Tell me your thoughts on this boat

[drpete3]

http://www.boattrader.com/listing/1989-CIGARETTE-35%27-CAFE-RACER-96149089

My concern is the 850 hp motors and needing service after little use. Obviously the paint and interior look very nice. How about the 3a drives...any concern there and why would they have chosen the 3a's?

[CRT]

I have IIIA's on my Top Gun. Superior Drive to the Bravo to handle the 850HP motors that the cafe has. Don't see many with this setup. The IIIA's are reliable up to 1000HP. Harder to get parts for these days. But they last, so if they are taken care of you should be good. Boat looks nice. Good luck.

[drpete3]

Why didnt they just use #6 drives?

[SKRAMER]

Awesome rig.. I would buy it.. You will love it. But maitenance is everything with that set up... Just my .02

[CRT]

Did CHIEF do the rebuilds??? If they did, I wouldn't hesitate. If someone else did the rebuilds, I would find out who. Chief sets up the motors to run reliable and they should see 300-400 hours, He usually sets up motors on the mild side?!

Maybe when the 502's were rebuilt, they were bored to a 509. Call Tommy. strange to claim 850 with no intercoolers

[ar15meister]

this one is for sale. This is the owner's boathouse boat was lift kept and freshwater since the early 90's.

750 Hawk's and #3's. Had 3A's and took them off; didnt think they were worth the issues such as hard to find parts, expensive props, etc.

I could get you in touch with the guy if you want. PM me.


http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w202/ar15meister/brianboathouse1.jpg


http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w202/ar15meister/Bostonandcottage174.jpg

[ar15meister]

http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w202/ar15meister/Bostonandcottage209.jpg

[bigboat28]

How much are props for #3 drives?

[Chris]

Expensive. And getting harder to find any selection- small shafts.

The 3a is rated 800. At 1K they need constant oil changes and 50 hour re-shim/seal. And you will break them.

The problem with the engines is getting a real feel for what's going on inside. Documentation is everything.

P.S. Chief doesn't make a 502" 850. To get 850 out of 502" you need alot of expensive hardware and race gas. Like whipples/intercoolers. The Merc 700 is a 502 and even with the big pulley and ECM they only do 775.

[ar15meister]

The boat I posted was sold to my friend from Lip Ship with #3's. He Went to #3A's and went back to the #3's.

He couldnt get the boat to run as well with the 3A's as it did with the #3's because he couldnt get it propped right. Thats not to say it didnt run well with the #3A's because it did run pretty damn nice if you ask me.

Boat is now back to #3's and the right props.

[inbetween]

http://www.boattrader.com/listing/1989-CIGARETTE-35%27-CAFE-RACER-96149089

My concern is the 850 hp motors and needing service after little use. Obviously the paint and interior look very nice. How about the 3a drives...any concern there and why would they have chosen the 3a's?

That's a great looking cafe!

[drpete3]

So with the 3 a's that set up sounds like that is not for me. Well Im glad I asked you guys

[MrCig]

I don't think those drives are 3A's Look at the lowers. I thought all 3A's had Cresent lowers. Those look Like old 3's

Mark

[Tank]

that's a sweet looking Cafe. Those 3A's are fine with that motor set up.

I don't really think there's a parts issue with the SSM3A's. BAM has plenty of replacement parts. I was at Teagues a few months back and we were talking about 3A's (I have them on our Top Gun) and he said he can get whatever I need for service, parts, etc.

I personally think they are AWESOME drives. Baby 6's. One thing though, parts are EXPENSIVE! For example, 3k for a prop shaft! Ouch!

Why didn't they use 6's? Cost....6's are a lot more expensive.

[Ratickle]

I don't think those drives are 3A's Look at the lowers. I thought all 3A's had Cresent lowers. Those look Like old 3's

Mark

I agree. Here's a pic of one of my 3A's.

[Chris]

So with the 3 a's that set up sounds like that is not for me. Well Im glad I asked you guys

A 3A boat is going to be way easier to prop that an old 3 boat. You have every prop in the world available including custom CNC selections. Finding what's laying around for the small shaft is going to be tough. And with the only difference being shaft diameters, what works on the 3 will work on the 3A



I don't think those drives are 3A's Look at the lowers. I thought all 3A's had Cresent lowers. Those look Like old 3's

Mark

They are absolutely the old bullet-bottom 3's. I believe discontinued in '83 for the crescents.

