Offshore racing? Offshore or beachside?

[Sean H]

Here ya go, it was an idea from the Unification thread. Which would you rather watch/participate in? More importantly, which would you PAY to see?

Assume all other factors are the same (TV, radio, internet, boat count, etc), which course style is better for the sport?

[Sean H]

Here is an example of the mixed style. You could make that long lap go out as far you like depending on the race site and conditions. I would like to see the "long" laps be close to twice what a regular lap is. That way you join back in with racers as you come off your lap.

Ignore the red line, that is the start procedure. The green line would be the long lap course. Each team can choose when they do their long laps.

[phragle]

I think both have there place and a season should include a mix of both. there also needs to be intelligent scheduling to do that. You cant have a rough offshore race that truely test ones equipment etc. and the following weekend have another race. By nature a true offshore race tears stuff up, and you need more than a couple days to go over the boat before the next race.

[Sean Stinson]

Here is an example of the mixed style. You could make that long lap go out as far you like depending on the race site and conditions. I would like to see the "long" laps be close to twice what a regular lap is. That way you join back in with racers as you come off your lap.

Ignore the red line, that is the start procedure. The green line would be the long lap course. Each team can choose when they do their long laps.

That would be way to confusing I think I am trying to get Nick to merge our polls together I am for a mixed course but as a sprint race and an endurance race at different times or days!!!!

[Sean H]

The schedule should allow time for all teams to participate ideally. With the season starting in March and ending in November, racing back to back weekends shouldn't be required. With schedules only having 6-10 races, you can race once a month roughly and still get in 9 or 10 races. Allowing travel time, repair time and setup/testing time is a must if you want full fields of boats at more race sites, but that is another thread.

[Sean Stinson]

I think that a course needs to be over a 100 miles total distance not 30 miles total distance...

[Sean H]

That would be way to confusing I think I am trying to get Nick to merge our polls together I am for a mixed course but as a sprint race and an endurance race at different times or days!!!!

Really? How hard can it be? Other race orgs do it already with no issues. The only teams that would have issues are the ones that can't count laps now. :sifone:

[Ratickle]

I think that a course needs to be over a 100 miles total distance not 30 miles total distance...

Just a comment. Today's boats are not built for that. Very few would finish a 100 mile race.

[Ratickle]

Really? How hard can it be? Other race orgs do it already with no issues. The only teams that would have issues are the ones that can't count laps now. :sifone:

Guilty......:sifone:

[MarylandMark]

Mixed but with the last lap the long one when light on fuel and a real showdown to the finish line..

[Sean H]

Just a comment. Today's boats are not built for that. Very few would finish a 100 mile race.

A good percentage of boats aren't built to finish more than 1 or 2 laps. :ack2:

[Pete B]

Sunny Isles seems to be a somewhat successful event with Friday to Bimini, then closed course racing on Sunday, but with 2 years under their belt and a great venue how many " old Time Offshore Racing teams" show. The Meat and potato's of the whole event is still the guys that do the close to beach course!

This past weekend's event first race, 6 boats out of 14 did not make a more than 2 laps!
at a National Championship race!! That ought to make for some great TV, fans will be glued to their seats Im sure.

before Offshore racing considers moving offshore they need to condense what they have. back to the other thread.

[Sean H]

Just a comment. Today's boats are not built for that. Very few would finish a 100 mile race.

Modern electronics take care of that anymore... big red number tells ya what lap you are on. :sifone:

[phragle]

Just a comment. Today's boats are not built for that. Very few would finish a 100 mile race.

It's just my humble opinion, but if you want to race 'offshore' part of that to me is building and prepping a boat that can run and race offshore. That was originally part of the challange. Some of todays "offshore' course are akin to making a TT track in a stadium and calling it a desert race. If somebodies desire is to go in an oval driving a potatoe chip, theres always hydroplanes and tunnel hulls to race. True we want races with big crowds and attention like St. claire, but you still need a couple races that test more than prop choice and not breaking out.

[Pete B]

Today's boats are not built for that.

Teagues SKATER, as well as a few others seem to hold up well!

[Sean Stinson]

Here is my thought if you want to race a tunnel boat buy one....if you want to race a bigger tunnel boat buy an F-1 tunnel boat......if you want to race a big boat on an inshore lap course buy a hydroplane.....and last but not least if you want to race offshore........HIKE YOUR SKIRT UP AND STOP WHINING!!!!!!!

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

It's just my humble opinion, but if you want to race 'offshore' part of that to me is building and prepping a boat that can run and race offshore. That was originally part of the challange. Some of todays "offshore' course are akin to making a TT track in a stadium and calling it a desert race. If somebodies desire is to go in an oval driving a potatoe chip, theres always hydroplanes and tunnel hulls to race. True we want races with big crowds and attention like St. claire, but you still need a couple races that test more than prop choice and not breaking out.

