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View Full Version : Black 28 F1-71- Engine/Bilge Redo



ar15meister
10-20-2009, 01:07 PM
Hey Guys,

I figured since I am going to be rebuilding my engine, my outdrive, redoing my bilge and doing a few other little things on my Pantera I would start a thread as many here have done.

For those of you that dont know I lost oil pressure 30 seconds into the last poker run of the season this year. Luckily I was running the boat with my father who caught the gauge as it 'plummeted' and I came off it right away. We checked the oil and there was milkshake so we brought her in and put her on the trailer. I won the 'hard luck' award at the poker run though!!!:leaving:

I havent really touched the boat with the exception of draining the oil and doing a few other small things. Theories have been laid out as to what happened but obviously we will not know what went on until we do the autopsy.

I am now in the process of deciding where to bring the engine and I have narrowed it down to 2 shops. 1 local shop that Airpacker recommended which has an impeccable reputation and also the original builder of the engine, Tony Bischoff at BES Racing Engines. Tony is a good guy and I have met him in person and actually had him perform the pre purchase leakdown/compression tests on the boat with me and my father in the bilge with him helping him do it. The engine he built for the boat ran so well for the 2 years I used it in the boat that it seems like a logical step to take it to the original builder but when Airpacker recommends something I try and listen because that guy has forgotten more about this chit than I will ever hope to know. The Canadian dollar being so strong right now is also another reason to take this engine to the USA where I could likely save some cash to divert into another area of the boat.

Decisions......

I am also going to go through the drive and make it fresh. There is an excellent shop close by that I intend to take the drive to.

Lastly, I plan on painting the engine to look cool and redoing the bilge to hopefully resemble something similar to Mike's white F1. My bilge is pretty dirty, being a raceboat and all, and I wouldnt mind it being at the very least 'cleaner'.

This whole excercise is going to begin very soon but mostly after deer season:sifone:

We are also talking about more power but thats a secret for now.

I know I will be asking you guys some questions and also needing some support through what will likely be a major project.

http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w202/ar15meister/DSC00341.jpg

Perlmudder
10-20-2009, 01:44 PM
Sounds like it will be a good project. If you need some help in the new year I will have graduated and be unemployed (hopefully not for long)!:)

MikeyFIN
10-20-2009, 02:11 PM
Usually Raceboats have spotless bilges.... so clean you can walk barefoot in them.
One question..why donīt you race it ??

Airpacker
10-20-2009, 02:32 PM
Because there is NO race circuit here Mikey. None, nada, nothing. Only one race site is even within a 5 hr trailer ride and thats st.clair. All others are miles and miles away.
Pretty hard to compete on a distant circuit when its a weekend warrior thing.




Adam, give wayne the motor and Steve the drive. Spend local, ya get local support :)
As for more power, I have a pretty nice 900hp set up in mind for ya :):)

Mikeb4
10-20-2009, 09:05 PM
Looking forward to the thread Adam! keep me living vicariously this winter!!

tsp
10-21-2009, 01:32 PM
Good luck on the rebuild

tomcei
10-21-2009, 09:39 PM
pics.....before and after please :)

Buoy
10-21-2009, 10:10 PM
Keep us posted!!!

Your boat is one of my favorites, can't wait to see what you do with her!

MikeyFIN
10-21-2009, 11:04 PM
Because there is NO race circuit here Mikey. None, nada, nothing. Only one race site is even within a 5 hr trailer ride and thats st.clair. All others are miles and miles away.
Pretty hard to compete on a distant circuit when its a weekend warrior thing.

Really...
Well I just fly over to race in Florida.
5 hours is nothing for me. I drive 10hrs a day at work.
Thenagain Iīm a workaholic...

Airpacker
10-22-2009, 08:15 AM
Really...
Well I just fly over to race in Florida.
5 hours is nothing for me. I drive 10hrs a day at work.
Thenagain Iīm a workaholic...

LOL, I spent the latter half of my 20's and early 30's crew chiefing an alcohol funny car. Leaving at 6pm on fridays, driving all night, sleeping in a truck,wrenching all weekend and driving all night sunday to be at work monday morning. After 6 yrs of doing that, I was glad to just say enough is enough.

I would race p class if there was anything close enough on a regular basis but the h ell I'm using my 2 days off a week to drive all over the country. I would rather spend that time boating with friends and family. :)

MikeyFIN
10-22-2009, 09:16 AM
Airpacker...I hear ya.. know the feeling all too well and when it sets in then itīs time to go out.
Thatīs why I changed to boatracing.. much less hassle than anything on wheels.


But Artmeister still just bring it back maybe once a year to a race ( St Clair ???) ?
Huh???

youīd make more than just me happy... Trust me on this one.

Airpacker
10-22-2009, 09:36 PM
Well, if Adam wants a throttle man for a weekend in st.clair, he knows where to find me. :)

ar15meister
10-23-2009, 10:25 AM
Well, if Adam wants a throttle man for a weekend in st.clair, he knows where to find me. :)

I like that idea.

I got a call yesterday from my buddy up north. Even though I wasnt going to go to Key West this year to save money (and appease my dad) since I just bought the house I was made an offer I couldnt refuse so apparently I am now going. Running a 38 Fountain from Lauderdale down to Key West then staying for the races and running back to Lauderdale in the boat on the Monday after. I figured it was a great opportunity that I couldnt really pass up since I now have a ride on a nice boat instead of having to watch from shore.

Im pretty excited.

Sean are you going? I know you said you were thinking about it but we never discussed it and I tried to forget about the idea since I wanted to go but was trying to be 'sensible'.

Airpacker
10-23-2009, 10:50 AM
Yes, wednesday at 4 to Monday at 9.

ar15meister
10-23-2009, 11:53 AM
Yes, wednesday at 4 to Monday at 9.

Awesome.

thedonz
10-23-2009, 04:06 PM
Hey Guys,

I figured since I am going to be rebuilding my engine, my outdrive, redoing my bilge and doing a few other little things on my Pantera I would start a thread as many here have done.

For those of you that dont know I lost oil pressure 30 seconds into the last poker run of the season this year. Luckily I was running the boat with my father who caught the gauge as it 'plummeted' and I came off it right away. We checked the oil and there was milkshake so we brought her in and put her on the trailer. I won the 'hard luck' award at the poker run though!!!:leaving:

I havent really touched the boat with the exception of draining the oil and doing a few other small things. Theories have been laid out as to what happened but obviously we will not know what went on until we do the autopsy.

I am now in the process of deciding where to bring the engine and I have narrowed it down to 2 shops. 1 local shop that Airpacker recommended which has an impeccable reputation and also the original builder of the engine, Tony Bischoff at BES Racing Engines. Tony is a good guy and I have met him in person and actually had him perform the pre purchase leakdown/compression tests on the boat with me and my father in the bilge with him helping him do it. The engine he built for the boat ran so well for the 2 years I used it in the boat that it seems like a logical step to take it to the original builder but when Airpacker recommends something I try and listen because that guy has forgotten more about this chit than I will ever hope to know. The Canadian dollar being so strong right now is also another reason to take this engine to the USA where I could likely save some cash to divert into another area of the boat.

Decisions......

I am also going to go through the drive and make it fresh. There is an excellent shop close by that I intend to take the drive to.

Lastly, I plan on painting the engine to look cool and redoing the bilge to hopefully resemble something similar to Mike's white F1. My bilge is pretty dirty, being a raceboat and all, and I wouldnt mind it being at the very least 'cleaner'.

This whole excercise is going to begin very soon but mostly after deer season:sifone:

We are also talking about more power but thats a secret for now.

I know I will be asking you guys some questions and also needing some support through what will likely be a major project.

http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w202/ar15meister/DSC00341.jpg



Ship it to Tommy at Cheif motors....the best of the best and makes them look PRETTY :kiss:

Mike

Airpacker
10-23-2009, 04:14 PM
Adam, make sure you check in on the Serious KW party thread.

ar15meister
10-23-2009, 05:50 PM
Ship it to Tommy at Cheif motors....the best of the best and makes them look PRETTY :kiss:

Mike

thanks I have seen his engines and they are gorgeous.

I bet he is super expensive and very busy though so that might not work I dont think.

Dude! Sweet!
10-26-2009, 12:09 PM
Good luck Adam! Should be cool to see it all come together.

ar15meister
01-15-2010, 10:35 PM
http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w202/ar15meister/16856_423394055025_576785025_105540.jpg

http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w202/ar15meister/16856_423394075025_576785025_105540.jpg

ar15meister
01-15-2010, 10:39 PM
http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w202/ar15meister/16856_423394190025_576785025_105540.jpg

http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w202/ar15meister/16856_423394195025_576785025_105540.jpg

http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w202/ar15meister/16856_423394085025_576785025_105540.jpg

tomcei
01-16-2010, 06:58 PM
OH YEA! let the madness begin.

slpcamaross97
01-16-2010, 07:03 PM
Got a few thing in the barn AH?

DAREDEVIL
01-16-2010, 08:20 PM
Got a few thing in the barn AH?

Thats what i thought ,,,,,NICE !!!!!:sifone:

ar15meister
01-16-2010, 09:53 PM
Got a few thing in the barn AH?

;)

Dude! Sweet!
01-18-2010, 01:40 AM
Yow!!! Ok, wait, there's a boat in those pictures?! :sifone:

Paul Tracy Reynard... yummy! And ok, a guess, but the black Atlanic car... Looks like a DB-4 to me. Gotta be one of my all time favorite cars. Probably one of the only things that makes me wish I was 4 inches shorter... Also see an old midget and I'm guessing that the car on the right under the cover is and old IMSA Kelly Challenge series Olds maybe?

How'd I do? It still counts if it's a Greg Moore Reynard by the way... But I think the tail plane looks like the logoing from the last season with Players. OK, and rethinking then, I'd guess it's a 2000 Lola Champ Car chassis not a Reynard, but first look made me think Reynard.

Wow, that's fun. Nice work on the boat by the way! :sifone:

Dude! Sweet!
01-18-2010, 01:44 AM
Dang, you got me... There's at least two Players cars, the one next to the Swift is a Reynard and the one in the shot with your boat's stern is a Lola... Maybe? :D

ar15meister
01-20-2010, 08:37 PM
they are all very famous race cars in Canada and yes Players, Indeck- Moore Tracey, got a few F1 cars, some old Cart stuff and some other various things. We have alot of weird stuff lying around at all times.

Tristar Racing
01-21-2010, 01:08 PM
I like the boat pics, but I vote for more pics of the "weird stuff."

That garage has my attention.

neversatisfied
01-21-2010, 07:31 PM
ar15

The sticker on the exhaust stands for what? (BES)

bigboat28
01-21-2010, 07:44 PM
BES Racing Engines, post number 1

Dude! Sweet!
01-21-2010, 08:31 PM
Adam do you have any bilge shots with the motor in? Just for fun wanted to see how you've got your water routed with the stainer and cooler. Kind of taking a poll to see who's I like best so I can copy it in mine. Thanks.

bigboat28
01-22-2010, 11:25 AM
I think Neversatisfied secretly wants a Pantera. Maybe you should look into that certain staggered 36 being built you saw. LOL

ar15meister
01-22-2010, 04:08 PM
I like the boat pics, but I vote for more pics of the "weird stuff."

That garage has my attention.

top secret!

:sifone:

Dude! Sweet!
01-22-2010, 04:24 PM
top secret!

:sifone:

You guys get nutkicked by the weather?

ar15meister
01-22-2010, 05:40 PM
Adam do you have any bilge shots with the motor in? Just for fun wanted to see how you've got your water routed with the stainer and cooler. Kind of taking a poll to see who's I like best so I can copy it in mine. Thanks.

Not down here but I can post when I get home

ar15meister
01-22-2010, 05:41 PM
You guys get nutkicked by the weather?

I was outside when the so called 'tornado' hit. I was taking a leak in the porto potty and thought it was going to fall over so I can for it nd got soaked. lol

Russo and Steele tents blew over and destroyed some cars

Dude! Sweet!
01-22-2010, 06:55 PM
Not down here but I can post when I get home

Thanks dude!

ar15meister
01-22-2010, 07:56 PM
BES Racing Engines, post number 1

Tony Bischoff builds a helluva motor. I ran the chit out of mine for 2 years.

neversatisfied
01-25-2010, 05:35 PM
I'm going to have to give Tony a hard time. I didn't know he had any engines in boats.
Your right though he builds a heck of a motor.

Dude! Sweet!
01-27-2010, 03:15 PM
Hey also, thinking about building a back seat hatch like yours. When you get home, can you shoot me some pics of that and how it's attached? Thanks.

Still trying to weasel a trip out early next week... We'll see.

ar15meister
03-16-2010, 01:38 PM
Hey also, thinking about building a back seat hatch like yours. When you get home, can you shoot me some pics of that and how it's attached? Thanks.

Still trying to weasel a trip out early next week... We'll see.

dude havent had time to take pics yet I will try and take some and email you this week.

drive is going to be done soon. We did alot of work to it so that it would be basically brand new when it goes back on the boat.

engine is going out this week to the builder, Active Racing Engines in Toronto. Decided to listen to Airpacker and stay local.

I havent had much time to do anything since we are busy at work and we are growing our business right now (moving, etc). Good thing is the new shop is HUGE and I will have my own area for my toys and my own tools etc. We are also installing a hoist for vehicles which will be sick, no more crawling around!

I am moving on with the bilge redo soon. I will post pics. It looks nasty in there right now especially after pulling the engine.

Having never done this before it has been very interesting thus far. I am no mechanic but I have had alot of help from Airpacker (Sean) who has been around for all of my stupid questions. I think it is a really good exercise to do as much by yourself as possible on these boats. Not only financially speaking but because then you know your boat inside and out.

pics to follow.

Mikeb4
03-19-2010, 11:19 PM
dude havent had time to take pics yet I will try and take some and email you this week.

I am moving on with the bilge redo soon. I will post pics. It looks nasty in there right now especially after pulling the engine.

pics to follow.

Yeah! SUBSCRIBED! :lurk5:

Buoy
03-19-2010, 11:31 PM
Ummmm...
We're up to page three of this thread, and five months from when it started.

THERE IS NOT A SINGLE PIC YET!!!

"Lucy, you gots some 'splainin to do":)

Airpacker
03-20-2010, 07:19 AM
Adam moves real slow. He has to stop and explain why he removed every screw, nut and washer to his dad and then endure a 20 minute discussion as to whether he should have or not :)

ar15meister
05-20-2010, 11:22 AM
Airpacker is right, my old man has his own way of doing things which is usually based on whatever is the opposite way of how I want to do it. lol. He helps me alot despite the unrelenting criticism that goes along with it.

Engine is torn apart. Parts are in. Airpacker has carbs. Imco drive is fully rebuilt. Boat is travelling north this weekend and we are starting on the bilge.

Things have moved slowly because I bought a house this year, my girlfriend has a tv show renovating my garage (HGTV):eek:, and we are moving our business to a 3x bigger location over the next few months. We have also been trying to get my Eldorado running 100% right (which thanks to Airpacker it finally is). Lots of excuses!lol. I am trying to get it done but finding time these days is getting harder and harder. I dont know how some people do it especially the ones on the 7am-7pm work schedules like me!

PICS!

http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w202/ar15meister/BoatMotordisassembly076.jpg

http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w202/ar15meister/BoatMotordisassembly077.jpg

http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w202/ar15meister/BoatMotordisassembly078.jpg

http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w202/ar15meister/BoatMotordisassembly081.jpg

ar15meister
05-20-2010, 11:29 AM
http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w202/ar15meister/BoatMotordisassembly082.jpg

OUCH- Old CAMSHAFT

http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w202/ar15meister/BoatMotordisassembly083.jpg

http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w202/ar15meister/BoatMotordisassembly084.jpg

http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w202/ar15meister/BoatMotordisassembly085.jpg

http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w202/ar15meister/BoatMotordisassembly086.jpg

http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w202/ar15meister/BoatMotordisassembly089.jpg

ar15meister
05-20-2010, 11:32 AM
http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w202/ar15meister/BoatMotordisassembly091.jpg

http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w202/ar15meister/BoatMotordisassembly090.jpg

http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w202/ar15meister/BoatMotordisassembly092.jpg

http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w202/ar15meister/BoatMotordisassembly095.jpg

Mikeb4
05-20-2010, 11:35 AM
That cam was about to serve you up some trouble eh! good thing you are cleaning her up! Looks great !

ar15meister
05-20-2010, 11:53 AM
That cam was about to serve you up some trouble eh! good thing you are cleaning her up! Looks great !

If you saw the bill from the engine guys, I would have to say it already did lol.

Premier Perf
05-20-2010, 11:58 AM
my old man has his own way of doing things which is usually based on whatever is the opposite way of how I want to do it. lol.

WOW do i know what you mean by that...they always know more and are NEVER wrong right ?...but damn i love him
:cheers2:

ar15meister
05-20-2010, 12:15 PM
WOW do i know what you mean by that...they always know more and are NEVER wrong right ?...but damn i love him
:cheers2:
:cheers2:

Dude! Sweet!
05-20-2010, 12:23 PM
I feel your pain my pasty cantarded brother! :sifone:

You got to let us know when the HGTV show is going to be on. And you got to sneak in some Pantera gear into the shoot!

tomcei
05-20-2010, 09:31 PM
I feel your pain my pasty cantarded brother! :sifone:

You got to let us know when the HGTV show is going to be on. And you got to sneak in some Pantera gear into the shoot!

that's what I was thinking.


Adam,
I see a pressure washer in your future bro.
Oh yea, and some simple green. :)

ar15meister
05-21-2010, 10:01 AM
it was nasty in there to begin with and with 3 guys in there tearing out the motor it got even worse.

The guy who owned the boat before me, bless his soul, thought it was a good idea to use spray paint to freshen the bilge. Spray paint stains when hit with oil or power steering fluid, dirty shoes, etc.

We have a bit of a project going on.

ar15meister
05-21-2010, 10:06 AM
motor is going to be 540CI 700HP tunnel ram.

My drive guy convinced me that going to a blower setup 900hp wasnt a good idea.

Perlmudder
05-21-2010, 10:29 AM
glad to see you are getting things back together!

Mikeb4
05-22-2010, 08:51 AM
motor is going to be 540CI 700HP tunnel ram.

My drive guy convinced me that going to a blower setup 900hp wasnt a good idea.

According to JO my boat ran 93 salt water with the 750 HP blower motor, since our boats are so similar I wonder what 700HP will do in yours? any target speed you are going for?

rexx28
05-22-2010, 09:30 AM
I used epoxy paint in the bilge and it never looked like that, lol, I had that boat from 02 till it became yours and it was always clean, scuff the bilge and use the west system epoxy on it. just an ides

rexx28
05-22-2010, 09:32 AM
Alan make shure your engine builder checks the wall thickness on that block, Bisoff had told me next rebulid I should consider a new block, Jeff

tsp
05-22-2010, 10:25 AM
ar15meister,
Forget about the tv shows and the moving you got the sweetest 28 around. Get that Ebony girl patched up and bring her down to Lake Ontario.
Even better, I'll save you the trouble of putting it back together and trade you my 24. It got a new transom assembly and is ready to rock. Been out twice already. Kicked a Baja 240's ass the other day.

ar15meister
05-22-2010, 06:30 PM
Alan make shure your engine builder checks the wall thickness on that block, Bisoff had told me next rebulid I should consider a new block, Jeff

Jeff,

Good to hear from you pal. I am taking care of it as best I can. I will touch base with the guys building the engine regarding the block but they told me the block and the crank are in very good shape. They had nothing but good things to say about Tony's work and arent doing much different except a few little things. I got 2 years out of it before it blew up so thanks are in order lol.

The carbs were set up a bit strangely, having some parts from both 750 and 850. Airpacker told me that there was a reason for this but what the reasoning behind the setup was isnt apparent. It would be interesting to know.

As far as speeds, the boat ran between 78 and 82 before depending on conditions and fuel, passengers, etc. I am sure there is more in it but I wont really know until I wire in the GPS speedo and I can phuck around and see without using the handheld.

slpcamaross97
05-23-2010, 03:12 PM
Looking good......

ar15meister
05-26-2010, 04:04 PM
http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w202/ar15meister/IMG00460-1.jpg

ar15meister
05-26-2010, 04:06 PM
also, snapped a couple pics of my new '76 Eldorado when I was visiting my old man the other night.

http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w202/ar15meister/IMG00441.jpg

ar15meister
05-26-2010, 04:08 PM
another one I was lookin at earlier today thought you guys would like. my old man had a few of the hot rods out this night.

http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w202/ar15meister/Runner1.jpg

tomcei
05-26-2010, 07:33 PM
sweet. you guys got it going on!!

blackhawk
05-27-2010, 02:50 PM
another one I was lookin at earlier today thought you guys would like. my old man had a few of the hot rods out this night.

http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w202/ar15meister/Runner1.jpg

Is that a Roadrunner?

ar15meister
05-27-2010, 03:05 PM
Is that a Roadrunner?

a12 Roadrunner.

Mikeb4
05-27-2010, 10:00 PM
http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w202/ar15meister/IMG00460-1.jpg

Going with some tricked out bowls??

ar15meister
05-28-2010, 09:16 AM
Going with some tricked out bowls??

:sifone:

I am going to try and make it look a bit nicer than it did.

http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w202/ar15meister/boat044.jpg

stormrider
05-28-2010, 11:06 AM
btw, not many boats can pull off a dry exhaust...
fortunately, yours is one of them. :D