[Tank]

I don't think those drives are 3A's Look at the lowers. I thought all 3A's had Cresent lowers. Those look Like old 3's

Mark

Here's a shot of our 3A's (I gave up on trying to keep the lowers polished!!). I could never tell the difference between the two, except when you pull the props off. Smaller shaft. And from what I understand the 3A's have twin vertical shafts like the 6's and the 3's have a single shaft ?

[Ratickle]

How are you doing Pete?

My opinion;

You need to get then to count the splines on the drive to see if it is a 19, 3 drive, or a 26 (7?) 3A drive.

They, or a lot of people, don't use 6's because of the cost difference between a 3A and a 6. Double or more for the 6.

3A is a much better drive than a 3. They were built later, the shafts are bigger, they will handle more horsepower. I'm surprised there was an issue with finding props. The large shaft uses the same prop as the 4 and 5, usually a large selection out there. Plus the shorter 4 and 5 leg will bolt to the 3A if you ever wanted to do some really fine tuning with prop height etc.

The price seems high for what it is in this market.

You would need to know the rebuilder 50 hours ago and review what was done with them. Otherwise plan on spending $5 per engine and doing the freshen over. Not worth replacing a $30,000+ engine if the rebuilds can't be documented from a reputable shop.

Chris is right, 850 from 502 cubes is pushing it. May be some Serious boost there which would be tough on the engines without the proper intercoolers.

Check it out. Others on here would have a better idea of its value in this market than I. PM Tank for one, he follows Cigs really close, and happens to own a really sweet one.

[Tank]

How are you doing Pete?

My opinion;

You need to get then to count the splines on the drive to see if it is a 19, 3 drive, or a 26 (7?) 3A drive.

They, or a lot of people, don't use 6's because of the cost difference between a 3A and a 6. Double or more for the 6.

3A is a much better drive than a 3. They were built later, the shafts are bigger, they will handle more horsepower. I'm surprised there was an issue with finding props. The large shaft uses the same prop as the 4 and 5, usually a large selection out there. Plus the shorter 4 and 5 leg will bolt to the 3A if you ever wanted to do some really fine tuning with prop height etc.

The price seems high for what it is in this market.

You would need to know the rebuilder 50 hours ago and review what was done with them. Otherwise plan on spending $5 per engine and doing the freshen over. Not worth replacing a $30,000+ engine if the rebuilds can't be documented from a reputable shop.

Chris is right, 850 from 502 cubes is pushing it. May be some Serious boost there which would be tough on the engines without the proper intercoolers.

Check it out. Others on here would have a better idea of its value in this market than I. PM Tank for one, he follows Cigs really close, and happens to own a really sweet one.

Thanks bro!......And it's for sale!;)

[10x]

Both boats are super nice. The 3's can use the 26 spline (#5 & 6 ) props as long as you use the prop adaptors which are available from Arneson. It's nothin more than an 19 spline to 26 spline adaptor that goes into the large shaft prop to slip over the small shaft (19 spline) prop shaft.
The parts are still available for both, but the #3 stuff is getting harder to come across than the 3A stuff. Like has been said, Chief does'nt build a 502/850 hp engine. Maybe he "redid" a current one, but I'd take that with a grain of salt before I believed it. You need to get the build sheet #'s and call Tommy before you believe anything. I'm sure if those engines make an honest 850 hp, they're running alot of boost which will require intercoolers. Personally, I'd rather have the Hawk 750's. They're a way under rated hp engine. I've got a pr that make a lil over 800 hp the way they came from Hawk. All top of the line components inside. They also pushed an early top gun to 89 on the GPS with SSM III's and 3 blade props.

[drpete3]

Trust me. Ive spent a lot of time looking at Tanks rig. Aslo Scott Kramers. I hate to think about heading to cali to drive a boat home. Oh did I mention Sea Dated's. Plus, the one i posted above and there is also a 35 top gun that has the red and white paint similar to the one here. I love that red and white paint. Then I remember a guy in chicago(Kool aid) and he has a sweet cig he was selling. Lots a choices. I agree the price may be a bit high on this but then again thats the asking price and it may not be the selling price...maybe it is. Should I even mention the 35-42 fountains out there rite now?

