only reason why most people stick with Poly or Vinyl is because they are afraid of change .

[fixxxer22]

I will look for the epoxy. It is said to be expensive above but i do not have a huge ammount to cover. Any places that are not web sites that i should take a look at?

[Offshore Ginger]

I will look for the epoxy. It is said to be expensive above but i do not have a huge ammount to cover. Any places that are not web sites that i should take a look at? TRIM'D UP ,gave you a great site for those on a buget http://www.uscomposites.com/specialty.html

[fixxxer22]

Yeah i posted first and looked at that site later. I will go with them. Any tricks to ensure a good bond and a job well done?

[Offshore Ginger]

I will look for the epoxy. It is said to be expensive above but i do not have a huge ammount to cover. Any places that are not web sites that i should take a look at?To tell you the truth the best prices are on the web sites unless you know someone who can get you a better deal . All i have to say is try to show some pics of the work you feel that needs to be done , take your time and cut out all of the rotted wood , buy a Tyvak suit and get ready to grind using 24 or36 grit and hopefully after you have the stringer's out and there is no more rot any where you can get ready to laminate your stringer's back in after everything is prepped and ready to rock . Trust me it will be a walk in the park , after all is said and done...............

[jeffswav]

Yea, like Artie OG said, get a tyvek or similar suite. Get some chemical resistant rubber gloves. Get a resporator not a dust mask, mine was $20. Of course you need safty goggles not glasses. I used a air hammer, rotory tool, DA and of course the air compressor. It is a big mess that is why the pro's get paid well to do it.

[Chris]

One of the greatest areas of concern is secondary bonding- getting new resin to adhere to old resin. A trick an old timer showed me years ago is to soak the surface in MEK. This slightly softens the cured resin and gives the new resin better bite.

Just like paint, your surface needs to be completely clean and free of any grease or oils.

On prep, grind back as far as you can, within reason. Extra tabbing- both in plys and width- never hurt. There's a reason what you had rotted- try and figure out why and address it. For example- many Cigarette 35's end up with rotten transoms and stringers. This is often because one of the trim tab bolts is a lag screw, screwed into the end of a stringer. If the tabs are removed and that screw is not properly resealed, you're going to have problems.

I concur on Awlgrip. It's tough and won't stain. If there are flat areas you stand on, you can sprinkle some 24 grit aluminum oxide on the first wet coat and get a good non-skid surface.

[Chris]

One more thing- gel coat won't stick to epoxy.

[Trim'd Up]

After using epoxy, that's all I will use. More controllable work times with different hardeners and NO FUMES! The only down sides are cost and it is a little harder to wet out because of the viscosity. The 635 resin from US composites isn't to bad on either accout though.

[fixxxer22]

One of the greatest areas of concern is secondary bonding- getting new resin to adhere to old resin. A trick an old timer showed me years ago is to soak the surface in MEK. This slightly softens the cured resin and gives the new resin better bite.

Just like paint, your surface needs to be completely clean and free of any grease or oils.

On prep, grind back as far as you can, within reason. Extra tabbing- both in plys and width- never hurt. There's a reason what you had rotted- try and figure out why and address it. For example- many Cigarette 35's end up with rotten transoms and stringers. This is often because one of the trim tab bolts is a lag screw, screwed into the end of a stringer. If the tabs are removed and that screw is not properly resealed, you're going to have problems.

I concur on Awlgrip. It's tough and won't stain. If there are flat areas you stand on, you can sprinkle some 24 grit aluminum oxide on the first wet coat and get a good non-skid surface.

I found the issue. The engine mounts are drilled and lagged into the stringer. the stringer has no drain and water will sit on the side until it spills over or into the open lag hole of the engine mount. i am going to install drains so it can reach the bildge. all last year i would shop vac it out after every day out on the river. the thing is that it will not have water on those sides of the stringer unless we are diving in and out of the boat.

i use my boat and we jump off of it and get back on the sundeck soaking and jump in again. the water drains down and gets stuck o either side of the stringer and does not make it to the bildge. also i tore a shift boot 2 years ago in the ozarks and some flaky resin got caught in the bldge pump. there was a good ammount of water over both stringers and i am sure that was the worst of the water intrustion. The stringeres are new and doubled in the engine bay with micro-lam. just need to glass them now. the hull beneath the stringers was hard as a rock. there are no signs of water intrustion in the transom. and i do not have tabs or hydraulic steering that could possibly also let water in. I took out the exhaust tips and re-sealed them in the transom.

Baja really just smeared that resing and mat around. makes me a frown a little. also they did not paint all the way up the transom. it is pink in color. so i want to paint the transom as well (inside)

[Chris]

While you're in there, you might want to consider ditching that pad mount and going to an offshore mount. Not very expensive or hard to do. But you'll get a ton more strength and rigidity- especially if you're moving up in power. The only trick is you'll have to align the engine to the drive gimbal with an alignment tool. No big deal though.