Hear Hear :cheers2:

[smokeybandit]

I'm hoping I started a conversation that gets to the heart of the matter. It seems to at least have peaked some interest.

[SVL66]

theres not enough boats on the course to make a beach front race exciting. If you send them offshore, the fans will get bored after a drink or 2 and forget there is a race goin on. The more time that lapses without some kind of close racing, the more fans become disinterested. Just my perspective

[smokeybandit]

Here is my thought if you want to race a tunnel boat buy one....if you want to race a bigger tunnel boat buy an F-1 tunnel boat......if you want to race a big boat on an inshore lap course buy a hydroplane.....and last but not least if you want to race offshore........HIKE YOUR SKIRT UP AND STOP WHINING!!!!!!!

Give 'em hell Sean!

[Sean Stinson]

theres not enough boats on the course to make a beach front race exciting. If you send them offshore, the fans will get bored after a drink or 2 and forget there is a race goin on. The more time that lapses without some kind of close racing, the more fans become disinterested. Just my perspective

ok riddle me this......Why in the days of old were there more fans, more boats, and more things to do at an event then compared to now!!!

[smokeybandit]

theres not enough boats on the course to make a beach front race exciting. If you send them offshore, the fans will get bored after a drink or 2 and forget there is a race goin on. The more time that lapses without some kind of close racing, the more fans become disinterested. Just my perspective

How excited do these people look? The boats are right in front of them and they aren't watching.

43090

[Pete B]

How excited do these people look? The boats are right in front of them and they aren't watching.

43090

I would say that "yes" they arent intrested, because they dont know what the Hell is going on! I know several people approached me and ask questions as to "WHO" was winning, and much to my amusement I couldnt give a answer, because I didnt know other than Geico in Turbine, and AMSOIL in Cat Lite, in the second race, first race Miccosukee, Fluid sealing second, Throttle up 3rd. TOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Many classes to keep up with and when reading the results finding out boats are running in 2 classes at once.

[MikeyFIN]

I voted for the Mix but Really would´ve like to have True offshore but thenagain close racing is good too.

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

ok riddle me this......Why in the days of old were there more fans, more boats, and more things to do at an event then compared to now!!!

I am still trying to figure out how the fan friendly thing is measured. I don't get it. It seems in attempt to make it fan friendly the objective has been lost.

I doubt the spectator fleet in Clearwater would have minded being a few miles off the beach for the outside leg.

[DAREDEVIL]

I voted for the Mix but Really would´ve like to have True offshore but thenagain close racing is good too.

I am with u Mika,,,to far offshore and the fans and sponsors would not get a return on theyr investment.

Mix is cool.

[DAREDEVIL]

ok riddle me this......Why in the days of old were there more fans, more boats, and more things to do at an event then compared to now!!!

Because there was more "FREE" money around. U should now that.
Now u need sponsors and they want people to see the decal !!!!!

[MikeyFIN]

I am still trying to figure out how the fan friendly thing is measured. I don't get it. It seems in attempt to make it fan friendly the objective has been lost.

I doubt the spectator fleet in Clearwater would have minded being a few miles off the beach for the outside leg.

A triangle racecourse would´ve actually worked perfect there..put a chicane somewhere too just for measure so the Fans will see some rooster and close racing the next time.

[Ratickle]

How excited do these people look? The boats are right in front of them and they aren't watching.

43090

But that's because there was no "race". What was there in side by side, or nose to tail racing????? 1 class?????

Heck, I love races and racing, and I'm usually bored by lap two. LOTO had a couple of sweet races. Last years world's had 3 total races from what I recall.

[Ratickle]

ok riddle me this......Why in the days of old were there more fans, more boats, and more things to do at an event then compared to now!!!


Because there was more "FREE" money around. U should now that.
Now u need sponsors and they want people to see the decal !!!!!

I'll make a list.....:sifone:

More "characters" who were built up on TV and in magazines, including movie stars.

More "seed" money.

TV coverage, even though there were only a few stations for people to watch.

More "run what you built" racing.

Less "one manufacturer" rules.

Crashes and the unfortunate side effects that go along with it.

Run in any water. No cancellation of races because "the water is too rough".

Less competition for fans and interest.




You can go on and on. But, remember one thing. In the late 90's, early 00's the offshore world may have been at its peak. That's the model to review and figure out how to get that back, and figure out what killed it. And it's not just one thing. It was a list of things. And there was almost as much competition for the fan, and money, then as now.....

[Pete B]

From what I can remember late 70's, long races, not too many classes the star class was OPEN Class, the 80's brought the movie stars and of course the white powder that put offshore racing on the map! along with many in Jail or 6ft under, the late 90 saw the transitition to the more close to the beach venue, (not sure but some wanted to distance themselves from the nose candy business) the late 90's and early 00's brought political
strife etc.

