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Tommy Gun
03-01-2010, 11:45 PM
Nitrogen filled tires...BS or not? Pro's vs cons...lets hear'em.

phragle
03-01-2010, 11:52 PM
The only real difference is that Nitrogen is much more thermodynamically stable than regular air (which is 78% nitrogen). So it doesn't expand and contract with heat and cold. This allows for a slightly more consitant tire pressure but thats about it.

Ted
03-02-2010, 12:04 AM
Marketing gimmick, unless you are racing the car (and then you should check several times during the day) the advantages for a street car are nil.

sledge
03-02-2010, 12:13 AM
One more "real" difference is nitrogen molecules are larger than "air" molecules so there's less pressure seepage over time. The big plus with a pure gas fill is the lack of moisture. Ever run an air hose at a gas station? You could confuse it with a water hose. Moisture is bad. The "con" with a nitro fill - what happens when you need some pressure, and you're nowhere near a nitrogen tank?

PM203
03-02-2010, 12:37 AM
Pressure stays more consistent with fluctuating temperatures. Less likely to set off a tire pressure monitor with temp changes. Other than that, alot of hype.

TOMTBONE
03-02-2010, 12:42 AM
Pressure stays more consistent with fluctuating temperatures. Less likely to set off a tire pressure monitor with temp changes. Other than that, alot of hype.

but it is nice to keep the tire pressure monitors off:)

BOJOE2
03-02-2010, 01:08 AM
on my benz i had to go to nitrogen I kept having sensor going off on cold days now it never goes off

YoungPerformance
03-02-2010, 01:13 AM
Like was previously mentioned. If you need air and there are no Nitrogen filling stations around, then what? As far as I know, you are not supposed to mix air and N. To fill with N, the tire must be totally evactuated of air first. Just doesn't seem worth it to me. Air is pretty easy to find and it's really cheap.
Eddie

Buoy
03-02-2010, 01:49 AM
Air is pretty easy to find and it's really cheap.
Eddie

It'll always be easy to find, but just wait until someone figures out how to put a price tag on it...:rolleyes:

The whole bottled water thing comes to mind.

I may be onto something here:eek:
Eddie, it was half your idea, how do we market the air thing, I'll take you in as a partner at 25%:)

phragle
03-02-2010, 02:56 AM
75 cnts for 3 minutes of compressor time.....

Madpoodle
03-02-2010, 04:09 AM
On our delivery trucks it has cut down the low tire syndrome dramatically. Our first truck with it, an F150, went over a year before being needing topping off, as did my Mustang. I am converting my trailer tires (several hundred of em) to it next, supposed to help eliminate the internal dry rot..

rschap1
03-02-2010, 09:06 AM
Air is over 70% nitrogene anyways....

Brownie
03-02-2010, 09:38 AM
Space shuttle tires are full of nitrogen. Mad Poodle is full of .............

db71
03-02-2010, 10:29 AM
Have you guys never seen an oxygen bar. Yes they do exist and they do charge for air someone already beat you to it. On the tire thing I sell wheels and tires most of my competitors sell it I do not see the point. But it does help with tpms sensors and also a leak that air would leak out of nitrogen will not (bigger molecules) the other big advantage is moisture content (which was already stated). It would definatly help with dry rot.

Airpacker
03-02-2010, 10:35 AM
there was a great SAE paper I read on the subject as many of my customers were asking about it, I did a little research.

1) The fact that an uninflated tire actually has 14.5 ( approx) psi in it: atmospheric pressure means that there is still a large percentage of straight air in the tire when its inflated with nitrogen thus negating the anti corrosive aspects of the theory. It is dam nearly impossible to evacuate all air from a tire without pulling the tire off the rim bead therefore dam nearly impossible to inflate a tire with 100% pure nitrogen.

2) in order to meet the claims of being non corrosive, the nitrogen must be medical grade 100% pure. As little as 1% oxygen in the mix and it loses the anti corrosive properties.

3) non of the currently marketed commercial nitrogen generator tire inflation machines is capable of producing 100% pure nitrogen ( most are 80% pure or less ) so in essence, they are useless other than generating gross profit for the user.

4) any thing over 5% air in the tire greatly dimminishes the thermal stability of a nitrogen fill.

Conclusion, worthless to the average person. Profitable for the tire store and the machine manufacturer.

Knot 4 Me
03-02-2010, 10:40 AM
I tell the tire stores I don't care what they pump in my tires when they install them as long as it is free and they do not put those ugly green caps on my valve stems. And I prefer my oxygen flavored...

Geronimo36
03-02-2010, 12:01 PM
Have you guys never seen an oxygen bar. Yes they do exist and they do charge for air someone already beat you to it..

In Breckenridge those oxygen-bars were almost as common as the local coffee shop!!!:USA:

Trim'd Up
03-02-2010, 12:03 PM
I am going to use helium for weight reduction. I figure on the jeep with 37's it should pick up 10mpg. :D

Slandrew
03-02-2010, 12:57 PM
Did it on my wifes Jeep sensors all over the place with weather change wear on tire same MPG a touch better .I'd stick with air it's free.

VetteLT193
03-02-2010, 01:07 PM
on a good tire seal, i.e. new and near perfect, it helps. for the average joe it doesn't seem to do a whole lot.

I'd get it if it was free (like at Costco). if you need to fill up just use air after that.

It is supposed to help with the internal tire rot but what I found on my boat trailer (where the tires rot before tread is worn) is the wheels had slight corrosion around the lip so the air would seep out of the seal on the wheel to tire. It wasn't a bad leak but bad enough that nitrogen wasn't going to help. So I found myself topping them off with regular air every few weeks anyway so that great idea went out the window.

For car tires I don't currently have a car that I don't wear the tread out before the tire rots so that's a moot point. And checking air pressure is something I do once a week or every other week anyway. it isn't that hard to drag the compressor hose out of the garage.

Sea-Dated
03-02-2010, 01:17 PM
My Range Rover came with the green caps and Nitro filled tires. I had to get one topped off and the tire place did it for free. I asked him about what to do if it gets low again and there is no nitro around he said just put air in it. Not going to make a huge difference but will allow the pressure to fluctuate a little more.

My Rover has nitro and the wifes has air and with the temp changes we have had this winter her sensors have been going off every other week or so and mine have not gone off once since I had the tire topped off. More of a convenience thing if you ask me.

If they ever start charging for it though I am going to air.

Lubejobs42
03-02-2010, 03:33 PM
I've had it in several of my cars. My gas miliage doubled and i picked up 80 mph top end!:rolleyes:

No difference at all. I still need to add to my tires every other week. As far as i'm concerened, its a bunch of crap!

JupiterSunsation
03-02-2010, 03:54 PM
The county where I live got suckered into doing it on all their transit buses with the explanation it will increase fuel economy and tire wear. The local Toyota dealer who preaches no dealer fees, has a hotline to his cell phone etc. blasted them in the paper for wasting $78,000 in the program.......after his berating publically they discontinued the program!

BarChopper
03-02-2010, 03:55 PM
Alright...

Nitrogen is NOT a molecule. It is an element.

So there is not a difference in it's molecular size as comapred to filling tires with air. (if anything it is actually smaller than some of the other elements) Nitrogen has a smaller atomic mass than Oxygen and Argon..... However, the carbon molecule chains that are in the air Pollutants, and dioxide has larger masses...so I would think the ONLY thing leaking out faster would be Hydrogen, Hellium, (smaller Atoms)and such that is occurring naturally in the air mixture.

JupiterSunsation
03-02-2010, 03:57 PM
Alright...

Nitrogen is NOT a molecule. It is an element.

So there is not a difference in it's molecular size as comapred to filling tires with air. (if anything it is actually smaller than some of the other elements) Nitrogen has a smaller atomic mass than Oxygen and Argon..... However, the carbon molecule chains that are in the air Pollutants, and dioxide has larger masses...so I would think the ONLY thing leaking out faster would be Hydrogen, Hellium, (smaller Atoms)and such that is occurring naturally in the air mixture.


You have been here almost a year and this is the thread you jump in on? Good info there, welcome to the board! :D

T2x
03-02-2010, 04:47 PM
A number of years ago I watched as a manager in a truck terminal in Kansas City sent a newly transferred employee from a southern state out on a mission to get "pink air" for his car tires. The manager explained to the rookie that in colder climates people routinely used "pink air" for better traction in snow and ice. As instructed the young man went out to purchase "pink air". When he returned hours later and very frustrated and confused, he plaintively exclaimed that he had tried at least a dozen gas stations, tire stores and auto parts suppliers with no luck. The manager didn't blink and replied...."Did I say "pink air"??? I meant "orange air"....I'm so color blind!.

I suggest that you all fill your tires with gel.

