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boatnuts
01-20-2010, 04:09 PM
I realize by comparison to the Bertrams being talked about in this thread that the Bertram 24 is just a tadpole but does anyone on here have any knowledge of the origins of Bertram 24 hull. They were produced as a recreational craft in the early 70's but I think the hull itself was developed prior to that. It is very different from both the 20 & 25 models. The hull has a different beam (8 ft). It has a 24 degree deadrise and is V'd to the heel. Even the strakes (there are 2) are different. The rear 3/4 of the bottom has a striking resemblance to 2 boats I have previously owned (24 ft. Cigarette & 25 ft. Magnum). I'd post pics of the bottom taken when it was upside down last month but I have no URL to link. Any info would be greatly appreciated.

Brownie
01-20-2010, 04:30 PM
Bertram never copied anything. They had Russ Specht, Lee Dana etc., who were the cream of the crop, engineer-wise. It was just another boat. "Hey, guys, draw me up a 24' x 7' 7" utility boat". "OK".

boatnuts
01-20-2010, 05:12 PM
Thanks for your input Brownie. Whomever designed the bottom had to of taken a page from the Magnum and Cigarette hulls of the day. This one is 24' x 8' and I figure it is going to make a great rough water "old fart" boat. I have restyled the deck, expanded the engine well and had the bottom, sides and deck regelled. The one I have is 39 years old and looks like brand new. As soon as the snow goes in the spring I am going to completely refit her with new everything.

NNRT
01-20-2010, 07:14 PM
Bertram never copied anything. They had Russ Specht, Lee Dana etc., who were the cream of the crop, engineer-wise. It was just another boat. "Hey, guys, draw me up a 24' x 7' 7" utility boat". "OK".

Having met Lee Dana over 37 years ago - I was impressed by his knowledge and how he took time to talk to me along with Sammy James, and Keith's father who worked at Bertram at the time - Quality people building quality boats and Yachts. My brother had one of these utility boats too.

Phil

Top Banana
01-20-2010, 09:17 PM
Having met Lee Dana over 37 years ago - I was impressed by his knowledge and how he took time to talk to me along with Sammy James, and Keith's father who worked at Bertram at the time - Quality people building quality boats and Yachts. My brother had one of these utility boats too.

Phil

Phil.....you are obviously talking about Keith Hazell, whose father worked for Bertram. For those who don't know, Keith was one of the very best of the throttlemen and riggers of that golden era.

He also helped Jerry Jacoby win his World Championship in 82. He raced on everything from Bertrams, with Howard Quam to Cigarettes and was always in the hunt at the front of the pack. One of the good guys who unfortuntately passed away at an earlier age.

NNRT
01-21-2010, 06:11 AM
Correct Charlie !

skrap
01-21-2010, 09:52 AM
Charlie,

I believe that Keith and Jerry won the 1981 World Championship in Ajac Hawk. He also won the World Championship as throttleman for Tony Garcia in 1983 in the Arneson Special, Eddie Trotta's old Cougar.

John

boatnuts
01-21-2010, 10:02 AM
http://i747.photobucket.com/albums/xx118/boatingcpl/Bertram/IMG_0014.jpg

Here is a rear bottom view

boatnuts
01-21-2010, 10:07 AM
http://i747.photobucket.com/albums/xx118/boatingcpl/Bertram/IMG_0017.jpg

Here is a front view

Top Banana
01-21-2010, 03:18 PM
Charlie,

I believe that Keith and Jerry won the 1981 World Championship in Ajac Hawk. He also won the World Championship as throttleman for Tony Garcia in 1983 in the Arneson Special, Eddie Trotta's old Cougar.

John

Thanks John.....I should have checked the HORBA site rather than rely on cleaning out cobwebs in my memory banks.

www.historicraceboats.com

tommymonza
01-21-2010, 03:55 PM
Kind of looks like a Seacraft . Any relation Brownie or Charlie ?