I would like to find somthing that looks kick azz does 75 plus and can take what lake MI has to offer. With some overnights in mind. All of the boats mentions fit this criteria. Oh and looking to stay in the 60-75K range. No Tiwin step for me :(

[drpete3]

Also another Cafe with the red and white but it has TRS drives and only asking 60K

[Ratickle]

Trust me. Ive spent a lot of time looking at Tanks rig. Aslo Scott Kramers. I hate to think about heading to cali to drive a boat home. Oh did I mention Sea Dated's. Plus, the one i posted above and there is also a 35 top gun that has the red and white paint similar to the one here. I love that red and white paint. Then I remember a guy in chicago(Kool aid) and he has a sweet cig he was selling. Lots a choices. I agree the price may be a bit high on this but then again thats the asking price and it may not be the selling price...maybe it is. Should I even mention the 35-42 fountains out there rite now?

I would like to find somthing that looks kick azz does 75 plus and can take what lake MI has to offer. With some overnights in mind. All of the boats mentions fit this criteria. Oh and looking to stay in the 60-75K range. No Tiwin step for me :(

Pick up some glasses while you're out there and deduct it as a business trip.....:sifone:

[JFM]

I know it is one you mentioned, got my vote!! http://www.seriousoffshore.com/classifieds/index.php?page=out&id=300

[drpete3]

I know it is one you mentioned, got my vote!! http://www.seriousoffshore.com/classifieds/index.php?page=out&id=300

Not sure if you saw one of the first posts on this thread but he said I should go buy this one. I may have upset him somehow or maybe somone else did.

[drpete3]

Pick up some glasses while you're out there and deduct it as a business trip.....:sifone:

Yea but I can do that no matter where I go to get a boat so I would rather not drive 2500 miles hauling a big azz boat

[JFM]

Not sure if you saw one of the first posts on this thread but he said I should go buy this one. I may have upset him somehow or maybe somone else did.

No, sorry didn't read it, still a sweet cig. Good luck in your search, bunch to choose from and starts to make you a little crazy.

[Ratickle]

Yea but I can do that no matter where I go to get a boat so I would rather not drive 2500 miles hauling a big azz boat

Take it the short way home, through the Panama Canal......:sifone:

[Ratickle]

Not sure if you saw one of the first posts on this thread but he said I should go buy this one. I may have upset him somehow or maybe somone else did.

Skramers is also sweet. Some real tough choices out there.

[anchorman]

Trust me. Ive spent a lot of time looking at Tanks rig. Aslo Scott Kramers. I hate to think about heading to cali to drive a boat home. Oh did I mention Sea Dated's. Plus, the one i posted above and there is also a 35 top gun that has the red and white paint similar to the one here. I love that red and white paint. Then I remember a guy in chicago(Kool aid) and he has a sweet cig he was selling. Lots a choices. I agree the price may be a bit high on this but then again thats the asking price and it may not be the selling price...maybe it is. Should I even mention the 35-42 fountains out there rite now?

I would like to find somthing that looks kick azz does 75 plus and can take what lake MI has to offer. With some overnights in mind. All of the boats mentions fit this criteria. Oh and looking to stay in the 60-75K range. No Tiwin step for me :(

**** I bought my boat in Cali and I was living in Orlando. Thats like another 800 miles. Pull the trigger so we can race at St Clair run.

[drpete3]

**** I bought my boat in Cali and I was living in Orlando. Thats like another 800 miles. Pull the trigger so we can race at St Clair run.

I better be sitting in a new seat by June buddy. Saw your doing some updates. Leaving the engines alone or you have some suprises there too?

[drpete3]

Take it the short way home, through the Panama Canal......:sifone:True. Didnt even think about taking it home by water. Just have to get the trailer shipped to MI. Now your thinking!!!

[Tank]

I may be able to help you out bro....Probably going to make a run out to Lip-Ship to pick up a friends boat and bring it back....Could work out delivery brother!! now what'cha got!?

[SKRAMER]

Not sure if you saw one of the first posts on this thread but he said I should go buy this one. I may have upset him somehow or maybe somone else did.

I'm not upset!!.. If I didn't have my cafe, I would consider buying the one your talking about!!.

[drpete3]

I may be able to help you out bro....Probably going to make a run out to Lip-Ship to pick up a friends boat and bring it back....Could work out delivery brother!! now what'cha got!?Did I mention Your a bit out of my $ range?

[drpete3]

I'm not upset!!.. If I didn't have my cafe, I would consider buying the one your talking about!!.Good jsut seemed like a strange post to tell me to buy it since your is still for sale. Its all good

[GENERAL LEE]

Thanks bro!......And it's for sale!;)

:iagree:

I'd much rather have yours than this one, & a lot of others. It's a great setup!

[drpete3]

:iagree:

I'd much rather have yours than this one, & a lot of others. It's a great setup!Tell me what turns you off on the red n white Cafe.

[Sea-Dated]

Come get mine. I will make you a deal......:sifone:

[drpete3]

Come get mine. I will make you a deal......:sifone:Your on my list buddy

[Tank]

Did I mention Your a bit out of my $ range?

Everythings negotiable bro!


Thanks for the kind words Brandon

[GENERAL LEE]

Tell me what turns you off on the red n white Cafe.

It just doesn't compare to some of the other Cigarette's in that price range to me.

I like the 3a's, and if Tommy at Chief did the rebuild, the motors have to be solid. Those drives should be able to handle that power.

I just think the rest of the redone parts of the boat, look a bit "cheap"? The "new" interior, looks "loose" or not "fit" well, like a new interior should. I can picture it flapping around in the wind while you're running. That red is also HOT, and there's too much of it.

I'm not a fan of all the TV's in the cabin. I'm sure the mounts will hold up fine, but most TV's can't take the abuse they endure down there, so I'd hate to see you have problems there.

If you look closely, the "fade" on the side from black to red, looks like it was done with a Krylon can, and freehanded by someone with a hangover. The "Cigarette" script, is misproportioned, whether it's been painted, or if it's a decal.

These issues, make me wonder if the parts we CAN'T see, are of top quality? The guy either spent all of the "right money" on the engines, and had to do what he could on the interior with what he had left over. Or, he spread his budget out over everything, which REALLY would worry me on the engines, tranny's, & drives. Some of the updates look like they were done himself, and not by a professional.

I'd just hate to see you end up with someones "project", and it not be in the condition the price is implying it's in. :cheers2:

[ar15meister]

Not sure if you saw one of the first posts on this thread but he said I should go buy this one. I may have upset him somehow or maybe somone else did.

If you are seriously looking the one up in North Bay is worth a look. Not taking away from all of the other nice ones.

The guy owns like 12 boats including a 30 Scarab, 35 Cigarette and a 36 Nortech Supercat....his mechanic basically lives at his cottage all summer long.

mechanically his stuff is always being looked after and the Cig just got a brand new interior including sunpad.......

I am sure we could figure out a way to get it to Sault St Marie or Detroit/Windsor. I could help you clear customs.

[Seafordguy]

My opinion - A Cafe Racer is never going to be one of the faster boats on the water, so instead of dealing with questionable 850hp motors and well aged drives just so you can go a couple miles an hour faster, why not snag SKRAMER's boat with 600hp and Bravos. Will it be a little slower, yes, but either way you aren't going to be the first to the card stop unless you leave while everyone else is still sleeping off the night before. If you blow up a bravo, you throw it in the trash and throw on a spare, for less than the 3A propshaft cost you. With SKRAMER's You get a boat with AC/Heat, nice paint and a well done cockpit. Look closely at some of the niceties of SKRAMER's boat - the pop up nav-lights, paint under the hatch, and across the cleats in the front, updated vents in the hatch, a USEABLE sunpad (trust me that is important), cupholders in the dash, "leather" interior, etc..... As a Cafe owner myself all of these things I just mentioned are stuff I would LOVE to do eventually, and add up in price so quickly that you are better off getting them from day one!! On top of that it is in your backyard, cheaper, and the ad even says open to offers.

The red on that other boat would be brutal in the summer and looks like a couch out of a bad 70's porn.

Again - I haven't been at this sport long, and have no first hand knowledge of either boat, but that is my opinion. I also think that dealing with a long-term enthusaist who has been active on both SOS and OSO for years would make me feel more comfortable with not only the purchase but the relationship post-purchase when questions arise, etc.....

[CRT]

[QUOTE=Seafordguy;408989]

The red on that other boat would be brutal in the summer and looks like a couch out of a bad 70's porn. QUOTE]

That's some funny chit!:iagree:

[drpete3]

Thanks guys! Thats Exactly the stuff I wanted you to tell me. I really dont want the maitenance of 850 hp motors anyways. I just want a 75+ mph boat as far as speed goes. I realize my budget wont let me get 1075's and a T/S.

I just wanted you guys to nit pic this boat for me.

[GENERAL LEE]

Thanks guys! Thats Exactly the stuff I wanted you to tell me. I really dont want the maitenance of 850 hp motors anyways. I just want a 75+ mph boat as far as speed goes. I realize my budget wont let me get 1075's and a T/S.

I just wanted you guys to nit pic this boat for me.


No prob man.

I agree with Seafordguy on SKramers Cafe. It's a HELL of a lot nicer than the one you asked about earlier. Everything is top notch, no "cheap" looking panels, sewing, paint, etc.

SeaDated's Cafe is also very nice. I see it often during the Summer, and he takes great care of it.

If you really want a Cafe Racer, those are the two I'd be shopping. Let us know how it goes! :cheers2:

[drpete3]

No prob man.

I agree with Seafordguy on SKramers Cafe. It's a HELL of a lot nicer than the one you asked about earlier. Everything is top notch, no "cheap" looking panels, sewing, paint, etc.

SeaDated's Cafe is also very nice. I see it often during the Summer, and he takes great care of it.

If you really want a Cafe Racer, those are the two I'd be shopping. Let us know how it goes! :cheers2:Its not so much that i want a cafe...Its that I like the lines of the cigs and these are in the $ range that Im looking. Gunna say 75K is my top dollar. Also not wanting anything under 35 ft. Tanks gun is real nice too. So right now those 3 are at the top of my list. I also wonder about The Outerlimits w 6's that cumberland got last year. the guy they got it from was selling on OSO for 75K

[thedonz]

If you're looking for a gun in that price range....Tanks...I'm sure he will neg the price, but his boat is super nice and very well taken care off.
If you're looking for a cafe in that price range without having to think about it twice.....Skramers.....These are two boats that are very known in the HP community and they are not selling crap..they're selling top notch stuff.... What Brandon said is very but very true in ref to that red Cafe....good luck

[Seafordguy]

Hey Drpete - not sure if this helps but this was some stuff I posted in another thread - not sure how familiar you are with the differences between the Cafe and Gun, since you probably have the option for either in that price range. if it is stuff you already know I'll erase it.

I believe Most TG's are notched transoms. NO cafe's are.

The Cafe dash console and left console are different. The deck where it meets the firewall on Cafe's is not straight across, but rather angled giving it a really nice look (better than the TG's in my opinion). The TG deck is flat with a railing down the middle, the Cafe deck has a recessed area in it with non-skid that is nice to walk down at night after the dew starts falling and the drinks start flowing - I credit this to keeping me out of the water on many occasions.

In the cabin the Cafe has a separate couch that does not flow into the V-berth whereas the Top gun couch flows into the V-berth (I am talking about the 1990+ style cabins here)

As far as ride - in all my research I never found anyone that could say there was a significant difference in the two.

The TG obviously has a couple hundred pounds on the Cafe, but not enough that it materially affects performance I don't believe.

Believe the Cafe bottom is from the Mistress mold....

Don't expect to see much difference in size in either the cockpit, or the cabin, or the engine room because you won't IMO.

They made 140 some Cafe's I believe, and obviously hundreds upon hundreds of Gun's..... edit - SKRAMER seems to think it was less than that. He probably knows better than I because truthfully I can't even remember where I got that # from.

The first picture is a GUN cabin and you can see the couch run into the V-berth.

The second picture is a Cafe Cabin and you can see the couch does NOT. In the picture the back of the couch folds down to extend the V-berth and that is what those "square" looking coushins are.

The last picture you can see where the wind deflector is that the deck slopes down and off and REALLY is a nice look whereas on the TG it would just be straight across.

Hope that helps...

[Seafordguy]

Oh and it is important to note that the cabin layouts were changed in the 1990 time frame - yes some 89's have the updated cabins and some 90's have the old style cabin but here is a picture of the old style cabin - just two couches.

[Tank]

If you're looking for a gun in that price range....Tanks...I'm sure he will neg the price, but his boat is super nice and very well taken care off.


Thank you...And yes:cheers2: Let's do this!

[thedonz]

BTW if you buy Tanks i'm pretty sure you'll get a discount at Lip-Ship :sifone:

[cigracing1]

Its not so much that i want a cafe...Its that I like the lines of the cigs and these are in the $ range that Im looking. Gunna say 75K is my top dollar. Also not wanting anything under 35 ft. Tanks gun is real nice too. So right now those 3 are at the top of my list. I also wonder about The Outerlimits w 6's that cumberland got last year. the guy they got it from was selling on OSO for 75K

My cousin bought his first boat less then 2 years ago and it was a 35 Cafe Racer from Lip-Ship and he loved the boat. He sold it to an SOS member and now his new Lip-Ship TG is being built and will be sick. He loved his Cafe but wish he had just done the TG from the start. I love both and as long as you buy a Cigarette you'll be loved by the Cigarette family.

[BRD]

Guys ... the boats all look great !!! Yes Kramers is really sweet if you are looking to get into a nice fast turn key Cafe !!!

[Frequency]

My cousin bought his first boat less then 2 years ago and it was a 35 Cafe Racer from Lip-Ship and he loved the boat. He sold it to an SOS member and now his new Lip-Ship TG is being built and will be sick. He loved his Cafe but wish he had just done the TG from the start. I love both and as long as you buy a Cigarette you'll be loved by the Cigarette family.

Glad I could help!
:cheers2: :D :D

[CRT]

I do love SKramers Cafe. I think it is priced right and probably with the right offer would get it done. Tanks Top Gun is also Awesome, I am pretty sure he would make you a great deal and since its ****ty out and only Janurary, he could get it to you from Calf on the cheap. Just fly out.

All and all you are looking at 2 great machines, the one with the questionable interior, drives and power for that chunk of change from a dealer, probably not your best bet, but you never know.

Hey they are all Cigarettes and you will be happy.

I will say this as to Top Gun vs. Cafe.

I have heard this statement many times.
I want to sell my 35'Cafe so I can get a 38' Top Gun.
But, I don't think I have ever heard, I want to sell my Top Gun to get a Cafe!

Just things to think about when you are making a big purchase. What ever makes you happy!:sifone:

[Chris]

Bigger isn't always better. The Top Gun is substantially heavier than the Cafe. With equal equipment and drivelines you're talking an easy 5-6 mph. and unless you're in some real slop, you'll never notice the difference between them ride-wise.

The Top Gun cockpit is a small amount larger and deeper and the cabin is a little roomier, but not so much that you'd notice.

So unless you're big-water boating, what pay for the extra fuel consumption, the larger engines and the increased strain on the drives?

[CRT]

Bigger isn't always better. The Top Gun is substantially heavier than the Cafe. With equal equipment and drivelines you're talking an easy 5-6 mph. and unless you're in some real slop, you'll never notice the difference between them ride-wise.

The Top Gun cockpit is a small amount larger and deeper and the cabin is a little roomier, but not so much that you'd notice.

So unless you're big-water boating, what pay for the extra fuel consumption, the larger engines and the increased strain on the drives?

I agree, but a straight bottom cig is never going to be the speed demon compared to new technology hulls. Couple miles an hour either way.

[cigracing1]

Glad I could help!
:cheers2: :D :D

Hope you enjoy the boat. You have one of my all time favorite Cafes. Wait until you see the new ride. SICK!

[BDiggity]

I have heard this statement many times.
I want to sell my 35'Cafe so I can get a 38' Top Gun.
But, I don't think I have ever heard, I want to sell my Top Gun to get a Cafe!


I really wanted a TG, but at the time the place where we were going to drystack it had a 36' length limit, so we got the Cafe. Then after we bought, they notified me of the weight limit & even the Cafe was too much. :smash:

But now after owning, i cant see a need to go from 35 -> 38. While a TS would be nice, they are no where near our budget.

[Birdog]

I have seen Kramers boat in person..It is as close to perfect as you will get..And a fresh water boat....

I have no doubt Tanks is VERY nice to and the 3as are a big plus to me...


Good Luck !

[Chris]

Scott's boat is in very well-cared-for condition.

[Seafordguy]

But now after owning, i cant see a need to go from 35 -> 38. While a TS would be nice, they are no where near our budget.

I agree. The only way I would trade my cafe for a gun is if I was going to make money. If it was break even then I will keep the lines of the Cafe.

Put them beside each other - the difference isn't even worth discussing. I like the cockpit and the raked look of the deck on the Cafe.

When I sell my Cafe it will be to go to a much bigger rig, or to one of the few T/S Cigs with enclosed bathrooms. It sure as hell won't be to gain a few extra inches.

[Tank]

Bigger isn't always better. The Top Gun is substantially heavier than the Cafe. With equal equipment and drivelines you're talking an easy 5-6 mph. and unless you're in some real slop, you'll never notice the difference between them ride-wise.

The Top Gun cockpit is a small amount larger and deeper and the cabin is a little roomier, but not so much that you'd notice.

So unless you're big-water boating, what pay for the extra fuel consumption, the larger engines and the increased strain on the drives?

Actually, with equal power/drives a Top Gun is faster than a Cafe. The hull is more efficient. Don't take it from me, that is right out of the mouth of Craig Barrie. And we've had the discussion more than once.

Weight wise, I would say the Gun is probably 1k heavier. You hear dry weights on both Guns and Cafes and they're all over the place. Isn't a cafe dry like 9k and a gun is supposed to be 10k?

With all that said, a buddy owned a Cafe and it was the first boat I really had a LOT of seat time in (both driving and riding in). I absolutely love cafe's. Matter of fact, when I was looking to buy I was specifically looking at Cafes but Phil had my gun and made it happen. I've never regretted the decision, only looked back and was thankful it turned out the way it did.

So, not taking anything away from Skramers boat. It's f*ckin' sweet. Always thought it was one of the nicest cafe's out there. And really, I'm not in a war on who can sell their boat to you. Look around, weigh the options, see what works for you the best and when you're ready, buy what you love.

It's all good.:)

[Seafordguy]

Actually, with equal power/drives a Top Gun is faster than a Cafe. The hull is more efficient. Don't take it from me, that is right out of the mouth of Craig Barrie. And we've had the discussion more than once.


I have always heard the EXACT same thing. Was surprised to hear Chris say different.


Weight wise, I would say the Gun is probably 1k heavier. You hear dry weights on both Guns and Cafes and they're all over the place. Isn't a cafe dry like 9k and a gun is supposed to be 10k?
My Cafe Spec sheet says 9600.


It's all good.:)
Agreed!!

[Sick Sting]

Cafe spec. is 9600 and the gun says 10500 i have an 87 broucher at home from my cafe and the gun measures 37'6'' cafe is 35'0''
-Mike

[GENERAL LEE]

I believe Most TG's are notched transoms.

NO cafe's are.



I'm in NO way trying to be rude, but there actually are just a few Cafe's with notched transoms. One of them has been on our lake since it was new, and owned by a really good friend of mine for years. :cheers2:

Here are a few pics I had to take a few years ago, to settle an argument on the subject, lol:

http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/522/pic009p.jpg (http://img690.imageshack.us/i/pic009p.jpg/)

http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/4723/pic006d.jpg (http://img687.imageshack.us/i/pic006d.jpg/)

http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/9603/pic007p.jpg (http://img687.imageshack.us/i/pic007p.jpg/)

Coincidentally, it is the "actual" boat, that was used in License to Kill. Paperwork & factory proven :cool::

http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/821/007sj.jpg (http://img171.imageshack.us/i/007sj.jpg/)

[Tank]

I'm in NO way trying to be rude, but there actually are just a few Cafe's with notched transoms. One of them has been on our lake since it was new, and owned by a really good friend of mine for years. :cheers2:

Here are a few pics I had to take a few years ago, to settle an argument on the subject, lol:



Brandon, you are absolutely correct. We've had this conversation before on a different thread. Matter of fact it was also that thread we discussed speed comparisons between the Cafe and Gun and it was at that time I called Craig to get the info straight from the source, since he was running Cigarette at that time. As I recall he said there were 4-5 Cafe's made with notched transoms.

[Seafordguy]

I'm in NO way trying to be rude, but there actually are just a few Cafe's with notched transoms. One of them has been on our lake since it was new, and owned by a really good friend of mine for years. :cheers2:


Damn - learn something new every day. I swore that there weren't any. How do they perform in comparison??

Are they on the older ones or later ones?

[GENERAL LEE]

Brandon, you are absolutely correct. We've had this conversation before on a different thread. Matter of fact it was also that thread we discussed speed comparisons between the Cafe and Gun and it was at that time I called Craig to get the info straight from the source, since he was running Cigarette at that time. As I recall he said there were 4-5 Cafe's made with notched transoms.

That's the thread! When I had mentioned the notched Cafe's, one of the former regulars back then, had quite a smart ass comment trying to be a know it all. He never replied when I went "all in" with pics. http://smiliesftw.com/x/kekefawk.gif (http://smiliesftw.com)




Damn - learn something new every day. I swore that there weren't any. How do they perform in comparison??

Are they on the older ones or later ones?

No prob man! They tried it on the earlier ones. It didn't work as it was intended, and his boat needs tab at every speed. He has driven the boat for so long, that HE can walk that tab out as the sticks go forward, without losing the balance & porposing the hell out of it. It's a tougher boat to drive, unless you want to run some tab all the time. :ack2:

[WMF]

Hey Brandon that looks like the Cafe that was used in the James bond movie?? saw the 007 on the side, just wondering?

[Sea-Dated]

Hey Brandon that looks like the Cafe that was used in the James bond movie?? saw the 007 on the side, just wondering?


Coincidentally, it is the "actual" boat, that was used in License to Kill. Paperwork & factory proven :cool::

http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/821/007sj.jpg (http://img171.imageshack.us/i/007sj.jpg/)



:driving::driving:

Very cool Cafe'! I have tied up with him several times and been through the boat. Very nice!

[GENERAL LEE]

Hey Brandon that looks like the Cafe that was used in the James bond movie?? saw the 007 on the side, just wondering?




Coincidentally, it is the "actual" boat, that was used in License to Kill. Paperwork & factory proven :cool::




That's the boat :cheers2:

He has the movie cued to that specific part up at his lake house on VHS. Funniest part, is after they escape the shootout, he stops to go ahead & bang the chick. They lean against the steering wheel, and the boat lets out a loud honk that sounded like a Peterbilt, lol :sifone:


Thanks Matt! :biggrinjester:

[Tank]

That's the boat :cheers2:

He has the movie cued to that specific part up at his lake house on VHS. Funniest part, is after they escape the shootout, he stops to go ahead & bang the chick. They lean against the steering wheel, and the boat lets out a loud honk that sounded like a Peterbilt, lol :sifone:


Thanks Matt! :biggrinjester:

Which Bond movie was it? I've heard this boat was in it for years but have never seen the flick.

[Chris]

Licence to Kill with Timothy Dalton. Set in th ekeys- sort of a Miami Vice ripoff. He bangs the broad from Law & Order- Richard Gere's wife. Forget her name.

[WMF]

Here is the complete video!! enjoy



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjSyP8XxpAQ

[Sea-Dated]

Boy needs to learn how to ease into a slip...... :eek:

I was just looking for that video but you beat me too it.

[BDiggity]

Boy needs to learn how to ease into a slip...... :eek:

I was just looking for that video but you beat me too it.

lol yeah i remember the scene. Didnt then as they were fleeing they develop a fuel leak gushing out the transom from taking some shotgun or sub-machine blasts? never understood how that could happen, but makes for good movie.

[Chris]

What I need is one of those pistol-grip shotguns that blows 3 foot diameter holes through building walls but doesn't hurt the boat sitting right on the other side.

[Tank]

Licence to Kill with Timothy Dalton. Set in th ekeys- sort of a Miami Vice ripoff. He bangs the broad from Law & Order- Richard Gere's wife. Forget her name.

Ahhhhh, that's why I never saw it....Timothy Dalton SUUUUUUUUCKED as Bond!

[Tank]

Here is the complete video!! enjoy



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjSyP8XxpAQ

Jesus, now I really know why I didn't watch that movie....HORRIBLE!!

Ol' Dalton comes in hot to the dock at the bar!!:eek::sifone:

[Bobcat]

that's Garrison Bight Marina in that scene.

[Sea-Dated]

What I need is one of those pistol-grip shotguns that blows 3 foot diameter holes through building walls but doesn't hurt the boat sitting right on the other side.

Gotta love the movies!!!!! :sifone:

[GENERAL LEE]

Jesus, now I really know why I didn't watch that movie....HORRIBLE!!



Man, NO KIDDING, lol. The same thing hits me when I throw in one of my Miami Vice DVD's.........holy CHIT this filmwork, acting, even the script, is terrible!:ack2: I watch it anyway though...:bump:

[Quinlan]

We have the WHOLE Miami Vice DVD pack. There is some FUNNY chit on them. Only on yr 2 so far.