T2x

hotjava66
03-02-2010, 05:48 PM
I had nitrogen filled tires on my SS when I got it new. A year later I needed to top them off cause the alarm kept going off. When I tried to remove those fancy green caps, they were fused to the valve stem because they were aluminum and the stem it steel or vice versa dont remember. After soaking them in lube and generally wasting my time I got 2 off, the other 2 snapped the valve stems off. Unfortunately the sensor for the tire pressure is in the valve stem and costs somewhere around 100 dollars plus installation/mount dismount. They wouldnt cover it because the caps were wrong, and I didnt even put them on, it came that way. It was an expensive lesson and im done with nitrogen.

Lee
03-02-2010, 05:53 PM
It'll always be easy to find, but just wait until someone figures out how to put a price tag on it...:rolleyes:

The whole bottled water thing comes to mind.

I may be onto something here:eek:
Eddie, it was half your idea, how do we market the air thing, I'll take you in as a partner at 25%:)

Mel Brooks beat you to it.:sifone::sifone:

Airpacker
03-02-2010, 05:56 PM
A number of years ago I watched as a manager in a truck terminal in Kansas City sent a newly transferred employee from a southern state out on a mission to get "pink air" for his car tires. The manager explained to the rookie that in colder climates people routinely used "pink air" for better traction in snow and ice. As instructed the young man went out to purchase "pink air". When he returned hours later and very frustrated and confused, he plaintively exclaimed that he had tried at least a dozen gas stations, tire stores and auto parts suppliers with no luck. The manager didn't blink and replied...."Did I say "pink air"??? I meant "orange air"....I'm so color blind!.

I suggest that you all fill your tires with gel.

T2x

LOL, my grandad used to send the ship wright apprentices for a bucket of blue steam :)

Chris
03-02-2010, 07:27 PM
Alright...

Nitrogen is NOT a molecule. It is an element.

.

Nitrogen certainly is an element. But it, like oxygen, occurs in its elemental state very rarely. In fact, less frequently than oxygen. When we're talking about nitrogen, we're talking about N2, which is a molecule. N2 is larger than O2.

old377guy
03-02-2010, 07:53 PM
I am going to use helium for weight reduction. I figure on the jeep with 37's it should pick up 10mpg. :D

DANG you for beating me to it,!!!!!:sifone:

Chris
03-02-2010, 07:58 PM
I had a guy once telling me how strong his wife was. His example was that she changed her own flat. He told me the spare weighed over 60 lbs. 20 for the tire, ten for the wheel and 30 lbs of air. With a straight face.

Love Machine
03-02-2010, 08:17 PM
Mel Brooks beat you to it.:sifone::sifone:

May the Schwartz be with you!:bump:

Love Machine
03-02-2010, 08:27 PM
No one has talked about CO2. Unfortunately, I don't know the scientific mumbo jumbo behind using it, but I assume it's a bigger molecule than O2.

I buy CO2 bottles to power air tools and inflate tires while out 4wheeling or in the driveway and to blow out my dock water line (very portable). Since it's in liquid form in the bottle, it equates to more gas volume than a normal air tank. I love the set up. You could install it on a boat to run tools and blow up water toys and Maryland Mark's blow up doll! :sifone:

Does anyone know how using CO2 compares to O2 or N2?

Real Baja
03-02-2010, 08:34 PM
Fill um with liquid nitrogen, keeps tires, brakes, and bearings very cool.:willy_nilly:

Wobble
03-02-2010, 09:44 PM
Nitrogen certainly is an element. But it, like oxygen, occurs in its elemental state very rarely. In fact, less frequently than oxygen. When we're talking about nitrogen, we're talking about N2, which is a molecule. N2 is larger than O2.

This is correct and that is why a nitrogen inflated tire will stay up longet than an air inflated tire, relatively speaking.

Here is a report from a left leaning and therefore totally unreliable source:sifone::sifone:

http://blogs.consumerreports.org/cars/2007/10/tires-nitrogen-.html

07DominatorSS
03-02-2010, 11:12 PM
Like was previously mentioned. If you need air and there are no Nitrogen filling stations around, then what? As far as I know, you are not supposed to mix air and N. To fill with N, the tire must be totally evactuated of air first. Just doesn't seem worth it to me. Air is pretty easy to find and it's really cheap.
Eddie

You can absolutely mix the two! You're just not going to have the complete benefit of pure nitrogen after you do, simple as that.

rainmn
03-03-2010, 12:24 AM
I run a custom blend in my tires of 78% nitrogen / 21% oxygen. :sifone:

WARPARTY36
03-03-2010, 12:39 AM
I run a custom blend in my tires of 78% nitrogen / 21% oxygen. :sifone:

So what's the other 1%:willy_nilly:

YoungPerformance
03-03-2010, 03:10 AM
So what's the other 1%:willy_nilly:

Poo.

cigdaze
03-03-2010, 09:11 AM
So what's the other 1%:willy_nilly:

Al Gore's hot air.

cigdaze
03-03-2010, 09:11 AM
Nitrogen certainly is an element. But it, like oxygen, occurs in its elemental state very rarely. In fact, less frequently than oxygen. When we're talking about nitrogen, we're talking about N2, which is a molecule. N2 is larger than O2.

Yes, indeed.

T2x
03-03-2010, 10:12 AM
No one has talked about CO2. Unfortunately, I don't know the scientific mumbo jumbo behind using it, but I assume it's a bigger molecule than O2.

I buy CO2 bottles to power air tools and inflate tires while out 4wheeling or in the driveway and to blow out my dock water line (very portable). Since it's in liquid form in the bottle, it equates to more gas volume than a normal air tank. I love the set up. You could install it on a boat to run tools and blow up water toys and Maryland Mark's blow up doll! :sifone:

Does anyone know how using CO2 compares to O2 or N2?

That's old technology and illegal...according to Al Gore. You have simply created a "carbon footprint"....:D

Love Machine
03-03-2010, 12:06 PM
That's old technology and illegal...according to Al Gore. You have simply created a "carbon footprint"....:D

I guess we all should stop breathing too!

:sifone: smoking this fatty creates a footprint too!

:eek:

Dude! Sweet!
03-03-2010, 11:53 PM
I am going to use helium for weight reduction. I figure on the jeep with 37's it should pick up 10mpg. :D

One of my favorite guilty pleasures is annoying race engineers... And that old helium to reduce weight gag get's 'em every time! :sifone:

BarChopper
03-05-2010, 11:44 AM
Nitrogen certainly is an element. But it, like oxygen, occurs in its elemental state very rarely. In fact, less frequently than oxygen. When we're talking about nitrogen, we're talking about N2, which is a molecule. N2 is larger than O2.


I stand corrected sir. N2 is a molecule (known as an allotrope when a molecular chain is created using only one element). I do have a question for you however.

If N2 is two nitrogen atoms, and Nitrogen has an atomic number of 7 weight of 14.0067, and O2 is two oxygen atoms and has a atomic number of 8 and a mass of 16.000 how can the nitrogen molecule be bigger?? I am just asking here...not throwing pooh (of which I have no chemical knowledge)

I am thinking once again they use Nitrogen (PURE) to get rid of
a) The smaller elements in the 1% ..Hydrogen, hellium...blah blah
b) Get rid of the damaging effects of oxidation from the oxygen

What choo think??

Chris
03-05-2010, 01:19 PM
Well, I'm certainly no PhD in chemistry, but this is what I'm told

Because of the way the molecules bond in N2, they physically take up more space than O2. The number I'm told is 3%. That doesn't sound like much, but I guess it's enough.

The nitrogen tire fill people use the lessened leakage as their primary premise for using N2. That and less temperature sensitivity. They also claim that oxygen below 7% has no oxidizing effect.

Just as we're seeing in posts on this thread, some people believe it's benefitting them and others- not so much.

BarChopper
03-05-2010, 02:05 PM
Well I am going to take your explanation as gospel. :-) This is how rumors get started you know. LOL

Sir Knight "What else floats on water?"

Arthur "A Duck!"

Sir Knight "Who are you so wise in the ways of science?"

Arthur "I am Arthur King of the Britans"

Sir Knight "We shall use my largest scales!"

Heavyhauler
03-05-2010, 06:30 PM
This thread is full of hot air.

fixxxer22
03-05-2010, 07:32 PM
I stand corrected sir. N2 is a molecule (known as an allotrope when a molecular chain is created using only one element). I do have a question for you however.

If N2 is two nitrogen atoms, and Nitrogen has an atomic number of 7 weight of 14.0067, and O2 is two oxygen atoms and has a atomic number of 8 and a mass of 16.000 how can the nitrogen molecule be bigger?? I am just asking here...not throwing pooh (of which I have no chemical knowledge)

I am thinking once again they use Nitrogen (PURE) to get rid of
a) The smaller elements in the 1% ..Hydrogen, hellium...blah blah
b) Get rid of the damaging effects of oxidation from the oxygen

What choo think??

MY BRAIN HURTS!!!! SO MUCH THAT I AM SHOUTING VIA CAPS LOCK:cheers2::willy_nilly::confused: