View Full Version : coil question
I am making the switch to MSD since Crane is out of order for the time being.
One thing I have noticed is that several high end engine builders out there who also use MSD seem to stay with the "old fashioned" oil filled coils (BLASTER 2).
They are about 1/3rd the cost of the the dry cell (HVC) coils. I am wondering if anyone knows if there is an advantage to one or the other or is there no difference thus, stick with what you know?
I called the MSD tech line and the person on the other end essentially wanted to convey that the dry cell is better because it is more expensive. period. :confused:
The oil filled has 45,000 volts vs 42,000 for the HVC BTW.
Chris
10-05-2009, 04:31 PM
The buzz I've heard is that the dry one's are more reliable. I don't go through too many coils so I can't say they're chasing a dire need with the product.
The Blaster has worked fine for me for many years.
Geronimo36
10-05-2009, 05:10 PM
The Blaster has worked fine for me for many years.
Same here!
As far as the new style coil goes; I saw one fail on my buddies Velocity two years ago so I'm not completely sold on them.... The whole system was brand new, even had Teague's fancy shmacy bracket to told it all in place, and between a carb/fuel problem and the coil it drove us crazy because they were producing similar symptoms! :willy_nilly::willy_nilly:
I have the blasters on the Apache and never had one fail since 2005 but I do keep a spare coil/box on the boat just in case. Had a box go bad once....
I had a failure of a Crane coil (dry cell design) and it was a PITA to diagnose, so I was wondering here.
MSD also has a "high Vibration" model of the blaster 2.
"For off-road, marine, racing, or other extreme environments, MSD Blaster High Vibration ignition coils are the best choice. Their sturdy metal housing is potted with a premium-grade epoxy to completely encase the coils' primary and secondary windings. This protects the coils from high and low frequency vibrations. Alkyd material is used to form the spark tower because of its high dielectric characteristics. Alkyd will not carbon track when high voltage is passed across its surface. For your convenience, a standard canister-type coil mount can be used, and the coils can be mounted in any position."
Geronimo36
10-05-2009, 10:10 PM
I had a failure of a Crane coil (dry cell design) and it was a PITA to diagnose, so I was wondering here.
MSD also has a "high Vibration" model of the blaster 2.
I run the high vib. coils and have a spare just in case.
Diagnosing the coil was a PITA and combined with the carb problem it made it all worse. I knew the carb was f'd up so I fixed that problem... Some how the 'engine builder' forgot to tighten the jets, a piece of metal in the primary circuit and a faulty fuel rail... then test run a few times, still breaking up at high rpm and seemed to be fouling at long idle...replace wires and tested all leads for continuity and shorts, diconnected tachometer etc......tore carb down twice to triple check my work when I said to Billy the owner; 'Theres not much left so just throw a new coil on'.
It was a last resort and whalla presto!
For me the faulty coil acted just like fuel starvation. Only when under load it acted just like it ran out of fuel. Plugs looked good, fuel pressure good. Checked for spark on every plug wire and the coil wire (but without load) at several different rpms then I accidentally put my hand on the coil and noticed how hot it was, swapped it out and problem solved.:ack2:
That vibration coil is 45 bucks the HVC is 120. I suppose a guy could afford a spare? :sifone:
.
Ratickle
10-06-2009, 07:15 AM
I run the high vibrations. Haven't ever had a failure, but sounds like a spare may be a good idea.....
Trim'd Up
10-06-2009, 10:31 AM
I run the High vibration coils pictured above too. No issues so far and I have had them on 2 different boats, and 3 engines.
Are you guys using the MSD 6 ignitions too?
.
Trim'd Up
10-07-2009, 11:22 AM
Are you guys using the MSD 6 ignitions too?
.
Not me, just a Thunderbolt IV on all three engines.
Ratickle
10-07-2009, 11:27 AM
Are you guys using the MSD 6 ignitions too?
.
I have MSD on three engines and Merc on two engines. No issues other than a master box failure on an MSD ignition on the one boat.
Geronimo36
10-07-2009, 11:31 AM
6M with softouch and MSD dist for me.
Chris
10-07-2009, 12:02 PM
You can alleviate many coil problems by moving it off of the engine.
Trim'd Up
10-07-2009, 01:18 PM
You can alleviate many coil problems by moving it off of the engine.
Maybe that's why I never have any coil problems. I usually mount my coils on the transom.
You can alleviate many coil problems by moving it off of the engine.
I moved my ignitions off the engines years ago and it was great until I fried them with the trickle charger (yes I have the capacitor filters in line). I should have disconnected them. That was a 900 dollar lesson. :blush5:
Moving the coils off would make for some long coil wires which can shock when touched :willy_nilly:
Interesting though, I see a lot of high dollar engines with everything mounted on the engine still.
.
Geronimo36
10-07-2009, 08:07 PM
I've got the boxes off the engines on the half bulheads immediately agacent t the engines and the coils on the engines. having the boxes off the engines seems to really keep the clutter down behind the engines.
did a top gun a long time ago and put them on the transom.
PatriYacht
10-08-2009, 08:15 AM
I use the high vibration coils mounted to the engines. Never had a problem with coils but the ignition boxes seem to quit now and then ...
Ratickle
10-08-2009, 08:24 AM
I use the high vibration coils mounted to the engines. Never had a problem with coils but the ignition boxes seem to quit now and then ...
When you say "quit" Ian, do you mean repairable or replace? I just had one go bad....
Ratickle
10-08-2009, 08:28 AM
I run the coils on the transom and the boxes on plates Hotrod2 made for the Scorpion for mounting. Along with the Haltech Injection controls.
Geronimo36
10-08-2009, 09:04 AM
Not bad Raticle!
I've got my boxes thru-bolted on the half stringers on either side of the engines. The coils are rear-right hand side of the intake manifold (hard to see in the pic).
Ratickle
10-08-2009, 09:22 AM
....rear-right hand side .
:ack2: :ack2: :ack2:...It's a boat...:ack2: :ack2: :ack2:
:sifone:
Mercury also found out that oil filled type coils should be mounted vertical not horizontal.
Geronimo36
10-08-2009, 11:10 AM
:ack2: :ack2: :ack2:...It's a boat...:ack2: :ack2: :ack2:
:sifone:
Since it's a boat, towards the stern on the port side of the intake manifold. :26:
Are you guys using filter capacitors in line on the 12V and ground wires for your ignition boxes? The MSD literature lists it as a noise suppressor but the Crane manual and the MSD tech I got on the phone both said it is to protect against surges and spikes in power.
I did have them on my Crane boxes and my battery charger still cooked them :( so I am not sure how effective they are. Crane included a Mallory unit that has on the label "good for surges of up to 20V".
My charger is the built in unit provided by Cigarette.
.
PatriYacht
10-09-2009, 08:27 AM
When you say "quit" Ian, do you mean repairable or replace? I just had one go bad....
I've always just replaced them. Don't know if MSD fixes them.
In all the Crane ignitions, they want you to place a capacitor in line on the 12V and ground lines to the ignition box. They said to protect angainst spikes and surges.
They supplied a Mallory unit that claimed to protect up to 20V. (I must have exceeded that on the charger:()
MSD, according to their Tech line also suggests the capacitor, but they label it as a Radio noise suppressor. It looks just like the mallory unit but red. Tech told me it is also for spikes and surges but the instructions that come with it don't mention that at all.
I installed it even though I can't hear the radio while running. Does everyone following this thread use these?
MERPerformance
10-10-2009, 07:13 PM
In all the Crane ignitions, they want you to place a capacitor in line on the 12V and ground lines to the ignition box. They said to protect angainst spikes and surges.
They supplied a Mallory unit that claimed to protect up to 20V. (I must have exceeded that on the charger:()
MSD, according to their Tech line also suggests the capacitor, but they label it as a Radio noise suppressor. It looks just like the mallory unit but red. Tech told me it is also for spikes and surges but the instructions that come with it don't mention that at all.
I installed it even though I can't hear the radio while running. Does everyone following this thread use these?
2112, I have never used the capacitor with crane or msd. The only time I did was on the dyno and it failed after some testing sessions.
How do you connect your power source lines? Do you use a toggle or perko switch for the big red heavy gauge power line or direct connect to the positive terminal of the battery?
.
DAREDEVIL
10-11-2009, 10:00 PM
How do you connect your power source lines? Do you use a toggle or perko switch for the big red heavy gauge power line or direct connect to the positive terminal of the battery?
.
PERKO batt switch is the way to go.
Batt > Perko > Starter !!!!
PERKO batt switch is the way to go.
Batt > Perko > Starter !!!!
I think you misunderstood my less that clear question. I am just talking about the power source lines on the ignition box itself.
.
DAREDEVIL
10-12-2009, 12:02 AM
I think you misunderstood my less that clear question. I am just talking about the power source lines on the ignition box itself.
.
I take mine from the starter positive. ..... so basicly behind the Perko, in case something goes wrong u can always shut the Batt OFF !
I take mine from the starter positive. ..... so basicly behind the Perko, in case something goes wrong u can always shut the Batt OFF !
Ahh. Got it. That makes sense, good suggestion.:USA:
.
Geronimo36
10-12-2009, 08:07 PM
I hook mine to the powered side of the slave solenoid.
Well, I run to the battery terminal like the friggin instructions told me to do but I need a cut off switch so everything is off when it is on the trickle charger.
.
Wobble
10-12-2009, 09:45 PM
In all the Crane ignitions, they want you to place a capacitor in line on the 12V and ground lines to the ignition box. They said to protect angainst spikes and surges.
They supplied a Mallory unit that claimed to protect up to 20V. (I must have exceeded that on the charger:()
MSD, according to their Tech line also suggests the capacitor, but they label it as a Radio noise suppressor. It looks just like the mallory unit but red. Tech told me it is also for spikes and surges but the instructions that come with it don't mention that at all.
I installed it even though I can't hear the radio while running. Does everyone following this thread use these?
I have not had any msd issues in the ten years since I started using this capacitor. (apart from a rusty billet distributer)
Prior to that I lost two boxes in one season due to a failing starter that was spiking the ignition
Wobble
10-12-2009, 09:49 PM
Well, I run to the battery terminal like the friggin instructions told me to do but I need a cut off switch so everything is off when it is on the trickle charger.
.
It shouldnt matter. the ignition wire (purple) turns on a relay in the msd box. As long as that is off the msd box does not draw
Geronimo36
10-13-2009, 11:30 AM
Well, I run to the battery terminal like the friggin instructions told me to do but I need a cut off switch so everything is off when it is on the trickle charger.
.
If you want piece of mind you can always run the wire to the back of the battery switch so it's always turned off when you turn the switch off. Other than automatic bildge pumps, I don't recommend having power to anything when the switch is off. Even though the box doesn't draw unless the ignition is on, I like knowing all the power is cut.
I ran mine to the powered side of the slave solenoid because it's the closest connection and easiest to get to! I've seen a lot of guys put the terminal on the starter and have box problems due to corrosion and also power surges when cranking. My theory of putting it on the slave solenoid was so there was some distance from the cable on the starter and the box connection.
On my setup the slave solenoid is on the rear of the cylinderhead, along with the harness connector and the main ground so everything is in one place and I don't miss anything when I'm hooking stuff up or taking stuff off!:driving:
I don't run the filter either but I think I'm going to give it a try and see if it fixes the radio interference... I guess I'll have to report back next year on that!
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions Inc. All rights reserved.