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bajabob 718
11-15-2009, 06:20 PM
wt do you think?????:bigear:

MarylandMark
11-15-2009, 06:29 PM
I think I need glasses but the graph looks like it looks good!

Griff
11-16-2009, 03:42 AM
I've got a 24inch monitor and can't hardly read chit on it:confused:

jhenrie
11-16-2009, 08:55 AM
The motor may be good to go but buy a new camera.

Rookie
11-16-2009, 09:06 AM
wt do you think?????:bigear:

Did you redo your....I think a 540?

bajabob 718
11-16-2009, 10:58 AM
sorry about the picture i try to make bigger it is not working for me. rookie yes i redone the 540 and made it a lot better

Trim'd Up
11-16-2009, 11:09 AM
What were the peak numbers? I guess my eyes aren't good enough. :D

bajabob 718
11-16-2009, 03:28 PM
i hope this come out better

bajabob 718
11-16-2009, 03:47 PM
here my motor on the dyno trying the spacers that go under the carb . they do work

jeffswav
11-16-2009, 03:59 PM
Did they check that with wideband or narrowband O2? Looks a little lean at spots. I have mine at 12.5 in the higher RPM range. Are you planning on running it at peak RPM? 6100 RPM is pretty high for a Bravo Drive. Even if you only run 5500 RPM that is still really good power. How does it Idle? I used RMbuilder for my cam and I was blown away by the power and drivabillity.

bajabob 718
11-16-2009, 04:16 PM
jeff i am not shore on the band use . i am prop my boat at 5500rpm . rmbuilder is a real nice guy he no alot about cams i talk to him i got good info from him . how did your motor come out

jeffswav
11-16-2009, 04:30 PM
jeff i am not shore on the band use . i am prop my boat at 5500rpm . rmbuilder is a real nice guy he no alot about cams i talk to him i got good info from him . how did your motor come out

I have a 489 stroker with large ovals heads and Holley MPI with wideband O2. When I switched from the (performance) flat tappet cam to the Roller I gained 5MPH and better idle. I used the Isky springs and Moral lifters. Bob said to expect 500HP, I think I was about 450 before the cam swap. I think I gained at least 50HP. He set my cam up to make peak power at 5400 RPM. I tried a few props after the upgrade. I could pull a 21 pitch prop over 5600 RPM, the 23 pitch will pull 5400 RPM and my labbed 25 pitch pulls 5000 with the best speed of 70MPH. I am raising the x dim up 3" this winter. My propshaft is 8" below now that will raise it to 5".

bajabob 718
11-16-2009, 04:48 PM
jeff that great70mph . my old motor .i did 66.6 gps 71on dream speedo. now with this 540 i am over 80mph i can t wait for summer .

Geronimo36
11-16-2009, 05:09 PM
Don't mean to bear bad news or pick on the setup but the cam seems too big to me. Torque peaked at 5300 rpms, that's very high for a boat engine, even naturally aspirated...

Anyone else?

jeffswav
11-16-2009, 06:22 PM
Don't mean to bear bad news or pick on the setup but the cam seems too big to me. Torque peaked at 5300 rpms, that's very high for a boat engine, even naturally aspirated...

Anyone else?

I agree, you want your peak HP at about 5500 not at 6100. If it were mine I would get a cam from Bob. I went through all of this before, cut your losses on the cam and get one that works best in your RPM range. Just my .02 cents.

Geronimo36
11-16-2009, 06:43 PM
Peak torque is usually 1000 rpms lower than your peak HP and you want to get you PK tq about 1k lower than your target RPM range. If you plan to run the engine at 5500 rpms and pk torque is at 5300 you're going to be loading the engine which could cause detonation and possibly some blown bravo drives.

JFM
11-16-2009, 09:34 PM
Good to see ya got the motor back together again. Hope that it is better for you this time.

Rookie
11-17-2009, 12:23 AM
If you plan to run the engine at 5500 rpms and pk torque is at 5300 you're going to be loading the engine which could cause detonation

I have to agree with Geronimo, you will be loading the engine pretty hard. I saw twin 496's (stroked 454) die an early life cause the guy propped it at or just below peak torque. The engine was losing power, after tear down the engine looked like it had 500 hard hours on it.

