Proposal for classes

[F1-00 Racing]

This only applies to Vee's as I am not familiar enough with cats to get the factors right. What this proposal does is eliminate a bunch of classes and slims the vee side down to 4. It eliminates the any kind of GPS system used for scoring and hopefully makes for equal racing between boats, drivers, and throttlemen. Also a huge concern is to bring the cost of racing down as then the extra monies could be applied to more marketable items to promote our sport and maybe it will turn into the show that I feel it should in the publics eyes. I know I will get beat up as it is obvious that if there are 100 racers, then there would be 90 different agendas. Please tell me what I have done wrong with it so I can make it better as I hope that this will put 20-30 boats in a class each like the old days of F1/F2 that everyone raves about, and to boot everyone will be equal.

1) V-Twin Canopy- pwr to weight with the factor being 7.77
2) V-Single Canopy- pwr to weight with the factor being 8.95
3) V-Twin Open- pwr to weight with the factor being 7.77
4) V-Single Open- pwr to weight with the factor being 8.95

ALL Motors are to be sealed at approved stations and the weight will be posted on the transoms for inspectors to be able to notate upon removal by crane.All motors have to be fuel injected, to much undetectable play in carbs. I know Tyler has a fuel rail system that coverts it over, I am sure others offer it as well. Pwr to weight is used in Class 1 and P1 and no it isnt perfect, but it works and they have several boats in one class instead of 20 different classes. It simplifies it for the fans as much as possible and keeps expenses down. It allows the older heavier boats to have the bigger horsepower and still be competitive with the newer potato chips. Also boats such as the Cat Killer etc would go into an exhibition class with no purse as I dont think they would be too competitive with 23,310 lbs on board. Also to with making it smaller horsepower then you will get more reliability and less expense instead of almost all of the SVU boats breaking every race, well except for that guy with 525's.

The biggest factor behind my proposal is to make racing, racing again. It takes out any possible GPS spikes and also takes away the first to 75, 85, etc wins, now you have to compete with other boats. Everyone now becomes spec and with the proper technical over site, it might put this sport on the map.

Now fire away and tell me what is wrong with it, Dean OPA works so lets not fix it, so no need to respond. I want a way to be able to do away with GPS's altogether and make it racing again. I am open to all criticism as all I hear are problems but here is a proposal for solution.

[F1-00 Racing]

and why would 75% have to go and F themselves? all vees would fit in one of those 4 classes..

[F1-00 Racing]

ok I rephrased to make you happy, to seal a motor the cost can be re-negotiated but in the past it was 500, fuel rails I will have to look into. As Bruce said if you cant afford to race or finish a lap then you shouldnt be in racing

[1waterboy1]

This only applies to Vee's as I am not familiar enough with cats to get the factors right. What this proposal does is eliminate a bunch of classes and slims the vee side down to 4. It eliminates the any kind of GPS system used for scoring and hopefully makes for equal racing between boats, drivers, and throttlemen. Also a huge concern is to bring the cost of racing down as then the extra monies could be applied to more marketable items to promote our sport and maybe it will turn into the show that I feel it should in the publics eyes. I know I will get beat up as it is obvious that if there are 100 racers, then there would be 90 different agendas. Please tell me what I have done wrong with it so I can make it better as I hope that this will put 20-30 boats in a class each like the old days of F1/F2 that everyone raves about, and to boot everyone will be equal.

1) V-Twin Canopy- pwr to weight with the factor being 7.77
2) V-Single Canopy- pwr to weight with the factor being 8.95
3) V-Twin Open- pwr to weight with the factor being 7.77
4) V-Single Open- pwr to weight with the factor being 8.95

ALL Motors are to be sealed at approved stations and the weight will be posted on the transoms for inspectors to be able to notate upon removal by crane.All motors have to be fuel injected, to much undetectable play in carbs. I know Tyler has a fuel rail system that coverts it over, I am sure others offer it as well. Pwr to weight is used in Class 1 and P1 and no it isnt perfect, but it works and they have several boats in one class instead of 20 different classes. It simplifies it for the fans as much as possible and keeps expenses down. It allows the older heavier boats to have the bigger horsepower and still be competitive with the newer potato chips. Also boats such as the Cat Killer etc would go into an exhibition class with no purse as I dont think they would be too competitive with 23,310 lbs on board. Also to with making it smaller horsepower then you will get more reliability and less expense instead of almost all of the SVU boats breaking every race, well except for that guy with 525's.

The biggest factor behind my proposal is to make racing, racing again. It takes out any possible GPS spikes and also takes away the first to 75, 85, etc wins, now you have to compete with other boats. Everyone now becomes spec and with the proper technical over site, it might put this sport on the map.

Now fire away and tell me what is wrong with it, Dean OPA works so lets not fix it, so no need to respond. I want a way to be able to do away with GPS's altogether and make it racing again. I am open to all criticism as all I hear are problems but here is a proposal for solution.

Trent,
Anything to streamline our sport should be strongly considered.Bracket racing certainly has its issues;but it really does allow any boat to race at least somewhat competitively.While the power to weight ratio seems to work to some degree;it does not address the hull configurations(stepped verses conventional) or hull length.What are your thoughts on this issues?I would also like to see our sport get back to more ocean racing...this would certainly help level the playing as well.

[phragle]

if the pwr to wt ration is identical, whats the difference between lid and no lid?? why make 4 classes out of what could be 2?

[skaterdave]

a few issues

first - gps is the cheapest easiest way to tech. theres too much grey area involved with having engine go to dyno shops and the rest of the driveline. say bravo, #6, arneson and shaft drive. now if you could get someone to have a on site dyno that hooks to a prop shaft than this might be the way to go to your speced hp to weight classes.

fuel injection would have to have an air restrictor, there are far more ways to cheat over a carburator. hence the reason nascar and almost every other motorsports governing body specs a carb and techs them with a no or no-go gauge.

your idea seems just like the factory classes which have been tried and failed with the exception of smitty and his 4 SV/bravos.

next why have two of the same exact classes for with basically the only difference being a canopy ? i don't have an answer for this question other than the SVL's fit nicely into P3 and the benefit of a canopy should offset being a shorter boat. agian if they have enough boats (more than 6 or so) to put on there on show let their own class.

cost of having tech done correctly and keeping track of the hp to weight boats would mandate full time inspectors just for these classes. this would be more expensive than have to just check GPS. and remember your reasoning is it to bring out more boats and make it more affordable. this does neither, in my opinion.

i still don't see that big issue with gps. its just like drag racing where you set you car to run a certain speed which is just at the limit of your equipment and then try to match it everytime.

if your like DD and breaking out all the time, IMO your sandbaggin, the org's officails should move you up a class.

next i could only imagine the termoil if the was tried over gps. honsestly if gps is seen as a problem than teching this mess would get real ugly real quick. hence take all the fun out of it and probably run off more than it would bring in.

[F1-00 Racing]

if the pwr to wt ration is identical, whats the difference between lid and no lid?? why make 4 classes out of what could be 2?

I'll use two boats as the models are still actively racing. Simmons(34 Phantom Open) is an open twin with stock 500's, Jim has told me that in perfect ideal conditions he will only run 88 and in its prime it ran 92. Pump It(35 Fountain canopy) has 500's as well and I have been 107 in a sister ship, identical setup. Just as the former F1's would run 78-81 in race trim and SVL's would race 88-91 slight advantage to having a lid

[F1-00 Racing]

Trent,
Anything to streamline our sport should be strongly considered.Bracket racing certainly has its issues;but it really does allow any boat to race at least somewhat competitively.While the power to weight ratio seems to work to some degree;it does not address the hull configurations(stepped verses conventional) or hull length.What are your thoughts on this issues?I would also like to see our sport get back to more ocean racing...this would certainly help level the playing as well.

conventional hull can have stand off box, step/notched hulls couldnt, hull lengths could be added, this applies to the smaller boats. Obviously, length stipulations could be added to each class.

As far as ocean racing, your right, just as Nascar has super speedways, road courses, short tracks, etc I feel that a combination of all water should be in the equation in order to determine the best of the best, not one or the other. We have to keep in mind where we can put on the best show and keep our equipment together for the next show. I love the competition just like the next, maybe more than the next, but we have to keep in mind that a show is what puts food on the table, viewing is paramount. Miami for example after you factor the small sand bar, we run a fairly good distance offshore and cant be seen. My spotter knew our boat because of my red top, not because he could read my decals or numbers(and yes he is very literate)

[DAREDEVIL]

Just for the note,,,A RACER THAT RACED 1/2 RACES IN THE LAST 2 YEARS ,,IS NOW TRYING TO CHANGE EVERYTHING AND BASH RACERS THAT TRY HARD TO ACTUALLY RACE ?????? TOOOOO FUNNY.:rofl:

U SHOULD STOP DRINKING TRENT !!


OH,,,AND THAT WITHOUT ME WOULDN'T EVEN SHOWED UP IN CLEARWATER !!!! HAHAHAHA

[F1-00 Racing]

a few issues

first - gps is the cheapest easiest way to tech. theres too much grey area involved with having engine go to dyno shops and the rest of the driveline. say bravo, #6, arneson and shaft drive. now if you could get someone to have a on site dyno that hooks to a prop shaft than this might be the way to go to your speced hp to weight classes.

fuel injection would have to have an air restrictor, there are far more ways to cheat over a carburator. hence the reason nascar and almost every other motorsports governing body specs a carb and techs them with a no or no-go gauge.

your idea seems just like the factory classes which have been tried and failed with the exception of smitty and his 4 SV/bravos.

next why have two of the same exact classes for with basically the only difference being a canopy ? i don't have an answer for this question other than the SVL's fit nicely into P3 and the benefit of a canopy should offset being a shorter boat. agian if they have enough boats (more than 6 or so) to put on there on show let their own class.

cost of having tech done correctly and keeping track of the hp to weight boats would mandate full time inspectors just for these classes. this would be more expensive than have to just check GPS. and remember your reasoning is it to bring out more boats and make it more affordable. this does neither, in my opinion.

i still don't see that big issue with gps. its just like drag racing where you set you car to run a certain speed which is just at the limit of your equipment and then try to match it everytime.

if your like DD and breaking out all the time, IMO your sandbaggin, the org's officails should move you up a class.

next i could only imagine the termoil if the was tried over gps. honsestly if gps is seen as a problem than teching this mess would get real ugly real quick. hence take all the fun out of it and probably run off more than it would bring in.

1) We both have issues with DD but in his defense, he was allowed to run P5 in one race and yes he broke out, he was then moved back into P4 for the next race, to date I dont believe he has ever broken out of the current P4 format. you bring up some valid points Dave, but please dont go after him, I offered a proposal as all I hear is problems, so here is a possible solution.

2) I agree about drag racing as I did bracket racing in HS, but the I dare anyone to try and hit the target two laps in a row, I have never seen two laps be the same condition wise in all of my years in racing, in drag racing the only change I have seen is track temp.

3) Here is my main issue with P-class, it was originally created for the weekend warrior to come out be a part of the action and look at the "Pro Series" and see what would be a good fit for them. It started with 70,80,90,100,110. It was 250 to enter and the winner got a checkered flag and a trophy, nothing more nothing less. Very simple if you ask me. Then guys wanted to make a career out of P-class and using P5 as an example you had to have a potential 75-76 mph boat to be able to win in a 70 mph class and a lot of breakouts happened, instead of moving the breakout boats up, lets raise the speed to 72 which then to be competitive you had to be able to run 77-78. Now we have someone who figured the trick out, built a better mouse trap, put a 850hp and propped down but made a torque monster. But it still isnt enough as now we have to bump the speeds up to 75 in order to draw some more boats from the north. When will it end, as you said about DD, he was bumped up, Frank and I broke out in 04 and we were bumped up, instead of raising the speeds every 3 years or every year for that matter bump the teams up and leave the speeds alone. If they dont bump up then dq them every time they breakout, they'll get the hint at some point.

In conclusion, every marketable racing series on tv and so on is spec racing. Nascar, motorcross, rally cars, indy, etc all spec.

As I said Dave, you make very valid points, and I know as everyone else on here knows I have gone after OSS a time or two, ok maybe more, but if we look back at their original 2004 lineup there was only 4 classes and what a show that was, there was like 10 boats in every class. Then it got dilluted with I think 7-8 more classes and egoes and where is OSS now? The only addition to that 4 class format might be a P(ProAm) on Saturdays as a feeder system to the Sunday show. Sometimes its best to keep it simple and if they would have left their original format alone, I feel that OSS would be king right now.