[Chris]

One other thing- those stringers should be set in putty before you start glassing them in. The putty bridges gaps and gives you strength. You can't have voids between themand the hull.

And as "waterproof" as the new material purported to be, nothing on a boat is waterproof. For insurance, they can be wrapped in a layer of cloth and resin before installation. You're pretty much just tabbing them in at that point so some work can be done outside the boat.

[Knot 4 Me]

If you are getting the sunpad soaking wet all the time, you might also have to address rot issues with the wood under it at some point. Best to keep the water on the swim platform and no further into the boat if at all possible. And I agree with Chris that now is the perfect time to switch to aluminum L-angles for front motor mounts.

[fixxxer22]

http://www.cpperformance.com/SearchResult.aspx?CategoryID=429 like these at the top of the page?

and the stringers were set with glue to span the voids. not sure if it is the best way to do it but ummm... that is how i did it.

[Chris]

http://www.cpperformance.com/SearchResult.aspx?CategoryID=429 like these at the top of the page?

and the stringers were set with glue to span the voids. not sure if it is the best way to do it but ummm... that is how i did it.

In the middle of the page you'll see the Hardin mounts- big piece of tube with flanges on each side. These span between your stringers. You attach them with ordinary aluminum angle- typically 3/8" thickness. You put the mount on the engine, set the engine in place, engaging the tailstock, then you mount the angles to the stringers with thru-bolts. Then you position up-and-down/left-to-right to get alignment, then drill the angle. Depending on how the mount fits between the stringers, you may be able to use 3" angle, or you may have to go as large as 6".

Doing this ties the engine directly to the stringers and cuts out the flex that can cause everything from premature u-joint and gimble failures to structural cracking and even an engine ripping loose of the mounts.

As far as setting the stringers, you need a full and complet contacted bond with the bottom. If not, you'll get breakage in the non-supported areas. Tiny voids aren't going to be a problem. Large spans are. What kind of "glue" did you use?

[fixxxer22]

subfloor PL400 the good synthetic stuff.

[Chris]

That should be fine. Most likely overkill ;)

[Offshore Ginger]

While you're in there, you might want to consider ditching that pad mount and going to an offshore mount. Not very expensive or hard to do. But you'll get a ton more strength and rigidity- especially if you're moving up in power. The only trick is you'll have to align the engine to the drive gimbal with an alignment tool. No big deal though. I also agree on the mount .

[Offshore Ginger]

http://www.cpperformance.com/SearchResult.aspx?CategoryID=429 like these at the top of the page?

and the stringers were set with glue to span the voids. not sure if it is the best way to do it but ummm... that is how i did it. Most Boat Co's that i have worked for have used a putty made from resin and cabosil to fill the voids and along the span of the stringer which will give you a good bond and provide a nice radius so your fabric can roll out creating a better lay up with less chance of air and do not forget to round the edges on top of the stringer's either by sanding or using a router which will let your fabric rollover the top nice and smooth with no chance of air or gaps because of sharp edges .

[fixxxer22]

Most Boat Co's that i have worked for have used a putty made from resin and cabosil to fill the voids and along the span of the stringer which will give you a good bond and provide a nice radius so your fabric can roll out creating a better lay up with less chance of air and do not forget to round the edges on top of the stringer's either by sanding or using a router which will let your fabric rollover the top nice and smooth with no chance of air or gaps because of sharp edges .

good tip glad to know that. Makes sense.

[fixxxer22]

Ok, here is a little before and after i did not submit photos of the construction due to the fact that the camera always seems to be in my woman's possession.

And before you comment.... The stringers were mad eout of marine grade wood and micro-lam which is superior to any marine grade wood (it was the sealed stuff) also you will see the foam box on the starboard. all that was inside was foam and it holds batteries on top. the box did not have any mat or resin on it just jel coat. It is not structural to the hull, it did not even tie into the floor. the port side had mat and resin on it. i think my boat was built on either a monday or friday. also the crapet went back into the bildge to cover the crap job done. so i used in that area, particle board (cruisfy me!) also it seems that they used the extra pink "lanta" paint from my stripes on the exterior to paint my bildge which is just queer to me. I did my best and learned alot from you all here. I am a dealership tech i like to make my work easier that is whey the gimbal ring and such is still in. I also used poly resin due to the price i get from a paint store for our bodyshop which is under $50.00 a gallon with hardner and no shipping. same with the gel. It was $10 a quart

I am so happy i took this job on myself. in a climate controlled garage and with nothing but time. so here goes...

[phragle]

if you are going to use epoxy, a large diameter shallow container will give you longer pot life than a small diameter deep container.. I.E. use some old tuperware instead o a cup....

[phragle]

and radius the top edges of the new stringers(round them off) the new glass will go around a rounded edge much better than a sharp edge, same with the bottom of the new stringer, mix some filler with some resin and fillet down the base of the stringer like caulking a windowjust a little bigger fillet.