I would prop it to 5800-5900 it will be a lot easier on the engine in the long run.

Your dyno sheet looks almost identical to my dyno sheet, you seem to be on the low side for torque on a 540. What heads are you running and any work to them?

Raylar
11-17-2009, 02:26 AM
I would agree with others here, that cam you have in that engine seems to be to big on the top end and running that setup at 5500rpms will be so to speak lugging the engine that far below the HP peak. The peak toque should be down around 4300 to 4500 rpms, not at 5500rpms. The duration numbers must be really large on this cam and I suspect some potential reversion issues at a decent idle rpm??

Good Luck with your engine project.

Best Regards,
Ray @ Raylar

Pismo10
11-17-2009, 09:18 AM
Seems a little more automotive.

bajabob 718
11-17-2009, 09:21 AM
i am runnig dart pro 1 heads . dart single plane maniflod 1000holley carb . ss dry headers. so i prop my boat at 6000 and when i drive it i will run it up to 5500rpm will that be fine i dont want to to many rpm to hurt the drive??

Rookie
11-17-2009, 09:35 AM
I believe the smaller wheel prop and spinning it to 6000 will be easier on the drive and engine. If the engine was properly balanced this should really be no issue.

What size Pro 1's did you get 310's or 325's?

Geronimo36
11-17-2009, 09:54 AM
i am runnig dart pro 1 heads . dart single plane maniflod 1000holley carb . ss dry headers. so i prop my boat at 6000 and when i drive it i will run it up to 5500rpm will that be fine i dont want to to many rpm to hurt the drive??

Are you running a solid or hydraulic roller cam?

6K is pushing it for hydraulic roller setup...5800 is safer but then you're too close to peak torque in my opinion.

Also, on the dyno sheet your HP numbers were still climbing at 6100.... cam must have a lot of duration... I think you need a Crane 741 if you can find it...should be good for 625-650 hp at 5600 - 5800 rpms and peak torque around 4500-4800, that's just a guess though.. ;)

bajabob 718
11-17-2009, 11:04 AM
Are you running a solid or hydraulic roller cam?

6K is pushing it for hydraulic roller setup...5800 is safer but then you're too close to peak torque in my opinion.

Also, on the dyno sheet your HP numbers were still climbing at 6100.... cam must have a lot of duration... I think you need a Crane 741 if you can find it...should be good for 625-650 hp at 5600 - 5800 rpms and peak torque around 4500-4800, that's just a guess though.. ;)your set up is better than mine. . pro1 345 heads roller cam intake606 lift exhaust 617 lift duration .050 in 236 ex 244 lobe sep 112.0 ..my timming is 34degrees

Trim'd Up
11-17-2009, 12:10 PM
Isn't your motor from Teague? I would be willing to bet you could make better numbers with a smaller head, along with much better throttle response, but I am no expert. That cam isn't big for a 540. It is smaller than the one Bob set me up with for my 548.

Thunderstruck
11-17-2009, 12:18 PM
I agree with the others on the cam. Get a custom cam from Bob Madara. With AFR heads and his cams I made 595 hp with a 502 at 5500 rpm with 600 lb ft torque at 4200 rpm. My cam is <.6 lift on I and E with 228 and 232 duration at .05 or close to it.

Another customer of Bob's made 675 hp with 540's.

Thunderstruck
11-17-2009, 12:19 PM
Oops, didnt see it but what is your compression. Need to up the compression to keep the cylinder temps up with aluminum heads. I am 9.6:1.

Rookie
11-17-2009, 03:27 PM
Your 345's are to big killing air velocity and your torque. Your heads might be more of an issue than the cam. I also believe that is why you are spinning so many rpms to make your power.

Geronimo36
11-17-2009, 03:33 PM
your set up is better than mine. . pro1 345 heads roller cam intake606 lift exhaust 617 lift duration .050 in 236 ex 244 lobe sep 112.0 ..my timming is 34degrees

Its from a friends 522" engine with Merlin Heads and Dominators.


Your 345's are to big killing air velocity and your torque. Your heads might be more of an issue than the cam. I also believe that is why you are spinning so many rpms to make your power.

I hear ya! After seeing his cam numbers something else is a miss cause that cam isn't too big at all! Matter of fact, with the right heads I think the cam could then become the limiting factor.

PS, I'd like to have his heads on my blower engines! ;)

bajabob 718
11-17-2009, 04:21 PM
you guys are rigth . the heads are to big. last summer i had problems with the springs i change them and the boat ran good . 1 was runnig 80 to 85mph depening on the weather i ran 5500 and all was good good pickup and top end was good

Rookie
11-17-2009, 05:11 PM
PS, I'd like to have his heads on my blower engines! ;)

I already thought you had good heads? or are you running Iron heads?


you guys are rigth . the heads are to big. last summer i had problems with the springs i change them and the boat ran good . 1 was runnig 80 to 85mph depening on the weather i ran 5500 and all was good good pickup and top end was good

I would just prop it to 6000 and then rev limit it @ 5800. I'm sure it still is going to FLY!

bajabob 718
11-17-2009, 05:20 PM
I already thought you had good heads? or are you running Iron heads?



I would just prop it to 6000 and then rev limit it @ 5800. I'm sure it still is going to FLY! that wt i think i am doing a have msd i put a 6000chip , my engine bluider balance my motor and fly wheel

Geronimo36
11-17-2009, 06:06 PM
I already thought you had good heads? or are you running Iron heads?

Iron Grumpy's, low boost...

would be nice to run them puppies and even lower boost or f'it and more boost!:willy_nilly:


I would just prop it to 6000 and then rev limit it @ 5800. I'm sure it still is going to FLY!

Do you mean rev limit @ 6k?

Rookie
11-17-2009, 08:18 PM
I just left the shop and these were laying on the bench. This is a Pro1 345-350cc that is getting ported and the floors welded up to get most flow with smallest area to increase velocity. I think these will be going on a 565.

Rookie
11-17-2009, 08:24 PM
Iron Grumpy's, low boost...

would be nice to run them puppies and even lower boost or f'it and more boost!:willy_nilly:



Do you mean rev limit @ 6k?

F'it and more boost! If it's there you have to use it!

yeah 6K, i'm dumb sometimes.......

MERPerformance
11-17-2009, 09:18 PM
I looked at this post last night and the dyno sheets didn't look right. I have a Stuska dyno and use Performance Trends data loging. The pull looks to me that the engine wasn't properly loaded until you were in the 5000 rpms. Look at the final averages, is the cam so bad that you only have about 500 rpms between peak torque and peak HP? You are only showing 80 + hp at 3000 rpms thats not right! If your dyno operator, doesn't have a automatic load control valve and he's trying to make a pull from the low to the high rpms, he should try loading the engine at 6000 rpms and pull the load down at a rate of 14-18 sec. He should be able to pull it down to 2500-2000 rpms. Also there is no correction factor, weather conditions. Does he have a Black Box Weather Station? Your A/F ratio at the lower rpms tells me that the engine is not loaded properly by the brake.
I agree with others that the heads are too large. You should be around a 320 runner, that 345 should be on a 572 or larger. The cam is unknown to me, I think your # should be alot better than that. I have done 540s with not so good heads and a solid cam and make 700 hp easy. Take a good set of heads done right, the right cam, built right from the start and go above that.

bajabob 718
11-17-2009, 09:57 PM
MERPerformance can you look at this pull he run this one with 98jets in the carb . i beleave the dyno brake look like he trun a dail handle as he gave it throtle

Geronimo36
11-18-2009, 11:08 AM
Looks like Mer hit the nail on the head with this one! Just goes to show what experience is for! That last sheet looks better to me with pk torque at 4800 but it would be nice to see one from 4k to 6K. Out of curiosity, why is he doing pulls all over the map and different loads?

All the dyno's I've seen they fully load at 4k rpms or so and pull to or just just past max HP. Then I have them do steady-state at various rpms.

Here's one my pulls and the dyno sheet at the end from Ritchie Zul's shop a few years ago;
nqlWw0_4Fh0.

jeffswav
11-18-2009, 08:13 PM
I have blown my engine up many times. I have learned alot as I have went, mostly from the forums and guys like Bob RMbuilder. I run Large Oval Heads on a 489 so I am not that familiar with the Big Rec heads. It sounds to me you could probably sell or trade the heads you have for the smaller ones. Try to get your peak power at 5500 RPM. The boat will Idle and Plane off much better than a engine that builds its power at a place you will never use. I know you talked to Bob about a cam before you did the first build. I would have taken his advice whatever that was. Someone is leading you in the wrong direction and I hope this all works out for you. Good Luck!!

bajabob 718
11-18-2009, 09:34 PM
ha jeff thanks i did tolk to bob we talk on phone a lot and he was a busy man he waS HOOKING ME UP WITH A CAM I DON T NO WT HAPPEN???? MT BUDDY THAT RACES A 38 FOOT FOUTIAN HOOK ME UP WITH THIS GUY . I AM AT THE PIONT THAT I JUST WANT TO GET OUT OF BOATING

DAREDEVIL
11-18-2009, 09:36 PM
ha jeff thanks i did tolk to bob we talk on phone a lot and he was a busy man he was hooking me up with a cam i don t no wt happen???? Mt buddy that races a 38 foot foutian hook me up with this guy . I am at the piont that i just want to get out of boating

my offer stands !!!!!! :USA:

jeffswav
11-18-2009, 10:06 PM
ha jeff thanks i did tolk to bob we talk on phone a lot and he was a busy man he waS HOOKING ME UP WITH A CAM I DON T NO WT HAPPEN???? MT BUDDY THAT RACES A 38 FOOT FOUTIAN HOOK ME UP WITH THIS GUY . I AM AT THE PIONT THAT I JUST WANT TO GET OUT OF BOATINGHey, do not get discouraged. I have had the engine out of my boat 4 or 5 times. Getting ready to do it again to work on the transom. I emailed Bob a couple of days ago. He remembered talking to you. Somthing must have made him nervous about your project. He gives the best service and advice I have ever found. Reminds me of the way I do business. Hard to find anymore. If it were my project I would want it set up the way I was going to use it. Not a Drag Car engine in a boat. If you were going to race it every weekend and had a Drive rated for 1000+ HP that would be different. Do you do any of the work yourself? You have the engine out of the boat. I would pull the heads and put them on the "Swap Shop" somone may trade you a set that you need. After that I would get a custom grind to match your setup.

Sledge Hammer
11-18-2009, 10:30 PM
Are you sure that last dyno sheet is for your motor? If you page to the bottom it says it has a 4.030 bore, 3.385 stroke, 5.7 rods and 12.7 to 1 compression ratio. Sounds more like a small block. It is not a 540. Perhaps the data on the bottom of the sheet is not for your engine, but then I would question if the data at the top is.

MERPerformance
11-18-2009, 10:45 PM
Are you sure that last dyno sheet is for your motor? If you page to the bottom it says it has a 4.030 bore, 3.385 stroke, 5.7 rods and 12.7 to 1 compression ratio. Sounds more like a small block. It is not a 540. Perhaps the data on the bottom of the sheet is not for your engine, but then I would question if the data at the top is.
The dyno operator didn't fill in the engine spec. sheet for that engine, he made a pull on a other engine file, no big deal. But if you are going to give a dyno sheet to a customer, it better be filled out correctly. I would like to see the TEST CONDITIONS, weather/ correction factor.

Trim'd Up
11-18-2009, 10:45 PM
I might be willing to trade a set of ported Iron Eagles for the pro 1's I am going blown next season and would like to go to aluminum heads.

MERPerformance
11-18-2009, 11:04 PM
MERPerformance can you look at this pull he run this one with 98jets in the carb . i beleave the dyno brake look like he trun a dail handle as he gave it throtle
I looked at the dyno sheet. Is the engine still on the dyno? Whats the deal with the operator? 1st sheet shows peak torque @ 5500, now you show us a sheet @ 4800 peak torque. As I stated before, take the engine up to 6200 load the engine stabilize it load it on nice clean sweep down to 2500 rpms. The test showing 4800 rpms peak torque makes sense. I feel the peak torque rpm isn't going to come down any lower. I just don't understand why the sheet doesn't read below 4800 rpms.

MERPerformance
11-18-2009, 11:09 PM
I might be willing to trade a set of ported Iron Eagles for the pro 1's I am going blown next season and would like to go to aluminum heads.
Do you want a new 8-71 BDS polished tall deck, belt, pulley, superchiller? Great deal.

Trim'd Up
11-18-2009, 11:15 PM
Do you want a new 8-71 BDS polished tall deck, belt, pulley, superchiller? Great deal.

Possibly, I would need to get a new intake or have it machined for a short deck. PM me a price.:sifone:

Rookie
11-19-2009, 01:05 AM
I AM AT THE PIONT THAT I JUST WANT TO GET OUT OF BOATING

I don't think that you have that bad of a setup. The cam does not look that bad, and the heads are big but that does not mean they are bad. My best friend is running a 540 with THE 741 cam and Edelbrock heads. His dyno #'s were 630HP @ 5850 and his 24 Baja just breaks low 80's. We can all judge and tell you what we think about the "Dyno" numbers but the only true dyno is in your boat and running it. As I stated earlier lightest and best conditions prop it to 6000. The boat is gonna fly, enjoy it. :)

I was told when dynoing different cams for the raceboat the cam that made the most power on the dyno was actually slower in the boat, and the cam with the second best #'s ran the fastest. So take the dyno as a referral and when it is in the boat you are still going to have to tune a little more.

bajabob 718
11-19-2009, 08:03 AM
The dyno operator didn't fill in the engine spec. sheet for that engine, he made a pull on a other engine file, no big deal. But if you are going to give a dyno sheet to a customer, it better be filled out correctly. I would like to see the TEST CONDITIONS, weather/ correction factor. you are rigth he did some pull when i was there it was 70degree out nice day here a video i took with my camera.he did about 7pulls that day he try 3 kinds of spacers that go under the carb . i was amaze when i touch the spacer it was like a ice cube it was very cold.the spacer with the 4holes was the best

Geronimo36
11-19-2009, 09:50 AM
Do you want a new 8-71 BDS polished tall deck, belt, pulley, superchiller? Great deal.

If he's not interested in the intake please let me know the price on the intake. water passages on mine need some cleaning up so I might just buy a new one if the price is right.

MERPerformance
11-19-2009, 09:24 PM
If he's not interested in the intake please let me know the price on the intake. water passages on mine need some cleaning up so I might just buy a new one if the price is right.

What I can do is sell you the BDS intake at the same price I would buy a std deck polished from the blower shop and both of you would have what you need andI can move this off my list. I buy at OEM so the deal would be at my cost.

Geronimo36
11-21-2009, 03:46 PM
Mer, can you PM me the price please!

AIR TIME
11-29-2009, 10:49 PM
you guys are rigth . the heads are to big. last summer i had problems with the springs i change them and the boat ran good . 1 was runnig 80 to 85mph depening on the weather i ran 5500 and all was good good pickup and top end was good

what rpm what prop, my old 509 made 600hp at 5100 and made 670hp at 6000 then fell off . tq was at 4800 637.

DAREDEVIL
11-29-2009, 11:05 PM
what rpm what prop, my old 509 made 600hp at 5100 and made 670hp at 6000 then fell off . tq was at 4800 637.

Sounds like my engine on 93 !!!!!

@ 6000 made 666 HP ( devil# ) and 642 tg @ 5000 ! LOL

Its in the classifieds !!!!!!! :seeya:

bajabob 718
11-30-2009, 03:53 PM
what rpm what prop, my old 509 made 600hp at 5100 and made 670hp at 6000 then fell off . tq was at 4800 637.

wt up air time ? iam installing my motor next week and putinig a better radio and speakers . i have to wait till spring to test my boat april . i will post how the boat runs thanks for everybodys input:cheers2::cheers2::cheers2: