Class 6 Rules Discussion

[sbracing]

Before the OPA rules meeting, Feb. 20, do any Class 6 teams have any input
on any rule changes or tweaks in our class. Let's bring them up now.

[Fast Shafts]

Good idea! I have a couple minor suggestions to keep it affordable:
1) Stock Bravo I
2) Must run on 93 octane or lower
3) Bravo or Mirage props
4) No setback boxes

Not a rule change but how about a discussion about tow package vs. paying back 3 places.

[Bilgerat]

Define Stock Bravo? Are we just suggesting no Konrad, or B-Max, or Imco, or are you thinking a std. lower unit profile?

By the way started in on our project the other day, but snow has thrown a wrench in the works.
Our drive is basically a stock XR.
Please keep me inline if there are any Class 6 specific Conference calls or anything.

[Fast Shafts]

Bilge,
I'm not against Konrads or XR's. Maybe I shouldn't have said stock Bravo I? I just think its a matter of time before someone shows up with a #6 if this isn't addressed. When someone does show up with a #6, it would keep most of the class 6 boats on their trailers. Just throwing this idea out there to keep class 6 affordable. Continue discussion....

[sbracing]

Batboats run Volvo drives.

Is there anyone now who would be effected by a pump fuel rule?

What will a prop rule accomplish?

[Fast Shafts]

I'm not against other drives, but when someone shows up with a $25,000 #6 what do we do? Just trying to keep class 6 affordable, by putting parameters on equipment.
The prop rule would also keep class 6 affordable. It keeps "one-off" expensive props out of the equation.
The pump fuel rule would also keep class 6 more affordable. This would prevent high compression engines from running expensive fuel.

[xlr8by]

The prop rule would make a #6 impossible to run due to prop selection.

[Wahoo 214]

Try to keep it really simple. What if you said something like 1.3 & 1.5 ratios and only two props for each ratio.

That's kind of like our SV class. We only need two props 30 and 31s.

[ricochet myk]

Why does it matter what you have for props or drives ? If you have a 550 H.P. limit and a breakout speed limit, that should just about say it all. I would be embarassed to show up with a $25,000 #6 with a 550 H.P. and a 70 MPH limit, but if your the type to go squirrel hunting with a .50 cal I can see why there would be a rule against it. Why isnt it the discretion of each team what is affordable, as long as speed and H.P. is adhered to ?Whats next $ limit on motors because someone will show up with fancy valve covers ? My $.02 Im still looking for a class. Thanks Mike

[phragle]

possible drive solution... nxt, #6 , trs have seperate transmissions... the bravo, bravo varients and volvo (I belive) the shifting is in the drive.. so simple rule..no seperate trannies... Not that I have any say in your class, just what I think is a simple solution..

[sbracing]

Why does it matter what you have for props or drives ? If you have a 550 H.P. limit and a breakout speed limit, that should just about say it all. I would be embarassed to show up with a $25,000 #6 with a 550 H.P. and a 70 MPH limit, but if your the type to go squirrel hunting with a .50 cal I can see why there would be a rule against it. Why isnt it the discretion of each team what is affordable, as long as speed and H.P. is adhered to ?Whats next $ limit on motors because someone will show up with fancy valve covers ? My $.02 Im still looking for a class. Thanks Mike

As it stands, the limit is not 550 HP. Smitty's comment was OPA would make a boat by boat decision on the HP to keep everyone even. I would not build a 550 HP motor before talking to Smitty.

[Fast Shafts]

The suggestions I brought up for discussion are to keep class 6 as affordable as possible. By keeping this affordable, it opens the door for more boats to give racing a try. Imagine how many Superboats, Bajas, Panteras, Velocitys etc. are out there in a stock configuration-all being able to fit into this class.
If one wants to do any modifications, class 5 is only 5 mph faster.
Some good points were/have been brought up.
How about tow money instead of prize money? Your thoughts? Discussion continues....

[sbracing]

The suggestions I brought up for discussion are to keep class 6 as affordable as possible. By keeping this affordable, it opens the door for more boats to give racing a try. Imagine how many Superboats, Bajas, Panteras, Velocitys etc. are out there in a stock configuration-all being able to fit into this class.
If one wants to do any modifications, class 5 is only 5 mph faster.
Some good points were/have been brought up.
How about tow money instead of prize money? Your thoughts? Discussion continues....

I personally think that "no entry fee" is the tow money. I am not opposed to
paying further back into the field, however.

