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Ted
12-04-2009, 11:40 AM
The engine tech forum seems to be hopping pretty good and I am about to dig into my winter project so I am looking for some input. Any and all discussion is appreciated, let's build me some engines :sifone::smash:

Alrighty, so I have 2 short blocks I need to redo. Bone stock 1st Gen 95 502 Mag MPI with VST systems, not the cool fuel deal. (Never vapor locked on me) The heads are stock and fresh with stainless intakes, inconel exhaust, and a little port cleanup only. My idea is to build the short blocks into 540's and change to a more modern roller cam set up. Still keeping compression down so I can run 89. I have standard Stainless Marine exhaust on it now. So here are my questions:

1. Can the MPI computers be reprogrammed for the higher C.I. ?

2. Can the fuel system feed them?

3. Can I get a cam profile that will get me around 540-550 HP with these heads and compression? (Don't want or need any more power-can't believe I just wrote that!)

4. If I am off base here, what would you do differently?

I would like to keep this project reasonably priced (not cheap, no such thing in boating) since the boat is not worth that much and an upgrade is always on my mind :sifone:


So can ya help a brutha out???

Chris
12-04-2009, 11:45 AM
Call Bob Madara.

But you're on the right track with the 540 idea. By the time you're done, you're going to have ended up adding a set of aluminum heads into the recipe. There's too much benefit to be had for the difference in price.

I have zero experience with the MPI systems. That leads me to believe they do about what they're designed for and not much more. But there seems to be no shortage of the 500/525 EFI systems out there that you can upgrade to

Spicy
12-04-2009, 11:53 AM
http://www.seriousoffshore.com/classifieds/index.php?page=out&id=555

Ted
12-04-2009, 12:31 PM
Call Bob Madara.

But you're on the right track with the 540 idea. By the time you're done, you're going to have ended up adding a set of aluminum heads into the recipe. There's too much benefit to be had for the difference in price.

I have zero experience with the MPI systems. That leads me to believe they do about what they're designed for and not much more. But there seems to be no shortage of the 500/525 EFI systems out there that you can upgrade to

I am hoping to stay away from AL heads only because of the water I boat in. And I am not looking to make that much power. The MPI system can be tuned some, and maybe with a little more fuel pressure I'm thinking it can do what I need it to. Really don't want to go to carbs.

Ted
12-04-2009, 12:32 PM
http://www.seriousoffshore.com/classifieds/index.php?page=out&id=555


Thanks Pat, that is what I'm thinking about but since I have a good machine shop I am thinking about doing them "in-house" (Ted's Garage) :sifone:

Spicy
12-04-2009, 01:46 PM
Thanks Pat, that is what I'm thinking about but since I have a good machine shop I am thinking about doing them "in-house" (Ted's Garage) :sifone:

I just read that and thought that was resonable but what do I know??? The way I read that is you drop your old 502 to them and they switch everything over and dyno your new 540 for 6K x 2= 12K and your done but a little labor...

I can tell you I had alot more then that in my boat when I repowered last summer...

But you have awhole lot more expierance in this than I... I still have to go to the Marina this weekend and figure out where to put the Antifreeze at??? :ack2: :eek: :sifone:

t500hps
12-04-2009, 02:26 PM
Yes the computers can be programmed but you really MUST send an entire engine to be dyno/tuned. Fuel system I know nothing about. With ported heads and 540CI your looking to make 1hp per CI (or just over)...not really a problem if you can get enough air in there...but the 502 intake will be your biggest problem. You should beable to run 9.0-9.3 compression and run 89 all day long.

For comparison, I have 500efi's made into 540's that look stock. Ported iron eagle heads, 9.75 compression, decent size cam, monoblade intake trying to get more air in and the stock fuel system.....fully dressed on a dyno it made 700 ft/TQ (4,300), but only 630 HP (5,200). Your intake is much worse than mine. If you know Mike MAngini on the upper bay he made 540's from his 502 mag...ended up scraping the EFI and going to carb's because of various problems.

Tyler Crockett
12-04-2009, 02:34 PM
The engine tech forum seems to be hopping pretty good and I am about to dig into my winter project so I am looking for some input. Any and all discussion is appreciated, let's build me some engines :sifone::smash:

Alrighty, so I have 2 short blocks I need to redo. Bone stock 1st Gen 95 502 Mag MPI with VST systems, not the cool fuel deal. (Never vapor locked on me) The heads are stock and fresh with stainless intakes, inconel exhaust, and a little port cleanup only. My idea is to build the short blocks into 540's and change to a more modern roller cam set up. Still keeping compression down so I can run 89. I have standard Stainless Marine exhaust on it now. So here are my questions:

1. Can the MPI computers be reprogrammed for the higher C.I. ?

2. Can the fuel system feed them?

3. Can I get a cam profile that will get me around 540-550 HP with these heads and compression? (Don't want or need any more power-can't believe I just wrote that!)

4. If I am off base here, what would you do differently?

I would like to keep this project reasonably priced (not cheap, no such thing in boating) since the boat is not worth that much and an upgrade is always on my mind :sifone:


So can ya help a brutha out???

Ted you can program the Mefi 1 to work. I would put the cool fuel on thou when going to the 540. I have some used cool fuel stuff around.

YoungPerformance
12-04-2009, 02:43 PM
The problem you will run into is the intake. That manifold will severly limit your power potential. There are quite a few things that can be done to the intake to help it flow. However, personally, I think it is a waste when it can be replaced pretty reasonably. You can extrude hone the intake (about 800-$1000), bore out the throttle body(200-300), shorten the runners(100-200), and do some hand blending (200-300). These things will drastically help the manifold. However, even with all of that, I have never been able to make much over 600 hp......ever. At some point you will need injectors. The problem is there are no drop in injectors that will fit that manifold. I modify, drill, cut, weld, mill,etc. the fuel rails and manifold to make a Mototron injector fit. It turns out great, but it is a bunch of work. So...... now we have over $2000 tied up in a so-so manifold. For about $2500-$2600, you can replace it with Holley's setup. I buy there manifold setup without the electronics and use a Mefi. To answer your other question, no problem to reprogram the ecm. I order them with the manifold, 2000 cfm throttle body, fuel rails, injectors, croosover tubes, IAC, TPS, ECT (coolant temp), Map sensor, IAT (intake air temp). It is a dynamite setup that can make as much power naturally aspirated as you would like. I have made over 800 hp with one. Without doing the above work to the MPI intake, I don't think you will see 550 hp, even with a 540.
If you were to get the Holley intake setup, then you could just bore the engine to 516 or 525 and skip the 540. This will save you a ton on money since you can reuse the crank, balancer, flywheel, rods, etc. Just replace the pistons. I would bump the compression to 9.3 for premium, or 9:1 for 89 octane. If you did a little cleanup in the heads, you could make over 550 hp without even trying. With a set of aluminum heads, you could make well over 600 hp.
This is the route that I take on the majority of 502 MPI's that I see. Once I explain it in dollars and cents, most see that the Holley setup is the way to go. Let me know if you have any questions or if I can help in any way. Good luck.
Eddie

Ted
12-04-2009, 02:54 PM
Ted you can program the Mefi 1 to work. I would put the cool fuel on thou when going to the 540. I have some used cool fuel stuff around.


Tyler, I know you have done lots of flow work with manifolds and what not, what is your take on the flow restrictions of the MPI manifold that tHP500 and Eddie are talking about?

