Technical Info and Hull Designs

[endeavor1]

:reddevil:I thought we may need a dedicated thread:sifone:

[endeavor1]

Just want to make sure that proper credit is given where due, the chines are what made the BT's maintain a slow speed crawl, and that idea was from us. It acounted for roughly 80% of the fix. I know Steve has had alot of input with props and x-dimension, but I just want to make sure that credit goes where it is due for the implemented hull mods.

The filling in of the notch helps, but dropping the chines essiantially reduces deadrise and make the back part of the boat flatter. Not only does it go faster because of the better angle of attack from more lift from the chines, but it is more stable as well because the back portion of the boat is essiantially flatter. It gives the boat a bigger footprint to sit on.

In the first pic, here is a rendering giving an idea of what the chines of the first generation 46's looked looked like (what Endeavor has). The 2nd pic is the 2nd generation BT's (what John P has), where they had added some strakes just below the chines. The filling/dropping of the chines though was the biggest help and addition to the adding of the strakes. You can see how much material was added and how much lift and stability that will improve.
Attached Thumbnails

[endeavor1]

The bravo to arneson in short is not just a bolt on...... you have to reglass the transom and possibly fill in the notch, move the motors around. It's about the same work as putting on 6's, and 6's will handle more power than the arneson conversion (asd6's and 7's). Also, the bravo conversion from arneson has a deep skeg on it. Not sure about the asd 8-10's...... Those either have skegs or fins on the sides.

Also, we have Bam and Huber trannies. We think we like the bams better because they have a deeper sump, and if the pump looses pressure, the bams recover more quickly.

[endeavor1]

Damn Jason, you are quick. I didn't even see you come in to my shop and do all that glass work on my hull last night. Next time though, put on some #6's and 1800 hp engines!!!!

[Coolerman]

:reddevil:I thought we may need a dedicated thread:sifone:

:smash::sifone:

[spiker]

Here is the transom of mine

[spiker]

one wrong one on previous post

[Rik]

The bravo to arneson in short is not just a bolt on...... you have to reglass the transom and possibly fill in the notch, move the motors around. It's about the same work as putting on 6's, and 6's will handle more power than the arneson conversion (asd6's and 7's). Also, the bravo conversion from arneson has a deep skeg on it. Not sure about the asd 8-10's...... Those either have skegs or fins on the sides.

Also, we have Bam and Huber trannies. We think we like the bams better because they have a deeper sump, and if the pump looses pressure, the bams recover more quickly.

One does not have to glass the transom to install the "Arneson Bravo Conversion Kit". The engines will stay in the same relative location as they were with the Bravos. The BT hull has a 'Built in Standoff box" according to them and this might make things a bit different but as a general rule things stay pretty much the same.

The only time a notch becomes an issue is on a stagger and the notch itself does not need to be filled in, just the area where the drive mounts, and this is smaller than you think.

As for power, yes the #6 Merc has a larger hp rating than our "Arneson Bravo Conversion Kit" does but you are comparing two different things. We have a drive that has a higher rating that the #6 Merc, our ASD8 drive units. Compare the "Arneson Bravo Conversion Kit" to the capacity of the Bravo and the Bravo derivatives for a more apple to apple comparison.

Bigger skeg apparently is a benefit as Merc just increased the size of theirs.

[BDARCHER]

Looks to me like the new mods would make the boat land hard in the bigger water offshore. Maybe OK for a lake boat. Just my 2 cents. Bobby

[Coolerman]

Looks to me like the new mods would make the boat land hard in the bigger water offshore. Maybe OK for a lake boat. Just my 2 cents. Bobby

It will fly straighter/more level, but since it runs flatter, it will knife through waves a bit better in the rough. But yes, it might land a little harder in the event you launch it real hard, but your chances of doing that are greatly reduced with the new hull mods.

[endeavor1]

One does not have to glass the transom to install the "Arneson Bravo Conversion Kit". The engines will stay in the same relative location as they were with the Bravos. The BT hull has a 'Built in Standoff box" according to them and this might make things a bit different but as a general rule things stay pretty much the same.

The only time a notch becomes an issue is on a stagger and the notch itself does not need to be filled in, just the area where the drive mounts, and this is smaller than you think.

As for power, yes the #6 Merc has a larger hp rating than our "Arneson Bravo Conversion Kit" does but you are comparing two different things. We have a drive that has a higher rating that the #6 Merc, our ASD8 drive units. Compare the "Arneson Bravo Conversion Kit" to the capacity of the Bravo and the Bravo derivatives for a more apple to apple comparison.

Bigger skeg apparently is a benefit as Merc just increased the size of theirs.