The keys to keeping class 6 successful are affordability and fairness. We need to keep costs for the teams down, when possible,
as well as making it fair for all. Unfortunately, not every boat is going to be competitive, so we need to be careful about shifting rules to make this boat or that boat more competitive.

[Bilgerat]

Are there boats that could fit into six, that almost require a 5 blade prop to do it, or want one to accelerate? I think i like a prop rule? what are the pros and cons to this? Educate me.?

[Tyler Crockett]

[QUOTE=sbracing;430051]Batboats run Volvo drives.

Is there anyone now who would be effected by a pump fuel rule?



Yes ME !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Fast Shafts]

Bilge,
The reason I'd like to see props limited are cost. A used Bravo prop sells for 3-500.00 a used Hering starts at $2,500.
Bob

[Tyler Crockett]

I think we need to break Class 6 into separate parts.

Class 6 M for modified engines
Class 6 AS for almost stock.
Class 6 S for all stock
Class 6 SB for the smallblock boats
Class 6 HNW for the boats that Have Never Won
There were 5 boats in the class at most races last year this way everyone wins. :cheers2:

[THEJOKER]

Leave Tyler alone...he already threw a girl and a small block in the boat to give the other competitors a chance! HAHA

[Ratickle]

I think we need to break Class 6 into separate parts.

Class 6 M for modified engines
Class 6 AS for almost stock.
Class 6 S for all stock
Class 6 SB for the smallblock boats
Class 6 HNW for the boats that Have Never Won
There were 5 boats in the class at most races last year this way everyone wins. :cheers2:

Can we call that the Class 6 Super Vee Unlimited rule?????:sifone:


Class 6 rules are just fine. As is Class 5, 4, etc.

The only thing I waould like to see, is all orgs adopting the exact same GPS class rules. Then the expectations and boat improvements would always be towards an identical outcome.

[Ratickle]

Leave Tyler alone...he already threw a girl and a small block in the boat to give the other competitors a chance! HAHA

We had a smallblock here.....:sifone:

[THEJOKER]

We had a smallblock here.....:sifone:

Those look like wings and you don't have no girl!:driving:

[Tyler Crockett]

Rat if you look close you can just make you out under my spray.:driving:

[DrGaryDC]

Just keep it simple. Max cubic inches, speed, and no power adders.

[ricochet myk]

I second that ! as long as max cubes isnt 350 (im being sarcastic). The keep it simple philosophy sounds like a good idea. Mike

[sbracing]

Bilge,
The reason I'd like to see props limited are cost. A used Bravo prop sells for 3-500.00 a used Hering starts at $2,500.
Bob

What is to keep someone from getting a Bravo and having it labbed or tweaked? How would this be enforced?

I don't think we need a drive rule. The expense of a #6, if you could even install it on a 26' boat, outweighs the any benefit.

I also don't think we need a prop rule.

The pump fuel requirement is an interesting idea.

I'm concerned how OPA is going to enforce the horsepower rule. Which boat will be the baseline? If Bilgerat and I have a similiar hull, but he has 75 more
HP, do I need to catch up or does he need to tune down?

Anyone else have any constructive input?

[ricochet myk]

Would a horsepower to weight ratio make any sense ? or possibly a hull efficiency ratio to horspower ?

[ricochet myk]

Both Glenn and myself really want to run class 6, it just makes sense with a 24 pantera, but the pantera hull is nowhere as efficient as say a velocity or a stepped or vented hull, plus the weight is considerably different, so the pantera would suck with an equal h.p., On the other hand I can understand someone trying to run a stock boat would be frustrated seeing a monster h.p. motor . The h.p. to weight or hull efficiency to weight kind of makes sense. My $.02 thanks Mike

[Fast Shafts]

or we could leave well enough alone and base everything on the GPS.

[ricochet myk]

Fast Shafts, You do that and were in, :cheers2: end of discussion !!! mike

[Fast Shafts]

Rico,
Sooner or later, someone will show up with a blower and a #6. "Stepping down" has always been a problem in Offshore Racing. Back in the late 1970's guys started running 35' Cigarettes in Modified when they were really an Open class raceboat. Different times, but the same will happen unless parameters are placed.
Bob

[sbracing]

or we could leave well enough alone and base everything on the GPS.

By leaving well enough alone do you mean we keep the 500 HP rule??