[DAREDEVIL]

Pete, how would u do it as a fotographer so it makes sense to u ,the racers and the fans ???

By the way ,,still waiting on the proofs. LOL

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

But that's because there was no "race". What was there in side by side, or nose to tail racing????? 1 class?????



What are talking about. In Key West The starts took the entire harbor. The boats came out stretching shore to shore. 4 or 5 starts in a row of 20 or more boats.

In 93 or 94 there were some many A boats the split the race into twins and singles. There were something like 30 of them.. Imagine 15 Twin outboard 24 Skaters and almost as many V's with twin 200's. That was just 2 of the numerous starts.

The run to the first turn was longer than a whole lap now. That was racing. When you came in the harbor completing first lap you had done something. Not some joy ride. Then you would head out for more.

You would come in the harbor again, collect your thoughts, shake off your white knuckles and head out again. As you headed out you could see how was coming in behind you.

There really is no comparison. Even the old storm courses where a challenge compared to the short courses now. Now its just a collection of short sprints. It used to be so different..

[Ratickle]

What are talking about.

I was talking about the picture referenced at Clearwater. People were bored because there was no race other than Crazy Chicken and Simmons from what I saw. Was there another?

[Pete B]

The Fans need to be able to understand the classes that are running, hence fewer classes,
When those that know about Offshore cant figure it out how the hell is a first time viewer?? the beach side race is great, because if bored you have the sun and fun.

From a photography standpoint, side by side, deck to deck racing.

and I need a e-mail address to send proofs!

[DAREDEVIL]

I was talking about the picture referenced at Clearwater. People were bored because there was no race other than Crazy Chicken and Simmons from what I saw. Was there another?

The race to the bar....maybe.

Things don't always turn out the way they should ,,,all we can do is try to make it better. BUT HOW...is the question nobody has the answer just yet.

It takes money,,,lots of it not just ideas and memories.:(

[DAREDEVIL]

The Fans need to be able to understand the classes that are running, hence fewer classes,
When those that know about Offshore cant figure it out how the hell is a first time viewer?? the beach side race is great, because if bored you have the sun and fun.

From a photography standpoint, side by side, deck to deck racing.

and I need a e-mail address to send proofs!

e-mail send !!! LOL

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

Well sorry about my disconnected rant. I must have imagine your comment coupled with OPEN class I saw in Petes comments.

[Ratickle]

Well sorry about my disconnected rant. I must have imagine your comment coupled with OPEN class I saw in Petes comments.

No problem. You can blame the drugs......:sifone:

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

Anyway.. I get frustrated by all the deck to deck fan friendly hype. Is it a race or a show? Petes perspective is as an observer. I am looking to compete. It may not be deck to deck and still be a race. On a longer course a boat length or two lead can change from leg to leg.
The race is not decided by the position your in at the first turn.

[Ratickle]

Is it a race or a show?


I think the sooner it's realized that it's both to bring in fans and money. The sooner the ressurection of Offshore will occur.


On a longer course a boat length or two lead can change from leg to leg.
The race is not decided by the position your in at the first turn.

That's a good thing. I was referring to the two or three boats in a class and after one lap, or 1/2 lap, they are a few hundred yards apart or only one boat left running.

That is why SV in OPA is a great class.

[phragle]

opa SV is good...but we need to have a pool every race...who will spin, what lap and what corner, with a progressive pot......

[DAREDEVIL]

opa SV is good...but we need to have a pool every race...who will spin, what lap and what corner, with a progressive pot......

My bet is 99% on WAHOO !!! LOL

2nd turn 3rd lap.

[phragle]

see..you have a growing class wth parity and can generate enough interest for side bets, the colorfull Dr. Spin,Louies perpetual grins... multiple racers pushin there boats to the edge and beyond etc.... the development of racing with interest...... albeit in babysteps but progress....There are a few other boats that would fit that class, i we could get them together and 7~10 boats banging rubrails where any given boat could win and any given boat can spin......

[Sean Stinson]

I voted for the Mix but Really would´ve like to have True offshore but thenagain close racing is good too.

I am with you my friend but I also think it should be run as 2 seperate races!!!

[phragle]

as far a TV... TV doesnt care about people on the beach, they care about people on the couch. the way races are now...would the avg joe rather watch a few spread out boats motoring along on flat water, or the helicpter coverage of couple boats bashing it out airborne and sideways?

[Pete B]

The bottom line is you need racers, That 1. want competition. 2. can be as graceful in defeat as in victory. 3. feel they have the same chance to win as their competitor's. 4. not pout or take their ball if it doesnt go their way.

Once that is established, the venue need to challenge both machine and occupants,
Open ocean and closed course type racing.

Then the fans need to be able to understand what is going on.

[Ratickle]

The bottom line is you need racers, That 1. want competition. 2. can be as graceful in defeat as in victory. 3. feel they have the same chance to win as their competitor's. 4. not pout or take their ball if it doesnt go their way.

Once that is established, the venue need to challenge both machine and occupants,
Open ocean and closed course type racing.

Then the fans need to be able to understand what is going on.

Well said Pete.

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

Pete is our Senior Field Correspondent

[smokeybandit]

Jim,

I checked out your website. I didn't realize you raced Joker, and beat K&K! Most that don't know the history of offshore don't realize how big an accomplishment that is. Looking back at all the boats you raced, which was the most challenging? Another question. I never raced short course circle races. Is there more skill involved in offshore racing or circle racing?

Robert

[lee austin]

For the fans you could srart by renameing it to inshore racing. you wouldnt run and add for chev. and when the man gets there give him a ford. you dont go to the drags to see open wheels race nor do you go to the Ind 500 to see the drags. its called OFFSRORE! for you land lovers thats not 500 yards off the beach. Lee

[Ratickle]

Jimbo never brags or shows off his accomplishments. Not even when I push him.

If you both make Key West, make sure you take the time to chat. And especially if Martin's around too....

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

Robert I crewed and cared for Joker. Art Lilly and Stoney ran it. Yes I remember well the day in Bay City they beat the boys.. Their old man was ****ed. They had to run the **** out of it to beat them. Plus they used to race 110 miles or so.

To answer your question about circle racing..I will try.. It is so different. The race is most often decided at the moment the first boat initiates turn one. Who has position at that moment.

When you try to explain how different it is to people that haven't experienced it. I always am reminded of the same thing. Try to explain to your kids these days that phones used to be tethered to the wall with wires. What is the look in their eyes? They can't even comprehend.

Factory2 was the most challenging. We used to race 80 miles an courses with 10 plus mile laps. I started racing just after the course started getting so short. I crewed and rigged boats for 10 years before that. Those days the races were always 100 miles or more. Some classes as much as 150 miles.

Everything now is a "drivers course" It used to be the throttle man was more important.
It used to be an endurance race .They are all sprint races now by comparison.

[1waterboy1]

theres not enough boats on the course to make a beach front race exciting. If you send them offshore, the fans will get bored after a drink or 2 and forget there is a race goin on. The more time that lapses without some kind of close racing, the more fans become disinterested. Just my perspective

I agree with you Bruce.Even with the short courses of today,there is way too much down time because there just arent enough boats.The two race format is not good either...10-20 boats on a four mile course is boring for the fans.I remember having 60-80 boats in 8 or 9 classes all on the course at the same time.The courses were longer;but not too long, and so was the mileage that each class ran.I found that format to be more exciting both as a racer and a fan.These races were definately not won at the first turn,and just finishing all of your laps was an accomplishment and usually resulted in a good finish.Longer races in ocean conditions also leveled the playing field;as top spped more often than not was not the real key to winning a race.Many boats parading out the inlet and the mass starts;sometimes multiple classes in the same start, were a real rush for the racers and the fans too.And with so many boats out on the course at once,there was little down time;and most of the fans stayed for the entire race which usually lasted two hours or so.Something to think about.

[DAREDEVIL]

Robert I crewed and cared for Joker. Art Lilly and Stoney ran it. Yes I remember well the day in Bay City they beat the boys.. Their old man was ****ed. They had to run the **** out of it to beat them. Plus they used to race 110 miles or so.

To answer your question about circle racing..I will try.. It is so different. The race is most often decided at the moment the first boat initiates turn one. Who has position at that moment.

When you try to explain how different it is to people that haven't experienced it. I always am reminded of the same thing. Try to explain to your kids these days that phones used to be tethered to the wall with wires. What is the look in their eyes? They can't even comprehend.

Factory2 was the most challenging. We used to race 80 miles an courses with 10 plus mile laps. I started racing just after the course started getting so short. I crewed and rigged boats for 10 years before that. Those days the races were always 100 miles or more. Some classes as much as 150 miles.

Everything now is a "drivers course" It used to be the throttle man was more important.
It used to be an endurance race .They are all sprint races now by comparison.

Morning,,,,well said Jim.

The thing is ,,i think the fans changed too.
Even tough some of them don't understand whats going on ,,they whant to see it.
Thats why i think the real long coarses are OUT !!!!
Would i like to do them,,,yes,,,i think every racer would. But its what the sponsor and fans whant.
Back then it was a racers venue and who had the biggest cohonas,,,now its what it is.
Smokey, u should jump in a boat and try it,,then u would see if it still is a kick or not.
To me ,,,i like it ,,because its better then running around out there with no rules and so on,,it still gives u a kick and some parts even on the short coarses are tricky and get dangerous,,,so a race is a race.
Follow the rules and have fun.
Just my 2 cents

[Dunbar 104]

Yeah I have become bored with the short courses. Every race is won in the first corner.

I do like what P1 does short close to shore race on Saturday, and longer course on Sunday.

As far a Fans. The ones that pay attention like the dry pits as much as anything, race day is really just a reason to go out and drink.

I am to a point where I would rather race 2 days, Saturday and Sunday 4 times a year vs 10 times a year on a short course that is won in the first corner. I am not going to travel 14 hours anymore for a 35 minute boat ride.

[Ratickle]

Goofy thought. What if there were boats used as wave makers on the inland and short courses? Like at LOTO last week. A couple of 50 footers at each end doing power donuts. Would that make it closer to a race for the entire time?

[smokeybandit]

Could you enter an Unlimited Hydro in an offshore race in the turbine class? Would the rules prohibit this? Looking at the conditions of these races, it seems that a hydro would be able to get around these courses. Is there a rule that says you must have 2 people minimum in a boat? I wonder how these boats would compete against each other.

[smokeybandit]

Goofy thought. What if there were boats used as wave makers on the inland and short courses? Like at LOTO last week. A couple of 50 footers at each end doing power donuts. Would that make it closer to a race for the entire time?

No. Very different than open ocean conditions. That's more like surface chop than waves. Similar to the Barnegat Bay races versus the Benihana. When it's choppy the t-man doesn't really get a rhythm going. In my opinion there is no greater talent in racing tha a t-man who's got his ryhthm going in decent size ocean swells. It's a skill I don't have. But I can't dance either. I can drive, I can navigate, but I'm mediocre at best when it comes to throttles. Offshore racing is a t-mans game.

[Ratickle]

No. Very different than open ocean conditions. That's more like surface chop than waves. Similar to the Barnegat Bay races versus the Benihana. When it's choppy the t-man doesn't really get a rhythm going. In my opinion there is no greater talent in racing tha a t-man who's got his ryhthm going in decent size ocean swells. It's a skill I don't have. But I can't dance either. I can drive, I can navigate, but I'm mediocre at best when it comes to throttles. Offshore racing is a t-mans game.

I wasn't talking about duplicating offshore conditions. I was talking about making it so the first boat to the first corner wasn't the winner unless they broke.

[DAREDEVIL]

Could you enter an Unlimited Hydro in an offshore race in the turbine class? Would the rules prohibit this? Looking at the conditions of these races, it seems that a hydro would be able to get around these courses. Is there a rule that says you must have 2 people minimum in a boat? I wonder how these boats would compete against each other.

I can only tell u ,don't be fooled. In Panama City last year we had 5-6 footers,
in Miami or lauderdale always washing mashine with 3-5's, KW on the outside leg also pretty rough most of the time, even Sarasota was rough before.

Do i care ,,no,,but don't be fooled . As u should know ,,the closer to the beach the higher the roller ?? think about it.:USA:

YES , read the rule book on the website.

2 people min. and there is a length rule aswell.

[Pete B]

Just my thoughts but to start with, each site wants to get the most bang for thier buck.
Racers I would think the same goes for them, and racing both Saturday and Sunday only makes sense. I have watched endless programs state "Testing from 11 am to 5 Pm Saturday
in their program only to have not stellar conditions and only a couple of boats test.
IMO many first time fans go Saturday and are left dissapointed at the progress or excitement of the day. And dont return Sunday due to this. To go to a race Mid summer and be outside in the hot sun, sweating your A$$ off to see one or two boats run a couple laps is a joke. and a Bad one at that.

[Ratickle]

Just my thoughts but to start with, each site wants to get the most bang for thier buck.
Racers I would think the same goes for them, and racing both Saturday and Sunday only makes sense. I have watched endless programs state "Testing from 11 am to 5 Pm Saturday
in their program only to have not stellar conditions and only a couple of boats test.
IMO many first time fans go Saturday and are left dissapointed at the progress or excitement of the day. And dont return Sunday due to this. To go to a race Mid summer and be outside in the hot sun, sweating your A$$ off to see one or two boats run a couple laps is a joke. and a Bad one at that.

Maybe Sunday lanes should be setup by time trials on Saturday?

[DAREDEVIL]

Just my thoughts but to start with, each site wants to get the most bang for thier buck.
Racers I would think the same goes for them, and racing both Saturday and Sunday only makes sense. I have watched endless programs state "Testing from 11 am to 5 Pm Saturday
in their program only to have not stellar conditions and only a couple of boats test.
IMO many first time fans go Saturday and are left dissapointed at the progress or excitement of the day. And dont return Sunday due to this. To go to a race Mid summer and be outside in the hot sun, sweating your A$$ off to see one or two boats run a couple laps is a joke. and a Bad one at that.

Thats why its called testing not race ! So the fans should hang out at the party's and dry pits on saturdays and go to the beach on RAceday(sunday)
I rather break in a race then on a test.
+ testing or racing on saturday costs money ,,,racefuel is not cheap.
Just my tought.
Alot of people don't understand ,,there is nothing realy in for us racers,,no return,,just fun and braggin rights.
Unless you have teams like ,,,Geico,or other big sponsors.
MOST OF THE TEAMS HAVE NON or just small ones that help with fees.
WE PAY TO RACE, that is the major problem.
If we would get payed it would be more boats,,more teams,,more fun and less break downs.
But it doesen't work that way.

[DAREDEVIL]

Maybe Sunday lanes should be setup by time trials on Saturday?

Like i said,,it costs money,,,safety,paceboats,and on and on...........who will pay for that.
The fans don't pay to watch (exsept in KW) so how would u do it ,,,and the bang for what buck,,,,,our buck ????

Think about it.

[WHEELMAN]

Anyway.. I get frustrated by all the deck to deck fan friendly hype. Is it a race or a show? Petes perspective is as an observer. I am looking to compete. It may not be deck to deck and still be a race. On a longer course a boat length or two lead can change from leg to leg.
The race is not decided by the position your in at the first turn.

I agree 100%. This is a motorsport NOT a show. If it was a show then the racers should be getting paid to race. Racers put there life on the line everytime they get into the cockpit. Fans do not dictate if a race or will not go on. We need to build a foundation first starting with the racers and the rest will fall into place. In true offshore racing teams don't always run wide open throttle, they keep pace with the leaders, they would hold the equipment together. Maybe actually more teams would finish not just run wide open. IMO

[Pete B]

Wheelman I understand your point, but while the fans dont make the rules without them just call it a poker run!

And Daredevil, during testing there should be a helo in the air for safety divers to deploy in the event of a incident, if they are not you are being short changed. also no one said racing was cheap! no matter the vehicle, it isnt cheap.

When you start looking at other forms of racing, what is thier key to success?? Sponsors??, gated addmission??
My opinion is professionalism, from the promotor, the media, and so forth.

[DAREDEVIL]

During testing there are 2 saftey boats with divers out there.
in the driversmeeting they tell u where they are so u test close to them.

I understand your point,,,but the fans should understand ours too.

[Sean H]

Maybe Sunday lanes should be setup by time trials on Saturday?

Just race both days. Each race is worth half points. Sunday start is inversed from Saturday finish. Teams that have bad luck/broken parts/wrong setup have a chance to make up for some of it. Basically the heat idea, but a day apart instead of 2 hours, except you get points for the half race (like Wednesday/Friday KW), not a combined finish like in heat racing. It works in P1, Class 1, etc...

Test 10-11 am
Race 1 at 1:00
Race 2 at 3:00

All the assests should already be in place. The cranes, medical, patrol, helos are already there for 4 or 5 hours of practice on Saturday. Why not just race both days and limit testing to an hour or two in the morning? Give the fans something to watch both days. Teague will be the only one complaining about not having 6 hours of practice to run around in. :sifone:

[Ratickle]

Just race both days. Each race is worth half points. Sunday start is inversed from Saturday finish. Teams that have bad luck/broken parts/wrong setup have a chance to make up for some of it. Basically the heat idea, but a day apart instead of 2 hours, except you get points for the half race (like Wednesday/Friday KW), not a combined finish like in heat racing. It works in P1, Class 1, etc...

Test 10-11 am
Race 1 at 1:00
Race 2 at 3:00

All the assests should already be in place. The cranes, medical, patrol, helos are already there for 4 or 5 hours of practice on Saturday. Why not just race both days and limit testing to an hour or two in the morning? Give the fans something to watch both days. Teague will be the only one complaining about not having 6 hours of practice to run around in. :sifone:

I don't think Bob complains much if he's in a boat. :sifone:

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

If there were enough boats we could have 2 or 3 two lap qualifier sprints for Sundays Main Event line up

[Pete B]

Scott,
Not sure but the promoters pay to have a race org come to their town, in hopes of bringing income to thier town IE bars, hotels , etc. I use KW for a example, regardless if there is one boat per class the hotels and bars are filled with fans, poker runners and cruise ships on off days. if the town did not benefit from this they WOULD NOT DO IT.
If the races did not occur the fans would not be there to spend their money.

I realize it costs money to race, but if you are in over your head in debt, maybe you should not race until you can afford do such. OPA seems to have a good solution to the problem for the P-class type boats such as yours. however they are not in your back yard. So is it cheaper to race in you back yard and pay to race , or cheaper to race for free and pay to get there??

[smokeybandit]

I like the old NPBA model that Billy Frenz had. I think we had 7 or 8 races a season, none more than 3 or 4 hours drive. Classes were similar to APBA if not exact. Races were usually 75-100 miles and we always had a ton of boats show up. They were usually on weekends when APBA was not racing, so those of us that raced both circuits could make most of the races. I know that Michigan had something very similar. There is nothing wrong with local racing. It was always a blast, and the competition was fierce.

[DAREDEVIL]

Scott,
Not sure but the promoters pay to have a race org come to their town, in hopes of bringing income to thier town IE bars, hotels , etc. I use KW for a example, regardless if there is one boat per class the hotels and bars are filled with fans, poker runners and cruise ships on off days. if the town did not benefit from this they WOULD NOT DO IT.
If the races did not occur the fans would not be there to spend their money.

I realize it costs money to race, but if you are in over your head in debt, maybe you should not race until you can afford do such. OPA seems to have a good solution to the problem for the P-class type boats such as yours. however they are not in your back yard. So is it cheaper to race in you back yard and pay to race , or cheaper to race for free and pay to get there??

I thik its cheaper to pay and race here. But its not really what i ment.
If like u said,,it would not be for the fans (beach few racing) the city's would not get money in.
Sofar they all thanked us fro booming up the $ in they'r town,,no matter where it was.
I do it because i love it .

[Ratickle]

I like the old NPBA model that Billy Frenz had. I think we had 7 or 8 races a season, none more than 3 or 4 hours drive. Classes were similar to APBA if not exact. Races were usually 75-100 miles and we always had a ton of boats show up. They were usually on weekends when APBA was not racing, so those of us that raced both circuits could make most of the races. I know that Michigan had something very similar. There is nothing wrong with local racing. It was always a blast, and the competition was fierce.

That's similar to OPA except OPA used a 12 hour drive model for their circle of races.

[Sean Stinson]

So at this point it looks as if a mixed course would be the favorite of the majority vote!! So why couldn't a course like the old key west course be used?????

[Sean Stinson]

The course for mixed laps was as follows,
Super, Open, and modifies was 1 long 2 short
Pro Stock 1 long 1 short
Pretty much the rest of the classes were all short laps

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

Sean, the short lap is 28 and the long is 41 miles.

That would be something. It went around Sand Key which marks the edge of the reef.

I suspect nobody wants any part of that.

The following year it was about 20 %. shorter

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

It is 10 miles to turn one.

Even the storm leg to the short turn would be extremely long by todays standards. That would be a great course similar to what APBA ran in '01.

That is what we should be racing.

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

43173

If you look closely in the harbor you can see the approximate present day course.

[MikeyFIN]

It is 10 miles to turn one.

Even the storm leg to the short turn would be extremely long by todays standards. That would be a great course similar to what APBA ran in '01.

That is what we should be racing.

At least at the Worlds as the Foreigners are used to that.

[1waterboy1]

So at this point it looks as if a mixed course would be the favorite of the majority vote!! So why couldn't a course like the old key west course be used?????

Great course....we should get back to that.

[Sean H]

I suspect nobody wants any part of that.


I know a crazy litte short 'guy' from Trinidad that would do it.... heck, he shipped his boat within throwin' distance of South America to do it... :sifone:

[Wahoo 214]

I think the mixed course would be awesome but for many of our current site it wouldn't work because of course control and Coast Guard permitting. In Harrison, St Clair, Patchogue, NY city, Cambridge, LOTO, and Cumberland there are too many pleasure boaters to have to control. So we would need new sites or hundreds of new patrol volunteers. You also need more helios and medical staff which adds to the event cost.

[phragle]

You also need more medical staff which adds to the event cost.


I'm cheap and easy :sifone: (I didn't just say that out loud did i?)

[DAREDEVIL]

I know a crazy litte short 'guy' from Trinidad that would do it.... heck, he shipped his boat within throwin' distance of South America to do it... :sifone:

Lets hope the short guy gets it ready for KW,,,any news on that ??

How is it coming Sean ?????

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

Great course....we should get back to that.

Yep, get a first aid kit, sea anchor, life raft and epirb like the old days and go at it.

[DAREDEVIL]

Ok,,,i have to buy a troling motor now !! LOL:sifone:

[DAREDEVIL]

Who has the current race corse from KW on a chart ???

[Phantom1]

I think the course should be set based upon the spectator/community layout. Every site is different....

For a scenario with a chance for a big gate income, run it out and straight back in toward the spectator area. (St Pete 1999)

For a scenario of huge community support, run along the beach. This allows the racers to secure lodging sponsorship - we always had good luck with hotels along the race course. (Daytona 2001 - 4 rms. x 4 nts. x $225 = $3,600 savings)

For the teams that don't participate in every race, make them run a "figure 8" course for the worlds......:driving:

[Sean H]

Lets hope the short guy gets it ready for KW,,,any news on that ??

How is it coming Sean ?????

It's ready, should be stateside in a few weeks.

[DAREDEVIL]

It's ready, should be stateside in a few weeks.

Cool, good to hear.Hopefully its ok now.

[DAREDEVIL]

For the teams that don't participate in every race, make them run a "figure 8" course for the worlds......:driving:[/QUOTE]

:rofl::USA:

[Wahoo 214]

I'm cheap and easy :sifone: (I didn't just say that out loud did i?)

Yes you are Rob, and that's why we love you and Bruce.

[smokeybandit]

I'm trying to figure out all of this breakout stuff. Shouldn't a boat with legal equipment be allowed to go as fast as it can? If you go to a longer offshore course, there is no need for any of this. Open water and longer courses are the great equalizers.

[Ratickle]

I'm trying to figure out all of this breakout stuff. Shouldn't a boat with legal equipment be allowed to go as fast as it can? If you go to a longer offshore course, there is no need for any of this. Open water and longer courses are the great equalizers.

GPS racing is a good thing currently. What it allows, is someone to race a pleasure boat against others where the boats are no way close to identical.

You could have a twin outboard cat run against a twin large bigblock Vee against a single smaller bigblock Vee etc. The equalizer, none of you can go over 85 mph max.

It then comes down to driver, throttleman, setup, consistency, etc.

[Sean Stinson]

I'm trying to figure out all of this breakout stuff. Shouldn't a boat with legal equipment be allowed to go as fast as it can? If you go to a longer offshore course, there is no need for any of this. Open water and longer courses are the great equalizers.

They are very much so.....the mixed course option seems to be the popular one so maybe we can take that and build that into an entity!!!!

[Sean Stinson]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhHWX1Ye-TQ&NR=1

This is some decent footage!!!

[Sean Stinson]

A bit more!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3gNvtCQ-TQ&feature=channel

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

It then comes down to driver, throttleman, setup, consistency, etc.

And of course the stop watch.

[smokeybandit]

P1 videos are awesome. How soon after a race is finished do they put out the video highlights? I know Pete is trying to do something like that next year. Get the damn video clips on youtube a few days after the race and you will see a lot more interest. That 2008 video has over 12,000 views.

[Ratickle]

And of course the stop watch.

That's the throttlemans job.......:sifone:

[smokeybandit]

Jim,

How are you feeling? If you are sore, try frozen peas. I sat on a bag for a month after my vasectomy. Amazingly I couldn't get my wife to cook them and serve them after that. I wonder why.

Robert

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

I am good. Thanks. Did the frozen blue berries the other day.

[MikeyFIN]

Blue Berries Fresh makes wonders.... my grandpa kept his cancer away for way longer than expected because of them.

[smokeybandit]

This is offshore racing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GV48jjdA60Q

[Ratickle]

Wish we could have heard the engines......

That's some rough stuff...

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

Wish we could have heard the engines......

.

Ring ding dig ding, RRRRing ding ding ding RRRRRRRRRRup,,,,,,, ring ding ding.

[Ratickle]

Ring ding dig ding, RRRRing ding ding ding RRRRRRRRRRup,,,,,,, ring ding ding.

Just take your drugs??????:rofl:

[Sean Stinson]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqtDcnSUk74

here's a throttleman at work in big water!!!!

[Sean Stinson]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdzJDnEx5AI

And more offshore racing

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqtDcnSUk74

here's a throttleman at work in big water!!!!

Classic

[DAREDEVIL]

Ring ding dig ding, RRRRing ding ding ding RRRRRRRRRRup,,,,,,, ring ding ding.

Damn,,,what ever it is they gave u ,,,can i have some ?????LOL:sifone:

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

Isn't that what screaming rice sounds like?

[DAREDEVIL]

Isn't that what screaming rice sounds like?

HAHAHAHAAH:rofl:

I gues,,,i don't hear them ,,,plus i don't like them.

[DAREDEVIL]

This is offshore racing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GV48jjdA60Q

Nice VIDEO,,,,but a good V hull would of done it a little faster.LOL:sifone:

[phragle]

I am good. Thanks. Did the frozen blue berries the other day.


Your freezing your blue berries????????????? burrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!! That spells Shrivel with a capital S!

[Ratickle]

Your freezing your blue berries????????????? burrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!! That spells Shrivel with a capital S!

No, he's freezing his berries blue.......:ack2:

[Sean Stinson]

He's probably trying to pull his blueberries back out of his chest!!!!!

[Sean Stinson]

This is true offshore conditions I think that this water would even out the playing field between the cats and vees......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttN2stWdoeg

[smokeybandit]

Now I know I am totally disturbed, because that looks like a blast.

[Ratickle]

It's just a lake......:sifone:

[Sean Stinson]

It's just a lake......:sifone:

Tell that to Popeyes when they sank their boat there!!!!!

[Sean Stinson]

I used to live for those days in the Pacific with any of the 41's I owned or was involved with!!!!!

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

Now I know I am totally disturbed, because that looks like a blast.

You are not alone... We used to look forward to NE winds in the bay to go out and play.