Brownie
01-21-2010, 04:27 PM
Like girls, boats all look pretty much the same upside down..................

boatnuts
01-21-2010, 04:51 PM
LOL @Brownie
Here she is right side up:
http://i747.photobucket.com/albums/xx118/boatingcpl/Bertram/IMG_0033.jpg

http://i747.photobucket.com/albums/xx118/boatingcpl/Bertram/IMG_0039.jpg

BUIZILLA
01-21-2010, 05:35 PM
24 Bertram

NNRT
01-21-2010, 05:44 PM
Keith Also throttled for Howard Quam in his 38 Bertram Flap Jack - am not sure if he throttled in the Active cat too

Phil

rchevelle71
01-21-2010, 05:48 PM
Like girls, boats all look pretty much the same upside down..................


I gotta remember that one:D:reddevil::cool:

tommymonza
01-21-2010, 11:15 PM
Like girls, boats all look pretty much the same upside down..................

You are right about that.

LOL Thanks i needed that.

tommymonza
01-21-2010, 11:19 PM
What are the holes in the foredeck for?

By the looks of the gel work it looks like this is going to be beautiful restoration .Can't wait to see it done.

Brownie
01-22-2010, 09:17 AM
They built a Volkswagen bus themed model of that 24' with a foredeck that lifted, and side canvas that filled in the gap so that you could stand up and pee. Real men pee over the side, even on the trailer.

boatnuts
01-22-2010, 09:28 AM
Tommymonza - one hole is for the lifting ring and the other for the running light.
The guy who did the gel work did an awesome job. I could not be happier with the results :)

boatnuts
01-22-2010, 09:35 AM
Brownie - you are right, it was called a Moppie Camper. I have seen a few those available in recent years. There was also a Baron Camper but I don't know if they actually ever built one. The one I have is just called a Moppie II. In total, they only ever built 30 something of the 24 hull.

olli
01-22-2010, 11:06 AM
they built a volkswagen bus themed model of that 24' with a foredeck that lifted, and side canvas that filled in the gap so that you could stand up and pee. Real men pee over the side, even on the trailer.

52483

52484

boatnuts
01-22-2010, 11:48 AM
This is the Baron version. It bears a strong resemblance to my Donzi Hornet II. It is what I have used as inspiration for some of the deck and interior modifications.

http://i747.photobucket.com/albums/xx118/boatingcpl/Bertram/baron.jpg

h2oMag
01-22-2010, 12:05 PM
They built a Volkswagen bus themed model of that 24' with a foredeck that lifted, and side canvas that filled in the gap so that you could stand up and pee. Real men pee over the side, even on the trailer.

Brownie, Right you are, I remember that Bertram with the pop up camper deck. I believe it to was called a Baron too. I looked at one here at the Detroit boat show around 1970. But I never saw one again on Lake St Clair.

Brownie
01-22-2010, 12:07 PM
I was riding in the original Hornet when it either swapped ends, or blew over backwards. I'll never forget it.

boatnuts
01-22-2010, 12:42 PM
Brownie - lots of power or crazy driver or both? Original Hornet was 19 feet long and 19 degree V. Hornet II 20'4" long and 22 degree V.

lucky strike
01-22-2010, 12:44 PM
Keith Also throttled for Howard Quam in his 38 Bertram Flap Jack - am not sure if he throttled in the Active cat too

Phil

Keith & Vince Vento in the cat

Brownie
01-22-2010, 12:45 PM
It was the original Hull #1 that I raced in the 1964 Miami-Key West. I sold to George Newman, who insisted that I ride with him in his first race. Bad idea...........

thedonz
01-22-2010, 12:52 PM
My grandfather has a 25 Bertram that he takes care of like if it was his 2nd wife. That boat is built solid. One time he was docking it behind the house in the keys and the throttles got stuck and he hit sea wall HARD. The first thing that came to his head was " mi bote se hodio" which mean my boat got f@#@ up. NOTHING besides a little scrape on the gel coat...Amazing

boatnuts
01-22-2010, 03:10 PM
This 24 is well built also. The stringers are similar to the old Cigarette's that were 1/2 plywood core heavily wet wound in mat and roving before being placed in the hull. This boat is 39 years old and no moisture in the plywood deck core anywhere. A tiny part of the transom in the lower V showed ever so slight mosture when it was routed to remove and close the old outdrive hole. The rest of the transom core was dry and new looking plywood. When I removed the last 4 feet of the small center keelson in the engine well it was dry in the core as well. Not bad!!

boatnuts
01-23-2010, 08:52 AM
Brownie - A while back on one of the Bertram boards there was suggestion that the 24 foot hull was first done in the mid 60's and was a collaberation of Jim Wynn and Ray Hunt and was actually raced atleast once. Is this possible?

gcarter
01-23-2010, 01:10 PM
We often forget that Ray Hunt invented and patented the 24* Deep Vee hull in the 1950's http://www.huntdesigns.com/deepv.htm .
And that Dick Bertramm was probably the first "developer" to recognize the potential of this hull form, again in the late '50's.
In fact, Bertram started his boat business based on Hunt's designs.
Now in reference to the 24, and a question I've had, is when did the day-to-day relationship between Dick and Ray end?

gcarter
01-23-2010, 01:12 PM
I might add that most of the Hunt designs had a round keel, and this 24 is a sharp Vee.

BUIZILLA
01-24-2010, 02:36 PM
if it's a center console, i'll take it

insanity
01-24-2010, 02:57 PM
If anybody is interested in a complete basket case 20' Bertram w/title on a trailer send me a PM. Boat is located in MI.
Price is $1.00, yep one US dollar.:)

I'd like pics and info if you have it.

Lee
01-24-2010, 04:40 PM
Not a center console.
PM me your email address and I can send some cell phone pics.

6500steve54
01-24-2010, 05:58 PM
I'm just outside of Toledo. I'll take it. Call me @ 419-693-9379 home,
or 419-276-6484 cell. Thanks Steve

BUIZILLA
01-24-2010, 10:58 PM
u sure that's a Bert?

Lee
01-24-2010, 11:24 PM
Sold

h2oMag
01-25-2010, 10:26 AM
Sold

NEXT!!!!!:willy_nilly::ack2::willy_nilly::ack2::willy_nilly:

boatnuts
01-25-2010, 04:53 PM
Brownie: did you have a comment to the following post from the other day:

A while back on one of the Bertram boards there was suggestion that the 24 foot hull was first done in the mid 60's and was a collaberation of Jim Wynn and Ray Hunt and was actually raced atleast once. Is this possible?

Brownie
01-26-2010, 09:39 AM
I don't think so.

FLYING FISH
01-28-2010, 01:47 PM
The only racing 24 I have recorded is the 1961 Yo Yo I,driven by Jim Wynne,although you tend to go by that stated in an entry list.The next year Wynne entered a 25 called Yo Yo II.The spray rails on both these boats look different as do they when compared to post13.
I can only assume that the 1961 boat although may have been 24,had it`s spray rails re designed when the boat was maybe re launched years later.
The other Bertram 25 boats appear to have the spray rails as that for Yo Yo II,i.e. Aokone,Bloody Mary,Mona Lou,Paper Tiger etc.

olli
01-28-2010, 04:32 PM
...
I can only assume that the 1961 boat although may have been 24,had it`s spray rails re designed when the boat was maybe re launched years later.
...

The letters in front of the 15 on Yo Yo say Bertram V-24 and I don't think the spray rails were the only re designed part. Will try to find the pics.

FLYING FISH
01-29-2010, 04:15 AM
That slipped through the net,Olli.I should have used my Mk 1 Marco magnifying glass on that.

Brownie
01-29-2010, 09:45 AM
I drove one of those boats when it was called a "Sea Hunter".

boatnuts
01-29-2010, 02:53 PM
The boat I have is quite different. It is narrower (8 ft beam), has less freeboard, has a different fore deck and is V'd to the heel. The boats you have shown are all derivatives of the Bertram 25. As previously stated, the rear 3/4 of the bottom with it's 2 wide strakes on each side and their position, is darn near identical to 2 boats I have owned in the past (Magnum 25 and Cigarette 24).

olli
02-05-2010, 07:47 AM
http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff120/oli5400/Scannen0007-5.jpg

FLYING FISH
02-05-2010, 09:20 AM
Nice pic Olli.How about you put your pics that you don`t see on the Boatmad Gallery into there or whatever site takes your fancy.I feel we might learn a few things from your collection,because you certainly seem to fish out some good uns that never appear normally.

MerCrewser
02-05-2010, 06:14 PM
I took this picture. Is this a 24?

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e148/Mercrewser/100_0924.jpg

BUIZILLA
02-05-2010, 07:35 PM
looks like it..

DAREDEVIL
02-06-2010, 12:38 AM
I took this picture. Is this a 24?

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e148/Mercrewser/100_0924.jpg

The starkes look funny,,i don't think this is even a Bertram ???!!

HaxbySpeed
02-07-2010, 03:05 PM
My grandfather has a 25 Bertram that he takes care of like if it was his 2nd wife. That boat is built solid. One time he was docking it behind the house in the keys and the throttles got stuck and he hit sea wall HARD. The first thing that came to his head was " mi bote se hodio" which mean my boat got f@#@ up. NOTHING besides a little scrape on the gel coat...Amazing

I was watching mine get pulled into the fiberglass shop and I guess they misjudged the width and hit the side of the bay door pretty hard! It took a little chunk out the concrete block and only put a couple scratches on the rub rail.. They are tanks.

boatnuts
02-08-2010, 12:04 PM
I think that is the 24 Moppie Camper. where was it located?

thedonz
02-08-2010, 02:38 PM
I was watching mine get pulled into the fiberglass shop and I guess they misjudged the width and hit the side of the bay door pretty hard! It took a little chunk out the concrete block and only put a couple scratches on the rub rail.. They are tanks.

His is for sale.....you intrestead :sifone:

HaxbySpeed
02-09-2010, 10:28 AM
One project I'll never finish is enough thanks.. :cheers2:

HaxbySpeed
02-09-2010, 12:34 PM
Here's the old lump... :)

htrdlncn
02-09-2010, 02:22 PM
Phil.....you are obviously talking about Keith Hazell, whose father worked for Bertram. For those who don't know, Keith was one of the very best of the throttlemen and riggers of that golden era..
He apparently also did engines, this is an old talldeck race engine my cousin gave me I rebuilt, valve cover had Hazell's name on it.
Frank@damncarrera.com

Brownie
02-09-2010, 03:40 PM
Keith never took himself too seriously. He called his engines "Hazell Hand Grenades"

MerCrewser
02-09-2010, 04:07 PM
I think that is the 24 Moppie Camper. where was it located?

NJ, ocean gate bayville area, I forget exactly.

boatnuts
02-09-2010, 05:10 PM
With the number "33" on the side, was someone trying to race this?

TrippM
02-09-2010, 08:33 PM
NJ, ocean gate bayville area, I forget exactly.

That one was/is in Bayville on a lagoon. Been there forever.

boatnuts
10-25-2010, 03:29 PM
My new/old 24 foot Bertram Moppie II. This is still an ongoing project but I have managed to cure all the mechanical bugs that messed up my summer plans in time to store it for the winter. It is a compromise from my many years of owning small offshore peformance boats (Donzi, Cigarette & Magnum Marine). It has a comparable ride to my previous boats, the space to facilitate cottaging, the comfort to day cruise, a sporty appearance and enough pep to keep a smile on my face and make it fun to drive. I think it has turned into the perfect "old fart" boat for me:)
[http://i747.photobucket.com/albums/xx118/boatingcpl/DSC00687.jpg[/IMG]
http://i747.photobucket.com/albums/xx118/boatingcpl/DSC01247.jpg

Flying Dutchman
10-25-2010, 03:44 PM
Beautiful

NNRT
10-25-2010, 06:06 PM
PERFECT !

tsp
10-25-2010, 06:25 PM
Nice 24 :drool5:! What a sharp looking boat. If you get tired of working on it and decide to let it go let me know :D.

boatnuts
10-25-2010, 08:57 PM
Thanks guys. It's really a combination of a labour of love intertwined with a lot of indulgence. Mrs says this is my last one and I'm not arguing. It will serve me well for a lot of years. Just for personal taste, I even installed silent choice.

old377guy
10-25-2010, 10:12 PM
what a beautifully balanced package!

BBB725
10-25-2010, 10:39 PM
Very cool!

BERTRAM BOY
10-26-2010, 12:37 PM
Well, I'm a little late to the conversation, but here's one I used to own.

BBB725
10-26-2010, 01:50 PM
Well, I'm a little late to the conversation, but here's one I used to own.

Never late, I really like seeing the older boats, thanks

boatnuts
10-26-2010, 04:18 PM
Bertram Boy
You bought that from the same guy I bought this one from.

rschap1
10-27-2010, 11:10 AM
Quite the "hood" on that bow:)

BERTRAM BOY
10-27-2010, 04:46 PM
Bertram Boy
You bought that from the same guy I bought this one from.


You bought it from Marshall near Boston?

Donskihp
10-27-2010, 10:19 PM
Whats the point of the pop top deck?

boatnuts
10-29-2010, 08:16 AM
Bertam Boy - yes that's who I got the boat from

Donskihp - the pop deck was an idea taken from the old VW camper bus back in the 60's for the same camping purposes

poncho
10-29-2010, 02:15 PM
Kind of cool that VW bus inspired pop deck. I'm looking at VW camper bus's as dog transport................like the VW's for the same reason prefer the old school boats!

bolimari
04-27-2013, 09:33 PM
Brownie - you are right, it was called a Moppie Camper. I have seen a few those available in recent years. There was also a Baron Camper but I don't know if they actually ever built one. The one I have is just called a Moppie II. In total, they only ever built 30 something of the 24 hull.
What is the difference between the moppie II and the baron?
I think I have the 24 foot baron and would like to get some advise on how to go about repowering it. It came stock with a 302, 215 hp and the tr drive. I would appreciate any direction on how to do this with minimal modification. It looks like boatnuts but I was told it was the Baron. I am trying to attach the pics but not sure if I am going to succeed. It may just be my work computer. My email is bolimari@yahoo.com if anyone is interesred in me sending them pictures.

bolimari
04-27-2013, 09:35 PM
Whats the point of the pop top deck?

The pop up deck is so that you can stand up to pee

bolimari
04-28-2013, 08:25 AM
hey boatnuts can you send some pics of your boat in the water to my email to inspire me to get my Bertram done. Bolimari@yahoo.com tks

Ratickle
04-28-2013, 10:04 PM
Do you have pics of your boat? Baronmarine on here is restoring one of the earliest Barons around. He may be able to help you.

bolimari
04-30-2013, 12:49 PM
Thanks for the response Ratickle, I have some pics but seem to be having trouble attaching them. I seem to be able to attach files from my email so if you would like to contact me at bolimari@yahoo.com I will respond and attach pics. Thanks again for the advise to contact baronmarine.

bolimari
04-30-2013, 01:01 PM
bertram boy was that boat you use to have was it the Moppie II or the Baron and how long ago did you sell it. That looks like the 24 foot baron to me , correct me if I am mistaken.

bolimari
04-30-2013, 01:10 PM
Hey boatnuts you say that your boat is the Moppie II and not the Barron, what is the difference? Did the deck on you boat pop up at one time. Did you boat look like Bertramboy,s when you started? Can you send me pics of your cuddy cab and the engine compartment. I am trying to attach pics of my boat but having a difficult time for some reason. I Will send the pics when I figure it out.

Rob Bailey
06-28-2013, 07:57 AM
Melbourne Australia,mid 80s our old 28 powered by 2x 351 Ford Windsor's...shaft driven,great old boat .7610476104

old377guy
06-28-2013, 10:27 AM
Cool

Ratickle
06-29-2013, 04:20 AM
:iagree: