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Catch 22
01-13-2010, 07:39 AM
Looking at a set of pro-filer heads. Need info, pro/cons,good/bad, any info would help.And what about edelbrock marine duty rpm 454r. Thanks Jim

PatriYacht
01-13-2010, 08:43 AM
We really need more info about your combination. Engine size, Hp expectations etc.

Catch 22
01-13-2010, 10:45 AM
My combination is a 1998 454mpi mag with a procharger running 7lb of boost. Other then the procharger the engine is stock. It has stock heads now with good parts. Looking for a little hp gain and still keep it reliable. It's not a race boat but i would like it to run as good as it runs now. Thanks Jim

Chris
01-13-2010, 11:48 AM
The Edelbrocks won't give you much better flow than the stock heads with your setup. You will pick up the benefits of the aluminum head's thermal transfer properties which will make your engine a bit more detonation-resistant. The ProFiler- they're more of a drag race head. The volumes are a bit big for your application.

The forced induction gets you past some of the intake port issues that are more important with N/A engines. A bigger concern though is getting good exhaust port flow. The intake is going to flow what it does but by compressing the charge, you're going to get more into the cylinder. You need to get it out. Most heads are built for N/A port flow ratios. With forced induction, you're going to want a head with a lower ratio of intake to exhaust volume. Dart and AFR have several offerings that would work for you.

Chris
01-13-2010, 11:49 AM
Oh, yeah- welcome to the site! Tell us about your boat and where you run it.

MERPerformance
01-13-2010, 09:49 PM
I have used Profiler, over the years since they came out. I have had excellent results with them. You can use the 320 since you are using boost. If I can help feel free to call.
Mark

BUIZILLA
01-13-2010, 11:00 PM
Looking for a little hp gain and still keep it reliable. It's not a race boat but i would like it to run as good as it runs now. Thanks Jim


With forced induction, you're going to want a head with a lower ratio of intake to exhaust volume. Dart and AFR have several offerings that would work for you.Jimbo... didn't we just have this EXACT conversation?

Chris
01-13-2010, 11:31 PM
I have used Profiler, over the years since they came out. I have had excellent results with them. You can use the 320 since you are using boost. If I can help feel free to call.
Mark

Isn't their 320 an oval port head?

Raylar
01-14-2010, 02:14 AM
Chris & Catch 22
Profiler doesn't make a oval port head that I am aware of and their 24 degree head in a 320 cc intake port will outflow and perform better than almost any other 24 degree aluminum big block head out there. If these are Profilers new 24 degree 320 cc port heads, they will do a great job on that engine if set up right. If you are going to run them raw in salt or brackish water I would consider hard anodizing them before using on that engine.

Best Regards,
Ray @ Raylar

2112
01-14-2010, 03:40 AM
their 24 degree head in a 320 cc intake port will outflow and perform better than almost any other 24 degree aluminum big block head out there.

Best Regards,
Ray @ Raylar

Not including Ford heads :rolleyes:

.

Catch 22
01-14-2010, 06:42 AM
Chris & Catch 22
Profiler doesn't make a oval port head that I am aware of and their 24 degree head in a 320 cc intake port will outflow and perform better than almost any other 24 degree aluminum big block head out there. If these are Profilers new 24 degree 320 cc port heads, they will do a great job on that engine if set up right. If you are going to run them raw in salt or brackish water I would consider hard anodizing them before using on that engine.

Best Regards,
Ray @ Raylar

They will be run in salt, who does the hard anodizing, is the anodizing in the water jackets as well as the outside? That's why I was looking at dart and edelbrock also. Any other pro's/con's about running aluminum head's in salt.

Catch 22
01-14-2010, 08:44 AM
Oh, yeah- welcome to the site! Tell us about your boat and where you run it.

Thanks. I have a 1998 Donzi 22 Classic, 454mpi mag M3 Pro Charger. It has Marine Machine full hydraulic steering, 280 K Planes, Stainless Marine Exhaust, 2 inch Imco Shorty.

We boat from Central Florida to the Key's. but we live in West Palm Beach. Most of our boating is done in salt except when we go up to central FL.

searaycer
01-14-2010, 08:57 AM
Dart will hard anodize anyones heads for a reasonable price.

