Bravo Gimble / Transom kit

[jeffswav]

I am rebuilding my transom on the boat (the glass and wood). I have 500hrs on the Bravo Drive. While I have everything apart I would like to replace all the seals, wear parts and gaskets in the Gimble / Transom plate assembly. I am not doing anything to the Drive itself. Anyone know of a kit that would come with everything needed?

[jeffswav]

I have done some research and found a few part numbers.
Sierra parts numbers
18-2724 Transom Seal
Is there any special sealer to use on this

18-8212 Gimble Bearing, bellows, o-rings
18-0388 Trim hose gasket

Looks like I need a tool to remove the hinges.
18-9861 Hinge tool

Is there a special tool that you must have to remove and replace the Gimble bearing. I have access to a full machine shop, would a press work for this. The bearing and all the boots are in good shape but have 500hrs on all the parts. Should I leave them alone?
It has always bothered me about the lack of grease fittings on the drive. I have one for the gimble and coupler but that is it. Has anyone adding them to the hinges and the pins? Seems like that would not be hard to drill and tap then thread in fittings.
The hinges and pins have minor play, is there a bushing kit, sleaves or any service parts that can be replaced easily while I have it all apart. I noticed a stainless washer on the bottom pin.
One more thing, is there a special tool to change out the water hose?

[MERPerformance]

In the long run, you would be better off, removing the trim cylinders and sending it out for rebuilding. I'am sure there is someone up there that can do it for you. The tools you need and time spent would be offset by paying someone to do it for you. I would be happy to do it for you, but you would have send it to me.

[jeffswav]

In the long run, you would be better off, removing the trim cylinders and sending it out for rebuilding. I'am sure there is someone up there that can do it for you. The tools you need and time spent would be offset by paying someone to do it for you. I would be happy to do it for you, but you would have send it to me.Thanks for the reply. You may not remember me but you helped point me in the right direction last year on my cam. I had Bob set me up with a custom roller and it rocks!!
Anyway, I have always been one to do it myself and try to make it better. If I take it somwhere they will want to put it back the way it came. I thought somone may have came up with some sort of a kit to rebuild it the right way. This is a very simple project compaired to what I have done and am in the middle of. Take a look at my project "Transom Rebuild".

[jeffswav]

Is this a good part to replace? Sierra number.
18-1705 Hinge pin with grease port http://www.teleflexsierra.com/18-1705-Gimbal-Housing-Hinge-Pin-With-Grease-Port-for-Mercruiser-Stern-Drives/dm/cart_id.519555160--session_id.633359964--store_id.373--view_id.508663

[Boat Tech]

One of the easiest ways to remove the Gimble bearing is to pull it out using a rear axle bearing puller by putting this puller tool behind the bearing and then using either a big slide hammer or puller tool to get it out, Here is a link to show you what tool I mean. http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000OUXAIA/ref=asc_df_B000OUXAIA966281?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&tag=googlecom09c9-20&linkCode=asn&creative=380341&creativeASIN=B000OUXAIA

Also here is a detailed look at how to use this puller starting with post number 23. http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=364003&highlight=Gimble

[jeffswav]

Thanks, that was good info on how to pull the gimble bearing. The other thing I am interested in is adding a zerk fitting to the upper swivel shaft, lower shaft and hinge pins. I have been looking for bushings and sleeves and have not found them yet. You would think somone would have a upgrade kit availble by now. Merc apparently has somthing against keeping things lubricated, the auto companys have done the same thing with front end parts.

[jet]

You will need more than just the hinge tool,there is a tool for the bellow ring,and a shift cable set up tool (set)

[Ted]

The problem with trying to add grease fittings is weakening the structure. Bravo parts are always finding new ways to crack and if you start drilling holes you will find new ways to see it crack. Maybe the pin could be done since it is steel, but the housing and ring maybe not. While it is nice to have a bellows tool and adjustment gauge it is possible to do the job without them. A puller with various ends can be invaluable though.

[jeffswav]

All of the parts have a place where the fitting should go, just no hole or fitting.
The hinge pins will be easy, I can get replacement parts that will work with grease fittings.
The lower berring has a place also but I am sure it will not work without the correct bearing. I am still looking for one.
I found a stainless upper swivel shaft that says it will work with a grease fitting but I am not sure were to drill the hole. A guy on the Bayliner forum :eek: did this but I could not get myself to join just to see a couple of pictrues. I guess joining the Bayliner forum can't be that bad.
I may wait to do the gimble bearing and bellows till next year, it looks like that can be done just as easy mounted to the boat.
There is nothing wrong with any of the parts, I am just trying to improve the reliability. I am running over 500HP and just want to make what I have it top condition. I do not have external steering yet so it is important that I do not have slop anywhere.