Ted
12-04-2009, 02:58 PM
The problem you will run into is the intake. That manifold will severly limit your power potential. There are quite a few things that can be done to the intake to help it flow. However, personally, I think it is a waste when it can be replaced pretty reasonably. You can extrude hone the intake (about 800-$1000), bore out the throttle body(200-300), shorten the runners(100-200), and do some hand blending (200-300). These things will drastically help the manifold. However, even with all of that, I have never been able to make much over 600 hp......ever. At some point you will need injectors. The problem is there are no drop in injectors that will fit that manifold. I modify, drill, cut, weld, mill,etc. the fuel rails and manifold to make a Mototron injector fit. It turns out great, but it is a bunch of work. So...... now we have over $2000 tied up in a so-so manifold. For about $2500-$2600, you can replace it with Holley's setup. I buy there manifold setup without the electronics and use a Mefi. To answer your other question, no problem to reprogram the ecm. I order them with the manifold, 2000 cfm throttle body, fuel rails, injectors, croosover tubes, IAC, TPS, ECT (coolant temp), Map sensor, IAT (intake air temp). It is a dynamite setup that can make as much power naturally aspirated as you would like. I have made over 800 hp with one. Without doing the above work to the MPI intake, I don't think you will see 550 hp, even with a 540.
If you were to get the Holley intake setup, then you could just bore the engine to 516 or 525 and skip the 540. This will save you a ton on money since you can reuse the crank, balancer, flywheel, rods, etc. Just replace the pistons. I would bump the compression to 9.3 for premium, or 9:1 for 89 octane. If you did a little cleanup in the heads, you could make over 550 hp without even trying. With a set of aluminum heads, you could make well over 600 hp.
This is the route that I take on the majority of 502 MPI's that I see. Once I explain it in dollars and cents, most see that the Holley setup is the way to go. Let me know if you have any questions or if I can help in any way. Good luck.
Eddie

Eddie, your idea is intriguing but my thought is that if I go to more cubes and run it at around 1hp/CI it will be more reliable than going 1.1 hp/CI like a 509 for the same power output. I have heard the 502 Mag stuff is decent but do you feel the Merc stuff would hold up okay at the higher output? And would that horsepower be at a higher RPM if I go with the smaller displacement or are you getting the power from the efficiency?

t500hps
12-04-2009, 06:42 PM
If it's a budget build....I'd leave it a 515, re-using the crank and rods (those along are over $1K) and spend the money on an intake like Young is talking about. If 550 is your goal on 89 that will be easy and reliable.....getting 600hp wouldn't be that hard a push if you do some port work to the stock heads. Remember and engine is just an air-pump......If you can't get air in, it doesn't matter what the rest of the parts are.

and BTW: more CI means more TQ (again, only if you can get enough air)....what drives are you running and can they handle it?

Ted
12-05-2009, 12:46 AM
If it's a budget build....I'd leave it a 515, re-using the crank and rods (those along are over $1K) and spend the money on an intake like Young is talking about. If 550 is your goal on 89 that will be easy and reliable.....getting 600hp wouldn't be that hard a push if you do some port work to the stock heads. Remember and engine is just an air-pump......If you can't get air in, it doesn't matter what the rest of the parts are.

and BTW: more CI means more TQ (again, only if you can get enough air)....what drives are you running and can they handle it?


Well, this is part of the issue. I am running standard Bravos so I don't want to kill them. I may be thinking old school but a bigger displacement engine turning slower seems like it would be more reliable. And if I do a 540 kit I am looking at 1500 or so an engine, the Holley stuff is about 2400, so the 900 difference will cover my dyno time. :sifone:

t500hps
12-05-2009, 01:10 AM
Well, this is part of the issue. I am running standard Bravos so I don't want to kill them. I may be thinking old school but a bigger displacement engine turning slower seems like it would be more reliable. And if I do a 540 kit I am looking at 1500 or so an engine, the Holley stuff is about 2400, so the 900 difference will cover my dyno time. :sifone:


More displacement makes more HP, but it makes ALOT more TQ. Torque is what will kill a Bravo, not necesarily HP. I'm fairly certain you'll make more HP with a 515/holley intake then you will with a 540/MPI intake. The MPI intake will run out of air before 5,000 rpm's so you'll need to make power early....but this also makes TQ (remember mine make 700 ft/TQ, I've already blown an XR). Using that 515/holley will allow you to setup the engine to spin 5,500-5,600 which will still be reliable, and the bravos will be much more likely to survive. (I spin mine 5,600 when I prop it for top end runs but everyday props max out around 5,250)

jeffswav
12-05-2009, 04:42 AM
I use the Holley MPI kit that Eddie is talking about. I have the 1000CFM TB with 42LB injectors with large oval intake. I had to do some port work on the intake to match up with the heads. At the time the marine kit only came with 30LB injectors so I purchaced bigger ones and sold the old ones. Eddie recomended the 2000CFM TB, I am not sure what the limit is for the 1000CFM. I run 489 stroker up to 5400+ RPM. The Holley PCM is laptop programable and can be tuned with your laptop on the fly. You would want to have O2 bungs welded in your exhaust risers. If you get the Holley kit be sure to get the wideband O2 upgrade. You can even set your target AF ratio's and let the PCM make adjustments.

Tyler Crockett
12-05-2009, 10:51 AM
Tyler, I know you have done lots of flow work with manifolds and what not, what is your take on the flow restrictions of the MPI manifold that tHP500 and Eddie are talking about?

Ted I did a whole 3 or 4 page artical on this 502 upgrade 8 or 10 years ago in Hot Boat mag. I put a kit together with a camshaft, bigger valves in the head, ex, roller rocker arms, timing chain, pushrods, valve springs, flame arrester, and a ECU program and we picked up almost 100HP and 100FT of torque. Now if you want to take the time to port the stock heads you can probally get 520HP . I would make the engine a 516ci because you have to buy pistons anyway. I have made 565HP thru that MPI manifold. Those injectors will work fine you just need to go to the cool fuel. If you put the Holley intake on you will make more HP but you will lose Torque. That's why those 500 and 525 manifolds work so good they have real long runners that you can't beat but you can;t get enough air thru that throttlebody to make more than 625HP. That's why I made a bigger throttlebody to bolt right on the top of the 500 manifold. You get the long runners for torque and the bigger throttlebody for more flow and HP. It takes 17 to 20 HP to get 1 MPH on the water so you may fall a little short of your 540-550HP but you can use everything you have. Also when you do the machine work deck the blocks to 0 deck to get the Quench area as small as you can to bring the compression up to 9.0 that will help a bunch.

Tyler Crockett
12-05-2009, 10:56 AM
More displacement makes more HP, but it makes ALOT more TQ. Torque is what will kill a Bravo, not necesarily HP. I'm fairly certain you'll make more HP with a 515/holley intake then you will with a 540/MPI intake. The MPI intake will run out of air before 5,000 rpm's so you'll need to make power early....but this also makes TQ (remember mine make 700 ft/TQ, I've already blown an XR). Using that 515/holley will allow you to setup the engine to spin 5,500-5,600 which will still be reliable, and the bravos will be much more likely to survive. (I spin mine 5,600 when I prop it for top end runs but everyday props max out around 5,250)

The stroke of the crankshaft will make more torque and compression will also make torque. I think in the RPM range Ted wants to run in he will get 5200-5300 RPM of of the MPI manifold.

mdgperf
12-05-2009, 11:20 AM
Ted you can easily make the 550hp with the mefi1 and your injectors,but as everyone that has worked with that old intake knows,the thing is junk!for making power,I once dyno a stock 502mpi made a little over 400,changed it over to intake and carb made 450,If i were you i would consider buying a intake setup from a 500 or 525 and use your harness and mefi,I have several on the shelf 2-500efi,2-525efi they are also arround from whipple upgrades,the holley intake works great too but for 550hp the 500-525 set-up is fine and will save some money,if someone has a 550hptune your best bet is to use that set-up,camshaft,heads,exhaust set-up or you will spend a lot of time tuning your combo.I have a 625 tune (afr heads,different cam,mono throttle body,55lb injectors,bigger fuel system)works great but not cheap.The merc cool fuel is good for about 550hp,would not feed my 625 ,tried it and fuel psi droping during dyno pull.I have plenty of low hrs cool fuel set-ups,not really sure about the the vst system for making power,might support 550.Another option would be is do a merc 500efi clone,great engine,i have that tune saved in my mefi burn alot of used good parts around and less time on your tune.Putting the 4.25 stoke crank in your 9.8 short deck is ok,it will help but the piston gets real short,I have done several but not a big fan,cylinder will wear a lot faster than the stock set-up but will still go 200-300hrs if not run too hard

Geronimo36
12-05-2009, 12:11 PM
The old generation MPI's had the same bottom end as the HP500's before Merc upgraded to better rods, 731 cam and holley 750. Might be a good idea to upgrade to some manleys.

Last winter my buddy went to JC Performance hand had his 454 MPI massaged... Ported GM iron heads, 525EFI cam, bigger rail/injectors and it made 515 HP @ 5600. the boat picked up a good 10 mph over the 454 mpi and idled very well.

You should easily be able to get 550-600 hp with 540, 741 cam, 500efi intake and associated parts or put an 850 on top if budget is tight and go to town!! :)

My buddie's 522" made 600 hp with similar set-up, dominator and Merlin iron heads... nothing fancy..... Previously this engine was 509" and made 550 hp with a 741.

YoungPerformance
12-05-2009, 04:11 PM
I use the Holley MPI kit that Eddie is talking about. I have the 1000CFM TB with 42LB injectors with large oval intake. I had to do some port work on the intake to match up with the heads. At the time the marine kit only came with 30LB injectors so I purchaced bigger ones and sold the old ones. Eddie recomended the 2000CFM TB, I am not sure what the limit is for the 1000CFM. I run 489 stroker up to 5400+ RPM. The Holley PCM is laptop programable and can be tuned with your laptop on the fly. You would want to have O2 bungs welded in your exhaust risers. If you get the Holley kit be sure to get the wideband O2 upgrade. You can even set your target AF ratio's and let the PCM make adjustments.

I don't use Holley's electronics. I order the manifold kit without the ecm and harness and I use a Mefi ecm and harness. I also order it with 50 or 55 lb injectors, depending on what engine it's going on.
Eddie

Ratickle
12-06-2009, 02:36 PM
I have Holley/Cutler system on a 509 complete unit in the Marlin. And I have the Holley intake setup with the Haltech system on the 540's in the Scorpion. I have no issues with the intake system for the money, and neither did my engine guys. They flow really well. I raised the ports for more velocity and matched that up, but other than a little smoothing and tweaking otherwise, seem to be really nice design. Rail system and the 2000 cfm body are also well done.

Ted
12-06-2009, 10:11 PM
Wow, thanks for all the fantastic input guys. It is amazing to see several people with different but completely reasonable ways to the same solution. So let's see if I can sum this up a little bit.

1. My manifold is crap and everything is easier with a swap, and a less expensive alternative would be a 500-525 HP Merc (used).

2. My injectors and ECU are usable, a tune would be needed and I will need to upgrade to at least cool fuel or an aftermarket fuel pump setup to keep it happy.

3.A cam upgrade to a roller setup would be good, ideally from Bob Madara :)

4. I can get most of the way to where I want to be with a .060" overbore (or is it .100" ?) and doing a 540 kit is not necessary or all that desirable.

5. I am looking for about 9 to 1 compression.

Anything else I'm missing? Suggestions?

Thanks again for all the responses, I want to keep this or another thread going as I do this build, seems like it should be a cool project.

Chris
12-06-2009, 10:21 PM
I wouldn't go .100 over- you give away that one more rebore.

And when you buy pistons, rods, rings and bearings, you're a very tiny sum away from getting a whole kit that includes a crankshaft. That 540 is going to give you fantastic midrange punch with little drawback. And if you lay off the holeshots and avoid re-entry mistakes, your drives aren't going to be any worse for the wear. Look at the SCAT kits.

Trim'd Up
12-06-2009, 10:34 PM
I wouldn't go .100 over- you give away that one more rebore.

And when you buy pistons, rods, rings and bearings, you're a very tiny sum away from getting a whole kit that includes a crankshaft. That 540 is going to give you fantastic midrange punch with little drawback. And if you lay off the holeshots and avoid re-entry mistakes, your drives aren't going to be any worse for the wear. Look at the SCAT kits.

That's exactly where I was. I needed pistons, rings, and bearings which would have probably cost me around $600 plus rod bolts, resizing etc. Instead I bought a stroker rotating assembly for around $1700 with everything and I sold my rods and crank for $700. I ended up with all new parts, internally balanced and more CI for around $300 bucks. Seemed like a no brainer for me.:driving:

t500hps
12-06-2009, 10:44 PM
Wow, thanks for all the fantastic input guys. It is amazing to see several people with different but completely reasonable ways to the same solution. So let's see if I can sum this up a little bit.

1. My manifold is crap and everything is easier with a swap, and a less expensive alternative would be a 500-525 HP Merc (used).

2. My injectors and ECU are usable, a tune would be needed and I will need to upgrade to at least cool fuel or an aftermarket fuel pump setup to keep it happy.

3.A cam upgrade to a roller setup would be good, ideally from Bob Madara :)

4. I can get most of the way to where I want to be with a .060" overbore (or is it .100" ?) and doing a 540 kit is not necessary or all that desirable.

5. I am looking for about 9 to 1 compression.

Anything else I'm missing? Suggestions?

Thanks again for all the responses, I want to keep this or another thread going as I do this build, seems like it should be a cool project.


1) correct

2)injectors will probably be too small, you will likely need 50# to 55#, yours are 38# to 42#

3)correct

4)540 kit is not necessary, but every bit helps. Not sure about amount of bore for a 540

5)that compression is good for 89, more compression will make more power and better sound but eventually require higher octane.

Tony M
12-07-2009, 09:22 AM
Tyler is the go to man . got my 502ci to 540ci with a 525 intake, recam , 50# injectors all in all we got a 540 that is 656hp/647tq@5100

Ted
12-07-2009, 09:30 AM
Tyler is the go to man . got my 502ci to 540ci with a 525 intake, recam , 50# injectors all in all we got a 540 that is 656hp/647tq@5100


And with that kind of power I would be spitting Bravo parts all over the Bay :ack2::sifone:

I would love to work with Tyler, but the cost of shipping the motors up for dyno time is prohibitive. Fortunately I have great resources here also like Dave (mdg) so I think as soon as I can get my plan together I should be able to get what I want without busting my budget (too far) :bump:

Chris
12-07-2009, 11:46 AM
Ted- are your drives XR's?

Ted
12-07-2009, 11:59 AM
Ted- are your drives XR's?


No, standard Bravos.

Bill N
12-07-2009, 01:03 PM
And with that kind of power I would be spitting Bravo parts all over the Bay :ack2::sifone:

I would love to work with Tyler, but the cost of shipping the motors up for dyno time is prohibitive. Fortunately I have great resources here also like Dave (mdg) so I think as soon as I can get my plan together I should be able to get what I want without busting my budget (too far) :bump:

Hey Ted Like Geronimo said JC Performance did a great job with my 454 MAg & they saved the tune. Mine made 515hp with the stock injectors & intake. Jeff was very reasonable so you might want to give him a call.

Ted
12-07-2009, 01:10 PM
Hey Ted Like Geronimo said JC Performance did a great job with my 454 MAg & they saved the tune. Mine made 515hp with the stock injectors & intake. Jeff was very reasonable so you might want to give him a call.

Thanks for the heads up Bill I'll keep it in mind.

Tony M
12-07-2009, 01:43 PM
Bill N Looks like you got a Formula maybe a 271 how you doing MPH. pm me .

t500hps
12-07-2009, 02:19 PM
And with that kind of power I would be spitting Bravo parts all over the Bay :ack2::sifone:

I would love to work with Tyler, but the cost of shipping the motors up for dyno time is prohibitive. Fortunately I have great resources here also like Dave (mdg) so I think as soon as I can get my plan together I should be able to get what I want without busting my budget (too far) :bump:

If you paying someone to do the build, I've heard great things about Dave as well. He also supplied me with some parts I needed at more than reasonable prices.....per Offshoredrillin's recomendations. Take it to him and let him determine what's needed, he's got to warranty the thing anyway!!! :)

sledge
12-07-2009, 02:35 PM
Keep it simple: heads and cam plus whatever intake mods might be worthy (assuming block/rotating assly are OK). If you get a good deal on the AS&M/500/525 intakes...well they sure are pretty. FWIW, a (lightly modded) 525SC/TRS spinning 28p B1s can see 80mph (Jay's boat, in Sweden now). I'd expect similar out of a 525EFI "clone".

Random brain fart....those 502MPI intake/fuel setups might be nice for someone who was thinking about turning a couple 454MAGs into 496s and going EFI...

Ted
12-07-2009, 02:43 PM
Keep it simple: heads and cam plus whatever intake mods might be worthy (assuming block/rotating assly are OK). If you get a good deal on the AS&M/500/525 intakes...well they sure are pretty. FWIW, a (lightly modded) 525SC/TRS spinning 28p B1s can see 80mph (Jay's boat, in Sweden now). I'd expect similar out of a 525EFI "clone".

Random brain fart....those 502MPI intake/fuel setups might be nice for someone who was thinking about turning a couple 454MAGs into 496s and going EFI...

My shortblocks are in need of rebuild, this is the reason for this exercise:sifone:. I am not dead set on the number or the speed, but if I'm doing it and can get a decent increase for a relatively low investment then I will. And I will have some parts to sell to recoup my investment when it's over.

C_Spray
12-07-2009, 10:14 PM
Here you go, Ted - two Lingenfelter 502/540 EFI/Ignition kits:
http://www.seriousoffshore.com/classifieds/index.php?page=out&id=421

Ted
12-08-2009, 09:45 AM
Here you go, Ted - two Lingenfelter 502/540 EFI/Ignition kits:
http://www.seriousoffshore.com/classifieds/index.php?page=out&id=421


Okay, now I'm confused, those look like standard 502 MPI manifolds like I have with a cool fuel pump, and they made 540 hp with it? So then I would have to assume that they were massaged as discussed earlier in the thread. I will admit that I like the look of the HP500/525 manifolds a lot better so that would certainly be my first choice, just curious that Lingenfelter would use those manifolds.

t500hps
12-08-2009, 09:58 AM
I'm willing to bet those are the top ends off a completely different motor built by Lingenfelter...they just happen to use the 502mag intake. Weren't those made back when that was the best intake Merc made (pre 500EFI's)? 540hp is possible with that intake, but that's probably maxed out with cam and other goodies. I bet someone removed them for carb's or 500 intakes to get more power.

Geronimo36
12-08-2009, 09:59 AM
Probably extrude honed and bigger t-body?????

How about the modification Crocket does and puts a t-body on top. It's on a 500 intake but same principal??? http://www.youtube.com/user/crockettmarine#p/u/4/kT8FmzMo2Uw

C_Spray
12-08-2009, 12:12 PM
Call the source - http://www.lingenfelter.com/ (260) 724-2552 They'll know.

sledge
12-08-2009, 12:40 PM
Didn't Lingenfelter design the MPI/EFI intake?

mdgperf
12-08-2009, 09:02 PM
Lingefelter design that intake for merc back around 1992-1993,he use to also make a 540 kit that was a modified intake,ported,shorten runners,camshaft,and re-program ecm,he was one of the few that could reprogram the mefi back then.A lot of those intakes were removed back then and were replaced with a good carb and intake for more easy power,modified those old 502 mpi were i guess just ok not great,the stock hp500-525 intake probably still flows better,anyone ever tested one against the other?Also the mefi 3-4 do a better job controlling the injectors then the old 1-2 mefi,seem to burn cleaner and easier to keep a good tune

northernoffshore
12-09-2009, 05:45 PM
2 -540's for sale brand new,20000.00 239-437-9480 jay

northernoffshore
12-09-2009, 05:47 PM
more pics

Ted
12-09-2009, 05:59 PM
Thanks for the offer Jay, but I am really looking to build my short blocks and maybe do a little dyno time and be good to go, those look sweet though.