Rik, that was a copy and paste so i wanted to let you know it was in no way intended to slam ASD. I know we have spok about my previous 43 and now onto my 46. Bravo BT guys are all in the same boat, big machine, little drives and we are all trying to find the best solution to this issue. Bob Jenkins, owner of BT, had suggested that i try out some ASD conversions but i am just leery of the height vs notch issues. I m headed this weekend ot pick it up and will post pix of its transom.

Chris

[endeavor1]

:smash::sifone:

LOL, i know but it needed done :cheers2:

[Coolerman]

LOL, i know but it needed done :cheers2:

sadly it did :(

[endeavor1]

Everything is similar between the #6 and the #7M but different ranging from the steering geometry, rudder sizes, power ratings etc.. The #7M replaced the #6 Arneson.
__________________
http://www.arneson-industries.com/

[Coolerman]

1. Current steps on the 460 hull
2. Comparision btw our 43 (left side) and a stock one (right side)
3. More pics of mods of our 43
4. Turndowns we added on our center section
5. More pics of our bottom mods
6. Back section of the current 460 hull. The red line shows where the chines originally were.

[Coolerman]

1. 1st generation 460 and placement of the chines.
2. 2nd generation 460 and how strakes were added just below the chines
3. 3rd generation 460 where the chines were almost dropped to the level of the strakes that were added on the 2nd generation. (note, the 3rd generation hull had the notch filled in as well)
4. Spikers 3rd generation hull with the notch left in it because it's a higher speed hull.
5. Another mod we are going to try is cutting off 5-10' of the strake pointed out in this pic (the 460 is pictured here, but the 43 has this same strake as well). We hope it will help with the slight porpoise btw 70-90, and also, if you hit a small wake at 120+mph, hopefully you will have less of a chance of sending the boat into orbit.

[endeavor1]

1. 1st generation 460 and placement of the chines.
2. 2nd generation 460 and how strakes were added just below the chines
3. 3rd generation 460 where the chines were almost dropped to the level of the strakes that were added on the 2nd generation. (note, the 3rd generation hull had the notch filled in as well)
4. Spikers 3rd generation hull with the notch left in it because it's a higher speed hull.
5. Another mod we are going to try is cutting off 5-10' of the strake pointed out in this pic (the 460 is pictured here, but the 43 has this same strake as well). We hope it will help with the slight porpoise btw 70-90, and also, if you hit a small wake at 120+mph, hopefully you will have less of a chance of sending the boat into orbit.

orbit isn't always bad. :sifone:

[endeavor1]

1. 1st generation 460 and placement of the chines.
2. 2nd generation 460 and how strakes were added just below the chines
3. 3rd generation 460 where the chines were almost dropped to the level of the strakes that were added on the 2nd generation. (note, the 3rd generation hull had the notch filled in as well)
4. Spikers 3rd generation hull with the notch left in it because it's a higher speed hull.
5. Another mod we are going to try is cutting off 5-10' of the strake pointed out in this pic (the 460 is pictured here, but the 43 has this same strake as well). We hope it will help with the slight porpoise btw 70-90, and also, if you hit a small wake at 120+mph, hopefully you will have less of a chance of sending the boat into orbit.

orbit isn't always bad. :sifone:

[thlwl]

Damn, I need to do that to mine too incase I hit a small wake at 120+mph!!!!!

[Coolerman]

Damn, I need to do that to mine too incase I hit a small wake at 120+mph!!!!!

lol :driving: Just for reference if you decide to get one with stupid big power! :D

[BDARCHER]

lol :driving: Just for reference if you decide to get one with stupid big power! :D

This would be some nice stupid big power in a BT. What do you guys think a BT would run with the MERC 1350s. Man I like Turbocharged boats. Id turbo the BT like i did my Superboat. But those poor XRs would puk :sifone:
Bobby

[John P]

Jason did you do these mod's one at a time or not.
Which one helped the most with the rolling over below 40mph.
Question my k planes are 18" long are they the 280's?
Here a few shots I had of the boat it looks like the latest bottom with exception to not having the bottom not filled in under the center drive or is there even more?
And if one was to fill that in what would be the first thing I would notice?



56445

56446

56447

[Ratickle]

This would be some nice stupid big power in a BT. What do you guys think a BT would run with the MERC 1350s. Man I like Turbocharged boats. Id turbo the BT like i did my Superboat. But those poor XRs would puk :sifone:
Bobby

I'm still trying to locate the Terminator BT. Can't find it anywhere.

[Ratickle]

Damn, I need to do that to mine too incase I hit a small wake at 120+mph!!!!!


lol :driving: Just for reference if you decide to get one with stupid big power! :D

Me too......:sifone:

[Coolerman]

Jason did you do these mod's one at a time or not.
Which one helped the most with the rolling over below 40mph.
Question my k planes are 18" long are they the 280's?
Here a few shots I had of the boat it looks like the latest bottom with exception to not having the bottom not filled in under the center drive or is there even more?
And if one was to fill that in what would be the first thing I would notice?



56445

56446

56447

Hey John, the mods were done 1 at a time. Your boat would be the 2nd generation hull with the smaller steps, and the chines are not dropped.

The pics below shows what you would do to drop the chines.

Dropping the chines is the biggest thing for stability below 40. Essentially by dropping the chines, you are giving the back section of the boat less deadrise which helps stability. Also, you are giving it more transom lift, which helps the boat run at a little bit better angle of attack, and it might give you a few more mph up top as well as help you get out of the hole a bit better.

I don't know the exact specs on the 280s vs 380's..... In the pics it looks like you have 280's, but I didn't think they were 18" long. If you could get a better top pic view of the tabs, I or somebody else would be able to tell you.

[Coolerman]

This would be some nice stupid big power in a BT. What do you guys think a BT would run with the MERC 1350s. Man I like Turbocharged boats. Id turbo the BT like i did my Superboat. But those poor XRs would puk :sifone:
Bobby

Those motors are huge! :cheers2:

[Ratickle]

Hey John, the mods were done 1 at a time. Your boat would be the 2nd generation hull with the smaller steps, and the chines are not dropped.

The pics below shows what you would do to drop the chines.

Dropping the chines is the biggest thing for stability below 40. Essentially by dropping the chines, you are giving the back section of the boat less deadrise which helps stability. Also, you are giving it more transom lift, which helps the boat run at a little bit better angle of attack, and it might give you a few more mph up top as well as help you get out of the hole a bit better.

I don't know the exact specs on the 280s vs 380's..... In the pics it looks like you have 280's, but I didn't think they were 18" long. If you could get a better top pic view of the tabs, I or somebody else would be able to tell you.

150's are 12", 280's are 19.25", 380's are 30"

[John P]

Hey John, the mods were done 1 at a time. Your boat would be the 2nd generation hull with the smaller steps, and the chines are not dropped.

The pics below shows what you would do to drop the chines.

Dropping the chines is the biggest thing for stability below 40. Essentially by dropping the chines, you are giving the back section of the boat less deadrise which helps stability. Also, you are giving it more transom lift, which helps the boat run at a little bit better angle of attack, and it might give you a few more mph up top as well as help you get out of the hole a bit better.

I don't know the exact specs on the 280s vs 380's..... In the pics it looks like you have 280's, but I didn't think they were 18" long. If you could get a better top pic view of the tabs, I or somebody else would be able to tell you.

Jason nice speaking with you yesterday. I'm going to put on a set of 380 tabs on before I drop the chines down, so I will keep everyone posted as to the results.
Ordered them yesterday so hopefully it will help with the rolling over at low speeds.

[thlwl]

John P., the 380's helped my boat a lot. Make sure they clear your props when trimmed up and turning the drives.

[John P]

John P., the 380's helped my boat a lot. Make sure they clear your props when trimmed up and turning the drives.

Glad to hear, I make sure and check that THANKS.

[Shallow Minded]

I bet the 380's will make a huge difference. If not, just run it WFO, John! Ha, keep us posted, I'll be curious to hear the results.

[John P]

I bet the 380's will make a huge difference. If not, just run it WFO, John! Ha, keep us posted, I'll be curious to hear the results.

Its been awhile how has winter treated you, we can't wait to hit the water.

[Coolerman]

Jason nice speaking with you yesterday. I'm going to put on a set of 380 tabs on before I drop the chines down, so I will keep everyone posted as to the results.
Ordered them yesterday so hopefully it will help with the rolling over at low speeds.

You had the boat out yet?

[John P]

No, most likely a couple weeks yet.

[endeavor1]

No, most likely a couple weeks yet.

Harbor hop???

[John P]

Harbor hop???

Depends on the weather we are talking about taking the bikes down instead of the BT.

[endeavor1]

Depends on the weather we are talking about taking the bikes down instead of the BT.

WTF, :willy_nilly:


Sax, hurry your boat along so you can make it. 3 weeks and counting :sifone:

[endeavor1]

FYI on mercury racing motors :willy_nilly:

[Coolerman]

Haha, hillarious dude.

Also, we aren't putting the motors back in the boat until the new coolers are done. We want to run them on the dyno.

[John P]

Just a update the 380 K planes are a must, the boat handled 100% better.

[endeavor1]

Just a update the 380 K planes are a must, the boat handled 100% better.

Glad to hear that.

[Coolerman]

Just a update the 380 K planes are a must, the boat handled 100% better.

glad to hear that they made a huge difference! any roll left at all?

[John P]

Yes just a little but as soon as I can I will fill in the chines.

[Coolerman]

John, you ever change the chines on your boat?

[endeavor1]

No