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

Jeff. I place steering as your highest priority. Its a triple bonus. First safety, second it will allow your to go faster, third it will extend gimble ring and upper swivel life. Presently the upper swivel is doing a lot of work. As the steering loads take its toll and add to the rings tendency to lower.

The gimble bearing will last a long time. Its life is most limited by getting wet. The new mercs are sealed. The previous ones were grease able. You should still be able to get grease able after market bearings. I may still have a Merc one in stock.

Grease fittings. Yes merc has deleted most of them. In years past everything had a fitting. Most bushings now are a high density plastic like delran or the like. Add a pin that will not pit and there is little need for grease. The upper swivel I do believe will benefit from a fitting. Most important spot I would say is the lower surface that carries the weight of the drive against the housing . I would NOT suggest you drill ANY part of the gimble ring. The bushings are serviceable.

Bellows.. I believe the shift bellows is a 3 to 5 year service item and the larger u joint bellows to be 5 to 7 years. I suggest you change both hoses when you change the u Joint bellows because its easiest at that time. There is a tool for the water hose.

The gimble bearing is easier is change when the assembly is mounted. I prefer a threaded rod type puller over the slide hammer. I gave up using the slide hammer years ago. I think I have answered all your questions with my opinions. I would suggest if you haven't purchased a Service manual for bravo's from Merc you do. It lists the special tools when needed and it will pay for itself ten fold. The after market manuals are not the same.

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

The old upper swivel shafts were cross drilled when they had a grease fitting on top.

[US1Fountain]

Are the Sierra bellows as good as quality as the Mercs, or are they really the same?

[jeffswav]

Thanks Jim and everyone else for all the good info. :) My bellows and gimble are all original. However the boat is stored inside and is never exposed to the elements. It is only in the water when being used. I do not see any signs of cracking or deterioration on the boot & bellow. I removed the exhaust bellow because I do not use it anymore. Its makes it much easier to inspect the u-joint bellow and shift boot.
The drive is a 1994 model and is equiped with the grease fitting on the gimble and coupler, I grease them often. The u-joints have fittings also and I grease them every other year and they look and feel good.
I do not have any play or slop up and down or side to side.
If the grease fittings are not needed, I may just change the transom seal and orings on the drive and call it good for now.
I keep a close eye on everything on the boat, I will just continue to check for play. If it every needs rebuilt I can have it all out in a few hours in my own shop.
I hope to get the external steering in a year or two. I do not run hard through the rough stuff and do not make hard turns when running fast. The boat is really stable with no chine walk or porposing. It should need less trim after the x is raised so it should be even better now.

Oh, one more thing. I have the merc manual, I bought it back in 98.

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

If the bellows is 16 years old I would change it. On the steering. The drive has tremendous leverage on the steering arm. The swivel shaft where it holds the gimble ring is where the it tends to loosen first. That same spot is what holds the height. The money it takes to replace the gimble ring and swivel shaft is close to 1/2 the price of an add on steering kit. I would suggest you do it sooner than later.

Good luck on your project. You got your hands full.

[Seafordguy]

From my Limited Experience -

If you have it off just replace everything - it is great piece of mind. The only special tools you will truely HAVE to have is the hinge pin tool, the socket for the water hose, and I would spring for an ebay alignment tool.

While you have it off knock the old gimbal bearing out and put the new one in backwards so that you can get it out with a screw driver in the future. If I was you I would replace both the shift bellows, and the U-joint bellow. Replace the drive lube hose and put some legitimate SS clamps on it instead of those ****ty mercruiser plastic clips. You might destroy the threaded waterpipe inserts so be prepared to replace those. You might have a hell of a time getting the shifter cable out of the bellhousing if you have a reason to remove THAT, so be prepared to replace that - corrosion sucks.

Below are some of my special tools. A piece of pipe bought from Lowes to install the bellows retainer, and a nice plastic cup to install the gimbal bearing seal (you shouldn't necessarily destroy that or have any reason to replace it but for 10-15 bucks I just went ahead and did so). To align the shift cable take a paint stirrer from lowes or HD and cut a slit in it with a circular saw - BINGO, shift cable alignment tool.

Mobilemercman helped me a ton during my project so look to him to answer your questions.

[US1Fountain]

I just use a 1/2 hex allen wrench for the side hinge pins with never a problem.

[jeffswav]

Ok, thanks again for everyones input. I am already in about $1k in my transom rebuild project that I was NOT planning on. I would like to rebuild the transom assembly, get external steering, beef up my outdrive, re-do my engine hatch. Parts are expensive and jobs are getting harder to come by. Now that I have my chain hoist and trolley I can have the engine out in a few hours. If somthing starts to show wear I can always pull it all back apart. :ack2:
Cool tools by the way, good to know for one time repairs you do not need to buy the expensive tools. If anyone else has any tools that make things easier feel free to post more pictures. I am going to set this part asside for a while and take some time to think about it. It looks like it may warm up next week and I may be getting back to the glass work. Tomorow I am going to change the pan gasket, valve cover & exhaust manifold gaskets. Last year I put one of RMbuilders cams in while the engine was in the boat. That was before I had my hoist. I have been fighting leaks on it every since.

[Dude! Sweet!]

Ok, thanks again for everyones input. I am already in about $1k in my transom rebuild project that I was NOT planning on. I would like to rebuild the transom assembly, get external steering, beef up my outdrive, re-do my engine hatch. Parts are expensive and jobs are getting harder to come by. Now that I have my chain hoist and trolley I can have the engine out in a few hours. If somthing starts to show wear I can always pull it all back apart. :ack2:
Cool tools by the way, good to know for one time repairs you do not need to buy the expensive tools. If anyone else has any tools that make things easier feel free to post more pictures. I am going to set this part asside for a while and take some time to think about it. It looks like it may warm up next week and I may be getting back to the glass work. Tomorow I am going to change the pan gasket, valve cover & exhaust manifold gaskets. Last year I put one of RMbuilders cams in while the engine was in the boat. That was before I had my hoist. I have been fighting leaks on it every since.

I just paid someone to do it. It was $150 in labor plus around $200 in parts. There was too much ass-pain and specialty tools to bother with DIYing that one...

[jeffswav]

I just paid someone to do it. It was $150 in labor plus around $200 in parts. There was too much ass-pain and specialty tools to bother with DIYing that one...I assume you just had your gaskets changed? To change the pan gasket you pretty much have to pull the motor. Unless you have a chain hoist system you are pretty much screwed. Changing gaskets are easy, I have been doing that type of work since I was 14 yrs old. I did have a Dad that tought me how to do a lot of things at a young age. Kids now just want to play video games, my dad and I were working on stuff. I saw you are putting your transom assembly back together good luck with that.

[Dude! Sweet!]

I assume you just had your gaskets changed? To change the pan gasket you pretty much have to pull the motor. Unless you have a chain hoist system you are pretty much screwed. Changing gaskets are easy, I have been doing that type of work since I was 14 yrs old. I did have a Dad that tought me how to do a lot of things at a young age. Kids now just want to play video games, my dad and I were working on stuff. I saw you are putting your transom assembly back together good luck with that.

Had my transom assembly rebuilt for $150. He did the gaskets, the bellows (shift and drive) and the water tube and then checked the bearings. There's a Merc tool for the bellows (bellows expander) and to install the water hose.

I was going to do it myself, but I kept scraping my hand on the sharp pointy part of the screwdriver handle. And the big plastic end wouldn't seem to turn any of the screws when I pushed it against them... :sifone:

[Teague Custom Marine]

Just reading what you are doing and honestly, you might want to consider buying a new, COMPLETE HD Transom Assy which we can sell you for $2395.97 (w/ or w/out electric trim senders) and is free freight. We can sell you a upgraded Gimbal Ring and Helmet as an option as well, that is ready to install as a kit.


TEAGUE CUSTOM MARINE
661.295.7000
www.teaguecustommarine.com

[gcarter]

I'm in the middle of a three year restoration of my '88 Donzi 22C Testa Rossa. Its Bravo is apparently one of the first delivered (July '87), and has the pivot shaft grease fittings and drilled swivel pin.
The old pin was worn through the case so I replaced it w/a 17-4 PH SST pin I aquired from eBay.
I wanted to utilize the grease fitting so I had a local machine shop to match the grease holes on the original pin.
You could eyeball the location of the original Merc upper grease fitting. After all this one has lasted almost 23 years.

http://www.seriousoffshore.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=53892&stc=1&d=1265402593

http://www.seriousoffshore.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=53893&stc=1&d=1265402593

[jeffswav]

Had my transom assembly rebuilt for $150. He did the gaskets, the bellows (shift and drive) and the water tube and then checked the bearings. There's a Merc tool for the bellows (bellows expander) and to install the water hose.

I was going to do it myself, but I kept scraping my hand on the sharp pointy part of the screwdriver handle. And the big plastic end wouldn't seem to turn any of the screws when I pushed it against them... :sifone:Sorry guys I did not realize people were still posting on this thread. I have been working on the fiberglass and gellcoat.
Sounds like you got a good price on that anyway. Some people just were not meant to work on things. I have alway been able to figure things out, now with websites like this it makes it much easier.

[jeffswav]

Just reading what you are doing and honestly, you might want to consider buying a new, COMPLETE HD Transom Assy which we can sell you for $2395.97 (w/ or w/out electric trim senders) and is free freight. We can sell you a upgraded Gimbal Ring and Helmet as an option as well, that is ready to install as a kit.


TEAGUE CUSTOM MARINE
661.295.7000
www.teaguecustommarine.com



Yea, if money were no object I would be looking that route. I would also like a ext box, external sterring and upgraded drive gears. Not going to happen this year, if jobs pick up maybe in the future.

[jeffswav]

I'm in the middle of a three year restoration of my '88 Donzi 22C Testa Rossa. Its Bravo is apparently one of the first delivered (July '87), and has the pivot shaft grease fittings and drilled swivel pin.
The old pin was worn through the case so I replaced it w/a 17-4 PH SST pin I aquired from eBay.
I wanted to utilize the grease fitting so I had a local machine shop to match the grease holes on the original pin.
You could eyeball the location of the original Merc upper grease fitting. After all this one has lasted almost 23 years.

http://www.seriousoffshore.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=53892&stc=1&d=1265402593

http://www.seriousoffshore.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=53893&stc=1&d=1265402593OK, this is somthing I may do before I put it back together. It will be a few more weeks before I am back to the mechanicals. How did you get the old sleeve out and replace it? I have found a few aftermarket stainless swivel shafts in the $150 range. I do not have the grease fitting on mine but I would like one.

[gcarter]

Yep, the pins are about $150 plus shipping....about half the price of a Merc pin.
Actually, I didn't replace the bushing. I could have as I have the drivers to do so, but it wasn't as bad as the pin.
If you scrutinize the picture carefully, you'll see the pin seal is installed upside down....but not anymore. I know some of you guys were probably chuckling!:rolleyes:
Going completely through a gimbal assembly like I did here is actually pretty expensive, changing out every last part. It's probably $800 in parts alone.
I wanted to maintain the original gimbal w/its serial #. The housing itself had corroded through in about three places, so I had it welded up. This was after completely stripping the aluminum castings and digging out all the corrosion pits, and after welding and smoothing, epoxy priming, and painting w/BASF R-M UNO-HD acrilyc/polyurethane single stage paint, which is color matched to the hull gel.
Good luck with yours

[boatn70]

does that pin seal remove and replace easily....weve got our gimbal ring out for replacement along with the pin. any tips on what "should" be done with all this. most of our bushings felt tight. gimbal ring had some wear and was loosening up so thats why we pulled it.
can the upper part or the pin, where it meets the tiller arm, wear similar to the gimbal ring if it wasnt properly tightened?
thanks!!

[Seafordguy]

does that pin seal remove and replace easily....weve got our gimbal ring out for replacement along with the pin. any tips on what "should" be done with all this. most of our bushings felt tight. gimbal ring had some wear and was loosening up so thats why we pulled it.
can the upper part or the pin, where it meets the tiller arm, wear similar to the gimbal ring if it wasnt properly tightened?
thanks!!

I'd replace everything you can see - gimbal bearing, bellows, shift bellows. Then you can rest easy for years...

Yes, the seal replaces easily. If it doesn't come out it is simply corroded in there.

I would think the pin could certainly wear, and they do rust and continue to tear up that seal, but the ring is probably a more prone wear area than the pin.

the guy on www.jrmarine.com sells a VERY affordable all SS pin.

[gcarter]

Seafordguy is right. The seal comes out easily. I always glue them in.
If you look at the old pin on the right, look at the upper small bearing surface and you can easily see where the case hardening wore through and the surface looks grainy. Actually both bearing surfaces are worn.
Time for everything new.

[Seafordguy]

I always glue them in.


Yeah - I used some bushing and seal Loc-Tite...