Top Gun Changes thru the years and ??'s

[xlr8by]

Guys,
Thanks for the help in response to my question of 525 vs 575's. I am now trying to figure out if there were any Hull changes to the boats from 2002 until today? I am talking about 38' not 39's. Also is there anyway to find an options list +prices for those years? How important is the ITS system?
Thanks

[OldSchool]

I wouldn't swear to it, but I've been told that they "tweaked" the bottom a little bit in '02 or '03. Someone here should know for sure. I don't think that it was a major change.

Craig

[dykstra]

I think the 2001's and 2002's had the "tweaked" hulls.

[GENERAL LEE]

Top Guns were originally designed to run TRS/speedmaster drives, both of which obviously use a transmission. When Bravo's came out, the initial transfer didn't work as well, because without the transmission, the boat porposed quite a bit.

Props weren't where they are today, so the problem wasn't easily corrected in the following years without having to do a fairly significant amount of re-rigging.

These days you can prop those boats to eliminate much of the imbalance, without having to do a major refit. The years that SOME BOATS had imbalance issues, were typically 1993-1996. I had a girlfriend that had a 1995 Top Gun with bravos', 500's, and was the worst running Cigarette I've driven. Another friend bought a 96, that had 600's & Bravo's, which had its' share of balance issues as well.

These are just two examples, which does not mean that there weren't great boats built during those years. The main thing to pay attention to, are the years that the Bravo drive was simply rigged to a TRS balanced Top Gun.

[JupiterSunsation]

Top Guns were originally designed to run TRS/speedmaster drives, both of which obviously use a transmission. When Bravo's came out, the initial transfer didn't work as well, because without the transmission, the boat porposed quite a bit.

Props weren't where they are today, so the problem wasn't easily corrected in the following years without having to do a fairly significant amount of re-rigging.

These days you can prop those boats to eliminate much of the imbalance, without having to do a major refit. The years that SOME BOATS had imbalance issues, were typically 1993-1996. I had a girlfriend that had a 1995 Top Gun with bravos', 500's, and was the worst running Cigarette I've driven. Another friend bought a 96, that had 600's & Bravo's, which had its' share of balance issues as well.

These are just two examples, which does not mean that there weren't great boats built during those years. The main thing to pay attention to, are the years that the Bravo drive was simply rigged to a TRS balanced Top Gun.


Neat history lesson but the question was on 2002 and newer. I believe the dash was updated in 06 and there were a few less optioned "sypder" edition boats built.

[Seafordguy]

Xlr8by - I don't think there was anything in the years you are asking about that should drive your decision other than a boat that was maintained well and meets your other needs (engine package, colors, etc...)

[GENERAL LEE]

Neat history lesson but the question was on 2002 and newer. I believe the dash was updated in 06 and there were a few less optioned "sypder" edition boats built.

ah, chit..... I completely missed that. :leaving::D

Well, "ahem" since we're apparently talking about 02's & newer, and NOT, 92's & newer......:bump: There hasn't been a change to the bottoms of the 38 from 02, to current.

The ITS system is really nice to have, but not something you HAVE to have. You will pay less for boats without it, but just the same, your boat will be worth less when you decide to sell. It basically acts like a stand off box, so you can run a "little" different prop if you want. It doesn't improve top speed on the 38's from what I've seen.

[Team Tsunami]

They changed the deck in 2006. Bottom is still the same.

[xlr8by]

Thanks for the responses so far. Still working on the information gathering stage. I didn't mind the history lesson at all either.

[WMF]

Thanks for the responses so far. Still working on the information gathering stage. I didn't mind the history lesson at all either.

JS always has somthing negative to say when it comes to Cigarette's, he want one reall bad!! trust me:sifone:, Thanks Brandon for the input!! any info is good info in my book!!

[JupiterSunsation]

JS always has somthing negative to say when it comes to Cigarette's, he want one reall bad!! trust me:sifone:, Thanks Brandon for the input!! any info is good info in my book!!

What was negative? I didn't know anything about the trs/bravo weight difference and thanked Brandon for the history lesson....:confused:

[PM203]

There was a new mold for the 02's and up. Same bottom and top, just a new mold for a cleaner product.

[Tank]

ah, chit..... I completely missed that. :leaving::D

Well, "ahem" since we're apparently talking about 02's & newer, and NOT, 92's & newer......:bump: There hasn't been a change to the bottoms of the 38 from 02, to current.

The ITS system is really nice to have, but not something you HAVE to have. You will pay less for boats without it, but just the same, your boat will be worth less when you decide to sell. It basically acts like a stand off box, so you can run a "little" different prop if you want. It doesn't improve top speed on the 38's from what I've seen.

Since you did bring up the older boats....There was a change in the way they were/are layed up in the 99 era...I don't remember exactly what they did (maybe you do Brandon) but I want to say that's when they started vacuum bagging.

[BillR]

I don't have specifics, but have been told by some that helped in the design of the TS hull:
The 01's and 02's are the faster, better handling hulls, then in 03 and 04 there were some hull changes (some of which included rocker) because Cig wanted to change X-Dim so they could make better use of the sportmaster drive.
But alot of the TS with Sportmasters are tough to bring up on plane.

According to my source, the 01's & 02's were best all around.

Hopefully, the person who gave me this info, will chime in.