[cigdaze]

if you are going to use epoxy, a large diameter shallow container will give you longer pot life than a small diameter deep container.. I.E. use some old tuperware instead o a cup....

Exactly. It's an exothermic reaction. Let it breathe. Once it gets hot, it will cure quick.

[fixxxer22]

I am confused... I am done... does it look that bad? Those stringers are doube the width of the factory and the pink is gone. I rounded the stringers and used polyester resin like i said above. I think there may be a glitch in the site.

[fixxxer22]

This was showing before and after gel. The major wood work was done allready and glassed in. The camera however, seems to always be with my girl. so the pics you get are my later construction photos. you would have barfed anyways with the sight of all the rotten wood.

[phragle]

My bad, didnt see the 2nd page.

[jeffswav]

Nice job, its not that hard to remove the transom assembly. Then you can seal up the hole while you have it apart. Every hole and opening is sealed on mine now. I like the way you did the drain holes, where did you come up with that idea? :sifone: Looks like you are almost ready to put the mechanicals back in. Tell your wife to get here own camera you have a project going on here!! :D

[fixxxer22]

Nice job, its not that hard to remove the transom assembly. Then you can seal up the hole while you have it apart. Every hole and opening is sealed on mine now. I like the way you did the drain holes, where did you come up with that idea? :sifone: Looks like you are almost ready to put the mechanicals back in. Tell your wife to get here own camera you have a projecect going on here!! :D

I ground off so much silecone off the transom and also came acros a point where there was an air bubble in the mat and patched it. all was hard and dry. i dont have tabs so, i hope my chances are less to have a bad transom.

I am a tech. If i can leave it in or bungee it up i will do it. I am so grateful for the help i have got from this site and so glad i could take the time and do it myself.

And Jeff, I think i got the drain idea when i was asleep. I have the most mind activity then :sifone: I kidd, I was so happy to watch them work when i scrubbed the bildge down before gel. I was happy you gave me the idea. But mine are cooler:cheers2:

[bajabob 718]

Nice job, its not that hard to remove the transom assembly. Then you can seal up the hole while you have it apart. Every hole and opening is sealed on mine now. I like the way you did the drain holes, where did you come up with that idea? :sifone: Looks like you are almost ready to put the mechanicals back in. Tell your wife to get here own camera you have a project going on here!! :D i agree with jeff take thetransom assembly off its easy your rigth there now i did mine and the wood had nothing on it from baja you have 8 bolts and it comes rigth out . good luck

[Knot 4 Me]

Nice job, its not that hard to remove the transom assembly. Then you can seal up the hole while you have it apart. Every hole and opening is sealed on mine now. I like the way you did the drain holes, where did you come up with that idea? :sifone: Looks like you are almost ready to put the mechanicals back in. Tell your wife to get here own camera you have a project going on here!! :DI agree. You got the motor out so remove that transom assembly and inspect the opening.

[US1Fountain]

I agree. You got the motor out so remove that transom assembly and inspect the opening.


I disagree. He might not like what he might find. No looky=no issues. :)

Baja skimped when it came to sealing exposed wood.

[Knot 4 Me]

I disagree. He might not like what he might find. No looky=no issues. :)

Baja skimped when it came to sealing exposed wood.Good point. ;)

[fixxxer22]

I hope to find nothing.... I am a little dissapointed in the construction of my boat. Or it was built on a monday morning or a friday afternoon. But you get what you pay for.

[insanity]

I hope to find nothing.... I am a little dissapointed in the construction of my boat. Or it was built on a monday morning or a friday afternoon. But you get what you pay for.

I see your point, and as I had to take my 240 down to the hull and still rebuilding everything due to rot, feel your pain.

But a point to consider, your boat is 17 years old (mine is 22), honestly how long did Baja really plan on them being around? How many of us are driving cars that old? Granted during the demo phase on mine, it was obvious that just a little bit more attention to detail would have prevented the whole mess. However I'm guessing trying to get some dude getting paid as little as possible to lay-up boats all day, to give a crap...is a tall order...:ack2:

[fixxxer22]

I see your point, and as I had to take my 240 down to the hull and still rebuilding everything due to rot, feel your pain.

But a point to consider, your boat is 17 years old (mine is 22), honestly how long did Baja really plan on them being around? How many of us are driving cars that old? Granted during the demo phase on mine, it was obvious that just a little bit more attention to detail would have prevented the whole mess. However I'm guessing trying to get some dude getting paid as little as possible to lay-up boats all day, to give a crap...is a tall order...:ack2:

I have not looked at it in that sense. I hope to find no rot in the transom. I know why the stingers were rotten... There were no drains and when the water would spill over into the bildge it would enter the lag bolt holes in the engine stringers. It was neat watching my drains working when i was washing the bildge down. I will let you guys know what i see when i remove the transom assy. hopefully i can get the camera for that.