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View Full Version : John Carbonell of SBI lives up to his BAD reputation!



Lubejobs42
11-12-2008, 02:05 AM
The one thing I have always loved about our sport is how everyone is always willing to help if there is a problem. This weekend was no different except one person. Comments made by this person blew me away as I believe that directly and indirectly he has to thank for all of us for his lively hood and how he went out of his way to be a complete jerk.

This was a big weekend for us, we had a few of Mercedes Benz big shots come down to Key West. After reading all the mags I've been sending them for a year they wanted to come down and see for themselves what the Poker runs are like and if they should concentrate more on advertising in this area. They have been asking my advise as to where I feel the best area for them to become more visible. I of coarse feel Poker runs get the most exposure between all the Magazines and Powerboating in Paradise tv show. Some of them think putting $$ into Racing is the way to go.

The plan was to take these guys for a ride in the Mercedes boat and then introduce them to everyone. We had a problem with the boat on the way down. Nothing serious but we did need some help. The guys from Aquamania offered us the use of their pit area along with their crew and equipment. Mike from Sterling was in the next pit and was also going to help. We were told the Doug Wright cat was unable to attend the Duval street parade and they were short one boat and we could take his spot for $500. We thought would be great exposure for Mercedes and help SBI out since they were short a boat. With these 2 things in mind we headed to the pits to talk to John Carbonell and take care of our issue.
When bringing the boat to Aquamanias pit we were stopped by an SBI pit attendant and he said "John Carbonell said to get that boat out of here now"! We told him we were going to go over and talk to John right now. The attendant was very persistent that we stopped in our tracks to go and talk with him, which we did. Of coarse I had every intention of paying SBI what ever they needed.

I walked over to Carbonell with Larry Goldman who is a current SBI racer with Aquamania. As we walked up to John, Larry immediately put out his hand and said "Great turn out" and shook Johns hand. Johns reply was "get that boat out of here now!" Larry tried explaining what we were planning on doing. Larry, which is the fastest talker know was able to spit out "What we" and immediately he was cut off with, "get it out of here now". Larry tried again to explain "we want to pay...." again, "get it out!!" He then said "I will have nothing to do with Stu Jones, Poker run guys or boats, get it out of the pits now"!
Larry said, "How about the parade", pulling money out of his pocket to pay the $500. John then said "I'm not Stu Jones, I don't take payoffs"." I'm not letting that boat in the parade, forget it"


This is where I voiced my opinion of John, walked away and left the pits. I want to again reiterate, I was more than happy to pay what every I needed to pay to handle this. I also thought Carbonell would be somewhat happy we were there as we were told he had a problem being short one boat for the parade! His attitude was completley unexpected!


The Aquamania guys were really pissed as they pay for their entire pit area and are allowed to park what they want within their assigned area and wanted to argue with John but I didn't want it to get to that.

What a miserable guy! I don't know what his problem is with Poker run boats or Stu but obviously we are not welcome around SBI. I feel if it wasn't for the poker runners, Key West would not be nealy what it is. I completely understand there are rules and John had a lot going on but he was so rude and nasty. He was an absolute nasty jerk and completly disrespectful to Larry Goldman for no reason at all. I have heard so many people talk bad about John, I guess thats why he has the attendance he has at his races. It's really too bad. I only wish he knew the opportunity that was right under his nose, had he been a decent guy, he may have ended up with Mercedes as one of his Key sponsors for next year.

We didn't get to take the guys for a ride in the Mercedes boat but I got them to have dinner at Racheals Monday night, they are very happy and will continue their support. Just need to come up with some new ideas for them, SBI will not be a consideration!!

stecz20
11-12-2008, 02:11 AM
i was wondering where you were....

catmando
11-12-2008, 03:42 AM
I heard he doesn't like Haggin either. I've never met the man but I have seen him in action at his races and it looks like he rules with an iron hand(and a head to match).

Ratickle
11-12-2008, 06:26 AM
That's too bad Gino, heard about it some from a couple others, (Thought maybe you were handing the wrong people shirts.:)) Maybe it does help explain why the turnout for the races keep getting smaller.

Kept trying to catch up with you but you were always in the truck or Lambo, (How about that guy on Duval?), and we were never quite in the right spot. Next time.

boatme
11-12-2008, 06:28 AM
Gino,

Sorry to hear you had such a problem I have heard some of the same things everyone else has about John, and I think he is just stupid to not embrace you and the other poker runners. I been preaching that the poker runners could help be the future of Offshore racing and then John does something stupid like what he did to you. I am so sorry to here this happened to you

This just tells you how things have changed. We had an entirely different experience with the racing group, a number of years ago I wish things were still like they were in those days.
A number of years ago, we blew a drive in our cigarette on the KW poker run and found ourselves stuck in Marathon. After an all night fiasco to get the truck and trailer in Miami, and come back and get the boat in Marathon we towed it into KW. We had a drive to put on the boat, and I had all the tools except one thing I forgot and needed. I ran into Vic Spellburg from formula racing and asked to borrow that tool. Vic said “just bring your boat to the race pits and you are free to use what ever you want at the formula trailer to get your boat going”. We towed our cigarette into the race pits, and the formula guys even helped me pull the drive and hoist on the new one, we got things buttoned up and we put the boat back in the water for the rest of the weekend. It was a great experience to be helped by the racers, and how it should be since we all are enthusiast of the same sport. The jokes all weekend were directed to the formula guys about why they had a Cigarette in the Formula pits. They were way cool about the experience

Some times people only see the short side of things and not the future potential

Your story really serves to set back the ideas I have had with the racing organizations working closer with the poker runners. Do not be totally put off; one bad apple doesn’t ruin the entire bunch. It seems you found the one apple that is rotten to the core. Gino you are a class act, and a great promoter of offshore boating don’t be discouraged by one guy who doesn’t seem care about where the sport is headed. We need new Ideas, fresh blood, and additional sponsorship in the sport to keep it going. Stay with us my friend, some of care a lot about the sport and are interested in having guys like you keep it alive.

Marc

SHARKEY-IMAGES
11-12-2008, 07:31 AM
Sounds like the JC I remember.

Last year I attended his Panama City race with the Geico Team.

No one else was there to professionally photograph his event from the air but me. I wanted to make sure I did things right with him and SBI. I just could not afford to. He wanted $1000 from me in order for me to shoot his race plus all of the copies & copyrights to the images I shot. Also wanted me to sign a contract that they could not provide and to this day I did not receive. They eventually said being as I was shooting for Geico, than that would be the only boat I could take pics of.

Total BS!. I shot everything I could that day being as I was in a chopper. I just never offered them for sale.

This organization does not deserve the exposure and promotions with my photos...

Until he is able to take his races out of the public venue and have everyone that has a camera in their hand follow his rules, I will shoot what I want where I want as long as it is in the view of the public...

It does not surprise me how he treated you.

I think the Poker Run should move their date up 2 weeks so SBI does not get the impression he has lured all of the Poker Run boats there and uses that to get his money from the Conch Republic.

stainless
11-12-2008, 08:34 AM
John and Reggie are tight .. Prob was their only chance to take a shot at the cat killer killer!

BUIZILLA
11-12-2008, 08:36 AM
with Bud Light pulling promo $$$$, Benz could have been a natural fit... AMG is spending huge dollars promoting the 63 series stuff...

if all the poker boats pull out of that weekend, as in boycott, which they should do at this point, the town fathers to be, restaurants, bars, and the hotels, won't be happy...

maybe Benz should support Stu, move it up one to two weeks, and go from there.... pokers don't really care about the race, it's about the RUN, the racers care about the pokers because it's spectator exposure... gotta be a two way street, one way dead end's don't work...

spectators buy the Benz cars
pokers buy the Benz cars

racers and crew members DON'T buy the cars (no insult intended) they buy the trucks...

just my .02

Wrinkleface
11-12-2008, 08:41 AM
Sad people R like that!!!

cigdaze
11-12-2008, 08:43 AM
Disappointing. But I'd be willing to bet it's because of the cat killer / fountain killer thing. Without the reggie show, JC is bust.

Sean H
11-12-2008, 08:47 AM
same reason that supercatracing.com, talkoffshore and anything else that may be good for the sport wasn't there, the man doesn't want good exposure.

another genuis move on JC's part, no safety during testing... not one helo to be seen.

but hey it's his show, let him run it into the ground however he wants.. 20 less boats this year than last year.

NNRT
11-12-2008, 08:56 AM
John has not changed- I always refused to pay him off - no way - races take place in the Public Domain - even the parades are on public streets- he thinks he owns everything - he is just plain stupid - what do you expect from a carpet layer - he does not realize the benefits that others bring his org. -its Just money money money - One would think he would say- shoot the race - events - everything - and dont pay me - just give me good press - but instead- he wants bad publicity - and he gets it here - and in other places- there is NO CHANGE in him over 20 years - unfortunately - The best way to handle him, is to ignore him - and just do your things - he has no credibility - Where else can you ask an org. to give you a hard time, ask for more money - and act like a dictator- HELLO HUGO CHAVEZ !

Some day- maybe he will realize who is spending the money to race their boats - and who really is the boss - THE RACERS -

Oh - dont sneeze in the pits - not allowed by JC either !

He must have received a lot of "tips" or pay offs in his Carpet laying business - as he thinks it can be transfered to offshore too -

nothing has changed in all the years he has been there - NOTHING -

BobbyB
11-12-2008, 09:31 AM
I heard there was an issue with a race team about what class they were running and he didnt stick up for them.

Jassman
11-12-2008, 09:55 AM
I dealt with him one time, a few years back....let me just say...arrogant, egotisticlal....way out of line....I see things have not changed. Jeff

masher44
11-12-2008, 12:08 PM
cant believe this scumbag isnt wearing a tire iron as a hat yet

Wardey
11-12-2008, 12:41 PM
I'm not taking either side but let's look at something here. When you register a race boat, it is included with the insurance policy taken out by SBI. Let's say that if a boat comes in, not registered, and their is an accident, SBI is liable. I'm sure there are other issues playing here, but look at all sides here. Personally, I think it would be cool to have all the boats, Race and Poker Runners all together with huge fan parties in the pits. I know in KW space is tight, but it would be cool. Anyhow just another side without taking sides. Dave

Ted
11-12-2008, 12:59 PM
I'm not taking either side but let's look at something here. When you register a race boat, it is included with the insurance policy taken out by SBI. Let's say that if a boat comes in, not registered, and their is an accident, SBI is liable. I'm sure there are other issues playing here, but look at all sides here. Personally, I think it would be cool to have all the boats, Race and Poker Runners all together with huge fan parties in the pits. I know in KW space is tight, but it would be cool. Anyhow just another side without taking sides. Dave

A year or two ago when John didn't have enough race boats to meet his Conch Republic obligations he did invite all the Poker Run boats to the pits, guess things didn't work out or maybe he has another issue with Stu (not that that should surprise anyone either :leaving: ).

boostbros
11-12-2008, 01:00 PM
yup things have not changed we called him Boss Hogg i think they based the duke of hazzards tv show on J.C. and his antics in the 90s i saw him totaly abuse mr ricky the photo guy it was way out of line in front of our pit he dam near dragged him behind his golf cart out of the pits he was screaming and threatning him....and we wonder why our sport is still in the dark ages? this day in age there needs to be at least an internet broadcast i had to listen to that radio station they had no idea what was going on its frustrating

stainless
11-12-2008, 02:15 PM
Boss Hogg! LMAO!

phragle
11-12-2008, 02:30 PM
why is this man not swimin wit da fishes????

JohnS
11-12-2008, 02:47 PM
You mean you have to pay for a pit spot? and PAY to be in the parade?
WTF???

I guess we're spoiled up here with the OPA. Hell, we don't even pay to race. Just pay to register once.

Master Wrench
11-12-2008, 04:01 PM
Sounds to me its just like this website. The other one pi$$ed everyone off so they started another. The same can happen with a race organization!!!!:26::sifone:

Bullhead
11-12-2008, 04:19 PM
I would be very surprised if Fountain had anything to do with it....I was running a Donzi 38ZR right in their backyard in Washington NC and had some mechanical issues and the folks at the Fountain factory went out of their way to help me out....they told me they always try to help people out because maybe the next time they buy they will consider a Fountain or tell their friends...it worked on me....I've heard that JC was hard to deal with...I know he chewed my a$$ for driving a scooter too fast in the pits

Lubejobs42
11-12-2008, 04:29 PM
I'm not taking either side but let's look at something here. When you register a race boat, it is included with the insurance policy taken out by SBI. Let's say that if a boat comes in, not registered, and their is an accident, SBI is liable. I'm sure there are other issues playing here, but look at all sides here. Personally, I think it would be cool to have all the boats, Race and Poker Runners all together with huge fan parties in the pits. I know in KW space is tight, but it would be cool. Anyhow just another side without taking sides. Dave

Not sure thats actually the case. Many teams had more than 1 boat in their pit area. Several for sale boats as well. If it was an insurance issue he could have easily said that. It was the attitude I have a problem with. We were nice and treated him with respect. Even when I raced with SBI, there were issues i did not agree with, I always treated him with respect. This was the only time I ever disrespected him. I called him an A-hole, I wish I would have said something more colorful.

ApachePete
11-12-2008, 04:30 PM
John has not changed- I always refused to pay him off - no way - races take place in the Public Domain - even the parades are on public streets- he thinks he owns everything - he is just plain stupid - what do you expect from a carpet layer - he does not realize the benefits that others bring his org. -its Just money money money - One would think he would say- shoot the race - events - everything - and dont pay me - just give me good press - but instead- he wants bad publicity - and he gets it here - and in other places- there is NO CHANGE in him over 20 years - unfortunately - The best way to handle him, is to ignore him - and just do your things - he has no credibility - Where else can you ask an org. to give you a hard time, ask for more money - and act like a dictator- HELLO HUGO CHAVEZ !

Some day- maybe he will realize who is spending the money to race their boats - and who really is the boss - THE RACERS -



Oh - dont sneeze in the pits - not allowed by JC either !

He must have received a lot of "tips" or pay offs in his Carpet laying business - as he thinks it can be transfered to offshore too -

nothing has changed in all the years he has been there - NOTHING -

Phillip!

Stop holding back!

Tell us what you REALLY think! :sifone:

Lubejobs42
11-12-2008, 04:30 PM
I would be very surprised if Fountain had anything to do with it....I was running a Donzi 38ZR right in their backyard in Washington NC and had some mechanicle issues and the folks at the Fountain factory went out of their way to help me out....they told me they always try to help people out because maybe the next time they buy they will consider a Fountain or tell their friends...it worked on me....I've heard that JC was hard to deal with...I know he chewed my a$$ for driving a scooter too fast in the pits

It didn't. It all happened way to quick. We saw JC the entire time we were there. He never had a chance to talk to anyone except the attendant he sent over to us.

SHARKEY-IMAGES
11-12-2008, 05:06 PM
I heard there was an issue with a race team about what class they were running and he didnt stick up for them.

I still would like to know how the organization runs all season with a Class called Super Vee Unlimited, "Unlimited= Run all you got !" and 5 Unlimited boats show up to race this class and presto !!! Another class is formed on the spot. So I hear that now there is a Super Vee Unlimited Class One & a Super Vee Unlimited Class Two. I assume Cat Killer wanted to run alone or someone did not want to run against Cat Killer ? It appears FOUNTAIN was looking to get another easy title or two but they under estimated Lucas Oil OUTERLIMITS when they came in to take the overall win in Super Vee Unlimited Class One.

What was the saying Fountain used ? You can run but you can't hide !

Nice try, but people are tired of boats racing by themselves and marketing Championship wins with no competition.

Thanks Lucas Oil for not letting them run by themselves once again !

RumRunner
11-12-2008, 05:06 PM
Sounds like the JC I remember.

Last year I attended his Panama City race with the Geico Team.

No one else was there to professionally photograph his event from the air but me. I wanted to make sure I did things right with him and SBI. I just could not afford to. He wanted $1000 from me in order for me to shoot his race plus all of the copies & copyrights to the images I shot. Also wanted me to sign a contract that they could not provide and to this day I did not receive. They eventually said being as I was shooting for Geico, than that would be the only boat I could take pics of.

Totoal BS!. I shot everything I could that day being as I was in a chopper. I just never offered them for sale.

This organization does not deserve the exposure and promotions with my photos...

Until he is able to take his races out of the public venue and have everyone that has a camera in their hand follow his rules, I will shoot what I want where I want as long as it is in the view of the public...

It does not surprise me how he treated you.

I think the Poker Run should move their date up 2 weeks so SBI does not get the impression he has lured all of the Poker Run boats there and uses that to get his money from the Conch Republic.


I'm sure you know better than I, but it's my understanding that legally you can't stop anyone from taking ANY pictures out in a public area.

I could seem an organization asking for some $ if you were selling the pictures of the event and making money, but if you weren't displaying or marketing from said event then no way.

It's a shame JC is the way he is.

Scarab KV
11-12-2008, 05:21 PM
Disappointing. But I'd be willing to bet it's because of the cat killer / fountain killer thing. Without the reggie show, JC is bust.

Kinda what I was think'n.

SHARKEY-IMAGES
11-12-2008, 05:27 PM
I'm sure you know better than I, but it's my understanding that legally you can't stop anyone from taking ANY pictures out in a public area.


True ! But there are a few areas that you should probably refrain from taking pictures. Government facilities ect.

A race out in open water is not one of them.



I could seem an organization asking for some $ if you were selling the pictures of the event and making money, but if you weren't displaying or marketing from said event then no way.

It's a shame JC is the way he is.

I would be no different than the next spectator taking pics and sharing them online. Let's take Photobucket for example. Whatever you load on their site, they are available for sale. You just don't get the money, Photobucket does.

Does SBI get a check from every magazine or newpaper that covers the event ? I highly doubt it.

Now if I wanted space inside his Pit Area to sell photographs on site, then yes, I would lease the space provided. But he has no right to claim the copyrights of my images when I was the one who shot them.

Is SBI getting a piece of everyone's tee shirt & hat sales ? Hmmm.... Scarey thought isn't it? I suppose he is being as the teams are inside the pits.

RumRunner
11-12-2008, 05:33 PM
True ! But there are a few areas that you should probably refrain from taking pictures. Government facilities ect.

A race out in open water is not one of them.


I was reading about this the other day when I was looking to buy a new camera. Some of the laws are really interesting when it comes to what you actually can do.



I would be no different than the next spectator taking pics and sharing them online. Let's take Photobucket for example. Whatever you load on their site, they are available for sale. You just don't get the money, Photobucket does.

Does SBI get a check from every magazine or newpaper that covers the event ? I highly doubt it.

Now if I wanted space inside his Pit Area to sell photographs on site, then yes, I would lease the space provided. But he has no right to claim the copyrights of my images when I was the one who shot them.

Is SBI getting a piece of everyone's tee shirt & hat sales ? Hmmm.... Scarey thought isn't it? I suppose he is being as the teams are inside the pits.


I was referring to a person going to each of the teams (at the event) to try and sell them pictures. I see it at other racing events all the time. If the "Professional" is there taking photos and trying to sell them they pay something. If they are there working for the Press then the magazine pays something. If it's just someone who enjoys taking pictures and puts them up on their own website then there is no charge.

As far as them getting a "Cut" of everything sold onsite that would not surprise me at all I would actually expect it. It's common with NHRA & NASCAR.

MOBILEMERCMAN
11-12-2008, 05:41 PM
Sharkey,
The unlimited class II was Hard Rock and Taboo,
unlimited class I was Lucas Oil, at Killer, Trumel.

Truth be told if they ran together, Hard Rock was overall V winner 94.82,
Followed by Miccosukee 90.00 and 89.90 Ran 4 races,
Lucas Oil .......................77.39
Cat Killer........................71.2

I think the extra classes were to give the full season SBI boats a fair shake not for cat killer to run alone.

SHARKEY-IMAGES
11-12-2008, 06:29 PM
Sharkey,
The unlimited class II was Hard Rock and Taboo,
unlimited class I was Lucas Oil, at Killer, Trumel.

Truth be told if they ran together, Hard Rock was overall V winner 94.82,
Followed by Miccosukee 90.00 and 89.90 Ran 4 races,
Lucas Oil .......................77.39
Cat Killer........................71.2

I think the extra classes were to give the full season SBI boats a fair shake not for cat killer to run alone.

So why was there a need for another class ?

If they can't run with the big dogs then let them go to P1 Class.

They should have all ran together.

If Hard Rock would have won overall then so be it. But catering and making classes up at the last minute is rediculous.

It's not like they did not know CK was going to be there! The rules are unlimited. They should make their boats competitive if that is where they want to race..

isellpower
11-12-2008, 06:41 PM
Tell the Mercedes guys I love my CLS55 AMG!!!

Fever Mike
11-12-2008, 06:49 PM
Ahh, I miss the good all Mike Alweiss APBA days. Those were some great memories that I truely miss. You all never had it so good!

Fever Mike
11-12-2008, 06:51 PM
Tell the Mercedes guys I love my CLS55 AMG!!!

+1 my wife loves here CLK 550. However we will NEVER buy another Mercedes Benz from the Tampa dealer on Dale Mabry. We will look at Crown in St. Pete next time.

RumRunner
11-12-2008, 07:21 PM
Ahh, I miss the good all Mike Alweiss APBA days. Those were some great memories that I truely miss. You all never had it so good!

Yup...

SHARKEY-IMAGES
11-12-2008, 07:30 PM
As far as them getting a "Cut" of everything sold onsite that would not surprise me at all I would actually expect it. It's common with NHRA & NASCAR.

NHRA & NASCAR you are also purchasing a ticket to enter the arena or stadium. Just as Concerts, some may not allow photography, and it is probably stated in the contract when purchasing the ticket. I went to a concert last year at THE ROCK. I thought for sure I saw somewhere it said no cameras. When entering they were checking bags and I saw cameras being allowed. What 1 person there stated was they did not want Professional Series cameras brought in and they would have to be checked at the door if you had them. Point and Shoots and Camera Phones seemed to be ok....

If I were to ever decide to go to KW ever again, I would find a much more accessible place to shoot from in public vs paying $1000 + to SBI to be in the VIP area and granted permission to use my equipment.

There isn't enough people buying photos to even come close to covering the expenses of getting there let alone to try and pay a vig.

Other events and organizations welcome the coverage and exposure. They seem to see the value of the photos and the people who take the time involved in posting them online to keep people talking about their events.

If no shots were taken in KW, how long would we be talking about the event ?
Probably not as long if pics were there... ;)

SHARKEY-IMAGES
11-12-2008, 07:35 PM
You mean you have to pay for a pit spot? and PAY to be in the parade?
WTF???

I guess we're spoiled up here with the OPA. Hell, we don't even pay to race. Just pay to register once.

Yeah,

He hits everyone up in Key West so that he can put on the Jersey City Event which we all know has to be a losing site for him. There is only one reason I can come up with why he keeps that event every year with 10 or 12 boats showing up...

SHARKEY-IMAGES
11-12-2008, 07:43 PM
A year or two ago when John didn't have enough race boats to meet his Conch Republic obligations he did invite all the Poker Run boats to the pits, guess things didn't work out or maybe he has another issue with Stu (not that that should surprise anyone either :leaving: ).

And now I see what looks like a Poker Run boat was used to start his races... :confused:


http://i314.photobucket.com/albums/ll434/FreezeFrameVideo/4761-1.jpg

mikey
11-12-2008, 07:45 PM
Gino I am sorry about your luck and would have helped in anyway that i could have. Thanks for the shirt and look forward to seeing you over the winter.

SHARKEY-IMAGES
11-12-2008, 07:50 PM
Mikey I hope one day comes that Haggin owns Key West !

Damn! Things could be so much better !

A man can dream can't he ? :sifone:

jet
11-12-2008, 08:30 PM
Mikey I hope one day comes that Haggin owns Key West !

Damn! Things could be so much better !

A man can dream can't he ? :sifone:

now that would be a party and some great racing.........the radio and web cams are no way to enjoy a race but its all I could do this year :(

MarylandMark
11-12-2008, 08:36 PM
+1 my wife loves here CLK 550. However we will NEVER buy another Mercedes Benz from the Tampa dealer on Dale Mabry. We will look at Crown in St. Pete next time.

Mercedes Benz of Delray (http://www.mbdelray.com) and tell'em Gino sent ya!!

mikey
11-12-2008, 09:08 PM
Mikey I hope one day comes that Haggin owns Key West !

Damn! Things could be so much better !

A man can dream can't he ? :sifone:


Sharkey you are right you can always dream. Its hard to tell what the future holds.

Ms PatriYacht
11-12-2008, 11:30 PM
Sounds to me its just like this website. The other one pi$$ed everyone off so they started another. The same can happen with a race organization!!!!:26::sifone:

IMHO two things stand in the way of that happening. He was awarded the rights to run APBA sanctioned races and he also has the rights to the Key West venue locked up for several more years. I know some very good race organizations that are poised and waiting in the wings to step up he if renigs on any of those obligations.

catmando
11-13-2008, 01:36 AM
Mercedes Benz of Delray (http://www.mbdelray.com) and tell'em Gino sent ya!!Yeah Mike I bet Gino can get you a smokin discount there. :sifone:

NNRT
11-13-2008, 05:47 AM
Phillip!

Stop holding back!

Tell us what you REALLY think! :sifone:

Haha - Hi Peter - dont get me started- I had enough of that idiot when I was filming - he forgot that is was YOU and others that were the boss - without you - there is NOTHING - absoutely NOTHING ! I knew that - he never got it !

I provided a service to those that wanted it - including you - No one sponsored me- if something would go wrong with equipment - (ie: Helicopter, recorders - or being in the wrong place) it was all on me - and he wanted a piece of my action- It was like dealing with the Mob when talking to him - One would think he would at least THANK ME - and say - keep giving me the exposure - and what you are doing Phil expands our horizons - however it was the reverse - He was, and IS still just the pot hole in the road to success .

Now, dont get me wound up again Peter !

Happy Thanksgiving to you and your family -

Phil

Pete B
11-13-2008, 09:24 AM
Well just like all the threads involving Offshore racing, it usually ends up pointing out the
low points, yet year in year out people go to KW, because its KW. And no matter who has the reins, there will always be a issue of some sort.

If you dont like the current events, easiest way to change them is not attend. $$$ and numbers speak volumes.

catmando
11-13-2008, 07:39 PM
Reading all this makes me wonder why the racers continue to race with him.

SHARKEY-IMAGES
11-13-2008, 07:48 PM
If you dont like the current events, easiest way to change them is not attend. $$$ and numbers speak volumes.

It's been quite some time since I dragged a race boat to Key West to race. It's also been some time since I even attended the Key West World's. Last I can remember I went down just for 2 or 3 days. Only thing I found I was missing was a great party with some great people.

The day will come when new leadership will take over the reigns... I can wait...

SHARKEY-IMAGES
11-13-2008, 07:52 PM
Reading all this makes me wonder why the racers continue to race with him.
Due to the fact he has a monopoly on the South East. Majority of his participants are from Florida. They are with him because it is close to home. But take one look at the boat count in Jersey City 10 to 12 boats total showed up...

SHARKEY-IMAGES
11-13-2008, 07:56 PM
Haha - Hi Peter - dont get me started- I had enough of that idiot when I was filming - he forgot that is was YOU and others that were the boss - without you - there is NOTHING - absoutely NOTHING ! I knew that - he never got it !

I provided a service to those that wanted it - including you - No one sponsored me- if something would go wrong with equipment - (ie: Helicopter, recorders - or being in the wrong place) it was all on me - and he wanted a piece of my action- It was like dealing with the Mob when talking to him - One would think he would at least THANK ME - and say - keep giving me the exposure - and what you are doing Phil expands our horizons - however it was the reverse - He was, and IS still just the pot hole in the road to success .

Now, dont get me wound up again Peter !

Happy Thanksgiving to you and your family -

Phil

At least this post shows it wasn't just me that has encountered this situation with JC.

Alot of photogs were there this year. I wonder how many he tried to get to sign a contract ? :eek:

Lubejobs42
11-14-2008, 12:37 AM
I have been receiving email after email regarding this situation. Story after story of JC's way of dealing with others in the same fashion I was. I had 5 people suggest I forward this thread to Key West officials, the Mayor and the Conch Board of Directors to let them know how JC's dictatorship has hurt the attendance of race week in Key West year after year. Maybe if the Key West officials realised this they may open up the Annex to other organisations that could really do a good job. I couldn't understand why the other organizations decided to hold their "worlds" in north Florida rather then Key West. Now I see, it's probably because they can't deal with carbonell.
I had an idea, what if we came up with a professional letter "obviously NOT written by me"! and a petition that the Annex should be opened up to other groups that are more willing to work with others that will help our sport. We may have a chance of making a change.
remember years ago? When you would go to the Worlds and there were 120+ boats with thousands of spectators! Maybe we can have that again! Any thoughts??

NNRT
11-14-2008, 06:40 AM
I have been receiving email after email regarding this situation. Story after story of JC's way of dealing with others in the same fashion I was. I had 5 people suggest I forward this thread to Key West officials, the Mayor and the Conch Board of Directors to let them know how JC's dictatorship has hurt the attendance of race week in Key West year after year. Maybe if the Key West officials realised this they may open up the Annex to other organisations that could really do a good job. I couldn't understand why the other organizations decided to hold their "worlds" in north Florida rather then Key West. Now I see, it's probably because they can't deal with carbonell.
I had an idea, what if we came up with a professional letter "obviously NOT written by me"! and a petition that the Annex should be opened up to other groups that are more willing to work with others that will help our sport. We may have a chance of making a change.
remember years ago? When you would go to the Worlds and there were 120+ boats with thousands of spectators! Maybe we can have that again! Any thoughts??



Good Idea - maybe things will change for the better - can't get much worse !

Phil

Fever Mike
11-14-2008, 11:04 AM
Gino, we can change this problem if we all ban together and do this. I am in!

MarylandMark
11-14-2008, 11:30 AM
Gino, we can change this problem if we all ban together and do this. I am in!

+1 Sign me up as well!

Westcoast
11-14-2008, 11:43 AM
Did you tell John you were on the flippin cover of power boat magizine...WTF...:)

boatme
11-14-2008, 12:09 PM
Gino I am in, and am activly working to help this situation now

i will call you next week i would like to talk with you about this further

Time to rally the troops on SOS

Marc

littlenige
11-14-2008, 12:21 PM
Sounds a complete nightmare Gino. I had no idea the guy was SO unpopular! (I'm the wrong side of the pond). I guess my 0.02 cents worth is that if he did have good reason for not wanting the boat in there (insurance or whatever), it's about HOW you communicate with people - he's obviously lacking in that department. What a shame. Thank goodness the Merc Benz folks don't appear to have been put off!

BUIZILLA
11-14-2008, 12:27 PM
leave it to Gino to change a negative to a positive..

your my hero

:biggrinjester:

MOBILEMERCMAN
11-14-2008, 12:31 PM
Guys, you are getting all excited. JC has been this way for years. It is nothing new. It is his home town. Things are not likely to change. Every year its the same thing before Key West some people refuse to go or pay the yearly reg fees to race one race. Others scream quit your crying. Gino not for nothing the pits are tight and he didn't treat you any different then any body else. If he had let you in there would have been 20 more behind you. I am not trying to say everything he does is right and I have had problems with him too. He is what he has always been.

You can support him or not. History keeps repeating only the faces change.

lucky devil
11-14-2008, 12:37 PM
Before you get too spooled-up over this, you might want to consult an attorney about the details of Tortious Interference.

BBB725
11-14-2008, 12:47 PM
I just looked it up

Tortious interference with contract rights can occur where the tortfeasor convinces a party to breach the contract against the plaintiff, or where the tortfeasor disrupts the ability of one party to perform his obligations under the contract, thereby preventing the plaintiff from receiving the performance promised.

catmando
11-14-2008, 02:27 PM
Before you get too spooled-up over this, you might want to consult an attorney about the details of Tortious Interference.Strong litigious first post there dude. Who might you be and why are you injecting legalese into this discussion?

VetteLT193
11-14-2008, 03:28 PM
Before you get too spooled-up over this, you might want to consult an attorney about the details of Tortious Interference.

The truth trumps Tortious Interference.

Tortious interference comes into play when someone does something illegal, or just wrong, in order to kill someone's business... if people are sharing their experiences and they are truthful and honest I can't see how that would come into play.

lucky devil
11-14-2008, 03:57 PM
The truth trumps Tortious Interference.

Tortious interference comes into play when someone does something illegal, or just wrong, in order to kill someone's business... if people are sharing their experiences and they are truthful and honest I can't see how that would come into play.

letting off steam on SOS is one thing but you've got people on here talking about organizing an action against Carbonell with the group in Key West, that's headed by a lawyer!

Ted
11-14-2008, 05:54 PM
You know I think one of the things that most of the founders of SOS agree on is that there does need to be a unified racing series. Maybe not all the groups together all the time, but at a minimum, a unified World Championship. We have shown here what can happen when a like minded and driven set of individuals work towards a goal. If this site can be a part of the solution then so be it. Not necessarily by causing some coup against Bubba, or any dirty dealings with the Conch guys, but just working towards it and dealing with whatever obstacles come up. As time goes on and we grow in size and numbers we need to look into the idea, for the good of the sport (no pun intended). Sure JC has a lock on it and he does things his way, and he rubs people the wrong way, but he has a vast amount of experience and has been a survivor in a sport that has vanquished many. So let's channel all this interest, combine our collective intelligence, and work towards this-from right now. Two weeks or two months before an event is not the time to be trying to make it happen. Hell, it might have to be 2010 even if everyone gets started on it right now, but it needs to happen, after this year I suspect even Bubba knows that.

Buoy
11-14-2008, 06:32 PM
You know I think one of the things that most of the founders of SOS agree on is that there does need to be a unified racing series. Maybe not all the groups together all the time, but at a minimum, a unified World Championship. We have shown here what can happen when a like minded and driven set of individuals work towards a goal. If this site can be a part of the solution then so be it. Not necessarily by causing some coup against Bubba, or any dirty dealings with the Conch guys, but just working towards it and dealing with whatever obstacles come up. As time goes on and we grow in size and numbers we need to look into the idea, for the good of the sport (no pun intended). Sure JC has a lock on it and he does things his way, and he rubs people the wrong way, but he has a vast amount of experience and has been a survivor in a sport that has vanquished many. So let's channel all this interest, combine our collective intelligence, and work towards this-from right now. Two weeks or two months before an event is not the time to be trying to make it happen. Hell, it might have to be 2010 even if everyone gets started on it right now, but it needs to happen, after this year I suspect even Bubba knows that.

Very well said and I certainly agree.
I like the way you also compared it to this site. If some only knew what has gone on behind the scenes...:leaving:
It's really just about a group that all really want to achieve the same end result.

ThrottleUp Props
11-14-2008, 06:39 PM
Ted, I think that is a step in the right direction. Thank you for the positive spin.

Julie
Inspector SBI/APBA/UIM

fund razor
11-14-2008, 06:39 PM
You know I think one of the things that most of the founders of SOS agree on is that there does need to be a unified racing series. Maybe not all the groups together all the time, but at a minimum, a unified World Championship. We have shown here what can happen when a like minded and driven set of individuals work towards a goal. If this site can be a part of the solution then so be it. Not necessarily by causing some coup against Bubba, or any dirty dealings with the Conch guys, but just working towards it and dealing with whatever obstacles come up. As time goes on and we grow in size and numbers we need to look into the idea, for the good of the sport (no pun intended). Sure JC has a lock on it and he does things his way, and he rubs people the wrong way, but he has a vast amount of experience and has been a survivor in a sport that has vanquished many. So let's channel all this interest, combine our collective intelligence, and work towards this-from right now. Two weeks or two months before an event is not the time to be trying to make it happen. Hell, it might have to be 2010 even if everyone gets started on it right now, but it needs to happen, after this year I suspect even Bubba knows that.

That is a great post Ted. Thanks.

Ratickle
11-14-2008, 08:10 PM
You know I think one of the things that most of the founders of SOS agree on is that there does need to be a unified racing series. Maybe not all the groups together all the time, but at a minimum, a unified World Championship. We have shown here what can happen when a like minded and driven set of individuals work towards a goal. If this site can be a part of the solution then so be it.

Correct. I was talking with several of the current and former racers about the situation. Most were not happy with the current systems. If we could even get started with two or three classes where the rules were the same in all three organizations I could start racing again. SV Lite, Stock Cat, and maybe one bigger class would be a good start. To me it sucks that I want to buy a boat and race in a reasonably close area to home and there are plenty of races but they are different orgs.

Chris
11-14-2008, 09:59 PM
Carbonell cashes Key West's checks. Can you imagine if someone (MBZ?) were to write a check to KW? Can you imagine if they had a few sub-sponsors (Rolex, a liquor co, GEICO, others) also in on a unification series? Bring the FPC guys in? Speed trials on non-race days? There's so much more that could go on down there with some creative thinking I honestly don't see anything going on down there that couldn't easily be bettered by great leaps.

The tortious interference thing? If competing in an open marketplace and attempting to take a deal away from another supplier is illegal, we better start building LOTS of prisons. What a laugh that one was.

Bad Idea Baja
11-14-2008, 10:52 PM
Guess that explains why you weren't in good humor when we stopped by you & Larry on the way out of the pits to BS. It was obvious something was up.
The boat looked good anyway, even if it was on the trailer.

lucky devil
11-15-2008, 07:08 AM
The tortious interference thing? If competing in an open marketplace and attempting to take a deal away from another supplier is illegal, we better start building LOTS of prisons. What a laugh that one was.

are you saying Carbonell doesn't have a multi-year contract with the Conch Republic folks and that trying to induce them into breaking that contract doesn't have consequences? If so, have at it.

fund razor
11-15-2008, 08:21 AM
The tortious interference thing? If competing in an open marketplace and attempting to take a deal away from another supplier is illegal, we better start building LOTS of prisons. What a laugh that one was.

Last night, on TV... Quiznos committed Gross Tortious Interference between me and Subway. See.... I had this 5 dollar thing going with Subway. It was good. But not ideal.

In a calculated, overt, and expensive attempt to interefere in a tortious manner, they matched the 5 dollar thing that I had going, and upped the quality of the product. And even toasted it.

I am tempted to go get a Quiznos sub, but I fear getting wrapped up in any litigation that is sure to result in this hostile takeover of my belly.

Meanwhile... people get bought out of contracts and deals are settled everyday. If KW wanted out of their deal with any individual....especially if they could argue poor performance.. (there could be a cost involved).... but private citizens don't win against local government. Especially when they are not maxmizing the opportunity that they have been granted temporary stewardship of.

Offshoredrillin
11-15-2008, 08:27 AM
are you saying Carbonell doesn't have a multi-year contract with the Conch Republic folks and that trying to induce them into breaking that contract doesn't have consequences? If so, have at it.
he may have a multi year contract, but that doesnt stop potential wooers from courting KW officials, all that is going to do is make them think about renewing it. The only person Carbonell could sue would be KW IF they decided to end his contract early. I go to dealerships every day and ask them to use me instead of my competitors, that's not tortious interference, that's just business.

But, that being said if all of the racers decided not to show up or race in protest of carbonells rules, that might give the city of KW a chance to get out of the contract, depending on the wording of said contract.

Having been sued for it, tortious interference as it is stated in suits, would be if another racing organization conspired to have everyone over throw carbonell, but without a business plan of some sorts if would be impossible to prove, racers boycotting a dictators rule, imo would not fall under that.

lucky devil
11-15-2008, 08:36 AM
You could put an end to this sophistry very quickly. The group that controls the event is Conch Republic Offshore Powerboat Racing Association. They are the local group that negotiates with the city and county and sub-contracted with Carbonell.They were revived by and led by Bill Spottswood. email him: bill (at) spottswood.com Tell him your thoughts, see if he replies, share the answers with us.

Chris
11-15-2008, 09:00 AM
are you saying Carbonell doesn't have a multi-year contract with the Conch Republic folks and that trying to induce them into breaking that contract doesn't have consequences? If so, have at it.

I'm saying that right this minute I can start overtly planning to compete for that contract and approach KW on the topic and no one can do anything about it. Tortious interference is one of thos cool terms that amateur lawyers like to toss out at coctail parties to impress their friends. Judges, on the other hand, aren't particularly fond of it. Go check Westlaw for some interesting reading.

BUIZILLA
11-15-2008, 09:14 AM
where can we find case history on this fancy new *buzzword* ?

MarylandMark
11-15-2008, 09:24 AM
Tortious interference of business.- When false claims and accusations are made against a business or an individual's reputation in order to drive business away.

It ain't false if it's true.

The dog in this fight for me is to see more boats and races in KW regardless of who is at the helm

Mrhorsepower1
11-15-2008, 09:35 AM
Gino,
I know exactly what your talking about! We raced in "B" class with the original Powerboat Magazine 38 Scarab back in early 2000 and late 90's. We called JC in regards to the Ft.Myers Offshore race and wanted to know ahead of time how many boats were pre-registered in our class. This was the 1 st time we would be racing SBI ( and the last). John told us the pits are full and I have 8 boats in "B" class come on down. We arrive at the pits after a lond tow from Ohio and we are the 3rd total boat to show up!! To make a long story short we kept the boat on the trailer due to John's erogance and lies!! :mad:

lucky devil
11-15-2008, 10:03 AM
I'm saying that right this minute I can start overtly planning to compete for that contract and approach KW on the topic and no one can do anything about it.

That's an incredibly facile response. You haven't a clue. There's no contract to compete for. Key West city govt doesn't issue an RFP. Don't take my word for it, read their own records. See Resolution 08-223. They don't award a contract, the Resolution is Authorizing CROPRA.

Are you going to replace CROPRA? That would really be a Fantasy Fest.

Or are you going to suggest to CROPRA that your organization (?) is ready,willing and able to replace SBI/APBA? Have you even read what CROPRA wrote in it's own press release of Dec '03 when it was revived?

SHARKEY-IMAGES
11-15-2008, 10:18 AM
are you saying Carbonell doesn't have a multi-year contract with the Conch Republic folks and that trying to induce them into breaking that contract doesn't have consequences? If so, have at it.
I lost count of how many times that I heard the Conch Republic was promised that x number of boats would be in attendance in order for the Conch to cut JC a check. It is my understanding that in many cases he never actually got the actually number boats he promised and was even asking for Poker Run boats to be in the parade or do a parade lap before the start of the race... Just so he could get his check.

One other personal experience I had:

Myself, my wife and 18 month old daughter were on a cruise. 1st stop was Key West. We came into Key West when only 3 boats just got into the pits and I saw through the fence there was some guys I knew from NJ.
Well we could not go over to say hi to them for a few minutes without laying out $30.00 for a gate fee. $10.00 for each of us. Yes, my 18 month old daughter too was going to cost me $10 per the attendant!

I asked what were we getting for $30? The attendant said we get to look at the boats up close. I was like, "Ah?? What boats?" It was not like we could stay for the day because we needed to be back on the cruise ship at a certain time. I ended up saying hi through the fence being as they were close enough to it...

I don't blame the attendant nor any of the volunteers. I know that they are just doing what they are dictated to do.

BUIZILLA
11-15-2008, 10:22 AM
so for bantering sake, if someone was to come in with a ZERO dollar cost to the City proposal, how would that affect this contract? which by the way expires approx 45 days before next years event? MBZ ( or ANYBODY for example) says hey, we can do this for FREE cost to the City, just honor the previous exemptions and we're good to go... the City would be stupid not to jump on it...

BBB725
11-15-2008, 10:26 AM
Looks like the race gets approval for that weekend(week) only, so anyone, with approval, could race a different weekend.


*(h) Authorizing Conch Republic Offshore Powerboat Racing Association to conduct the Key West World Championship Races on November 2 – 9, 2008; A block party on Friday, November 7, 2008; A boat parade on Sunday, November 2, 2008; An awards ceremony at the Truman Waterfront on Thursday, November 6, 2008; Parade will be starting at Truman Annex Southard Street gate to Whitehead Street – Right going South to United Street – Left to Duval Street – Left go North to Front Street – to Whitehead Street – Left go South to Southard Street and right back to Truman Annex at 4:00 P.M. on Sunday, November 2, 2008; A street party on Friday, November 7,2008 from 7:00 P.M. to 11:00 P.M., pursuant to terms and conditions set forth by the City Manager; Authorizing the closure of Duval Street between Eaton and Front Streets including Greene from Ann to Fitzpatrick Streets and Duval Street; Granting a Special Event Permit pursuant to Section 6-86 of the Code of Ordinances; Authorizing the sale and consumption of alcoholic beverages within the enclosed area. (City Manager)

Bobcat
11-15-2008, 10:32 AM
it has been done ,it used to be this. first and foremost the city of key west wants to make money, they are open to ideas.

Tony
11-15-2008, 10:38 AM
getting interesting..

Chris
11-15-2008, 10:54 AM
I'm just curious how the City of Key West justifies the circumvention of Florida's state procurement laws in awarding a no-bid contract for services.

http://www.flsenate.gov/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=Ch0287/ch0287.htm

lucky devil
11-15-2008, 12:06 PM
I'm just curious how the City of Key West justifies the circumvention of Florida's state procurement laws in awarding a no-bid contract for services.

Where is the contract?

Answer: between CROPRA and Carbonell

SHARKEY-IMAGES
11-15-2008, 12:07 PM
I'm just curious how the City of Key West justifies the circumvention of Florida's state procurement laws in awarding a no-bid contract for services.

http://www.flsenate.gov/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=Ch0287/ch0287.htm

:eek: :eek: .....

SHARKEY-IMAGES
11-15-2008, 12:12 PM
Where is the contract?

Probably with the same copy of the contract for photographers they promised to get to me. It's been over 1 year and it still has not be produced...

No worries though. There are other ways to get the product I made to the racers and still fall into what I assume his guidelines are ... ;)

BUIZILLA
11-15-2008, 12:27 PM
Where is the contract?

Answer: between CROPRA and Carbonell then that makes it an open door for any other competitive offers to the City/County right? there is NOTHING in either agreement concerning sole rights to boating or boat racing events within the City of Key West or the territory boundary of Monroe County...... if another promoter petitions the City or County for another venue, neither entity can ignore or deny a hearing request, or proposal presentation... this is no different than promoting a car race, pig race, car show, or a boat show, where the City/County has to, and is required by law, to entertain it's options.. in good faith, the City/County would have to have a 30 day window of no-overlap, but I don't think it's as far fetched out of reach, or an iron clad lockout, as one would think...in fact, it may very well be a very EASY entryway at this juncture in time...

just stating the facts

glassdave
11-15-2008, 12:37 PM
also keep in mind i believe Carbonell holds the contract with UIM to hold the worlds, that is the recognized World Championships. Someone correct me if i'm wrong.

lucky devil
11-15-2008, 12:43 PM
then that makes it an open door for any other competitive offers to the City/County right?

That depends on the people who are a part of CROPRA. If you believe the city govt is going to agree to something proposed by out-of-towners that is at odds with the interests of these folks, well....

MOBILEMERCMAN
11-15-2008, 12:44 PM
I can't recall who said, but I heard APBA owns that and SBI has use of it thru the merge.

PARADOX
11-15-2008, 01:02 PM
I write contract all the time and involved with municipalities as well.
It's to complicated thats for sure.

However..

I think we should just by KW,, buy Counch Republic.. and do what the phuck we want. I'm sure Gino with his Cassino.. and Benz buddies can put in a few bucks. :leaving:

BUIZILLA
11-15-2008, 01:05 PM
That depends on the people who are a part of CROPRA. If you believe the city govt is going to agree to something proposed by out-of-towners that is at odds with the interests of these folks, well.... your blowing smoke dude, heavy smoke, your deal isn't as iron clad as you think.... the City and County has LEGAL protocol, and State guidelines they have to follow, no matter who you are, and if you think for a nanno second that a legitimate lobbyist/promoter/marketing firm can't approach them, and may very well get a positive approval for another boating *event*, especially at a NO COST option to the City, saving them $70,000 up front... your in the dark ages man.... dark dark ages... if someone in the know had the time and balls to do it, it absolutely CAN be done... I did several years of car race promoting renting a world class NASCAR sanctioned track, and dealing with City's and County's ad nauseum and i've also lived over 50 years down here and dealt with all surrounding county's purchasing/proposal contracts for 27 of those years, including Monroe Cty... so I know a tad about the in's and out's of this... don't threaten us with intimidation, you just may get more competition than you bargained for here..

besides, WE are your customer's, without US you have nothing for the City to pay you for, nada, zap, zero... you better damn well remember that... :26:

Chris
11-15-2008, 01:53 PM
Sometimes I think the "Conch Republic" believes some of that nonsense. They're still a city incorporated as a municipality in the State of Florida. I don't give a damn if they're an island, how far away they are from Tallahassee or if they suffer from some delusion that thye'y're exempt from Florida statutory law, they could quickly find out just how wrong they are.

P.S. People don't come there because of any silly "World Championship" name. The majority go home having no idea who won. Most don't care.


That depends on the people who are a part of CROPRA. If you believe the city govt is going to agree to something proposed by out-of-towners that is at odds with the interests of these folks, well....

Do you honestly believe that CROPRA is entitled by birthright to some special treatment? Again, since you have an apparent fondness for legal terminology, can you cite the Florida statute or point in common law that provides CROPRA with the ability to receive contracts and preferential treatment from the City of Key West? Or that allows them to exclude an equally-qualified organization from putting on a competitive event?

Bottom line- there are laws. These laws are legislated at a state level and in accordance with Florida's constitution. If Key West chooses to operate contrary to these laws, the judicial system provides remedies.

MarylandMark
11-15-2008, 02:14 PM
P.S. People don't come there because of any silly "World Championship" name. The majority go home having no idea who won. Most don't care.

I was there all 3 days of the boats running and couldn't answer who won or what class they were in. I went for the party and to see fast boats. Too much work to understand who is racing who so easier to say "holy chit dude- did you see that boat go by" and take another sip!

No disrespect and congrats to the champs as well as all the racers!

MOBILEMERCMAN
11-15-2008, 02:36 PM
When I first went in '85 there were few people there other than racers. Now it has become the boaters vacation destination. It may be for better or worse I don't know. I do know for me if it weren't for races I would never go there again.

lucky devil
11-15-2008, 02:40 PM
your blowing smoke dude, heavy smoke, your deal isn't as iron clad as you think.... the City and County has LEGAL protocol, and State guidelines they have to follow, no matter who you are, and if you think for a nanno second that a legitimate lobbyist/promoter/marketing firm can't approach them, and may very well get a positive approval for another boating *event*, especially at a NO COST option to the City, saving them $70,000 up front... your in the dark ages man.... dark dark ages... if someone in the know had the time and balls to do it, it absolutely CAN be done... I did several years of car race promoting renting a world class NASCAR sanctioned track, and dealing with City's and County's ad nauseum and i've also lived over 50 years down here and dealt with all surrounding county's purchasing/proposal contracts for 27 of those years, including Monroe Cty... so I know a tad about the in's and out's of this... don't threaten us with intimidation, you just may get more competition than you bargained for here..

besides, WE are your customer's, without US you have nothing for the City to pay you for, nada, zap, zero... you better damn well remember that... :26:

WTF? You write this under the misguided impression I have some connection to any of the principals involved, which is a world class presumption on your part. I couldn't give a damn about CROPRA, Carbonell, SBI or anyone involved, in any way.

lucky devil
11-15-2008, 02:45 PM
Do you honestly believe that CROPRA is entitled by birthright to some special treatment? Again, since you have an apparent fondness for legal terminology, can you cite the Florida statute or point in common law that provides CROPRA with the ability to receive contracts and preferential treatment from the City of Key West? Or that allows them to exclude an equally-qualified organization from putting on a competitive event?

What I believe is people are entitled to their own opinions, not their own facts.

I eagerly await the announcement that your org will produce a world class racing event in Key West.

Chris
11-15-2008, 02:55 PM
I also believe an individual should be entitled to their own opinions. At the same time, I believe you've been presented with a series of factual legal issues that you not only failed to address, you've side-stepped completely.

I have no intention of promoting a race in Key West.

fund razor
11-15-2008, 02:58 PM
I have no intention of promoting a race in Key West.

Me neither.
I do think that I am switching to that other sub place.

lucky devil
11-15-2008, 03:14 PM
I believe you've been presented with a series of factual legal issues that you not only failed to address, you've side-stepped completely.

I haven't been presented with anything. Look, if you believe what you say, you should contact Gerry Hammond, Senior Assistant Attorney General for the State of Florida: Gerry.Hammond (at) myfloridalegal.com

I'm sure he can be helpful.

MarylandMark
11-15-2008, 03:25 PM
I have no intention of promoting a race in Key West.

pretty please....

glassdave
11-15-2008, 03:29 PM
pretty please....

he has been seen consorting with Reggie . . . soooo . . . ya never know :D

bootdaddy
11-15-2008, 03:58 PM
This is getting interesting. I know some people...some florida people...and I know all about these little city/muni fiefdoms...you just gotta get a really big flashlight and pay the right people more than they are currently taking (under or over the table)!

I wonder if the city would be interested in receiving $70k for the rights rather than spending it. Right now, I'm in for half - maybe Gino kicks in the other half...

Should be an interesting city council meeting...

glassdave
11-15-2008, 04:09 PM
would you add a vintage class just for fun :D

bootdaddy
11-15-2008, 04:14 PM
would you add a vintage class just for fun :D

seems like the logical thing to do:)

BRAD SCHOENWALD
11-15-2008, 04:39 PM
This is getting interesting. I know some people...some florida people...and I know all about these little city/muni fiefdoms...you just gotta get a really big flashlight and pay the right people more than they are currently taking (under or over the table)!

I wonder if the city would be interested in receiving $70k for the rights rather than spending it. Right now, I'm in for half - maybe Gino kicks in the other half...

Should be an interesting city council meeting...

Dont forget about the boat ride the week of Thanksgiving. I can give you all the background and inside info of what was done and is being done. If you are SERIOUS of course. :sifone:

Ratickle
11-15-2008, 05:06 PM
This is getting interesting. I know some people...some florida people...and I know all about these little city/muni fiefdoms...you just gotta get a really big flashlight and pay the right people more than they are currently taking (under or over the table)!

I wonder if the city would be interested in receiving $70k for the rights rather than spending it. Right now, I'm in for half - maybe Gino kicks in the other half...

Should be an interesting city council meeting...


would you add a vintage class just for fun :D


seems like the logical thing to do:)

Gonna keep my fingers crossed and will do all I can to help on this one.:drool5:

Ted
11-15-2008, 06:00 PM
Thanks for all the kind words about my post, but let's look at this from the path of least resistance. I frankly have NO problem with JC owning (sort of) and running the KW race, and If the Conch Repulic guys want to keep dealing with him (even though he doesn't provide what is rumored to have been promised-boat count wise) then they should. But what needs to be done is at least, at first, make an honest effort to bring the other organizations and JC to the table and make some kind of arrangement to benefit ALL. I know both the other principles (Smitty and RonP) have worked or tried to work with JC in the past and for one reason or the other could not make it work. JC has always held fast to his fees and requirements and because he is less than amenable to negotiating, everyone has walked away without making it work. BUT, I find it extremely hard to believe that if JC, Smitty, RonP, and any other interested party (hint-sponsors) were to sit down in a room with the Conch Republic guys, that all parties could not come away with an agreement. Now, JC might be the hardest to get to the table, but maybe not. and I cannot believe there would not be a benefit to EVERY person at the table. There is strength in numbers and too much money involved to not be able to make it work. If it can't happen that way and someone digs in their heels and says NO, then it will be quite obvious who has no desire to further the sport, and then the fans, promoters, and especially the racers can make their future decisions based on that information. We are not the NASCAR nation or any of that crap, but the sport encompasses thousands of people and millions of dollars, the nexus of that could and should be Key West every November. Period. SERIOUSLY :D

MANITIE
11-15-2008, 06:22 PM
So why was there a need for another class ?

If they can't run with the big dogs then let them go to P1 Class.

They should have all ran together.

If Hard Rock would have won overall then so be it. But catering and making classes up at the last minute is rediculous.

It's not like they did not know CK was going to be there! The rules are unlimited. They should make their boats competitive if that is where they want to race..


Sharkey.....I know you don't like JC....but you do not have the info why this happend...there is a lot more to it...and I think your pointing the fingure at the wrong person...I also asked when I got there why there are 2 unlimited class's becasue I want to run against Reggie next year in some races.....

I think you should leave it to the racers and the Organizations.....
Bottom line is any boat could have registersed to run Unlimited against Cat Killer.....

Ratickle
11-15-2008, 06:28 PM
Bottom line is any boat could have registersed to run Unlimited against Cat Killer.....

And won..:)

Seriously, maybe if we start now we can get the orgs together on at least a few classes where the rules would match up for the Worlds, if not before to run through the year.

MarylandMark
11-15-2008, 07:49 PM
Boat racing is a business and has nothing to do with actual boats racing

Rather make $X or have X number of boats show up? Obviously the answer is not the latter IMHO

catmando
11-15-2008, 08:07 PM
I wonder if Haggin has approached Geico about buying him out. That's the only way Carbonell will give it up IMO.

The Geico Key West World Championships how sweet would that be.

Shanghied Again
11-15-2008, 10:00 PM
JC thinks that His Race and His Race alone brings the money to Key West race week? Not true. lets see who comes? maybe a couple of 100 spectators. Now the rest Poker Runners. Poker Run Clubs, Serious Offshore Guys and florida Powerboat club with over 120 boats in a Poker Run that spend money, Big money. drinking, eating and having a good time while filling the streets of Key West. They love boats and the races and this is where JC is blind and he always will be. Haggin on the other hand is a great guy and if he ever had the chance to take over I would bet Racing would finally come back together.

SHARKEY-IMAGES
11-15-2008, 10:31 PM
Sharkey.....I know you don't like JC....but you do not have the info why this happend...there is a lot more to it...and I think your pointing the fingure at the wrong person...I also asked when I got there why there are 2 unlimited class's becasue I want to run against Reggie next year in some races.....
If JC treated you like he has myself and many others apparently, you would probably have less love for him too!

It's no secret that JC is the dictator of SBI. Nothing gets done without his approval. If a new Class was put in place, it did not get done without him signing off on it. He has the final say therefore his is the one liable for the additional class.




I think you should leave it to the racers and the Organizations.....
Leave what ? :confused:

I am not asking for anything more than an explanation of how an additional UNLIMITED CLASS with the same boats came about ?

I believe as a Photographer of Offshore and a FAN, I have the right and should know the classes that are running.




Bottom line is any boat could have registersed to run Unlimited against Cat Killer.....

Obviously and LUCAS OIL / OUTERLIMITS did and won the World Championship.

But how and when did the racers find out about this extra class ?
Was there a breakdown of rules and differences of the 2 UNLIMITED Classes posted somewhere ? Were they even available before anyone left for Key West or did this pop up at the start of the week?

You may say it is none of my business, but if the other orgs are going to try to match up with the same classes, then being as I shoot the other orgs, it does become my business to know...

catmando
11-15-2008, 10:31 PM
Hey Frank is Cobra boats still in operation? You know, Peter Casini?

SHARKEY-IMAGES
11-15-2008, 10:36 PM
I wonder if Haggin has approached Geico about buying him out. That's the only way Carbonell will give it up IMO.

The Geico Key West World Championships how sweet would that be.

Cat,

I know first hand as things were in their planning stages to try to get JC to make a deal.

If it did not happen by now, then it probably never will.

Give it time. JC will not have KW forever.... http://www.seriousoffshore.com/forums/images/smilies/seeya.gif

glassdave
11-15-2008, 10:46 PM
Give it time. JC will not have KW forever.... http://www.seriousoffshore.com/forums/images/smilies/seeya.gif

yep

BUIZILLA
11-15-2008, 10:47 PM
I couldn't give a damn about CROPRA, Carbonell, SBI or anyone involved, in any way. well, that solves that problem.. :sifone:

BUIZILLA
11-15-2008, 10:53 PM
I wonder if the city would be interested in receiving $70k for the rights rather than spending it. Right now, I'm in for half - maybe Gino kicks in the other half...... if you can raise the bar to a +70k number to the city, that's a 140k reversal.... no small potato's...
schedule a City meeting, invite the local media, tourism bureau, County officials, and wallflowers... hmmm

SHARKEY-IMAGES
11-15-2008, 11:00 PM
if you can raise the bar to a +70k number to the city, that's a 140k reversal.... no small potato's...
schedule a City meeting, invite the local media, tourism bureau, County officials, and wallflowers... hmmm

And racers or poker runners wouldn't even have to pay to be in the parade right ? :D

Lubejobs42
11-15-2008, 11:01 PM
Guys, you are getting all excited. JC has been this way for years. It is nothing new. It is his home town. Things are not likely to change. Every year its the same thing before Key West some people refuse to go or pay the yearly reg fees to race one race. Others scream quit your crying. Gino not for nothing the pits are tight and he didn't treat you any different then any body else. If he had let you in there would have been 20 more behind you. I am not trying to say everything he does is right and I have had problems with him too. He is what he has always been.

You can support him or not. History keeps repeating only the faces change.

Completely understand, that's all he had to say. I would have completley understand. The way he talked to us was aproblem. I an pretty calm by nature, it takes alot to get me to the boiling point which I was about there. I know serveral others that if it was them spoken to like that, out loud, in front of the people there, the would have had JC lying on his back.
It was his people that let us in the pit and it was his people that told us they were short one boat for the parade.

Ratickle
11-15-2008, 11:19 PM
Gino, read post 109 when you get a chance.

Lubejobs42
11-15-2008, 11:27 PM
This is getting interesting. I know some people...some florida people...and I know all about these little city/muni fiefdoms...you just gotta get a really big flashlight and pay the right people more than they are currently taking (under or over the table)!

I wonder if the city would be interested in receiving $70k for the rights rather than spending it. Right now, I'm in for half - maybe Gino kicks in the other half...

Should be an interesting city council meeting...


$35K!!? I am pissed the way he spoke to me but's not like he slept with my mother or something! I'm proably $5k or $10K mad but not $35K mad!!:)

Ratickle
11-15-2008, 11:30 PM
$35K!!? I am pissed the way he spoke to me but's not like he slept with my mother or something! I'm proably $5k or $10K mad but not $35K mad!!:)

Okay, so only $25K to $30K to go. :drool5: Let's see...........

SHARKEY-IMAGES
11-16-2008, 12:44 AM
No, this was not done with creative editing with Photoshop.

This is exactly how the sign read:

http://sharkeyimages.zenfolio.com/img/v0/p148456327-4.jpg

catmando
11-16-2008, 01:06 AM
Dam...if I'd known the Boardwalk had a vacancy... :( I better get my reserve in now. I bet it will be Geico WCs next November. :sifone:

Bobcat
11-16-2008, 01:21 AM
the 70,000 bucks is from the tourist development council, not from the city/county

Ratickle
11-16-2008, 12:12 PM
the 70,000 bucks is from the tourist development council, not from the city/county

Do you know how the entire project goes?

MOBILEMERCMAN
11-16-2008, 12:30 PM
Sharkey Where was the Boardwalk pic taken?

Bobcat
11-16-2008, 12:33 PM
Do you know how the entire project goes?

no but if you hum a few linesI...........................................................

Chris
11-16-2008, 12:33 PM
Says right here- "Cost to County"

http://www.seriousoffshore.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=5700&d=1226757738

TDC is a county agency funded under Florida statute by a special tax levied on tourism (hotel rooms, etc)

SHARKEY-IMAGES
11-16-2008, 12:34 PM
At the SBI NATIONAL/DIVISIONAL EVENT last season in Panama City, Fl

MOBILEMERCMAN
11-16-2008, 12:41 PM
SBI only has two well attended sites. Sarasota and Key West. They didn't create either one just locked them up.

Buoy
11-16-2008, 12:44 PM
no but if you hum a few linesI...........................................................

:rofl:

SHARKEY-IMAGES
11-16-2008, 12:46 PM
SBI only has two well attended sites. Sarasota and Key West. They didn't create either one just locked them up.
Back in the day Jim I was racing with National Powerboat Association NPBA in Key West. 1987-1988
It was great back then...

MOBILEMERCMAN
11-16-2008, 12:51 PM
I remember well.

MOBILEMERCMAN
11-16-2008, 01:04 PM
This was one class Open similar to supercat, but included V's

5813

5814

Back then you had to attend 3 races that season and place to attend.

It is very different now.

MOBILEMERCMAN
11-16-2008, 01:14 PM
5815

5816

A couple more open Starts from the week in '87.

There were 5 National classes: Superboat, Open, Modified, Production, and Stock.

Plus 4 Sportsman divisional classes.

Fever Mike
11-16-2008, 01:15 PM
I don;t care for Carbonell now the way he treats people in general. I don;t go to the races anymore nor have I been involved as a racer or tech person or race offical for a long time.
It is his loss not mine. I chose to spend my time and money with another hobby.

MOBILEMERCMAN
11-16-2008, 01:23 PM
Superboat class has evolved to 3 separate classes, Open has evolved to 4 or 5 classes. Only stock has remained somewhat unchanged. 4 Divisional classes have evolved to Class 1 thru 6.

SHARKEY-IMAGES
11-16-2008, 04:24 PM
This was one class Open similar to supercat, but included V's


5814

Back then you had to attend 3 races that season and place to attend.

It is very different now.

Thank you! Thank you! Thank you Jim !

Now for those that were not in the sport back then can see how little racing there is today....

Just look at Saturday's distances:

149 miles

129 miles

105 miles

The big class this year ran how far ? :ack2:

catmando
11-16-2008, 04:30 PM
At the SBI NATIONAL/DIVISIONAL EVENT last season in Panama City, FlOk now I look foolish. I thought it was KW. :leaving:

Ron P
11-16-2008, 06:17 PM
Ok now I look foolish. I thought it was KW. :leaving:

It didn't take that to make you look foolish:seeya:

Welcome back Catmando.:blush5:

Ron P
11-16-2008, 06:31 PM
OSS filed for TDC funding for a race in July of 2009 but the TDC decided to only fund one boat race.

I also met with the Conch Republic folks and attempted to get OSS to be invited to KW in November. They loved my proposal, JC shot it down.

PARADOX
11-16-2008, 07:33 PM
I think a lot of posts here missing Ginos point.
Todays race circuit is a joke.. I know several racers who won't race anymore for many reasons.. JC and the KW thing is not the issue. SHould be a change?? yes.. should JC be out of the picture? yes. He talks to many people like he is the "only thing in racing".. Kinda like Redgie.. both errogants and thinks they are the only thing in boating. "v" bottems,, racing. or whatever.

But Ginos point is that he tried to do something, and he got treated like chit.. Not professionally.. not in a manner that a media.. and public event organizers ahould treat any other boater. I bet a years salary, that if Gino would have received an understanding, professional and kind decline to his request we wouldn't be reading this thread. It's all about principles, and the sad thing is that many lacking in this. Carbonell's lacking tactfullness is just an example. (I'm not to crazy about a lot of the KW personnel and the $ hungry attitudes anyways)
If.. JC and his staff would tell Gino,, in a "nice", casual way that there are insurance issues.. or protocols or whatever and "This" can't be done right now.. Gino would have just turned away said OK... I understand and drove away with a smile and would think to himself.. ok we tried.. let's try something else.. There is a way to talk to people and JC has no clue.
I think that's Ginos point.. (as well as mine.. since I taked to JC about something else last year..) that he has no personality skills. He doesn't belong to a public event when he creates problems for the future of offshore racing.
There is a way to treat people, even if the answer is a "NO". My .02

Ratickle
11-16-2008, 07:36 PM
I think a lot of posts here missing Ginos point.
Todays race circuit is a joke.. I know several racers who won't race anymore for many reasons.. JC and the KW thing is not the issue. SHould be a change?? yes.. should JC be out of the picture? yes. He talks to many people like he is the "only thing in racing".. Kinda like Redgie.. both errogants and thinks they are the only thing in boating. "v" bottems,, racing. or whatever.

But Ginos point is that he tried to do something, and he got treated like chit.. Not professionally.. not in a manner that a media.. and public event organizers ahould treat any other boater. I bet a years salary, that if Gino would have received an understanding, professional and kind decline to his request we wouldn't be reading this thread. It's all about principles, and the sad thing is that many lacking in this. Carbonell's lacking tactfullness is just an example. (I'm not to crazy about a lot of the KW personnel and the $ hungry attitudes anyways)
If.. JC and his staff would tell Gino,, in a "nice", casual way that there are insurance issues.. or protocols or whatever and "This" can't be done right now.. Gino would have just turned away said OK... I understand and drove away with a smile and would think to himself.. ok we tried.. let's try something else.. There is a way to talk to people and JC has no clue.
I think that's Ginos point.. (as well as mine.. since I taked to JC about something else last year..) that he has no personality skills. He doesn't belong to a public event when he creates problems for the future of offshore racing.
There is a way to treat people, even if the answer is a "NO". My .02

A pretty good ".02"

MOBILEMERCMAN
11-16-2008, 09:12 PM
I agree Gino should have been treated differently. Other clubs would have welcomed him.

The real shame is some people only see his show. There are other great places to race.

catmando
11-16-2008, 09:54 PM
It didn't take that to make you look foolish:seeya...I love you too Polli. :rolleyes:

Phantom1
11-16-2008, 10:28 PM
When bringing the boat to Aquamanias pit we were stopped by an SBI pit attendant and he said "John Carbonell said to get that boat out of here now"! We told him we were going to go over and talk to John right now. The attendant was very persistent that we stopped in our tracks to go and talk with him, which we did. Of coarse I had every intention of paying SBI what ever they needed.


OK, I'll play devil's advocate here.

Did anyone even think to ask for permission prior to entering instead of asking for forgiveness after being caught in the wrong place without credentials?

I'm not defending JC or beating on Gino, just looking at it from an employer and parent point of view. If my staff or kids try to pull something off and then expect me to go along when they get caught, I will most likely say no, even if it might be ultimately to my benefit.

Food for thought......that's all.:)

cosmic12
11-21-2008, 03:54 PM
Anybody see that this same thread got POOFED over on SOS? With others to follow.

PARADOX
11-21-2008, 04:16 PM
Yup.. saw it..
http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/general-boating-discussion/199174-thread-delitions-wtf.html

Check out post No. 15.... :lurk5:

WHEELMAN
11-21-2008, 04:16 PM
5815

5816

A couple more open Starts from the week in '87.

There were 5 National classes: Superboat, Open, Modified, Production, and Stock.

Plus 4 Sportsman divisional classes.

That was real offshore racing! True offshore racing will make new and old boats competitive.

Lubejobs42
11-21-2008, 04:24 PM
OK, I'll play devil's advocate here.

Did anyone even think to ask for permission prior to entering instead of asking for forgiveness after being caught in the wrong place without credentials?

I'm not defending JC or beating on Gino, just looking at it from an employer and parent point of view. If my staff or kids try to pull something off and then expect me to go along when they get caught, I will most likely say no, even if it might be ultimately to my benefit.

Food for thought......that's all.:)

As I said before, It was one of Carbonells people that told us they were short a boat for the Parade as Fury was out. No one else wanted to come up with the $$ to put their boat in the parade as it has always been no charge. It was Carbonel guys that let us in the gate and guided us to where we pulled over. We thought we were helping SBI out as well as getting our situation handled.

Lubejobs42
11-21-2008, 04:40 PM
OSS filed for TDC funding for a race in July of 2009 but the TDC decided to only fund one boat race.

I also met with the Conch Republic folks and attempted to get OSS to be invited to KW in November. They loved my proposal, JC shot it down.

Ron, Since you met with these people, do you think there is a chance these people could be persueded to allow another organisation race either in place of SBI or another weekend? I was thinking, if enough people contacted them, maybe a petition with a few thousand along with raising a bunch of money for them, maybe they will listen. Maybe we can let them know why attendence is so much lower then previous years. I know for a fact Stu Jones really dosen't care for JC as JC has treated Stu like crap. Maybe Stu would consider supporting the other organisation and have his run on that weekend instead of SBI's. I remember 2004, the pits were full, race boats everywhere. It reminded me of when i was a kid. I honestly feel the only reason we don't have that know is one reason John Carbonel.
Years ago, you could not get a room a week prior to race week. This year everyone had vacancys. Probably the economy being the main factor but only 55 race boats vs 120 of years past is also a good part of it.
I would honstly be willing to put a good effort (financially and with time) to seeing if we could pull this off. Why should JC own Key West and ruin it for so many others.

lucky devil
11-21-2008, 05:07 PM
Ron, Since you met with these people, do you think there is a chance these people could be persueded to allow another organisation race either in place of SBI or another weekend? I was thinking, if enough people contacted them, maybe a petition with a few thousand along with raising a bunch of money for them, maybe they will listen. Maybe we can let them know why attendence is so much lower then previous years. I know for a fact Stu Jones really dosen't care for JC as JC has treated Stu like crap. Maybe Stu would consider supporting the other organisation and have his run on that weekend instead of SBI's. I remember 2004, the pits were full, race boats everywhere. It reminded me of when i was a kid. I honestly feel the only reason we don't have that know is one reason John Carbonel.
Years ago, you could not get a room a week prior to race week. This year everyone had vacancys. Probably the economy being the main factor but only 55 race boats vs 120 of years past is also a good part of it.
I would honstly be willing to put a good effort (financially and with time) to seeing if we could pull this off. Why should JC own Key West and ruin it for so many others.



My original post on this thread was about being careful what steps you take to see the status quo in Key West change. I'm attaching a couple of files about another racing series where people got sideways, and one party paid dearly for it.

PARADOX
11-21-2008, 05:43 PM
I'm just waiting for my "Thread deletion WTF" thread to be deleted. by JokeCo

:26:

kirby
11-21-2008, 06:11 PM
OSO is now owned by OPRAH LOL

MarylandMark
11-21-2008, 06:25 PM
Lucky Devil- you seem to know a lot about this.

Would you be willing to help pull it off or not so much?

cosmic12
11-21-2008, 07:06 PM
I'm just waiting for my "Thread deletion WTF" thread to be deleted. by JokeCo

:26:

Looks like Nancy found it.:rofl:

kirby
11-21-2008, 07:06 PM
I am not heather " speedgirl " or " packin steve " so lighten up .

Chris
11-21-2008, 07:17 PM
This sport was born of guys who loved boats talking $hit about who could go faster or get somewhere quicker. They didn't start building long, skinny boats because they thought people would like to buy them. They built them so they could race. We owe everything to those people. I personally love offshore powerboat racing. I especially loved the no-holds-barred open ocean racing. I'm not in love with every thing about present-day offshore racing nor am I enamored with all the charachters involved in the sport. But that doesn't mean I would ever want to give up on it.

MOBILEMERCMAN
11-21-2008, 07:34 PM
I just love to race.

Ron P
11-21-2008, 09:50 PM
Ron, Since you met with these people, do you think there is a chance these people could be persueded to allow another organisation race either in place of SBI or another weekend? I was thinking, if enough people contacted them, maybe a petition with a few thousand along with raising a bunch of money for them, maybe they will listen. Maybe we can let them know why attendence is so much lower then previous years. I know for a fact Stu Jones really dosen't care for JC as JC has treated Stu like crap. Maybe Stu would consider supporting the other organisation and have his run on that weekend instead of SBI's.


Hey Gino,

There is already some Key West locals working on bringing OSS to KW in July of 09. Wanna help make it happen? Give me a call. or email.

Ron

stecz20
11-21-2008, 10:22 PM
:sifone: Don't get upset ...We love it that you put money into Racing sbi /opa / popra whatever .. Cuzz You dont get it back LOL ......Other than oss have you ever taken youre Petey Skooter to 1st place ? 2nd place , 3rd place? (mind you 3 boats have to compete for a real third .) LOL. Youre a Ray wannabe . Sep you cant get little girly bar flys . Ha . LOL

hey kirby, i like you.. im gonna introduce you to mashers sister... shes real nice......:03::03:

Toasty
11-22-2008, 01:47 AM
:sifone: Don't get upset ...We love it that you put money into Racing sbi /opa / popra whatever .. Cuzz You dont get it back LOL ......Other than oss have you ever taken youre Petey Skooter to 1st place ? 2nd place , 3rd place? (mind you 3 boats have to compete for a real third .) LOL. Youre a Ray wannabe . Sep you cant get little girly bar flys . Ha . LOL

again this is why offshore boat racing will never be what it should.......
instead of banding together you always are putting down your own kind. Last time i observed, Beck was paying his own race way and at many races. Hes doing what he loves, and has a wealth of knowledge. Lets think and understand whos reading "our" rants, it may effect future years of the sport...

Clean it up Gang!

Gino i think you have lots of guts to be doing what you are, if you need any help from the north east states please let me know! Id be happy to write letters or make phone calls in a respectuful and meaningful manner.

Regards,
Christian Del Collo
Business & Real Estate Management
856-904-1961

Lubejobs42
11-22-2008, 12:45 PM
Hey Gino,

There is already some Key West locals working on bringing OSS to KW in July of 09. Wanna help make it happen? Give me a call. or email.

Ron

Unfortunitlly, I don't think July is going to cut it. In October it's fall all over the contry and boating is over just about everywhere but here. People come down to the Key west run as the last run before winter and people winterize their boats. I don't believe there will be any kind of turn out in July. Maybe i'm wrong but i think the Worlds is what we should target.

MarylandMark
11-22-2008, 02:04 PM
As well as any run other than the Worlds would compete with FPC vs having them on your side..

Ratickle
11-23-2008, 12:32 AM
Unfortunitlly, I don't think July is going to cut it. In October it's fall all over the contry and boating is over just about everywhere but here. People come down to the Key west run as the last run before winter and people winterize their boats. I don't believe there will be any kind of turn out in July. Maybe i'm wrong but i think the Worlds is what we should target.

That's true, there are so many conflicting Poker Runs, Races, etc. it's hard to choose. The World's is the only thing going on in July. What about a true World's in Costa Rica? :) I heard there is a good casino there and the water is outstanding. Maybe the weekend of Thanksgiving?

Fever Mike
11-23-2008, 10:18 AM
You all are wasting your time and money with boat racing. This type of thing has been going on for years! I have been reading these same coments from different people on the internet since 1996! Anyone ever remember rec.boats.power.racing? Yes that is how far back I go with message boards.

I once had the gusto to try to do something good for this so called sport back in the late 90's up till 2001. I did some good, got zero appreciation and got tired of the crooks, A-Holes and big wallet know it all's that ran off every TV show and major sponsor plus fans. Stick with the Poker Runs, get togethers and lake shoot outs.

boatme
11-23-2008, 11:40 AM
Poker runs are great, and should stick around. I am still a big fan of fun runs and Poker Run events. Difference is, that Poker Runs to be run under a whole new format today ( I have already posted my feelings on this)

More rendezvous should take place, and Racing should continue to try to make the sport better

Just because of the problems in the sport today, should not mean we don’t keep trying
Yes it is an uphill battle but it is not insurmountable given the right people and the determination to keep working on it (more funds would help as well) The ideas are growing and there is movement to make change, and to make racing more of a sport for all to watch and more to participate in. We do not stop trying

Mike I know it is frustrating, and I have been soured on racing from the days my wife and I put on a couple of races, she was also an official for the APBA. Many years ago

Trust me I have looked into the eye of the eye of the devil! I am not ready to give up on the sport; as a matter of fact I am intending to get more involved in the next year or two. I now have a better idea of whom and what the deal is, and I am hoping to fight the devil for a while to see if more can be done.

I don’t know if I will have anything new to bring to the table, but I am going to try to help where I can. I love offshore boating of all types, and I am not content to watch it fade away because of guys like JC. He won’t be around forever, he will stop doing his thing at some point, and we need to be ready for that day. Not to mention to continue trying new things until one works better than what is done today.
I am one of those guys who if I complain enough I need to shut up or do something about it. This is how I got started putting on Smoke On The Water with my partner in the poker runs Bob L. and I think our ideas worked well in its time
I have *****ed enough about racing, so now I am going to try to use my *****ing more constructively and try to help I am not content to say it is all over

You have only herd the beginning of this from me.

Mike I hope I can have some small input into the sport enough that you will say to yourself” it is getting better”. I know there are some people in the background that are working hard to try and make racing better. I hope I can help them with there efforts. They are the true champions and have been trying for a long time and they have some great ideas. I hope I can help them try a few of these ideas out and see if they work

Marc

PARADOX
11-23-2008, 12:45 PM
Take a look at the "Red Bull Air races " venue.
Well organized race all over.. millions of spectators (with no planes) TV coverage. etc.
Growing leaps and bounds..

Offshore races can be and should be the same way with appropriate people and managements.

boatme
11-23-2008, 12:47 PM
Amen

kirby
11-24-2008, 10:56 PM
[;;;;

sal cimino
05-06-2009, 09:04 PM
there are some very hard working people in offshore powerboat racing..both in oss & sbi. just because someone is head of an organization doesn't mean that they have to be a total ass%^(*.... I tried to talk to john carbonell about sbi a few years ago and got blown out of the water... friends like him you dodn't need enemies!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

sal cimino
05-06-2009, 09:05 PM
Don't need enemies

LaughingCat
05-06-2009, 10:06 PM
I am naive to the infrastructure and ownership of SBI. Knowing there was an exodus years ago, why does SBI still have clout? Why are there racers that still put up with it when OSS is obviously viable and running a better show?

Coach
05-07-2009, 08:39 AM
:(

ThrottleUp Props
05-07-2009, 09:12 AM
Bury this back were it belongs.

Julie

Chris
05-07-2009, 09:24 AM
This is a 6-month old issue that was laid to rest some time back. If there's pertinent information, let's get a new thread started. Other than that, it serves no purpose.