[sbracing]

Rico,
Sooner or later, someone will show up with a blower and a #6. "Stepping down" has always been a problem in Offshore Racing. Back in the late 1970's guys started running 35' Cigarettes in Modified when they were really an Open class raceboat. Different times, but the same will happen unless parameters are placed.
Bob

The OPA rulebook does state that OPA will put a boat in the class it feels the boat belongs. I trust the OPA enough that your example would never happen.

I would think, also, that a horsepower limit of some sort would preclude it as well.

[sbracing]

Both Glenn and myself really want to run class 6, it just makes sense with a 24 pantera, but the pantera hull is nowhere as efficient as say a velocity or a stepped or vented hull, plus the weight is considerably different, so the pantera would suck with an equal h.p., On the other hand I can understand someone trying to run a stock boat would be frustrated seeing a monster h.p. motor . The h.p. to weight or hull efficiency to weight kind of makes sense. My $.02 thanks Mike

Smitty has said, in a previous post, exactly the issue you are presenting. The
trick now is figuring out the fairest way to implement it.

[p-f-e]

Right now we are working on a class 6 boat.. it's going to be good. :beatdeadhorse5:

[DrGaryDC]

Working with emotions and feelings wont work. Where does the line stop. There is talk about props, drives, etc. You can be very specific and even add no steps on the bottom for a class. Where does it end. If i was in charge, i would create simple rules

[Ratickle]

Rat if you look close you can just make you out under my spray.:driving:

Oops, :leaving:

[Ratickle]

Working with emotions and feelings wont work. Where does the line stop. There is talk about props, drives, etc. You can be very specific and even add no steps on the bottom for a class. Where does it end. If i was in charge, i would create simple rules

I believe, and Pat will have to step in for this year, when I chatted with POPRA last year I was told they will drive the boat. If it is too fast, you will not be in the slower class. In SBI, I believe if you break out, you will be moved up. In OPA, it's pretty much anything goes, just don't break out, and you're fine. Class 6 is the only one they are considering the exception to I believe. That is to make sure the boats with high horsepower do not step that far. (I think)

[Fast Shafts]

Since the rule meeting is less than 30 hrs away, is there any other input? Alot of this thread focused on the drives/props, what about setback boxes or 93 octane? I feel by keeping it affordable, it encourages participation and goes along with the rulebook's characterization of class 6 being "entry level".
Bob

[2TR]

No Race Fuel
No Blower motors
No Speed masters of any number
No Pouting.

Keep It Simple.

[Fast Shafts]

2TR,
I agree! I would make an exception/grandfather AKULA since he is running a blower (I think??). The best rule you came up with is the "NO POUTING"

[2TR]

2TR,
I agree! I would make an exception/grandfather AKULA since he is running a blower (I think??). The best rule you came up with is the "NO POUTING"

Only rule that ALULA needs to adapt is a scatter shield around his motor. So when that 1000 hr war horse lets loose I don't get smacked up side the head with a piston.

[Wazzup Racing]

Simple Rule..........Gimmie the keys. I'll let ya know where you are racing.

[sbracing]

Simple Rule..........Gimmie the keys. I'll let ya know where you are racing.

That's the ticket.

[2TR]

Simple Rule..........Gimmie the keys. I'll let ya know where you are racing.

Better you than Dean :ack2:

[p-f-e]

LEAVE IT ALONE ITS BRACKET RACING. NO RACE GAS:driving:

[Tyler Crockett]

Simple Rule..........Gimmie the keys. I'll let ya know where you are racing.




Me first ............

[2TR]

Seriously we need to know for sure whats allowed and whats not before we waste our time rigging for this.

[Fast Shafts]

Build it! Same rules as last year-no new parameters.

[AIR TIME]

Working with emotions and feelings wont work. Where does the line stop. There is talk about props, drives, etc. You can be very specific and even add no steps on the bottom for a class. Where does it end. If i was in charge, i would create simple rules

I think if they see a b1 over 24 they will put you in p5, p6 boats should run 70 with a b1 22 or 24 depending on rpm. OPA has done a great job when I ran in 02 before OPA my 26 prop put me in p5. hope to finely see you guys at the races shooting for p4 waiting for power to show up next week Ihope so we can get this think together get motor scoop done and x. are there any rules on running a blower in class 4?

[1waterboy1]

I think if they see a b1 over 24 they will put you in p5, p6 boats should run 70 with a b1 22 or 24 depending on rpm. OPA has done a great job when I ran in 02 before OPA my 26 prop put me in p5. hope to finely see you guys at the races shooting for p4 waiting for power to show up next week Ihope so we can get this think together get motor scoop done and x. are there any rules on running a blower in class 4?

single engine vee with blower in Class 4 should be fine.Call Smitty to confirm.
Looks like there will be a strong group of boats from New England this year with TKO,AIR TIME,BOXER and NOPPER MARINE.Great to have all of you guys back racing with us.:driving:

[Wahoo 214]

I think Re-Enforcer is a single engine Blower boat in C4

[WazzupRacing II]

Hey guys I’ve reading threw all of this and honestly I think the pump gas rule has a designated target and at the end of the day it comes down to the crew what good is it when you have a gazillion horse power and number 6 drives with a million dollars when you don’t know how to run the boat. I’m not saying I’m being singled out but let’s use me as an example, I watched the back of cotner trailers boat alllll yearrrr with correct me if I’m wrong a 496 and a stock bravo drive?? So what good was my race gas and my imco drive? Look all I’m saying is at the end of the day we stop at 70 and the race is won with the crew and seat time. Just the way I feel about it.

[sbracing]

Hey guys I’ve reading threw all of this and honestly I think the pump gas rule has a designated target and at the end of the day it comes down to the crew what good is it when you have a gazillion horse power and number 6 drives with a million dollars when you don’t know how to run the boat. I’m not saying I’m being singled out but let’s use me as an example, I watched the back of cotner trailers boat alllll yearrrr with correct me if I’m wrong a 496 and a stock bravo drive?? So what good was my race gas and my imco drive? Look all I’m saying is at the end of the day we stop at 70 and the race is won with the crew and seat time. Just the way I feel about it.

In my case, I am not targeting anyone. If we did adopt a gas rule, any boat that ran in 2009, in my opinion should be grandfathered. Not to worry, other Smith brother, we got your back!

Rich

[Wazzup Racing]

Not to worry, We have a new motor for Boomer. On the fuel issue, it would be a lot of work to sample the class every race. But if thats what the class wants, Ok.

[imco offshore]

no it wont,,,do what they do in cart,,a pump around,,, pull 20 gals out of the boats and pump 20 back in ,,who ever spent the big money for the hot fuel just shared it with the 10 others..

[Fast Shafts]

When this thread started, suggestions were being sought to discuss rule changes or "tweek" the rules. My goal was to keep 6 affordable-therefor my suggestions were aimed at affordabliity, not any specific boat.
Anyway, the class is growing, so lets get ready to "get it on!" (once the snow melts!)

[sbracing]

no it wont,,,do what they do in cart,,a pump around,,, pull 20 gals out of the boats and pump 20 back in ,,who ever spent the big money for the hot fuel just shared it with the 10 others..

That would be time consuming and a a fire issue. From my involvment with Grand Am Rolex and Continental Tire series, anytime fuel is pumped in or out full fire gear and fire bottles are involved.
I don't think that is a practical answer. Sampling is the most practical solution if a fuel rule is adopted. We so it in SCCA all the time.

Rich

PS WatchaGott under the hatch Boomer??

[sbracing]

Anyway, the class is growing, so lets get ready to "get it on!" (once the snow melts!)

Barnegat Bay Winter Racing Series!

[Tyler Crockett]

Rich

PS WatchaGott under the hatch Boomer??





This..................

[sbracing]

This..................

I thought that was under the hatch of the Joker! Nice piece, one of yours?

[2TR]

So is the original Crockett rocket grandfathered in also?

[sbracing]

So is the original Crockett rocket grandfathered in also?

Did it race in 2009?

[2TR]

Did it race in 2009?

Yes, in class 5. But he moving it back to 6, well I'll let Tyler explain the circumstances when he gets back online.

[Wazzup Racing]

So is the original Crockett rocket grandfathered in also?

Yep....he can still run class 5

[Bilgerat]

I don't know that pump gas puts too much a restriction on anything, Tyler, myself and many others have built pretty sick power on pump gas with centrifugals and innercoolers. So it still needs to be ran and put into the correct class.

[WazzupRacing II]

Agreed

[Welfare Racing]

well with a no transmition rule, a bravo only rule and a prop rule

WOW I still wont be able run my slow formula in class 6, perhaps there should be a class 7

I have 330 hp with transmitions, TRS Drives and cleaver props, and its way slower than the class 6 rules.....

WOW and I thaught I was on a bujet ride

Now that should be a rule, put the boat together with old used parts


LOL
I cant spell today either

Just having fun with the thread here

:driving:

[phragle]

Im waiting fro Smitty to start class 12, 45 mph.... my firebreathing nova is gonna kill!!!!!