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MikeyFIN
09-05-2009, 06:35 AM
Before we screw up the Apache threads with offtopic I thought this would be a proper topic and start of a thread here instead.

Fact is F40 was never intended to be a racecar per factory as the Rally B group got axed (because of Henri Toivonen and Italo-American Sergio Crestos death at Corsica) and sportscars was on the demise in road racing in general.
It was "just" a tribute to Enzo of his 40 yrs in the car biz and a opposite contender to Porsches 959 (http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=7&article_id=8196) Hitech wonder.
It was not until the mid 90īs that privateers started asking about Factory support and firstly the Factory turned their backs because that car is a tube frame car wrapped in carbon sheets.

IMO If Ferrari wouldīve gone the racecar route from day one it woulda been a Carbon monocoque. Just like (earlier) Alfa Romeo with their 33 TT12 made instead of a tube chassis a cast magnesium monocoque (safe???) provided by Campagnolo.

F40 was considered to be a Rally car, what a bastard idea in itself as they are 2wdīs and have no chance against the Porsche 959, Audi S1 or Lancia S4īs.
Even in LeMans the Porsche 959 put F40 on the backburner, still I like the F40 more than a 959 and have witnessed it on a racetrack but mustered only times a homemade C3 smallblock Vette could do... although the CSBin
question RPMīs more than the F40 and sports a Guldstrand upgrade plus a T-56 and some minor modīs only (*minor in my eyes...).
But seeing it take of in full force on the Street was astonishing although Iīve been personally even in faster 4 door Malibus...or ElCaminos.

So the question of Ferrari asking Michelotto didnīt come from the request of Ferrari but the owners of F40īs who wanted to race and be competitive and especially after the production of F40 had ended.
A F40 had no chance against an McLaren. The 1995 LeMans just proves it when the F40 program was in full force and led by late Olofsson
and Della Noce.
One JJ Lehto (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JJ_Lehto) made the fastest laps of the race at night...and F40 drivers faced a brick wall.

Some race results from the F40 years.
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Downs/1403/90s.htm
And a F40 registry with race info
http://www.qv500.com/ferrarif40p7.php

Therefore IMO the F40 is one of the perfect 80īs icons...theyīve had more show than go.

MikeyFIN

Dude! Sweet!
09-06-2009, 02:14 AM
Did the C3 Vette happen to have Bob Riley's name stamped on the chassis and John Paul's name over the door?!

I don't know much about the F40s but to be slower than a lightly modified C3 Ferrari must have really dropped to ball on the cars balance and geometry... Because you're average C3 is diabolical.

A guy I grew up with held the short course record at Watkins Glen in an A production Vette. He said it was the second worst handling race car he'd ever driven.

MikeyFIN
09-06-2009, 02:58 AM
No names and hereīs a pick of it....
Although this is not how it looks like anymore, a bulge in the hood and lowered some and different set of wheels...
http://www.corvettefinland.com/ccof/jutut/50v/images/pic08.jpg

And yes a C2/C3 is the second worst car Iīve driven too and Iīve driven several of them.
Still I like them all from 1965-1972 the 65/66 being the best and as Coupes. A runner up would be a 69-72 Ragtop, all manual of course.

MikeyFIN
09-06-2009, 03:11 AM
And when we got into talking about bad handling cars Iīd think this suits the thread...

The Widowmaker ;

http://www.porsche917.com.ar/ZZeltweg69SiffAhr.jpg

Dude! Sweet!
09-06-2009, 10:57 AM
I'll vote for the De Tomaso Pantera in IMSA trim as the worst handling race car ever.

I love the Vettes as well. Frankly the C3 is actually my favorite. I love the JP3 (Riley IMSA car) and the Greenwood cars. Of course my love of those cars doesn't change the fact that they were play-things compared to the later iterations of the 935.

I'll post pics that I think you'll enjoy when I'm on my office computer next.

Dude! Sweet!
09-08-2009, 12:00 AM
I'll vote for the De Tomaso Pantera in IMSA trim as the worst handling race car ever.

I love the Vettes as well. Frankly the C3 is actually my favorite. I love the JP3 (Riley IMSA car) and the Greenwood cars. Of course my love of those cars doesn't change the fact that they were play-things compared to the later iterations of the 935.

I'll post pics that I think you'll enjoy when I'm on my office computer next.

Not bad for an old lady, huh? :sifone:

Dude! Sweet!
09-08-2009, 12:02 AM
Couple more...

MikeyFIN
09-08-2009, 03:09 PM
Not bad for an old lady, huh? :sifone:

as home built as one can be and therefore genuine american :USA:

Would love to get my hands on some crossram intakes for f.i. in CSB/CBB form...

MikeyFIN
09-08-2009, 03:12 PM
I'll vote for the De Tomaso Pantera in IMSA trim as the worst handling race car ever.

.

Did somebody mess up a good Dallara platform???

Dude! Sweet!
09-08-2009, 03:25 PM
as home built as one can be and therefore genuine american :USA:

Would love to get my hands on some crossram intakes for f.i. in CSB/CBB form...

Yah, we're planning on putting the x-ram on this Camaro...

That Vette is homebuilt, but built in the home of Bob Riley... Former NASA aeronautics engineer and future legend of sports car racing.

He doesn't build them out of his house anymore... ;)

http://www.rileytech.com/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riley_&_Scott

Then again, Tony Cicale built a lot of high end Indy and prototype motors in his home garage! :D

Dude! Sweet!
09-08-2009, 03:31 PM
Did somebody mess up a good Dallara platform???

This would have been around 1974 or so and my recollection is it was a Category I car built by a small race shop in Georgia (US). I don't think the Dallara guys had much to do with it! Then again, I don't think the Dallara guys could have helped it much either! :sifone:

MikeyFIN
09-08-2009, 04:05 PM
This would have been around 1974 or so and my recollection is it was a Category I car built by a small race shop in Georgia (US). I don't think the Dallara guys had much to do with it! Then again, I don't think the Dallara guys could have helped it much either! :sifone:

Well Gianpaolo Dallara himself designed the Pantera chassis and Itīs not that bad...
And Dallaras have been ruling the Formula3īs totally the last 20 years...

Panteras in Grp5 did quite good regarding the funds they had and the Competition they faced in Europe.

MikeyFIN
09-08-2009, 04:06 PM
Yah, we're planning on putting the x-ram on this Camaro...

That Vette is homebuilt, but built in the home of Bob Riley... Former NASA aeronautics engineer and future legend of sports car racing.

He doesn't build them out of his house anymore... ;)

http://www.rileytech.com/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riley_&_Scott

Then again, Tony Cicale built a lot of high end Indy and prototype motors in his home garage! :D


I Do know who Bob Riley is :)

A lot of good racecars are built in small garages at home actually.
A Friend did a Renault Megane for Super Touring all by himself and it even won some...

Dude! Sweet!
09-08-2009, 05:21 PM
I figured you knew! I do know what you do for a "semi" living... Ha ha ha.

It doesn't entirely suprise me that the Panteras did well in europe. I don't know if it was a chassis set up philosophy difference or what, but back then, it seems like cars that worked over there frequently didn't work as well here, and vice versa. I think the Group C to GTP conversions were probably the most obvious example of that. Especially the TWR and Group 44 Jaguars.

Roger just said that the cars were sensationally unbalanced.

Dude! Sweet!
09-08-2009, 05:22 PM
It also suprises me that with all of the people here who are in to high performance marine, very few also appear to be into sports car racing. This thread will likely only go on as long as you and I decided to prattle back and forth about it!

kidapache
09-08-2009, 09:50 PM
my car 900hp

Dude! Sweet!
09-09-2009, 01:15 PM
my car 900hp

Nice ride Paul. V6 turbo car?

Speaking of, this is one of my favorite all time V6 Turbo cars... :sifone:

Pete B
09-12-2009, 11:13 AM
Pics from SCCA racing @ Daytona Motorspeedway
Taken July 2009
http://www.seriousoffshore.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9280

Dude! Sweet!
09-28-2009, 12:28 PM
Nice pics. I haven't been to an SCCA race in years. Probably since I stopped running IT and started running my AIX car with NASA.

Dude! Sweet!
10-16-2009, 12:19 PM
Mikey, here you go... Race Pantera for sale.

http://www.race-cars.com/carsales/other/1255136553/1255136553ss.htm

WeaponX
10-16-2009, 07:05 PM
Nice ride Paul. V6 turbo car?

Speaking of, this is one of my favorite all time V6 Turbo cars... :sifone:

I had a picture of the motor on my wall way back when.:sifone:

MikeyFIN
11-26-2009, 04:39 PM
my car 900hp


Ahhhh ...Buicks... I have a 65 Gransport Convert as a project and my friend has a 70 GS455 STG1 ragtop. Last fall I did burn some rubber with it..

MikeyFIN
11-26-2009, 04:48 PM
Mikey, here you go... Race Pantera for sale.

http://www.race-cars.com/carsales/other/1255136553/1255136553ss.htm

too far gone and Me likey a Pantera as a licensed car more.
If for some reason I get the urge to get a racecar again (and I got a 82 Z/28 and And Alfa Romeo Bertone GTV2000 racecars in pieces) it would be probably a FIA GT2 Vi per or a C6 Vette. Would
I personally race them...unlikely as I know a lot of talent around.
one of my closxest firends back in the tin top days pushed One Felipe Massa for being too slow out of the way and in the ditch...on the next race all he could see behind him was 4 red Alfa Romeos taking a shot at him...

MikeyFIN
11-26-2009, 05:00 PM
It also suprises me that with all of the people here who are in to high performance marine, very few also appear to be into sports car racing. This thread will likely only go on as long as you and I decided to prattle back and forth about it!

We have a few...

lets see...
Charlie McCarthy and son...IMSA
Nunezes did Drag Racing...
Pat Weissman has been involved in every form of motorsport probably from the GT40 project in the 60īs and before to this day.
Kiekhaefers did Nascar in the 50īs.
Didier Pironi did a few years in Formula1 for Ferrari.
Vincenzo Balestrieri has a motorsport background....
Flying Finn Timo Mäkinen Monte Carlo Rally winner did Round the Britains and Roslagsloppet.
WRC Ace Juha Kankkunen did the Stockholm-Helsinki Record with a 32 Skater.
In fact a Lot of Europeans do mix and some Americans too.
Bobby Oetringer Races a Big block Vette in Vintage nowadays.

I could go on...

Dude! Sweet!
11-30-2009, 03:27 PM
I'm under strict orders not to divulge anything I've seen over at Wiesmann's ( :sifone: ), but man I've met few people who have racing as thick in their blood as the Weismanns do. The pic of his mom, Enzo Ferarri and Phil Hill is pretty awesome as is all the McLaren F1 (Senna era) stuff. Pat's dad (and maybe grandfather?!) worked on Indy cars from the dawn of time as well.

I was talking more about site members participating in the race discussion and showing interst than the cross over between offshore and sports cars (Forest Barber is another example of someone who went from boats to cars).

pullmytrigger
11-30-2009, 04:50 PM
hey I posted pics of my track day xperience with my IROC and nobody said boo.....maybe you were pizzed at my Soccer comment.....or was that you? haha

Dude! Sweet!
11-30-2009, 05:40 PM
hey I posted pics of my track day xperience with my IROC and nobody said boo.....maybe you were pizzed at my Soccer comment.....or was that you? haha

Must have missed it. Put 'em up here.

****ed at soccer... I thought you and I were at a mutual respect and disinterest on the soccer/rugby thing? I think Cuda was the one who you were having a chap with.

Anchored
11-30-2009, 07:16 PM
Here are a few from Road America in September.

Jeff

Dude! Sweet!
11-30-2009, 08:01 PM
Is that Morgan Tom Holfelder's car (or was)?

Dude! Sweet!
11-30-2009, 08:01 PM
Is that Morgan Tom Holfelder's car (or was)?

Shoot, I guess I answered my own question. I think that's the Tiger Racing transporter right next to the car. :sifone:

Biggus
11-30-2009, 08:06 PM
Here's my Brother's 1971 Ensign-Lotus Formula 3
car. 900 pounds with a 180hp Lotus Twin cam 1.6L 4cyl engine.

Kurt

Dude! Sweet!
11-30-2009, 11:24 PM
Nice looking little race car. Bernie Ecclestone owned Ensign back then right?

Anchored
12-01-2009, 11:20 AM
Shoot, I guess I answered my own question. I think that's the Tiger Racing transporter right next to the car. :sifone:


That's right!

Dude! Sweet!
12-01-2009, 01:55 PM
That's right!

Tom's a very good friend of one of my closest friends... His race and street car collections are AMAZING. And his charity with respect to spinal resarch is unheralded, but is also a profound effort. His daughter Carol is a trip and his son in law is a serious hot shoe!

MikeyFIN
12-01-2009, 02:09 PM
Here's my Brother's 1971 Ensign-Lotus Formula 3
car. 900 pounds with a 180hp Lotus Twin cam 1.6L 4cyl engine.

Kurt



Thatīs nice.

Although Im used to wrench a Little bit never F3īs and better looking drivers...


http://www.emmakimilainen.fi/app/gallery/gallery

Anchored
12-02-2009, 01:53 PM
Tom's a very good friend of one of my closest friends... His race and street car collections are AMAZING. And his charity with respect to spinal resarch is unheralded, but is also a profound effort. His daughter Carol is a trip and his son in law is a serious hot shoe!

The engine shop my brother works for, rebuilt a Can-am and Indy engine for him.
Let's have a look at more pics.................

Anchored
12-02-2009, 01:56 PM
More.....

MikeyFIN
12-02-2009, 05:19 PM
Lola T70 Mk III.. my favourite....

After Porsche 917... all models.
A friend of mines dad ( and my idol) was the test driver for the Porsche 917 program with Mark Donohue.

Dude! Sweet!
12-03-2009, 06:16 PM
Nice pics. Love the old U2L Can Am cars. I'm going to guess Chevron B29 for the black car. Sort of looks like a Lola 290 - 292. Such trick little cars. That Cossie's a spendy little time bomb though!

Anchored
12-11-2009, 08:58 PM
More!


Coming next....................American V8 thunder!

Jeff

Anchored
12-15-2009, 10:10 PM
Jeff

Anchored
12-15-2009, 10:13 PM
More

pullmytrigger
12-16-2009, 06:47 PM
Nice!....got any more?

Anchored
12-18-2009, 01:03 AM
You betcha!

Jeff

Anchored
12-18-2009, 01:05 AM
Why stop now?

Jeff

MikeyFIN
12-18-2009, 05:11 AM
Any Camaros or Corvettes ;)?

OldSchool
12-18-2009, 07:24 AM
Any Camaros or Corvettes ;)?

Mine, but not a race car:cheers2:

Dude! Sweet!
12-18-2009, 03:24 PM
Love the tube chassis Roush stuff!

MikeyFIN
12-18-2009, 05:46 PM
Mine, but not a race car:cheers2:

Nice, any pics your outing it on a track ?
Always loved to look at those ironbumper C3īs ...but all C2&3īs are somewhat interesting to drive..especially pacing up.
Takes a lot of custom work to get them to handle properly, design wise one of the best in my book.

MikeyFIN
12-18-2009, 05:48 PM
You betcha!

Jeff

Non adjustable sway bars, why while still making them custom?

Dude! Sweet!
12-18-2009, 08:22 PM
Non adjustable sway bars, why while still making them custom?

Because, dem's da rules, ya'll! That's nascar for ya. Might not make sense, but doesn't make sense equally for everyone...

Why do they use manual jacks instead of air jacks and a probe? One less guy to get run over, but then where's the fun in that? How about the 11 gallon dump gas cans to refuel? How about nonadjustable shocks (rebuildable and revalvable, but nonadjustable)? Should I go on? :sifone:

Lofty
12-21-2009, 07:31 PM
Yeah NASACAR rules are a pain in the ass. We ran all our cheater parts for this 25 hour a few weeks back.

Lofty
12-21-2009, 08:01 PM
I know it pizzed off the factory backed, deep pocket Porsche and BMW teams but even after one motor change we still ran all night and finished in the top 10. And when you're running this big Monte Carlo there's nothing like passing a $1mil Porsche at dawn.

We ran a little conspicuously fast the next day when most of the teams where just trying to make it to the 25 hours. Not bad for a push rod motor!

Dude! Sweet!
12-21-2009, 10:07 PM
Way to go Lofty! You guys Team Speedzorb? 4th fastest lap time eh? Nice.

You know Ryan F. from NASA? He's my daughter's godfather. A lot of my buddies run the 25. I'm too lazy to haul my ass all the way up to Willows to mess around with it, besides I'm more of a sprint race guy.. I like to drink beers at night! :sifone:

Anchored
12-22-2009, 01:43 PM
Non adjustable sway bars, why while still making them custom?

The ends are splined so you can preload the sway bar.

Jeff

pullmytrigger
12-22-2009, 08:35 PM
I know it pizzed off the factory backed, deep pocket Porsche and BMW teams but even after one motor change we still ran all night and finished in the top 10. And when you're running this big Monte Carlo there's nothing like passing a $1mil Porsche at dawn.

LOVE it!!!!!......I hate Porsche's and their owners, they think their all that and their not.....what kind of chassis is that? and what are the specs on the motor?