PatriYacht
01-14-2010, 09:13 AM
If you are looking for big power, Afr can't be beat with their 315 Cnc rect. port head. If you want more low end and drivability, they also have a couple of smaller oval port heads. They offer hard anodizing as an option.

Chris
01-14-2010, 10:28 AM
The reason the 315CNC does very well in this application is that the intake/exhaust ration is the lowest of any head available in that size range. The CNC porting is a little more expensive and doesn't give you the same benefit in a blown application as it does in N/A, but they do work amazingly well. That would be my choice. There are probabaly plenty of metal finishing shops in your local area that can do the hard anodize for you. And they are fully coated.

Chris
01-14-2010, 10:44 AM
Chris & Catch 22
Profiler doesn't make a oval port head that I am aware of and their 24 degree head in a 320 cc intake port will outflow and perform better than almost any other 24 degree aluminum big block head out there.

http://www.profilerperformance.com/bbc-heads-174.html

They call it an oval- looks like a hybrid.

It looks like they flow nicely on the intake side and have good volume while maintaining good velocity. The exhaust ratio is a little down. Probabaly wouldn't hurt them too badly on a N/A engine but you'd leave some on the table with a blower.

This is a nice source for data- and a good way of graphically seeing how and wht port volume is only one of many attributes that determine how well a head will work.

http://users.erols.com/srweiss/tablehdc.htm#Chevy_Big_Block

MERPerformance
01-15-2010, 09:37 PM
Isn't their 320 an oval port head?

Chris, It's a rect-oval 320 and 350, after that comes the SNIPER SERIES, full CNC, I have used the 385 on some 598s. Nice results! You do know, Darren Morgan, works for Profiler.

MERPerformance
01-15-2010, 09:46 PM
Chris & Catch 22
Profiler doesn't make a oval port head that I am aware of and their 24 degree head in a 320 cc intake port will outflow and perform better than almost any other 24 degree aluminum big block head out there. If these are Profilers new 24 degree 320 cc port heads, they will do a great job on that engine if set up right. If you are going to run them raw in salt or brackish water I would consider hard anodizing them before using on that engine.

Best Regards,
Ray @ Raylar
Ray, You are right! I have used them on N/A and supercharged, on the supercharged you have to add more fuel and boost due to the flow. I have used the 12 degree heads also. As you know the castings are realy clean, plus Greg, does an excellent job on the CNC work.

BUIZILLA
01-15-2010, 09:47 PM
are the Profilers Chinese castings?

MERPerformance
01-16-2010, 10:40 PM
are the Profilers Chinese castings?

NO! They are cast in Ohio, and machined in North Carolina. Ray Franks, company started by casting aircraft parts. The castings are some of the best I have ever seen, the casting is a ceramic mold or it was up until now. I think they went to a clean sand cast to keep the price down. They started by casting a 12 degree head to compete in the Pro Stock Drag Racing, but the head required a OEM part number to be legal. Ray, had his own team and car, so since that didn't happen, he sold to others.
Sorry, for going on. You hit a nerve, asking if they were CHINESE. If you called Mike,Jan, or Dave @ Profiler and ask them that, they would FLIP-OUT!
You must have the Profiler, confused with PRO-COMP
Mark

BUIZILLA
01-16-2010, 10:53 PM
not trying to strike a nerve, I didn't know for sure, website makes no mention of USA made... and it should !

MERPerformance
01-17-2010, 12:02 AM
I'll have to mention that to the guys Monday. I guess if it's not Dart, World, Brodix, AFR, Edelbrock, people think it's made in China.

DAREDEVIL
01-17-2010, 12:17 AM
I'll have to mention that to the guys Monday. I guess if it's not Dart, World, Brodix, AFR, Edelbrock, people think it's made in China.

LOL :sifone:

Chris
01-17-2010, 11:37 AM
Yes- PorComp is horrid Chinese crap.

Is ProFiler cast by Canfield?

DAREDEVIL
01-17-2010, 05:31 PM
I like those # on the AFR's !!!! mmhhhhh, looks tourqy !?

MERPerformance
01-18-2010, 12:50 AM
Yes- PorComp is horrid Chinese crap.

Is ProFiler cast by Canfield?
No, Ray has his own casting company.