[GENERAL LEE]

Since you did bring up the older boats....There was a change in the way they were/are layed up in the 99 era...I don't remember exactly what they did (maybe you do Brandon)

but I want to say that's when they started vacuum bagging.




That's right Tank :cheers2:

One boat that I remember showing a HUGE difference in performance, was Pudges Top Gun. I'm pretty sure that thing ran like close to 80mph with 500's, with the bagged hull? PM owned the boat as well, and could tell us.

[PM203]

Pudges boat was vacuum bagged and ran very nice. It was the best running/handling straight bottom bravo boat I have been on. I had the boat running 76-77 MPH consistently on freshwater and Phil had it to 79 just knudging the 80 MPH mark in Fl. With the vacuum bag and the half cabin, you could visually see how much higher the boat sat in the water when next to a older Topgun.

[Flying Dutchman]

Pudges boat was vacuum bagged and ran very nice. It was the best running/handling straight bottom bravo boat I have been on. I had the boat running 76-77 MPH consistently on freshwater and Phil had it to 79 just knudging the 80 MPH mark in Fl. With the vacuum bag and the half cabin, you could visually see how much higher the boat sat in the water when next to a older Topgun.

:driving:How does that compare to a TS with 500's ?

[GENERAL LEE]

Pudges boat was vacuum bagged and ran very nice. It was the best running/handling straight bottom bravo boat I have been on. I had the boat running 76-77 MPH consistently on freshwater and Phil had it to 79 just knudging the 80 MPH mark in Fl. With the vacuum bag and the half cabin, you could visually see how much higher the boat sat in the water when next to a older Topgun.

Thanks. I remember it being fast for a straight bottom.

[PM203]

:driving:How does that compare to a TS with 500's ?

T/S with bravo's usually ran 80-82 ish and handled the water very nicely. T/S boats ride smoother through the chop and give you a better overall ride. I could make my 2000 ride almost as nice, but not without some serious tab.

[Flying Dutchman]

T/S with bravo's usually ran 80-82 ish and handled the water very nicely. T/S boats ride smoother through the chop and give you a better overall ride. I could make my 2000 ride almost as nice, but not without some serious tab.

Thanks!:USA:

[Tank]

That's right Tank :cheers2:

One boat that I remember showing a HUGE difference in performance, was Pudges Top Gun. I'm pretty sure that thing ran like close to 80mph with 500's, with the bagged hull? PM owned the boat as well, and could tell us.

I know RWD was one of the first bagged boats too. 99 Top Gun 1000 Pfaffs and 6's. Ran like a raped ape!!!

[Geronimo36]

Top Guns were originally designed to run TRS/speedmaster drives, both of which obviously use a transmission. When Bravo's came out, the initial transfer didn't work as well, because without the transmission, the boat porposed quite a bit.

Props weren't where they are today, so the problem wasn't easily corrected in the following years without having to do a fairly significant amount of re-rigging.

These days you can prop those boats to eliminate much of the imbalance, without having to do a major refit. The years that SOME BOATS had imbalance issues, were typically 1993-1996. I had a girlfriend that had a 1995 Top Gun with bravos', 500's, and was the worst running Cigarette I've driven. Another friend bought a 96, that had 600's & Bravo's, which had its' share of balance issues as well.

These are just two examples, which does not mean that there weren't great boats built during those years. The main thing to pay attention to, are the years that the Bravo drive was simply rigged to a TRS balanced Top Gun.

Interesting... I noticed the same thing on my buddy's TG.... We ran the ocean in some 4-5's, about 1.5 hrs each way... He drove down, I drove back... For some reason I just couldn't find a comfortable trim setting at cruise speed... It porpoised if out too much and plowed if in too much... The solution, mash the sticks forward and run 70 mph....

Anyway, I was pretty beat up from that trip so when we got back to the dock I turned to my father and said; "Let's take the Apache out and see what it does."

I was shocked when my Apache rode better than the Cig.... My father has been out of boating for a good 15 years and even he noticed the difference...

thanks for the info!

[Geronimo36]

I know RWD was one of the first bagged boats too. 99 Top Gun 1000 Pfaffs and 6's. Ran like a raped ape!!!

On of my favirite TG's!!!! :driving:

[Geronimo36]

What year were the single steps?

[ktm2212]

Interesting Thread....

I just purchased a 2000 TS Top Gun/ Cover girl cabin. I have 500's to drop in slightly bumped up to about 550hp. Bravo drives and Stellings boxes. Can you guys tell me what I should expect handling and speed wise? My first Cig

Thx

[PM203]

Interesting Thread....

I just purchased a 2000 TS Top Gun/ Cover girl cabin. I have 500's to drop in slightly bumped up to about 550hp. Bravo drives and Stellings boxes. Can you guys tell me what I should expect handling and speed wise? My first Cig

Thx

Which boat did you buy?

[MarylandMark]

Straight bottom until 2000, then six single step boats in 2000 and then the 1st T/S was in 2000

2001+ are all T/S

[ktm2212]

Magic Blonde

[PM203]

2001+ are all T/S


Actually, there was one straight bottom 2002 custom built by Cig . Its a 575/ ITS full cabin boat with enclosed head!! Its for sale for $159K.

[PM203]

Magic Blonde

Any photos?