Is my proposal the fix, hell no, but as I have said I see no one offering solutions except "OPA works" hes right, for the moment, add entry fees/ lower the purse and it will back to the 2003 numbers of 15 boats before anyone blinks. I hope Smitty can continue what hes started.

My bottom line goal is to simplify this sport and bring it to the masses, you know the business model that has worked, moonshiners to megastars, why cant we bring this thing from drug runners to megastars? We need to create an equal playing field and let talent win the races, not the biggest wallet.

[SVL66]

My vote is to leave everything as it is. Changing the rule structure now will only chase teams away. Not attract more.

GO YANKEES

[phragle]

I'll use two boats as the models are still actively racing. Simmons(34 Phantom Open) is an open twin with stock 500's, Jim has told me that in perfect ideal conditions he will only run 88 and in its prime it ran 92. Pump It(35 Fountain canopy) has 500's as well and I have been 107 in a sister ship, identical setup. Just as the former F1's would run 78-81 in race trim and SVL's would race 88-91 slight advantage to having a lid
88 to 107.....sawzall the lid, change class and dominate... Smitty's world works right now... P classes are working, V is comptitive and will probably grow... I just want to see a bunch of boats bouncing around as I watch the race and hope I don;t have to stop watching and start working...

[Dude! Sweet!]

I agree with bruce other than the Yankees suck...

Why not a claim rule?

[shifter]

We had gps tracking at the last races on the boats..... works well.

3 classes...

you'll fit in one of them.

pat W

[MikeyFIN]

if your like DD and breaking out all the time, IMO your sandbaggin, the org's officails should move you up a class.



I Wish it would be that way but it isn´t. But the DD will have some improvement in the future to get the boat to finish.

I have a few issues I like to do and they are getting done in the future.

Regarding these rules.. well sealed engines ,,naah,, instead a restrictor plate or GPS as it is.
In Offshore GPS gives the T-man some meaning, a Restrictor plate would give it to the Mechanics... and don´t ask how I know it :sifone:

[MikeyFIN]

conventional hull can have stand off box, step/notched hulls couldnt, hull lengths could be added, this applies to the smaller boats. Obviously, length stipulations could be added to each class.


Actually on a notch bottom a standoff box is to 95% useless, it´s cake on a cake.




As far as ocean racing, your right, just as Nascar has super speedways, road courses, short tracks, etc I feel that a combination of all water should be in the equation in order to determine the best of the best, not one or the other. We have to keep in mind where we can put on the best show and keep our equipment together for the next show. I love the competition just like the next, maybe more than the next, but we have to keep in mind that a show is what puts food on the table, viewing is paramount. Miami for example after you factor the small sand bar, we run a fairly good distance offshore and cant be seen. My spotter knew our boat because of my red top, not because he could read my decals or numbers(and yes he is very literate)

So you mean some races should be run on a lake in flat water too ???

Trent just busting your nutters but hey this is offshore. Let the Spectators come out to the sea or watch from a screen/ TV´s on Race Channels ?

[MikeyFIN]

my vote is to leave everything as it is. Changing the rule structure now will only chase teams away. Not attract more.

Go reds


+1

[Ratickle]

Just for the note,,,A RACER THAT RACED 1/2 RACES IN THE LAST 2 YEARS ,,IS NOW TRYING TO CHANGE EVERYTHING AND BASH RACERS THAT TRY HARD TO ACTUALLY RACE ?????? TOOOOO FUNNY.:rofl:

U SHOULD STOP DRINKING TRENT !!


OH,,,AND THAT WITHOUT ME WOULDN'T EVEN SHOWED UP IN CLEARWATER !!!! HAHAHAHA

Come on Scott, it takes all of us to have a civil discussion to improve racing. Everyone has ideas. Picking out the best takes discussion. And, turn off the caps..

I have respect for anyone who tries to race. It isn't easy in any class at any venue.

[Ratickle]

We had gps tracking at the last races on the boats..... works well.

3 classes...

you'll fit in one of them.

pat W

Have some more info Pat?

[Ratickle]

3) Here is my main issue with P-class, it was originally created for the weekend warrior to come out be a part of the action and look at the "Pro Series" and see what would be a good fit for them. It started with 70,80,90,100,110. It was 250 to enter and the winner got a checkered flag and a trophy, nothing more nothing less. Very simple if you ask me. Then guys wanted to make a career out of P-class and using P5 as an example you had to have a potential 75-76 mph boat to be able to win in a 70 mph class and a lot of breakouts happened, instead of moving the breakout boats up, lets raise the speed to 72 which then to be competitive you had to be able to run 77-78. Now we have someone who figured the trick out, built a better mouse trap, put a 850hp and propped down but made a torque monster. But it still isnt enough as now we have to bump the speeds up to 75 in order to draw some more boats from the north. When will it end, as you said about DD, he was bumped up, Frank and I broke out in 04 and we were bumped up, instead of raising the speeds every 3 years or every year for that matter bump the teams up and leave the speeds alone. If they dont bump up then dq them every time they breakout, they'll get the hint at some point.



This is well thought out and should be the focus of discussion for all orgs.

My opinions;

OPA has the best current structure for P classes. It works, the proof is in the increase in boat counts during this economic downturn. Run the numbers against any other classs or org.

I believe it has not been changed, so that helps all to improve. If the rules stay the same, I see no issue. If you want to tweak your boat and move your boat down, I see no issue. But, I'd just like a little more clatification on the written rules.

I don't know what your issue was with the GPS unit in OPA Trent. I'd like to hear. My guess, they worked on it to make sure it would not happen in the future. Frank takes care of his babies.....:sifone: But I'd like to hear.
I think theirs is the fairest currently. Frank tests them all the time. I've seen 2 to 3 tenths in identical GPS's in the same vehicle. In SBI I'd buy 10, run them all at once, and return all but the lowest reading one. ANyway, what happened?

[Sean Stinson]

if the pwr to wt ration is identical, whats the difference between lid and no lid?? why make 4 classes out of what could be 2?



I think the safety factor comes into play as the open boats would start going to fast and if an accident did happen the likelihood of injury or fatality is increased!!!!

I am sorry I went back and reread the post I think the power to weight for the canopies need to be the same 7.77 and the opens the same at 7.85 regardless of single or twin

[Sean Stinson]

I have to agree with Trent he has some very, very valid ideas here gentlemen take them and run with them!!!!

[imco offshore]

a few issues

first - gps is the cheapest easiest way to tech. theres too much grey area involved with having engine go to dyno shops and the rest of the driveline. say bravo, #6, arneson and shaft drive. now if you could get someone to have a on site dyno that hooks to a prop shaft than this might be the way to go to your speced hp to weight classes.

fuel injection would have to have an air restrictor, there are far more ways to cheat over a carburator. hence the reason nascar and almost every other motorsports governing body specs a carb and techs them with a no or no-go gauge.

your idea seems just like the factory classes which have been tried and failed with the exception of smitty and his 4 SV/bravos.

next why have two of the same exact classes for with basically the only difference being a canopy ? i don't have an answer for this question other than the SVL's fit nicely into P3 and the benefit of a canopy should offset being a shorter boat. agian if they have enough boats (more than 6 or so) to put on there on show let their own class.

cost of having tech done correctly and keeping track of the hp to weight boats would mandate full time inspectors just for these classes. this would be more expensive than have to just check GPS. and remember your reasoning is it to bring out more boats and make it more affordable. this does neither, in my opinion.

i still don't see that big issue with gps. its just like drag racing where you set you car to run a certain speed which is just at the limit of your equipment and then try to match it everytime.

if your like DD and breaking out all the time, IMO your sandbaggin, the org's officails should move you up a class.

next i could only imagine the termoil if the was tried over gps. honsestly if gps is seen as a problem than teching this mess would get real ugly real quick. hence take all the fun out of it and probably run off more than it would bring in.

dave you can,t put svl.s in p-3 we could never pull off the corners like the twin engines or maintain a speed ,, we don,t have the tourque of 2 engines, ps why would having a canopy make things even ? :USA:

[SVL66]

George is right. the SVLs can barely keep up with the twin engine boats in P4.

[imco offshore]

scotty i,m not trying to bust balls here,,, but i think trent ran further in his one race, than you did in the last 2 yrs ? not sure but think about ok maybe 1 year,,, but i know you get the point, everybody is trying to,help the sport

[DAREDEVIL]

scotty i,m not trying to bust balls here,,, but i think trent ran further in his one race, than you did in the last 2 yrs ? not sure but think about ok maybe 1 year,,, but i know you get the point, everybody is trying to,help the sport

George,,,trent did not go further in that time then me ,,,but anyhow i do get your point,,,LOL

Which ,,hey ,,,i now have it done to go around and round,,,it just did not want to cooperate with me in the past .hehehe:sifone:

Also the diffrents is ,,buying aboat out of the box,,,,and bulding my own ,,like i did. Think about that.

[imco offshore]

I think the safety factor comes into play as the open boats would start going to fast and if an accident did happen the likelihood of injury or fatality is increased!!!!

I am sorry I went back and reread the post I think the power to weight for the canopies need to be the same 7.77 and the opens the same at 7.85 regardless of single or twin

i agree with sean why do we want to penelize the canopys, our center of gravity is much higher than open boats ,, we need a parity ? we can argue this for a long time ?

[DAREDEVIL]

Don't u guys see what Trent is doing here ????

He is trying to find new classes so he can fit in with his boat and be THE MAN,,,he is a crybaby,,because he needs to run P4 and they will not let him run P5,,,, he now plames me for not being in KW,,,told me last night in a text message...... i am the one that should be crying.

This is redicilous,,,this thread is about sealed engines and spec class ,,,not about what we have now and how to improve it,,,,this is about running of the newcommers and also most of the current teams.

Just my 2 c.

C-YA:seeya:

PS.: u wanna race ,,,build a boat for the class and come and try to beat me,,,u all know my record in finishing is not that great,,,but come out and try me !!!!!!!!!!

BE SAFE:USA:

[MikeyFIN]

hmmmmm

1. Get a Boat Trailer and Truck.
2. Get the boat dialed in
3. Get a Crew.
4. Get money to race
5. Try not be the slowest.
6. Finish the races.
7. Beat Scott Rutherford/ Daredevil...

Hmmm that´s a long list for a starter.

Let´s actually try to be civil here and not just pick on each other on the board.
That will only function for one purpose.
No sitdown in KW and only arguing.

Man sounds like home already...

[Ratickle]

Let´s actually try to be civil here and not just pick on each other on the board.
That will only function for one purpose.
No sitdown in KW and only arguing.

Man sounds like home already...

Exactly, well said. Cheap shots are exactly that. You fire them off, they're gonna come back. And, just like the past, nothing will be moved forward.

[F1-00 Racing]

My vote is to leave everything as it is. Changing the rule structure now will only chase teams away. Not attract more.

GO YANKEES

Your exactly right Bruce, some teams would be chased off, my theory is to create quality not quantity. The better the show, the more marketable it becomes. Racers make money instead of spend money. Interesting concept huh? Everyone gets hung up on boat count. What good is 100 boats if you only have 2-3 boats in each class? In Nascar you have anywhere from 45-55 cars show up to make a 43 care field. Please read my paragraph on the original OSS plan. It could have worked.

[SVL66]

Your exactly right Bruce, some teams would be chased off, my theory is to create quality not quantity. The better the show, the more marketable it becomes. Racers make money instead of spend money. Interesting concept huh? Everyone gets hung up on boat count. What good is 100 boats if you only have 2-3 boats in each class? In Nascar you have anywhere from 45-55 cars show up to make a 43 care field. Please read my paragraph on the original OSS plan. It could have worked.



our class (svl) is striving toward that goal. It may not happen overnight. But we know we still have a viable class. hopefully, we will all come together and run a schedule that works for everyone. We are not loyal to any association. best sites, best fans, best purse. best bang for our hard earned buck. our goal is to get 8 -10 boats back out there for next year. time will tell

[F1-00 Racing]

Actually on a notch bottom a standoff box is to 95% useless, it´s cake on a cake.

I said no box on notched/step hulls Mika:rofl:



you mean some races should be run on a lake in flat water too ???

Trent just busting your nutters but hey this is offshore. Let the Spectators come out to the sea or watch from a screen/ TV´s on Race Channels ?

Yes, I am thinking a 75%-25% ratio 75% being run in offshore waters, but in the spectrum of everything, in order to make it more marketable you have to reach out and bring it to the masses. In the US, more people live inland as opposed to near an ocean. Also a lot of inland courses provide a way to document numbers(attendance) Tons of people go to Sarasota, but all you will get is estimates, I mean how can you accurately count people on a public beach? In corporate America they don't care about estimates, that want documented facts.

[F1-00 Racing]

Exactly, well said. Cheap shots are exactly that. You fire them off, they're gonna come back. And, just like the past, nothing will be moved forward.

Are cheap coming my way? hmmm oh well I guess they are blocked from my viewing, anyways consider the source and go from there. No need for me to respond, I am better than that.

[MikeyFIN]

I said no box on notched/step hulls Mika:rofl:


Yeah right but I made a point it´s useless to ban them with a notch as it doesn´t usually gain any...makes mostly matters worse.






Yes, I am thinking a 75%-25% ratio 75% being run in offshore waters, but in the spectrum of everything, in order to make it more marketable you have to reach out and bring it to the masses. In the US, more people live inland as opposed to near an ocean. Also a lot of inland courses provide a way to document numbers(attendance) Tons of people go to Sarasota, but all you will get is estimates, I mean how can you accurately count people on a public beach? In corporate America they don't care about estimates, that want documented facts.

Doesn´t those living in Inland follow other forms of motorsport?
I mean those living close to water follow boatracing usually and those who don´t look elsewhere.

I mean I was an exhange student in Cincinnati Area and there Stock/Sprint Cars and Drag racing ruled.
I saw some powerboats but not many...


the problem with corp anything is boatraces estimated head counts doesn´t give them any facts and therefore the sponsorships are hard to justify to the board/beancounters.

But that´s offshore Folks.

[MikeyFIN]

Are cheap coming my way? hmmm oh well I guess they are blocked from my viewing, anyways consider the source and go from there. No need for me to respond, I am better than that.

We are all low level BUMS in the P classes basically and all we can do to the sport is keep our classes straight and easy to follow and race.
So lets act just the way we act in the pits, help each other so we get to the starting line and after the flag drops everyones is on their own unless there´s someones life at stake.

[Ratickle]

Inland doesn't mean no water here. There are the great lakes and many large reservoirs. LOTO, Lake St Clair, Lake Mead, Havasu, Great Lakes, etc are all plenty big enough with massive amounts of performance boaters who love to go to boating events. Eliminating them from a solid business plan is not a good idea.

[sbracing]

Are these proposals regarding P class boats or the rest of the fleet? I don't think any wholesale changes are needed in the P class structure, whether it is OPA or SBI's model. The changes needed regard the " show " classes. These are the classes that need the rework. These are the classes that would be the sponsor attracting, televised, promoted classes. If we are concerned about he sport moving forward, these are the classes that need to be fixed. Quit nitpicking the sportsman classes. They work.

[MikeyFIN]

Inland doesn't mean no water here. There are the great lakes and many lkarge reservoirs. LOTO, Lake St Clair, Lake Mead, Havasu, Great Lakes, etc are all plenty big enough weth massive amounts of performance boaters who love to go to boating events. Eliminating them from a solid business plan is not a good idea.

Hey our country is called the home of the Thousand lakes..and Our WRC rally is known as the 1000 Lakes (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uL4IW4_y3lU)...


And I don´t actually call those lakes and LOTO Inland... They got water and [power]boating communities.
Actually there´s hard to fine States you can´t arrange a boatrace but thenagain which kind draws a crowd is not our issue either is it? We just want unified rules right ??

I mean Hydros and Dragboats are more up the alley on some lakes and rivers.

[SVL66]

Are these proposals regarding P class boats or the rest of the fleet? I don't think any wholesale changes are needed in the P class structure, whether it is OPA or SBI's model. The changes needed regard the " show " classes. These are the classes that need the rework. These are the classes that would be the sponsor attracting, televised, promoted classes. If we are concerned about he sport moving forward, these are the classes that need to be fixed. Quit nitpicking the sportsman classes. They work.

Dont worry...Im pretty sure the OPA teams are satisfied with the current structure. Theres not much more you can do without adding more classes. Maybe just tighten up the reigns a little. And polish up the show a bit.

[Ratickle]

No need for me to respond, I am better than that.

Thanks. :)

[sbracing]

Dont worry...Im pretty sure the OPA teams are satisfied with the current structure. Theres not much more you can do without adding more classes. Maybe just tighten up the reigns a little. And polish up the show a bit.

I'm not worried. We have a good thing. Not everyone is going to embrace it, and that is OK.

As a long time fan of the sport, I would like to see the big boats get their stuff together to further the sport. I am involved in Grand-Am Rolex and Koni
road racing and I know what a pro series can be....I just don't know if it is possible in offshore.

[F1-00 Racing]

I have to agree with Trent he has some very, very valid ideas here gentlemen take them and run with them!!!!


I appreciate, but Sean keep in mind it is only a proposal. I am really frustrated that we as racers come on here and complain(including myself) and nobody has any solutions or even trys to come up with one. Its to the point that I feel if offshore were perfect, people would come on the boards to complain that its perfect.

Yes I am biased as I came from true spec racing. It created a race between drivers, throttleman, and boat design. Now being in a Fountain, I agree Reggie has destroyed every class he has touched with his innovative designs. Its a fact I cant run away from.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but to build a boat for P-class, you build a boat with moderate hp but a chitload of torque and win the race to the max speed and then hope that someone breaks or messes up a turn. My theory is if I am 200 yards ahead and I am doing 74.8 and the boat behind is doing 74.8 then what is the only way for him to catch me? Break out! wow now that is some exciting racing there.

Some people say that I am ****ed about my boat essentially being a bastard boat. Nope not ****ed, but as I said, I wont ever run P-class again as an owner. My boat was built for the F1 class, it doesn't exist anymore and to make the boat conform to a P class means approx $10,000 and makes her very unsafe. I think its smarter for me to invest $15,000 into her and finish the cockpit and cabin and have fun with her and the family. Shes been a great boat to run, but after a few years, great race horses are put out to pasture, its Ole Betsy's time. Plus spec has always been cheaper for me to run/maintain than any P-class boat I have been affiliated with.

In all my years of racing, bmx, motorcross, go-karts, cars, etc I have never raced a computer until boat racing. I always raced against humans and their machines.

I also agree with everyone that OPA works, but I have thought of a few questions. You had classes 1-6 and they worked, so now you do away with TKO and class 2 and create a non-sealed, non-teched class w/o a computer. Ummm everyone wants to bust my balls that OPA works, great!!! but all I am proposing is a sealed, proper tech, non computer system to bring racing back to the human element. And besides a spin out, when hasnt Smitty won?

[skaterdave]

dave you can,t put svl.s in p-3 we could never pull off the corners like the twin engines or maintain a speed ,, we don,t have the tourque of 2 engines, ps why would having a canopy make things even ? :USA:

just throwing out there what the non-canopy guys seems to think. and i thought you guys ran in the 90's,

oopppps my mistake = p4 is what i meant to say.

i'm all for safety, just that some non-canopy people get ****y running side by side with canopys. its a comfort level thing. and i guess the idea is tha canopied boats can run harder into the turns.

[Sean Stinson]

dave you can,t put svl.s in p-3 we could never pull off the corners like the twin engines or maintain a speed ,, we don,t have the tourque of 2 engines, ps why would having a canopy make things even ? :USA:

Thats not what I was saying in my post open boats need to run in there distinct class and canopy boats run in there's......What I was saying the rule needs to be the same for the open boats regardless if it's twin or single and the same for the canopy boats but you still have all classes mentioned


Also another thought would be like mentioned before have the open vees run P class where they fit..... And the canopy boats will be the spec class group!!

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

I'm not worried. We have a good thing. Not everyone is going to embrace it, and that is OK.

As a long time fan of the sport, I would like to see the big boats get their stuff together to further the sport. I am involved in Grand-Am Rolex and Koni
road racing and I know what a pro series can be....I just don't know if it is possible in offshore.

I agree. Further I see the bulk of the racers exist in single engine open boats. I see no upside of grouping them all together.

SVL single canopy spec class does not need reconfiguring.

Twin engine open boats are unlikely to appreciate the change. Try to match up TKO and Simmons in one race. Good luck.

Only Twin canopy #6 boats and boats with other drives will benefit from Power to weight.

Finally, Trent this is so typical. A guy shows up races one race and then wants to change everything.

My proposal. Go race a full a full season, get to know your competitors and make changes as a group in the class you participate in.

[F1-00 Racing]

Finally, Trent this is so typical. A guy shows up races one race and then wants to change everything.

My proposal. Go race a full a full season, get to know your competitors and make changes as a group in the class you participate in.

I've raced several full seasons in several different classes including 03-04 fully in P class. No I dont have the length of service to this sport that you do, but I do have several national, world, and kilos on my resume just as you. I'm not exactly a newbie to this sport. In 04 we were one race from clinching the national title and went up to Reggieville, broke out, and was bumped up to the class that had a 38 Scarab with twin 750's and a 42 Fountain with twin diesels. I love Ole Betsy, but come on, nonetheless the boat was parked for that final race.

Side note, no matter how glorified my resume is, my resume and 5 bucks will get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks. In order to have that kind of resume you would have had to race complete seasons is my point

[Sean Stinson]

How many classes were there in the 80's Jim.....Super, Open, Modified, Pro Stock, and Stock as well as the Sportsman Classes A, B, C, & D

So if you take that model you could make the Sportsman Classes the P Classes 1-5 because thats all you need

Super = Extreme (turbines)
Open = Open class Cats
Modified = Super Vee Unlimited and Super Cats Vees would allow SC or Turbos Cats N/A
Pro Stock = 2 Classes ( SCL & Super Vee) 525 Spec Engine
Stock = X-Cat or Cat Outboard

What ye say to that!!!!!

[F1-00 Racing]

And for everyone, change is a double edged sword. People get in comfort zones and dont like it, but in being directly involved in this sport for 9 years now, we are just a bunch of dogs chasing our tails. Its the same vicious cycle. If we want to take this sport to the next level change is necessary.

The business plan is there to use, its worked since 1972 and hasnt looked back, I am just surprised no one has taken from that established business plan and implemented it. The question I have is how do we get there as well?

[Ratickle]

How many classes were there in the 80's Jim.....Super, Open, Modified, Pro Stock, and Stock as well as the Sportsman Classes A, B, C, & D

So if you take that model you could make the Sportsman Classes the P Classes 1-5 because thats all you need

Super = Extreme (turbines)
Open = Open class Cats
Modified = Super Vee Unlimited and Super Cats Vees would allow SC or Turbos Cats N/A
Pro Stock = 2 Classes ( SCL & Super Vee) 525 Spec Engine
Stock = X-Cat or Cat Outboard

What ye say to that!!!!!


You forgot "E" 105 mph, 1100cu in gas, 2200 cu in diesel, cat hull only......

[Ratickle]

I've raced several full seasons in several different classes including 03-04 fully in P class. No I dont have the length of service to this sport that you do, but I do have several national, world, and kilos on my resume just as you. I'm not exactly a newbie to this sport. In 04 we were one race from clinching the national title and went up to Reggieville, broke out, and was bumped up to the class that had a 38 Scarab with twin 750's and a 42 Fountain with twin diesels. I love Ole Betsy, but come on, nonetheless the boat was parked for that final race.

Side note, no matter how glorified my resume is, my resume and 5 bucks will get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks. In order to have that kind of resume you would have had to race complete seasons is my point

Sorry, I still do not understand why you were bumped up. Are you saying any boat that breaks out is automatically bumped up in SBI?

[MikeyFIN]

I'm not worried. We have a good thing. Not everyone is going to embrace it, and that is OK.

As a long time fan of the sport, I would like to see the big boats get their stuff together to further the sport. I am involved in Grand-Am Rolex and Koni
road racing and I know what a pro series can be....I just don't know if it is possible in offshore.


I´d say no as this is more of a Hobby sport still but eventually we´ll get there.

Offshore would need the Racing stars not just the Celebs.

Over in Europe in P1 they are IMO getting close to that but not yet.
Has a lot of to do with the fact that theres too wealthy and too old guys racing boats to be considered professional sportsmen. And that has a lot to do with the names in Class1 for example.
Lets just deal with it accordingly and let us not reach for the moon.
The product Offshore Racing sells In my Eyes but it needs to be proposed right to get the corporate guys to understand this sport and how there´s advertising value in it.

[F1-00 Racing]

Sean add 1 more class to that mix SVL does need a home of their own especially if they get their 8-10 back as Bruce talks( I hope hes right)

[MikeyFIN]

i guess the idea is tha canopied boats can run harder into the turns.

Only If it has 2 "hulls":blush5:....

[Ratickle]

My proposal. Go race a full a full season, get to know your competitors and make changes as a group in the class you participate in.


I agree as to rules changes. Only can be changed by participants who ran 75% of the races that season, and needs 75% of those voting to make the change. That way no major players have an obsolete boat all of a sudden.

And no changes after February unless 100% vote for the change.

But don't count out input from those who have raced, used to race, or only race local events. You also need to grow those categories and get the disenfranchised ex-racers back in.

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

Trent our resumes are not the point. Titles mean next to nothing now since there are so many undisputed titles being awarded. I did not mean to challenge your history.

My point is to everyone. Before you recommend changes:

Go race a full a full season, get to know your competitors and make changes as a group in the class you participate in.

[Ratickle]

Sean add 1 more class to that mix SVL does need a home of their own especially if they get their 8-10 back as Bruce talks( I hope hes right)

SVL is the canopy single with a couple of tweaks to your formula.

[Dunbar 104]

Trent ..... Everything your wanting sounds to me like a SVL. Sell your 2 boats, and buy one. The rules are stable, heads up racing, 10 year old boats are still winning, there affordable. You know that. its pretty hard to pick a part the SVL class.

[MikeyFIN]

My point is to everyone. Before you recommend changes:

Go race a full a full season, get to know your competitors and make changes as a group in the class you participate in.

That´s my point also Jim.

Let´s sit down talk get to know each other and take consideration of different views and together come up with something.
It´s not the issue to get anyone to get their boat to be a winner on paper.
And I´m sure no one here really tries that either.
It´s just sometimes we all get misread.

now I gotta go and watch MotoGP time Trials and do a workout.l

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

SVL is the canopy single with a couple of tweaks to your formula.

How many single canopies raced this year outside SVL? One or maybe two.

What can't people just conform and participate in an existing class. SVL has boats and works. OPA SV's, Class 4, class 5 and 6 have boats and it works.

[Ratickle]

How many single canopies raced this year outside SVL? One or maybe two.

What can't people just conform and participate in an existing class. SVL has boats and works. OPA SV's, Class 4, class 5 and 6 have boats and it works.

And OPA SV is almost identical to SVL except twins.

[Ratickle]

How many single canopies raced this year outside SVL? One or maybe two.



I don't know of any.....

[F1-00 Racing]

National Guard and Deans Bat boat are the only two I can think of. Deans is a different breed than Rendal's so I dont feel that you could include those

[MikeyFIN]

Actually Deans boat is a Reindl... or what did you mean?

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

National Guard and Deans Bat boat are the only two I can think of. Deans is a different breed than Rendal's so I dont feel that you could include those

So no sense adjusting SVL for 2 boats that may not be interested anyway.

SVL teams together make the most cohesive group I have ever participated with.

[phragle]

I look at the racing scene from a slightly different prospective, as right now I work at the races as opposed to racing (though I have had a few discussions with a couple people about starting to race, probably in '11). I think the first thing you need to do is step back, away from your class and your boat and look at the entire picture.
1. you need to come to a common picture of what you want racing to be. Untill you have an orginized picture or goal, you will never achieve it.
2. Figure out what it will take to achieve the goal.
3. figure out what stands in the way.

only then can you start talking solutions.

It's like going to the doctors and saying "I don't feel good" The doctor does no assessment, just hands you some pills... that doesn't work..so you take some different pills...still doesnt work, you get some surgery...then more surgery.. tons of fixes that only make you sicker without ever figuring out why you felt sick in the first place.

So say everybody wants racing to have lots of boats racing creating excitment which draws large crowds, media exposure and sponsor dollars...

To achieve that, you need a healthy boat count of big fast boats racing hard.

the problems: very limited boat count at the top premiere level, 2~3 boats spread over a 5~10 mile course is not exciting.

solution possibilties: first you have to "grow" people with the knowledge,skills and desire to race at that level... to do this you need a "ladder" "p" class. you need an affordable and fair way for new people to start racing in inexpensive manner, but on top of that, you need INCENTIVE. you need a way to make climbing the ladder attractive or people will stay at a lower level indefinitly. This has advantages and drawbacks. to move up you will need a bigger fast boat, and you will no longer be the dominate force in your class. But if you stay at a lower level when you have mastered it, you discourage new racers. "Joe offshore wins every race..no one can beat him unless he breaks...coming in 4th constantly sucks" If there is a continual upwards turnover, there will be competitive boats available to the lower levels as people move up. Turbine cat doesn't have to be the top..there can be several "top levels" smitties V class for example, once you make it there, you have grown past the GPS equalizer stage to an upper level of skill and equipment. YOU WILL NEVER have a bunch of fast boats unless you start will a bunch of slow boats that provide an area of entry into the sport. Just as you will never have college graduates if you let people stay in 3rd grade forever, because they get straight a's without significant effort.

This isn't ment to be a blueprint or even a suggestion, just an example

[MikeyFIN]

SVL teams together make the most cohesive group I have ever participated with.

That´s the key to a good class!

[Sean Stinson]

Sean add 1 more class to that mix SVL does need a home of their own especially if they get their 8-10 back as Bruce talks( I hope hes right)

You're right sorry SVL guys I just overlooked you my bad!!!!

[glassdave]

Actually Deans boat is a Reindl... or what did you mean?

no Deans boat was actually built by McManus or Armada. Not sure but i know it was not Reindl.

[Ratickle]

National Guard and Deans Bat boat are the only two I can think of. Deans is a different breed than Rendal's so I dont feel that you could include those


Actually Deans boat is a Reindl... or what did you mean?


So no sense adjusting SVL for 2 boats that may not be interested anyway.

SVL teams together make the most cohesive group I have ever participated with.


no Deans boat was actually built by McManus or Armada. Not sure but i know it was not Reindl.

I forgot about the National Guard boat.

An Armada I believe, not positive. But, the Batboats are illegal for SVL because of the ruling the wings were a lifting device like the tunnel on a cat, and they are only 24 feet long. Otherwise, the 28 Batboats would be legal and the class would be ruined much like the other classes with new technology have been. So it is a non-issue. The SVL guys made an exception to allow a couple of us to run with them in St Clair. I thank them for it. I'd love to take a stab again, different issue though.

The main reason they consider Dean's differently, it has no Volvo duo-prop but a Bravo and tabs. Faster, doesn't accelerate quite as fast as a duo, but can run in P5 where all the others run P6.

[Ratickle]

My opinion on SVL. The only thing they could consider to improve the class for more boats. Maybe allow open boats that fit all the rest of the current rules. That's about it. I'd like to see the boats go 100, but with the sealed 525, don't see that happening.

[sbracing]

My opinion on SVL. The only thing they could consider to improve the class for more boats. Maybe allow open boats that fit all the rest of the current rules. That's about it. I'd like to see the boats go 100, but with the sealed 525, don't see that happening.

100 in a 30 foot open boat??

[Ratickle]

100 in a 30 foot open boat??

Yep, I've crashed at over that skiing and survived. And there are currently classes going over that with open cockpits. Didn't say it would ever happen, but that's just my opinion. Not everyone agrees I'm smart...... (sound like DD????)

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

My opinion on SVL. The only thing they could consider to improve the class for more boats. Maybe allow open boats that fit all the rest of the current rules. That's about it. I'd like to see the boats go 100, but with the sealed 525, don't see that happening.


Yep, I've crashed at over that skiing and survived. And there are currently classes going over that with open cockpits. Didn't say it would ever happen, but that's just my opinion. Not everyone agrees I'm smart...... (sound like DD????)

I have broken all my ribs on my left side at 60 mph in Key West too.

The boats will naturally continue to find increments of speed. There is no reason to invite more speed.

What is needed is a schedule of courses where we run in a variation of water. Sarasota for example this year was nice. We were all running low 80's. Top speed didn't matter there. It shouldn't matter in offhshore. It is supposed to be about set ups, prop choice, control, endurance and willingness to find your limitations.

As far as open boats I personally don't care. In anything bumpy they won't be able to keep up. In smooth I don't think anyone will appreciate how close we are willing to run to each other.

[DAREDEVIL]

Yep, I've crashed at over that skiing and survived. And there are currently classes going over that with open cockpits. Didn't say it would ever happen, but that's just my opinion. Not everyone agrees I'm smart...... (sound like DD????)

I know a 29 Phantom ,,tha runs 96 + mph,,,U DON'T WHANT TAH IN A RACE !!!!!!!!!!! TRUSST ME.

THIS SOUNDS LIKE DD !!!!!!

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

I didn't think I could get hurt racing a 65 mph boat. I ran it like I was indestructible, with complete disregard for well being.....big mistake.

I am happy I survived my F2 days.

[imco offshore]

Are these proposals regarding P class boats or the rest of the fleet? I don't think any wholesale changes are needed in the P class structure, whether it is OPA or SBI's model. The changes needed regard the " show " classes. These are the classes that need the rework. These are the classes that would be the sponsor attracting, televised, promoted classes. If we are concerned about he sport moving forward, these are the classes that need to be fixed. Quit nitpicking the sportsman classes. They work.

that is what i,v been saying for a while thank you

[imco offshore]

I know a 29 Phantom ,,tha runs 96 + mph,,,U DON'T WHANT TAH IN A RACE !!!!!!!!!!! TRUSST ME.

THIS SOUNDS LIKE DD !!!!!!

scott i call bull s it name it or go get it i,ll be at sarasota monday morn 11 am i,m calling your bluff in front of all these people....now man up ,,, o yea tell me he has a sealed 525, or does he have a 650 hp like you ,,,, in that case i,ll put 1000 dollars and race him from sarasota to the sky way and back OUTSIDE ,, now come back with some more bull sh1t !

[Ratickle]

scott i call bull s it name it or go get it i,ll be at sarasota monday morn 11 am i,m calling your bluff in front of all these people....now man up ,,, o yea tell me he has a sealed 525, or does he have a 650 hp like you ,,,, in that case i,ll put 1000 dollars and race him from sarasota to the sky way and back OUTSIDE ,, now come back with some more bull sh1t !

Let me know when the race is. I'll get the spectators, judges, and maybe someone from Jersey, originally or still there, to handle the action......:sifone:

[SVL66]

I dont care if hes got 1000 HP. He aint gonna win a ocean race against a canopy

[imco offshore]

i think he is talking about guy acosta,s boat but then he would be in for a suprise lol when he talks it,s like throwing -up and stuff comes out ,,,

[Sean H]

i think he is talking about guy acosta,s boat but then he would be in for a suprise lol when he talks it,s like throwing -up and stuff comes out ,,,

guys (old boat now) is an extreme, canopy and is in trinidad now.

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

i think he is talking about guy acosta,s boat but then he would be in for a suprise lol when he talks it,s like throwing -up and stuff comes out ,,,

Relax ,,,, good buddy. Try not to get all wound up.

[Ratickle]

I dont care if hes got 1000 HP. He aint gonna win a ocean race against a canopy

Why do you say that?

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

You can't run the boat hard and well if you are trying to hang on.

[Ratickle]

You can't run the boat hard and well if you are trying to hang on.

I thought you drove with your arm over the side anyway.....:sifone:

[imco offshore]

Relax ,,,, good buddy. Try not to get all wound up.

i know EASY EASY,,,,, that comment just came out of nowhere, ****3d me off i,v been good for some time now!

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

I thought you drove with your arm over the side anyway.....:sifone:

Bruce wasn't talking about me. You just can't run as fast if you are not restrained.

[Ratickle]

Bruce wasn't talking about me. You just can't run as fast if you are not restrained.

I see, just the mere mortals?????:sifone:

[imco offshore]

I thought you drove with your arm over the side anyway.....:sifone:

MY MAN IS THE KING, he can drive anyway he wants in my boat, as long as he is looking in the mirror ,,, i know were OOOO,,TAAA ???:driving:

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

Lol ..

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

MY MAN IS THE KING, he can drive anyway he wants in my boat, as long as he is looking in the mirror ,,, i know were OOOO,,TAAA ???:driving:

We need to record our intercom next season.. I think you must forget how vocal you get.:boxing_smiley:

[Ratickle]

We need to record our intercom next season.. I think you must forget how vocal you get.:boxing_smiley:

We're sending it back to race control so it can go on the PA system for everyone.....:sifone:

[imco offshore]

SORRY i know i,v been told more than once shut up already

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

You will need a delay to add the beeps where necessary:cuss:


:biggrinjester:

[Ratickle]

DId you guys ever finish finding all the possibly legal SVL's out there?

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

SORRY i know i,v been told more than once shut up already

Not by me:USA:

[Ratickle]

SORRY i know i,v been told more than once shut up already


You will need a delay to add the beeps where necessary:cuss:


:biggrinjester:


Not by me:USA:

Probably Angie more than anyone.....

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

DId you guys ever finish finding all the possibly legal SVL's out there?

:party::party:

[imco offshore]

yea we have a good list i,m trying to get e-mails from randy to start a bulk mail out,, , and after talking to most everyone is on the same page , for next year..

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

Easy

[imco offshore]

angie don.t say much but she is still very proud of what we did with the boat this year,

[Ratickle]

yea we have a good list i,m trying to get e-mails from randy to start a bulk mail out,, , and after talking to most everyone is on the same page , for next year..

Sweet.....

[Ratickle]

Easy


angie don.t say much but she is still very proud of what we did with the boat this year,

Very nice lady. Tell her hello from us both.....:seeya:

[SVL66]

Current legal Vee Lites
1 Imco Phantom
2 Typhoon Xtreme
3 Boat Floater Phantom
4 Progressive/Simply Awesome Phantom
5 Pirate Phantom
6 Pig Iron Extreme
7 LaveyCraft ??
8 Lil Hardrock Activator ??
9 Wildcard Phantom
10 Wildride Extreme
11 Xtreme Vortec Extreme (Vortec)
12 Hometown/Fluid Sealing Products Phantom (Vortec)
13 Octane Phantom

Avail Vee Lites
14 Xtreme/InMocean Phantom
15 New Phantom
16 Way2Krazy Phantom
17 Bad Boys 32

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

Is Hometown the same as Fluid Sealing?

[SVL66]

Is Hometown the same as Fluid Sealing?

yes

[Dunbar 104]

Talked with Brad today. Working hard to get ready for Key West, and all in for SVL next year. He has some good ideas. Also a SVL might be coming out of retirement. A Pro Am team from Loto race is interested in buying a boat. maybe another husband, wife team. He is a drag boat guy so they will catch on quick.

[DAREDEVIL]

scott i call bull s it name it or go get it i,ll be at sarasota monday morn 11 am i,m calling your bluff in front of all these people....now man up ,,, o yea tell me he has a sealed 525, or does he have a 650 hp like you ,,,, in that case i,ll put 1000 dollars and race him from sarasota to the sky way and back OUTSIDE ,, now come back with some more bull sh1t !

Ask Will,,,its the guy from the Kennel Club !!!!

he has about 700+ HP on an IMCO SC and the GPS was at 96.?? MPH in the bay at 1 foot chop.

Not kidding u !!!!

I think he can't race it at that speed,,,but it runs !!!!

[Dunbar 104]

Easy

Funny the same is said in our boat

easy.....Easy..... EASY..........Good Corner

[DAREDEVIL]

Current legal Vee Lites
1 Imco Phantom
2 Typhoon Xtreme
3 Boat Floater Phantom
4 Progressive/Simply Awesome Phantom
5 Pirate Phantom
6 Pig Iron Extreme
7 LaveyCraft ??
8 Lil Hardrock Activator ??
9 Wildcard Phantom
10 Wildride Extreme
11 Xtreme Vortec Extreme (Vortec)
12 Hometown/Fluid Sealing Products Phantom (Vortec)
13 Octane Phantom

Avail Vee Lites
14 Xtreme/InMocean Phantom
15 GUY Costa's Extreme
16 New Phantom
17 Way2Krazy Phantom
18 Bad Boys 32

The Extreme from " GUY COSTA " has a 750 HP and a #5 drive....
Way 2 Crazy i think has a #5
I think the Bad Boys 32 is an open cockpit ????

[SVL66]

The Extreme from " GUY COSTA " has a 750 HP and a #5 drive....
Way 2 Crazy i think has a #5
I think the Bad Boys 32 is an open cockpit ????

Way2Krazy Has a Bravo. Its been changed and ready for Vee Lite
Bad Boys is a Canopied boat, brand new ready to be rigged.

[Dunbar 104]

Could add Stans 32 activator project?

[SVL66]

Could add Stans 32 activator project?

possible, but I doubt it

[Sean H]

guy's boat has been sold to a new owner in trinidad.

[SVL66]

guy's boat has been sold to a new owner in trinidad.

Scratch one off the list

[DAREDEVIL]

Way2Krazy Has a Bravo. Its been changed and ready for Vee Lite
Guy's Boat is available will have to be converted
Bad Boys is a Canopied boat, brand new ready to be rigged.

you dont know it all..do your homework

Thanks,,,i did not know your right...thats why i was asking .

[SVL66]

Thanks,,,i did not know your right...thats why i was asking .

but its Guy Costa,,,not Bob . LOL

Noted

[DAREDEVIL]

I know a 29 Phantom ,,tha runs 96 + mph,,,U DON'T WHANT TAH IN A RACE !!!!!!!!!!! TRUSST ME.

THIS SOUNDS LIKE DD !!!!!!

George,,,,read it again,,,i never said he will race or even can do so in a race !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

George,,,,read it again,,,i never said he will race or even can do so in a race !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Scott you have a way about you that gets some people all worked up.:willy_nilly:

BTW is it Scott or Scotti?

[DAREDEVIL]

Scott you have a way about you that gets some people all worked up.:willy_nilly:

BTW is it Scott or Scotti?

Its either Scott or Scotty !!!!!!!!

OR THE KING !!!!!!!:rofl::biggrinjester::kiss:

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

Talked with Brad today. Working hard to get ready for Key West, and all in for SVL next year. He has some good ideas. Also a SVL might be coming out of retirement. A Pro Am team from Loto race is interested in buying a boat. maybe another husband, wife team. He is a drag boat guy so they will catch on quick.

Great work Mark. Our mid West recruiter :sifone:

From Tahoe to Tennessee, Jersey to Georgia and south to Florida SLV's are coming together..:sifone:

[DAREDEVIL]

Great work Mark. Our mid West recruiter :sifone:

From Tahoe to Tennessee, Jersey to Georgia and south to Florida SLV's are coming together..:sifone:

SLV's ????? ........ gotta be a new one !!!!!:rofl:

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

Scotty, The K word isn't going to happen.

[DAREDEVIL]

Scotty, The K word isn't going to happen.

Ok,,,i take your magisty.

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

You are a dreamer

[DAREDEVIL]

You are a dreamer

I know,,thats what i love about life !!!!!!!:sifone:

[Ratickle]

Scotty, The K word isn't going to happen.

You mean Krazy :sifone:

[DAREDEVIL]

You mean Krazy :sifone:

mmmmmhhhhh,,, we had that before,,,,NO I AM NOT !!!!!:sifone::)

[Ratickle]

mmmmmhhhhh,,, we had that before,,,,NO I AM NOT !!!!!:sifone::)

I know. I read your sig line.....:sifone:


So they are all Extremes or Phantoms except for one Bad Boys (a 32), one Laveycraft, and one Activator?

And are there any other boats legal?

[imco offshore]

Ask Will,,,its the guy from the Kennel Club !!!!

he has about 700+ HP on an IMCO SC and the GPS was at 96.?? MPH in the bay at 1 foot chop.

Not kidding u !!!!

I think he can't race it at that speed,,,but it runs !!!!

yea thats the guy i,m meeting monday morning ,? he wants to try some of my propellers, thats too funny

[DAREDEVIL]

yea thats the guy i,m meeting monday morning ,? he wants to try some of my propellers, thats too funny

Yea,,,,CHRIS,,cool then u can race him right there. LOL:sifone:

[imco offshore]

I know. I read your sig line.....:sifone:


So they are all Extremes or Phantoms except for one Bad Boys (a 32), one Laveycraft, and one Activator?

And are there any other boats legal?

paul any boat manufactuer that has a 27 --32 canopy molded boat ,, no cut downs or add ons (fountain 36 cut down NO) or 27--32 you can add a canopy to (laveycraft) ect,,, so anybody can put a canopy on and come ,:USA:

[DAREDEVIL]

paul any boat manufactuer that has a 27 --32 canopy molded boat ,, no cut downs or add ons (fountain 36 cut down NO) or 27--32 you can add a canopy to (laveycraft) ect,,, so anybody can put a canopy on and come ,:USA:

Wasn't the rules ,,,and i really don't know ,,,under 30 feet for SVL ????

[imco offshore]

Yea,,,,CHRIS,,cool then u can race him right there. LOL:sifone:

yea thats the way i figure it , david and goliath 525 vs 700 monday night report ?????? man i can hear it now ...what the ,,,,,,, how the,,,,, o my god were in a world of sh!+:willy_nilly:

[DAREDEVIL]

yea thats the way i figure it , david and goliath 525 vs 700 monday night report ?????? man i can hear it now ...what the ,,,,,,, how the,,,,, o my god were in a world of sh!+:willy_nilly:

:rofl::sifone::rofl::sifone::rofl:


Hey,,,i be there. u said 11 am ??

[Ratickle]

paul any boat manufactuer that has a 27 --32 canopy molded boat ,, no cut downs or add ons (fountain 36 cut down NO) or 27--32 you can add a canopy to (laveycraft) ect,,, so anybody can put a canopy on and come ,:USA:

So a 29 Fountain with a canopy added is okay? Or are you saying the manufacturer must have a canopy version available, but you can add a canopy to a non-canopy one they had previously built?

[Ratickle]

yea thats the way i figure it , david and goliath 525 vs 700 monday night report ?????? man i can hear it now ...what the ,,,,,,, how the,,,,, o my god were in a world of sh!+:willy_nilly:

Wonder what Martin and Charlie are doing.....:sifone:


We could have live play by play......

[imco offshore]

the 29 is legal with a canopy added

[Ratickle]

Wasn't the rules ,,,and i really don't know ,,,under 30 feet for SVL ????

OSS Vee Light VL 26’-32’ Inboard Single V

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

the 29 is legal with a canopy added

As long as it is not cut down?

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

That leads me to a question. How do you measure length? Is it the over all including the platform? Or is it like old APBA where you measure the top of the transom to the tip of the bow? Does the platform have to remain?

[Ratickle]

That leads me to a question. How do you measure length? Is it the over all including the platform? Or is it like old APBA where you measure the top of the transom to the tip of the bow?

With, or without, the beak????:sifone:

[Ratickle]

Got it.


20. Hull and Deck Measurement - All race boats shall be measured from the top of the bow to the top of the transom on the centerline of the hull with the keel level to the ground. Swim platforms, rubrails and any parts attached to the transom are not to be included in the measurement.

21. Hull Extensions – No extensions to meet minimum length.

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

To me no cut down means remove nothing below the rail. Length is a different story.

Adding canopies comes dangerously close to One Offs. The Class Killer.

[Ratickle]

To me no cut down means remove nothing below the rail. Length is a different story.

Adding canopies comes dangerously close to One Offs. The Class Killer.

I can't even find anything in the rules that requires a canopy so far. But, I'm still reading....:)

[Sean H]

I can't even find anything in the rules that requires a canopy so far. But, I'm still reading....:)

In OSS, it is rule 9 in the general requirements for all pro classes.

[Ratickle]

In OSS, it is rule 9 in the general requirements for all pro classes.

Thanks

9. Canopies – All boats, except Vee and PRO AM boats, competing in OSS events must be equipped with canopy safety systems, including canopy hatches (lids) fitted with positive open and positive close mechanisms, five point restraint harness systems and on-board air systems.

[F1-00 Racing]

So a 29 Fountain with a canopy added is okay? Or are you saying the manufacturer must have a canopy version available, but you can add a canopy to a non-canopy one they had previously built?

That would be a tricky one, with the fact that its a stand up, the cg would be a complete mess unless you were to cut it down(it would then be a 25-26 lol), to many factors and too much expense, it would be cheaper to buy a Phantom/Extreme and with all due respect to Fountain as I love the product line, you would be in a proven boat.

[imco offshore]

That would be a tricky one, with the fact that its a stand up, the cg would be a complete mess unless you were to cut it down(it would then be a 25-26 lol), to many factors and too much expense, it would be cheaper to buy a Phantom/Extreme and with all due respect to Fountain as I love the product line, you would be in a proven boat.

exac,,,,eggzx,,,,,excax,,,,,,your right

[MikeyFIN]

100 in a 30 foot open boat??

Offtopic.

The current class 3C U.I.M European and World Champion is that with a Twister Marine 24 foot Cat...EASY...
and all the others in the class...

http://kohoracing.fi/gallery/forby09/IMG_1763.JPG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hk6PG2NsTIs

[MikeyFIN]

We're sending it back to race control so it can go on the PA system for everyone.....:sifone:


that´s how the do it on TV in Nascar and Formula 1... so lets go for it...:sifone:

[Dunbar 104]

Don't the boats also have to be approved first also

I am not sure on the cut down part?

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

Mark, I liked Sarasota kind of water the best. What do you think?

[Dunbar 104]

Mark, I liked Sarasota kind of water the best. What do you think?

Sarasota water was great. I thought the course was to short needed maybe 1 or 2 more miles.

Orange Beach is great

Biloxi is great

St Clair

Those are my top 4

Great race courses and the People are into the racing

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

Yep, Sunny Isles too.

And yes a like longer too.

[Dunbar 104]

I liked sunny isles racing, and fun but no one knew we were there.

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

That was your First Ocean race wasn't it? It was my first SVL race.

I really like that site. The marina at the inlet is probably complete now. Last year the race boats tied up there and staged before the race.

[Dunbar 104]

Yes also had 8 boats in the class that day. finished 3rd we were proud of that.

[XtremeRacing]

You guys would like Michiagan City and MoreHead City also to great sites with a huge fan base.

[1waterboy1]

You guys would like Michiagan City and MoreHead City also to great sites with a huge fan base.

Alot of fans;not enough boats.

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

You guys would like Michiagan City and MoreHead City also to great sites with a huge fan base.

It is nice to go where fans are excited.

[Ratickle]

I spent all day in Michigan City talking to fans etc. A great site, a lot of disappointed fans. But, the fans I spoke with from Chicago and Indianapolis, even though pizzed at only one race with so few boats, still appreciated the site and view of the course.

I think it has a lot of potential. On a normal Lake Michigan day, it also will have some very good water for very interesting racing. It is close, less than 2 hour drive from Chicago and Grand Rapids, less than 3 hours from Indy, and just over 3 hours from Detroit.

I have never been to Morehead City.

[phragle]

if you don't produce a show/decent boat count, the fans won't be around long. If you go to whats supposed to be a really good resteraunt and the food sucks, you might chalk it up to a bad day...you go back the rest and the food sucks again, it doesn't matter how good everyone says it is...your not going back. The race sites know this too.....

[XtremeRacing]

yes it was pretty cool to see so many people so excited and really really into Offshore. The pits had people day and nite and race day was great it was nice to see so many fans support us.

[XtremeRacing]

I think you will be some schedule chages this coming yr.The cities that support the race and do a better job to prom. the race will win out.

[DAREDEVIL]

I am sad,,that i could not make it but i am looking forward to it next year.
I heard it was great !!!!!!!!

[shifter]

Have some more info Pat?

Dude Sweet (the skeleton in the right) Is a good example of a guy that wants to go racing.

24 ft Pantera inboard single open boat. and a 28 if I remember right. How is he going to weigh the boat dyno figures prop selection maybe 1. Show up at a race and not know what class to run?????

Easy. race in a class to 90mph. If he wants to put a 1500hp motor in it he can run all season rebuilding his stuff, but it should be his choice what class to run in and up to the class to keep the guys in check.

Tech should be safety of boat and personel. Can you swim? CPR? You know important stuff.

Boat, radio, paddle, life vests, fire extiguisher. Rope.

Racing is supposed to be fun.

The guys I see coming into the racing want to see how fast their boat is I.E. KILO

The others are tired of the spoiled attitude of the Poker Runs.

We have a Data system from Racepak that we have been runing in the p1 boats. It works well shows course speed g forces ect... We can send it out live like nascar if we want, or just go over the speed of the boats in the classes to keep the boys honest.

We also have tracking international providing video and internet updates from the race with onboard beacons so the racers familly or friends/fans that want to see where they are can go online and see them on course. Technology from BAJA racing. It will be very useful when we get back into the enduro racing like San Francisco to LA or the Rum Run "platinum style" Long Beach to Dana Point to Long Beach.

I think Kilos on Friday, race 1 on sat, race 2 on sunday plus all the other classes gn's drag boats, sst's, crackers, Jet ski's.etc... Just get everone together and race.

pat W:reddevil:

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

I think you will be some schedule chages this coming yr.The cities that support the race and do a better job to prom. the race will win out.

I thought I read all SBI sites had multi year contracts.

[Ratickle]

We have a Data system from Racepak that we have been runing in the p1 boats. It works well shows course speed g forces ect... We can send it out live like nascar if we want, or just go over the speed of the boats in the classes to keep the boys honest.

We also have tracking international providing video and internet updates from the race with onboard beacons so the racers familly or friends/fans that want to see where they are can go online and see them on course. Technology from BAJA racing.

pat W:reddevil:

Any idea what that system costs per boat? And has there been any issues with reliability?

[F1-00 Racing]

I think Kilos on Friday, race 1 on sat, race 2 on sunday plus all the other classes gn's drag boats, sst's, crackers, Jet ski's.etc... Just get everone together and race.

pat W:reddevil:


Pops in Chat had the setup of Chat Mile(kilo like) on fridays, closed course speed trials(qualifying like) on Sat and the races on Sun. It worked great and would bring a lot more interest to each race site if that or your idea was implemented. It makes more of a show for the fans and creates more marketability.

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

Pat , yes it is supposed to be fun. I like the telemetry to broadcast position and speed. We were working on that in 04. Plus add in the engine info.. Rpm and TPI and such. And mix events are also good.

[Ratickle]

I can't talk for many events. But the semi-carnival atmosphere at St Clair with practice and demonstrations Saturday (skiffs, inflatable tunnels, jet skiis). Plus a concert. Then racing Sunday, 3 races, and with the skiffs and inflatable tunnels, made a really good event.

[shifter]

Go to

trackinginternational.com

racepak.com

The rum run info should be there..on the tracking site.

I will get the pricing info.

racepak had a proposal for the tv to have the sidebar with throttle, speed, pos, revs, g meter, etc...

The race at San Diego was pretty cool we had 4 very different races and 4 set-ups.. So we were able to see what worked and what did not. We went 2 for 2 with the in-the-red cat.

pat W

[phragle]

if it lives in baja..it should live offshore.

[MikeyFIN]

I´ve used Racepak, Motec, Racetechnology and Pi and gotta say the Pi I was latest using in Formula Fords had enough features to do all you could to use in a Formula 1 car also.

I think you can do them all live if needed for TV.

And yes they will live in boat if they live even on the racetrack.

[DAREDEVIL]

Are we still talking about the same thing here ????

LETS JUST GO RACING ,even if its with a bathtub and a HP5 outboard !!!:sifone:

:driving:

[F1-00 Racing]

Pat,

That is some great info and please keep us posted as we need to make this sport more professional which in turn will make it marketable and then people might see some dollars!

[Sean H]

We have the Racelogic stuff in our boat, they offer all the telemetry options as well to broadcast live. I think most spec teams run some sort of datalogger, so stepping up the broadcast shouldn't be an issue.

[MikeyFIN]

Pat,

That is some great info and please keep us posted as we need to make this sport more professional which in turn will make it marketable and then people might see some dollars!

Regarding this feature every team can do their own channel... as they do it on the racetracks. If you want to spend the extra money....
Data acquisition is "fun" to look later on and might show some errors but in boating IMO almost totally worthless.

[DAREDEVIL]

Regarding this feature every team can do their own channel... as they do it on the racetracks. If you want to spend the extra money....
Data acquisition is "fun" to look later on and might show some errors but in boating IMO almost totally worthless.

Specialy if u don't race ...like Trent ,,because of others !!!???mmmhhhh:ack2:

[MikeyFIN]

Scotty that was one below the belt...cool it ;)

[Ratickle]

Scotty that was one below the belt...cool it ;)

Thank you. We sit here and biotch about not enough racers. Then, when we have ex racers, or potential new racers, with opinions of what it would take to come participate, we biotch anyway.

I still stick with. Current racers should listen to all part timers and ex-racers to see what others feel the shortfalls are. Then, the current racers should make decisions with the orgs to see what might improve things.

[MikeyFIN]

I´ll try to do my best to participate.
The future will show.

Scotty was tongue in cheek there.. but as always when it´s not live it gets often misinterpreted.
That´s the problem WE "Characters" don´t always get...

[F1-00 Racing]

Regarding this feature every team can do their own channel... as they do it on the racetracks. If you want to spend the extra money....
Data acquisition is "fun" to look later on and might show some errors but in boating IMO almost totally worthless.

I agree to an extent, after being apart of scoring earlier in the year, I spoke to them about making it easier. With the type of systems Pat and Sean are talking about it would be a great benefit to each organizations scoring dept as well as if and when tv happens it would add a lot to the coverage. Plus the benefit it adds to the team as when I am preparing for a race I still study the on-board footage over my career to make sure I dont make the same mistake twice. The information might be useless to some, but I would rather have too much to go thru than no information at all. Back in my Nascar days, we would have to study the top view footage of a pit stop 2 hours a day, all of that just to make a 14 second pit stop. But then again I was making 34 a year plus all expenses just to change the rear tires on a car quickly, my crew chief in Offshore makes nothing. Actually most of the time he provides the beverages in our pit stall:biggrinjester:

[rchevelle71]

my crew chief in Offshore makes nothing. Actually most of the time he provides the beverages in our pit stall:biggrinjester:

When I can sneak the cooler into the pits:sifone:

[Ratickle]

.. but as always when it´s not live it gets often misinterpreted.
That´s the problem WE "Characters" don´t always get...

Yep, sometimes jokes funny at a bar drinking with your pals come out all wrong on the net.....

[DAREDEVIL]

Yep, sometimes jokes funny at a bar drinking with your pals come out all wrong on the net.....

I need to bust his B@ll$ so he shows up to race !!!!!!!:sifone:

[Ratickle]

I need to bust his B@ll$ so he shows up to race !!!!!!!:sifone:

The worse one's, when the smilie's are forgotton....


Like this, "Daredevil can't throttle a raceboat for crap....."



Vs, "Daredevil can't throttle a race boat for crap...:sifone: :rofl: :sifone:"


By the way, can you??????:sifone: :rofl: :sifone:

[Ratickle]

.....my crew chief in Offshore makes nothing. Actually most of the time he provides the beverages in our pit stall:biggrinjester:

After the race I hope.......:sifone:

[DAREDEVIL]

The worse one's, when the smilie's are forgotton....


Like this, "Daredevil can't throttle a raceboat for crap....."



Vs, "Daredevil can't throttle a race boat for crap...:sifone: :rofl: :sifone:"


By the way, can you??????:sifone: :rofl: :sifone:


See, i really would not care because i know better,,,only the people that are not self convident get upset about stuff.

He plames me for not racing and could not tell me why ,yet ???

So ,,,he needs to get his act together,,not just talk all the time and cry like a baby.

Lets say ,,,we would get a race with all his rules and he would not win,,,he would try to change it again !!!:confused:

All this talk is intresting and real good ideas,,but it will not happen soon.

Kw is 3 weeks away ,so thats what we should be focused on.

JUST GO RACING AND HAVE FUN !!!!!!:USA:

[Ratickle]

See, i really would not care because i know better,,,only the people that are not self convident get upset about stuff.

He plames me for not racing and could not tell me why ,yet ???

So ,,,he needs to get his act together,,not just talk all the time and cry like a baby.

Lets say ,,,we would get a race with all his rules and he would not win,,,he would try to change it again !!!:confused:

All this talk is intresting and real good ideas,,but it will not happen soon.

Kw is 3 weeks away ,so thats what we should be focused on.

JUST GO RACING AND HAVE FUN !!!!!!:USA:

I disagree. I think all this discussion is good, so when everyone is in Key West and talking over drinks, the high points can be discussed face to face.

ANd you didn't answer the question????

[DAREDEVIL]

I disagree. I think all this discussion is good, so when everyone is in Key West and talking over drinks, the high points can be discussed face to face.

But we as racers are morelikley to not do these changes anyways.

Thats why the chief inspector of SBI ,,,only for SBI rules,,should be present and that was what the other thread was about ,,to really get things changed so even he can race with out bichn.

We can discuss this all day long ,weeks even month,,,but nothing is going to happen even with great ideas unless we have money or the org. agree's !

Other then that ,,,nice chat.:sifone:

[DAREDEVIL]

Again,,everybody is talking about unifying,,racing each other ,,,make it big for the fans ,,,,,,,,,and on the other hand 30% try to find excuses for not showing up to a race ????

Don't get it.

JUST GO RACE !!!!!!! and the things will eventually fall in place.

Talk does not make a diffrents only action !!!!:USA:

[Ratickle]

Again,,everybody is talking about unifying,,racing each other ,,,make it big for the fans ,,,,,,,,,and on the other hand 30% try to find excuses for not showing up to a race ????

Don't get it.

JUST GO RACE !!!!!!! and the things will eventually fall in place.

Talk does not make a diffrents only action !!!!:USA:

You may call it an excuse, but if I were he I'd feel the same way. In OPA he'd be racing. In SBI, he can't be competitive with what happened to his class change. Doesn't that seem like an issue to you? SBI has the lowest P class counts of any org. That's why I thought your thread about SBI discussion in Key West was a great idea.

[DAREDEVIL]

You may call it an excuse, but if I were he I'd feel the same way. In OPA he'd be racing. In SBI, he can't be competitive with what happened to his class change. Doesn't that seem like an issue to you? SBI has the lowest P class counts of any org. That's why I thought your thread about SBI discussion in Key West was a great idea.

And here we are again on the boat count issue. TOO funny.

He raced SBI,, he is faster then my boat ,,he braggs about HOW FAST IT IS and then wonders if they won't let him run in P5 ????

Also if we get the rules changed like most of the Racers whant,,,,80-90-110 MPH we have more boats in each class,,,better and more fair racing and a place for even him ( 80 MPH ) against the P5 boats. 26,28,30 foot single engines !!:confused:

Is it expensive to race ,,,hell yes,,nobody ever said its a cheap sport.
Randy Typhoon posted on the other thread what it cost him to race,,,i did not spend that much in SBI last year or this year. !!!!!!

Everybody plames it on either fees or travel cost,,,,i plame it on me !!!

Whats wrong with that picture ?????

IN OPA HE'D BE RACING,,,,,,,mmmmmhhhhhh,,, well WHY ISN'T HE ???? Nobody sais he needs to race in SBI ,,,,its his choice !!!!

[Ratickle]

IN OPA HE'D BE RACING,,,,,,,mmmmmhhhhhh,,, well WHY ISN'T HE ???? Nobody sais he needs to race in SBI ,,,,its his choice !!!!

Travel. The same reason if I raced a full season, I'd have only hit two SBI races max. You're currently spoiled because you're not working, just like me. So, we have time to travel. But, when I'm working, I cannot miss three weekdays for a weekend of racing 7 or 8 times a season.

[DAREDEVIL]

Travel. The same reason if I raced a full season, I'd have only hit two SBI races max. You're currently spoiled because you're not working, just like me. So, we have time to travel. But, when I'm working, I cannot miss three weekdays for a weekend of racing 7 or 8 times a season.

Trent is working ??????? ok 2-3 days a week !!! thats what he told me !!!!

So that can't be it !!!!!!!

I work too,,,just not as an employe. :sifone:

[DAREDEVIL]

But again,,this is not about Trent ,me or any other racer in Person.

All i say is bring the boats out of the barn and go have fun and then discuss the rules or any thing else.

CHANGES ARE NOT DONE WITHOUT ACTION !!!!!!:USA:

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

Kw is 3 weeks away ,so thats what we should be focused on.

JUST GO RACING AND HAVE FUN !!!!!!:USA:


I don't get all this talk and ball busting.

Focus on finishing the race and do it. Then and only then maybe do some ball busting.

Its a race first then a party second. If the partying is more important leave the boat home.

[Ratickle]

All i say is bring the boats out of the barn and go have fun and then discuss the rules or any thing else.



And I'm saying there were reasons the boats went into the barns. Try to figure out why, and work on improvements to lure them back out.

[DAREDEVIL]

I don't get all this talk and ball busting.

Focus on finishing the race and do it. Then and only then maybe do some ball busting.

Its a race first then a party second. If the partying is more important leave the boat home.

LOL,,,,if racing is only about racing ,,then we would need more then just faith.

IT IS AND WAS ALL ABOUT FUN ,,,and u know that !!!!!!!

Plus ,,like i said before Jim ,,,u watch me !!:sifone:

[DAREDEVIL]

and i'm saying there were reasons the boats went into the barns. Try to figure out why, and work on improvements to lure them back out.

easyer said then done !!!!!!

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

IT IS AND WAS ALL ABOUT FUN ,,,and u know that !!!!!!!



You have a very different view than I do.

It has always been about competition to me. No competition no fun.

[Ratickle]

The other thing I'm trying to point out, without playing any favorites whatsoever;

SBI averaged 8 "P" boats per race this season, with a low count of 4 boats total in the combined "P" classes at the Miami event.

OPA averaged 25 "P" boats per race this season, with a low count of 20 boats in the combined "P" classes at the Point Pleasant event.

Just review and disseminate what is currently working, that's all. The Florida events should be packed with P boats. Just look at the classifieds of where performance offshore boats are for sale and the locations jump out at you.

[Ratickle]

IT IS AND WAS ALL ABOUT FUN ,,,and u know that !!!!!!!



It has always been about competition to me. No competition no fun.

It takes both kinds. I had the same thing when I was racing motorcycles. To some, they had to beat the best (me:)) to have a good time, to others, they wanted to ride with the best and see how much fun they could have while doing so.

My sister is that way in Eventing. I get upset when something goes wrong and she doesn't win. She's like, I'm just here for the fun. I had a blast....

I think all sports have the same thing. Not right or wrong, just sometimes hard to understand the other point of view.

[DAREDEVIL]

The other thing I'm trying to point out, without playing any favorites whatsoever;

SBI averaged 8 "P" boats per race this season, with a low count of 4 boats total in the combined "P" classes at the Miami event.

OPA averaged 25 "P" boats per race this season, with a low count of 20 boats in the combined "P" classes at the Point Pleasant event.

Just review and disseminate what is currently working, that's all. The Florida events should be packed with P boats. Just look at the classifieds of where performance offshore boats are for sale and the locations jump out at you.

Paul,,,The way Smitty runs OPA it worx great no doubt about that ,,,,but if u have to make money like SBI as a company u can't do it that way,,,we had this discussion many many times.

Ofcorse if it would be free to race in SBI ,,they would have more boats ,,but it is what it is.

For the $ it takes me to do the OPA races i can race here at SBI so thats a wash.

Most of the P boats are up north,,not here in FL ,,,which is funny that also is one reason why.

[DAREDEVIL]

You have a very different view than I do.

It has always been about competition to me. No competition no fun.

Thats true too,,,,thats why SBI has to change something ,,no doubt,,that is the reason for the new ideas of the 3 P classes only !!!

But KW ,,is also about fun besides racing. To me and many others.:sifone:

AND I STILL WHANT TO WIN AND FINISH ONE DAY !!!!:reddevil:
I WHANT TO
I WHANT TO
I WHANT TO
I AM GOING TO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:biggrinjester:

[Wahoo 214]

Sorry to intrude on your SBI thread, but I will have to risk offending Trent again. I think you are going about "fixing SBI P Class" wrong. You need boat count and Fl has one of the largest potential race fleets in America. You should market to them just like OPA and OSS Am do. Low fees and a class for most boats. Build a fleet and then worry about how you are going to fix them all into classes. I would also match classes and speed to OPA since they have nearly all the currently racing boats. Home Depot and Lowes don't mess with their models they just grow the overall market.

[Ratickle]

Paul,,,The way Smitty runs OPA it worx great no doubt about that ,,,,but if u have to make money like SBI as a company u can't do it that way,,,we had this discussion many many times.

Ofcorse if it would be free to race in SBI ,,they would have more boats ,,but it is what it is.

For the $ it takes me to do the OPA races i can race here at SBI so thats a wash.

Most of the P boats are up north,,not here in FL ,,,which is funny that also is one reason why.

It is not "free" to race in OPA. Just a lot more reasonable for the "P" class guys because most are not full-time racers. But you still have to participate in a certain number of races to get the other half your prize money.

I'm not here to argue the Orgs or rules. I'm here to try and get everyone to pay attention to everything. And especially what works currently.

And a correction, most of the boats racing "P" classes are up north. Most of the boats capable of racing "P" classes are still down there.

[DAREDEVIL]

Sorry to intrude on your SBI thread, but I will have to risk offending Trent again. I think you are going about "fixing SBI P Class" wrong. You need boat count and Fl has one of the largest potential race fleets in America. You should market to them just like OPA and OSS Am do. Low fees and a class for most boats. Build a fleet and then worry about how you are going to fix them all into classes. I would also match classes and speed to OPA since they have nearly all the currently racing boats. Home Depot and Lowes don't mess with their models they just grow the overall market.

Dean,,as said before ,,,,,SBI did match the speeds on all classes but did not take a P6 in there.

How many boats showed up ? -1- !!!!!!

HOW MANY BOATS WHERE SCREWED WITH THE SET UP,???? all of the rest.

At the beginning of 2009 i had my boat running perfect @ 81.??? WOT and i even said ok to the 85 MPH. Just so u know.
So tried everything to meet 85,,it cost me money and alot of swet,,,did it work NO !!!!! LOL
But your input is apr. ,, no doubt again SBI needs to change something,,but it needs to work for all in SBI not just the racers.
We will see how things go.

:USA:

[DAREDEVIL]

And a correction, most of the boats racing "P" classes are up north. Most of the boats capable of racing "P" classes are still down there.[/QUOTE]

YEAH,,,BUT WITHOUT RACERS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:sifone:

[Ratickle]

YEAH,,,BUT WITHOUT RACERS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:sifone:

And that's why we're having this discussion......

[Wahoo 214]

Dean,,as said before ,,,,,SBI did match the speeds on all classes but did not take a P6 in there.

How many boats showed up ? -1- !!!!!!

HOW MANY BOATS WHERE SCREWED WITH THE SET UP,???? all of the rest.

At the beginning of 2009 i had my boat running perfect @ 81.??? WOT and i even said ok to the 85 MPH. Just so u know.
So tried everything to meet 85,,it cost me money and alot of swet,,,did it work NO !!!!! LOL
But your input is apr. ,, no doubt again SBI needs to change something,,but it needs to work for all in SBI not just the racers.
We will see how things go.

:USA:


So if you were screwed by a rule change way would you want to change them again? Make the rules, align them with the largest fleet of raceboats and don't change them. The reasons you had only one boat are simple.

1. Cost
2. Travel for out of state boats
3. Low or no purse
4. no competition to race against
5. Broken promises

Believe me I would love to race in FL during the off season, if it were cost effective (large purse) and had true competition to race.

[Wahoo 214]

And a correction, most of the boats racing "P" classes are up north. Most of the boats capable of racing "P" classes are still down there.

YEAH,,,BUT WITHOUT RACERS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:sifone:[/QUOTE]

They are racing up north, because it works for them.

[DAREDEVIL]

YEAH,,,BUT WITHOUT RACERS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:sifone:

They are racing up north, because it works for them.[/QUOTE]

Who from fl. races up north ????? With the P boats ???

Anyhow,,this is going no where again with this OPA SBI OSS BS !!!!

have a nice day.

[Ratickle]

YEAH,,,BUT WITHOUT RACERS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:sifone:


They are racing up north, because it works for them.


Who from fl. races up north ????? With the P boats ???

He's not talking about the Florida boats coming up here. He's talking about the boats available up here running races up here because there are classes, rules, and expenses that allow it too happen. And, he is suggesting that the same thing would happen in Florida with the boats available there, if a similar footprint is followed.

I happen to agree.

[Wahoo 214]

He's not talking about the Florida boats coming up here. He's talking about the boats available up here running races up here because there are classes, rules, and expenses that allow it too happen. And, he is suggesting that the same thing would happen in Florida with the boats available there, if a similar footprint is followed.

I happen to agree.

You are correct. The only FL boats racing up north in P Class that I can think of are Steady Pumping and Brett/Billy. There are tons of boat from Georgia down that would make great p class boats. You just need to make it appealing to them.

This is why I used the Lowes HD example. They don't fight each other, they grow the whole market.

[Fast Shafts]

Just a thought, I race with OPA in class 6, #606 Lock'd Up. If SBI had identicle bracket classes, I wouldn't be opposed to racing while I vacation in Florida. I'm sure there are many others from the OPA organization who would do the same. If all organizations would at least cooperate with each other, it COULD be great for everyone's boat count. When the boat count goes up, sponsors are happy!:) And if one were to "win his class", it would mean more than racing no one and "winning his class".

[Ratickle]

And some kind of a per-race fee structure, instead of the entire year's expenses.

[MikeyFIN]

I agree to an extent, after being apart of scoring earlier in the year, I spoke to them about making it easier. With the type of systems Pat and Sean are talking about it would be a great benefit to each organizations scoring dept as well as if and when tv happens it would add a lot to the coverage. Plus the benefit it adds to the team as when I am preparing for a race I still study the on-board footage over my career to make sure I dont make the same mistake twice. The information might be useless to some, but I would rather have too much to go thru than no information at all. Back in my Nascar days, we would have to study the top view footage of a pit stop 2 hours a day, all of that just to make a 14 second pit stop. But then again I was making 34 a year plus all expenses just to change the rear tires on a car quickly, my crew chief in Offshore makes nothing. Actually most of the time he provides the beverages in our pit stall:biggrinjester:

so You´re a colleague to me than...I did the same in ASA late models years ago.
And yes when you have data aquisition. film or whatever to look for you go a curve or something per every fraction.

Hmmm... 34 plus expenses... that´s not actually bad. Lets talk about Stock Cars in KW.

[MikeyFIN]

The worse one's, when the smilie's are forgotton....


Like this, "Daredevil can't throttle a raceboat for crap....."



Vs, "Daredevil can't throttle a race boat for crap...:sifone: :rofl: :sifone:"


By the way, can you??????:sifone: :rofl: :sifone:

IMO YES and he´s actually devoted to the sport 100%.

[MikeyFIN]

You have a very different view than I do.

It has always been about competition to me. No competition no fun.

Gotta agree here, When the Race is on and something is at stake It´s all about the competition.
You don´t see me smile or hear me talk when I focus. I´m used to keep my mouth guard in my mouth so the other one has to spit it out...

[Sean H]

And some kind of a per-race fee structure, instead of the entire year's expenses.

Is the entry fee in p-class sbi really keeping teams from racing? I am not a huge fan of sbi, but the p class seems reasonable. Isn't it like 600 bucks? Obviously free is always better, but if you only race 1 event in sbi or opa, aren't the fees similiar? (ie, a team that races sbi will pay about the same money to race 1 opa race as an opa team who races 1 race with sbi).

[Ratickle]

Is the entry fee in p-class sbi really keeping teams from racing? I am not a huge fan of sbi, but the p class seems reasonable. Isn't it like 600 bucks? Obviously free is always better, but if you only race 1 event in sbi or opa, aren't the fees similiar? (ie, a team that races sbi will pay about the same money to race 1 opa race as an opa team who races 1 race with sbi).

Somewhere that was discussed. I'll see if I can find it.

I think it was for a two or three race scenario where a northerner comes to Florida to race Key West, Miami, and Marathon in the North's Offseason.

[Ratickle]

IMO YES and he´s actually devoted to the sport 100%.

I keep waiting for him to answer....:sifone: How else can I smack talk him????:)

[MikeyFIN]

Travel. The same reason if I raced a full season, I'd have only hit two SBI races max. You're currently spoiled because you're not working, just like me. So, we have time to travel. But, when I'm working, I cannot miss three weekdays for a weekend of racing 7 or 8 times a season.

I can barely swing it...

Got a LOT of Flak from my employee over the fact that I was wrenching Formula Fords in the British Series last year and did FIA GT3 same time.
And 5 Weeks after we got an Agreement of my work my Bosses Aorta splits..and that was that.

Regarding SBI Funny the boatcount is down and it´s from the birthplace of Offshore.
And I´m mostly glad to run somewhere warm as it´s also a vacation for me because I gotta work so my eyes bleed for it...
It´s no fun driving a Truck over here but I got the freedom.

[MikeyFIN]

I keep waiting for him to answer....:sifone: How else can I smack talk him????:)


LOL :lurk5:

[Ratickle]

Somewhere that was discussed. I'll see if I can find it.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------


Example : P4 Class Boat (I will not include OSS "P" Class in this comparison)

The cost for me to race my first SBI event would be 1975.00
The cost for me to race my first OPA event would be 1000.00

------------------

The cost for me to race my Second SBI event would be 675.00
The cost for me to race my Second OPA event would be 0.00

------------------

The cost for me to race my Third SBI event would be 675.00
The cost for me to race my Third OPA event would be 0.00

------------------

The cost for me to race my Forth SBI event would be 675.00
The cost for me to race my Forth OPA event would be 0.00


------------------

The cost for me to race my Fifth SBI event would be 675.00
The cost for me to race my Fifth OPA event would be 0.00

------------------

The cost for me to race my Sixth SBI event would be 675.00
The cost for me to race my Sixth OPA event would be 0.00

------------------

The cost for me to race my Seventh SBI event would be 675.00
The cost for me to race my Seventh OPA event would be 0.00

------------------

The cost for me to race my Eight SBI event would be 675.00
The cost for me to race my Eight OPA event would be 0.00


Total entry fee cost on a 8 race season
SBI: $6700.00
OPA: $1000.00


OPA: No Boat minimum.. Only 3 boats show up and you get at least 3rd place $$$
1st 2000.00
2nd 1200.00
3rd 800.00
I'll say "was" the purse seeing as I have yet to crack the top 3 this year... :ack2: But the formula is pretty simple and straight foward.

SBI: (NOT MY WORDS, THIS IS A COPY PASTE JOB FROM THE RULE BOOK)
Pay out will be based on the number of boats starting the race in their class. Five
(5) boats starting in a class will receive the prize money as posted for that class,
less than five boats will be as follows:
1. Four (4) boats in a class will receive prize money from 2nd to 5th place
2. Three (3) boats in a class will receive prize money from 3rd to 5th place.
3. Two (2) boats in a class will receive prize money from 4th to 5th place.
4. One (1) boat in a class will receive prize money for 5th place.
Any class with the exception of Manufacturer Production Class (P1 – P5),
that has eight (8) or more boats starting (crossing the start line) will receive
an extra $1,000.00 (40%, 25%, 20%, 10%, 5%) added to the prize purse for that class

So you pay 675.00 To race 1 other boat and you get $100.00.. right?


Thanks!

So if You race OPA and finish 3rd at every race it would look like this.

Total Event Fee's........ $1000.00
3rd Place purse x 8 = ...$6400.00
Net profit...................+$5400.00


So if You race SBI and finish 3rd at every race it would look like this, assuming
you have the boat count to support the purse.
Total Event Fee's........ $6700.00
3rd Place purse x 8 = ...$3200.00
Net profit...................<-3500.00> Negative



Here it is....And the link

http://www.seriousoffshore.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9317&highlight=race+fees

[MikeyFIN]

I need to bust his B@ll$ so he shows up to race !!!!!!!:sifone:


"The intimidator" HAHA..:seeya:

[Sean H]

Here it is....And the link

http://www.seriousoffshore.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9317&highlight=race+fees

so its 1200 vs 1000 for 1 race?

[Ratickle]

so its 1200 vs 1000 for 1 race?

It looks like 1975 vs 1000, then 675 vs 0 second and 675 vs 0 third. But, I am not positive, that was from the other discussion. I re-read it and there seemed to be a decision that was correct.

[DAREDEVIL]

so its 1200 vs 1000 for 1 race?

For 1 race only ,,its actually the same. because SBI prorated the fees !!!!

[rchevelle71]

After the race I hope.......:sifone:

The guys in the boat dont get the keys to the cooler 'til after the race, but since I do most of my wrenchin alongside the house on my pleasure boat, the mechanic needs a few sips now and then to keep his mind straight:sifone:

[shifter]

5. What can we do to consolidate classes? There are a potential of 14 classes in our rulebook. How and what could we do to turn that into 3 or 4 classes? What about 3 or 4 classes in Cat and Vee? It’s hard for the spectator to figure out who’s in which class. With a reorganizing or consolidating classes you could have 3 to 5 boats in 3 or 4 classes. Now you have 1 or 2 boats in each class. Is it really racing when you are the only boat in your class? Not really knowing what to do or how to do it, something should change. One of the examples is to have 3 classes with breakout speeds of 85, 100 and unlimited. Another example is 80, 95, 110 and unlimited. Some of the concerns would be about a cat racing a vee. With the help of Tracking International, you could have a truly independent, cheat free, way of monitoring speeds. You could also add to the class rules that the breakout speeds be adjusted up or down depending on the event. Right now, the Performance 1 Class that we have, has the rule…Page 26, Section K. Performance Class “Performance Class 1 boats are limited 115 MPH as a top speed. This speed may be adjusted on a race-by-race basis depending upon conditions at each race site.”



This is a piece of an email on the club out here. I am going to get permission to air out the rest.....

Just to let people know that things are being worked on.

To me this seems to be a good way to get boats to come out and race.

pat W:driving:

[Ratickle]

5. What can we do to consolidate classes? There are a potential of 14 classes in our rulebook. How and what could we do to turn that into 3 or 4 classes? What about 3 or 4 classes in Cat and Vee? It’s hard for the spectator to figure out who’s in which class. With a reorganizing or consolidating classes you could have 3 to 5 boats in 3 or 4 classes. Now you have 1 or 2 boats in each class. Is it really racing when you are the only boat in your class? Not really knowing what to do or how to do it, something should change. One of the examples is to have 3 classes with breakout speeds of 85, 100 and unlimited. Another example is 80, 95, 110 and unlimited. Some of the concerns would be about a cat racing a vee. With the help of Tracking International, you could have a truly independent, cheat free, way of monitoring speeds. You could also add to the class rules that the breakout speeds be adjusted up or down depending on the event. Right now, the Performance 1 Class that we have, has the rule…Page 26, Section K. Performance Class “Performance Class 1 boats are limited 115 MPH as a top speed. This speed may be adjusted on a race-by-race basis depending upon conditions at each race site.”



This is a piece of an email on the club out here. I am going to get permission to air out the rest.....

Just to let people know that things are being worked on.

To me this seems to be a good way to get boats to come out and race.

pat W:driving:


Sorry to sound stupid Pat. Which rule book?

[2TR]

Why do I feel like this.....

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[imco offshore]

Why do I feel like this.....

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that is to funny

[DAREDEVIL]

Why do I feel like this.....

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BECAUSE ITS U !!!!!:rofl::sifone:

[shifter]

The rules for popra were based on OSS rules.

We have several p1 boats. All of them have different set-ups and the easiest way to get new people to race was to install data to keep things honest. One boat had 1500's twin blowers one had blown 525's one had turbo 1400 we had NA 650's etc... to get it to work the data did the job.

The new rules for 2010 are being discussed.

Kilo's, multiple races per weekend, internet involvement through data etc are all good ideas.

We are working on building the west coast racing back up.

What group to side with???????

pat W

[Ratickle]

The rules for popra were based on OSS rules.

We have several p1 boats. All of them have different set-ups and the easiest way to get new people to race was to install data to keep things honest. One boat had 1500's twin blowers one had blown 525's one had turbo 1400 we had NA 650's etc... to get it to work the data did the job.

The new rules for 2010 are being discussed.

Kilo's, multiple races per weekend, internet involvement through data etc are all good ideas.

We are working on building the west coast racing back up.

What group to side with???????

pat W


Love to discuss your data setup. And the P class rules from different orgs. Think we could try again and get something accomplished without death and destruction?????:sifone:

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

It is great to hear boats have adopted the P1 rule concept. I hope it continues to grow.

Best of luck to everyone involved.