BDARCHER
01-18-2010, 10:22 AM
NO! They are cast in Ohio, and machined in North Carolina. Ray Franks, company started by casting aircraft parts. The castings are some of the best I have ever seen, the casting is a ceramic mold or it was up until now. I think they went to a clean sand cast to keep the price down. They started by casting a 12 degree head to compete in the Pro Stock Drag Racing, but the head required a OEM part number to be legal. Ray, had his own team and car, so since that didn't happen, he sold to others.
Sorry, for going on. You hit a nerve, asking if they were CHINESE. If you called Mike,Jan, or Dave @ Profiler and ask them that, they would FLIP-OUT!
You must have the Profiler, confused with PRO-COMP
Mark

The casting with ceramic mold is investment casting. and is very pricey compared to sand. Investment casting is used to cast a precision part. Im wanting to put some Alum heads on my 500 EFIs. But not sure if Id even notice the HP in the heavy BT 46. What do you fellows think. thanks Bob
PS and no chinaman parts for my Chevys:cheers2:

MERPerformance
01-18-2010, 08:35 PM
The casting with ceramic mold is investment casting. and is very pricey compared to sand. Investment casting is used to cast a precision part. Im wanting to put some Alum heads on my 500 EFIs. But not sure if Id even notice the HP in the heavy BT 46. What do you fellows think. thanks Bob
PS and no chinaman parts for my Chevys:cheers2:

I spoke with them today first thing, they have gotten away from the ceramic and have switched to sand, they were having problems with core shift. Cost was the other factor. By the way they have released a 480 head.
They will also have a new web site out soon with alot of facts. It will also state made in the USA.

Raylar
01-19-2010, 12:37 AM
Catch22:

After re-reading your original post and followup post on what you are doing I would caution you on throwing 7 lbs of boost on a stock internals of a
454MPI engine. That engine even with a good head like Profiler or AFR will have a serious weakness in the rotating assembly for that kind of boost. You might want to check with some other 454mpi owners who boosted to those levels here on SeriousOffshore and make sure you're not creating a bigger problem with a block not up to the task! Just a thought.

By the way, Profiler heads are not Chi-sneeze castings! As Mer said, they are made and machined right here in the good ol USA! We oughta know, they cast our heads and Greg machines them! And for the record they are plaster core castings, very smooth and very accurate!

Catch 22
01-19-2010, 09:38 AM
Catch22:

After re-reading your original post and followup post on what you are doing I would caution you on throwing 7 lbs of boost on a stock internals of a
454MPI engine. That engine even with a good head like Profiler or AFR will have a serious weakness in the rotating assembly for that kind of boost. You might want to check with some other 454mpi owners who boosted to those levels here on SeriousOffshore and make sure you're not creating a bigger problem with a block not up to the task! Just a thought.

By the way, Profiler heads are not Chi-sneeze castings! As Mer said, they are made and machined right here in the good ol USA! We oughta know, they cast our heads and Greg machines them! And for the record they are plaster core castings, very smooth and very accurate!

I appreciate each and every post here. It's helped me a great deal. Raylar the motor is an mpi mag. I have been told that the mags have the better parts. It's been blown for 4 years. 3 of them were with 5lbs (while under warranty from procharger) and the other year with 7lbs. Every 12 or 18 months I have a compression test done and everything is good. I had a leak down done and it showed I have an issue with 3 or 4 of the exhaust valves, maybe more but not as bad as those, (only exhaust). That's why I am thinking about a better set of heads. Thanks again for everyone's help.

Raylar
01-20-2010, 08:56 PM
Good to hear Catch22, glad to hear your mpi is holding up well with boost levels you're using. The exhaust valve issue is most likely from exhaust gas temperatures EGT"S being to high for standard GM exhaust valves. You would want to use Inconel exhausts in either your stock heads or any aftermarket heads if you make a change.
Kind of keep in mind that if you use a better flowing head than your current heads you will probably also see a drop in boost levels from that change and you may have to increase the boost coming from the supercharger to get back up to 7lb or so levels. This will mean some bigger power increases and will also probably facilitate fuel recalibration and more strain on that mpi bottom end possibly. Just somethings to plan for and keep in mind.

Best Regards,
Ray @ Raylar